Results 1 to 30 of 33
-
2018-07-17, 04:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
Has anyone tried starting a game where instead of building based on a budget, you build a concept, and leave the balancing to the GM?
E.g. Bruce Lee gets buffed and Thor gets nerfed until they are equal in power.
It was both liberating and disconcerting to build and play.
The system is GURPS, but I'm not sure how much it matters.
-
2018-07-17, 04:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
-
2018-07-17, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
Because if I'm paying for a ruleset, I want something that makes my life easier than pulling stuff out of thin air.
That, and just out of curiosity. Are you talking about RIFTS style balance (where the person playing a literal god can do more than the person playing a hobo, but the hope is that party cohesion and the DM's command of the spotlight can smooth things over), or FATE style balance (where a god-to-hobo power level disparity is still hard to work with, but superman and batman can get along because they both have roughly the same narrative heft).
-
2018-07-17, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
- Location
- Avatar By Astral Seal!
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
That sounds like more work for the GM. To use the systems I'm familiar with, I vastly prefer 5E D&D, since I can just say "Build characters with 27 Point Buy, PHB Standard for HP, and no SCAG. Run UA or homebrew by me before using it, but official material is okay. Starting at level 10," and have a reasonably well-balanced party, whereas in 3.5... Well, if all I did was say "32 Point Buy, HP is max at level one then average rounded up every level thereafter. Only books are Core and Complete. Starting at level 10," I can end up with a Monk who's got decent punches, a martial multiclass that can do 1,500+ damage in one turn, a Cleric who's nearly his match in close combat (and has full casting besides), and a Rogue who's just really good at disarming traps.
I'm not saying it's impossible-but I am saying it's not generally desirable. It's better to have the characters be balanced (by whatever metric of balance you want to use) by the system, rather than forcing more work on the GM.I have a LOT of Homebrew!
Spoiler: Former AvatarsSpoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Linkele
Spoiler: Individual Avatar Pics
-
2018-07-17, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
A game having both Thor and Bruce Lee (or a clearer analogy might be Goku and Bruce Lee) isn't actually the problem. The problem is expecting them to be in the same party at the same time without one feeling overshadowed.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2018-07-17, 05:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
I can't say as I have. I can see it being great, or one of many GM horror stories. Captain Hobo comes to mind.
For me, it might be almost acceptable for my first one-shot in a system, but that's about it. I make things it's what I do. I enjoy making my own mechs in battle tech, my own decks in MtG, and my own characters in RPGs. But I've considered doing it as GM, when the players were unfamiliar with the system. But, as far as I remember, I never have.
-
2018-07-17, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
Practically, this is relatively common in Champions.
While it's not done as explicitly, beyond the point totals it's very common for the GM to put additional constraints on abilities (no attacks above x, no defenses above y, etc.)."Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking)"
-
2018-07-17, 05:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
- Gender
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
Hill Giant Games
I make indie gaming books for you!Spoiler
STaRS: A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system.
Grod's Guide to Greatness, 2e: A big book of player options for 5e.
Grod's Grimoire of the Grotesque: An even bigger book of variant and expanded rules for 5e.
Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.
-
2018-07-17, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
I probably wouldn't really care for it. Never tried it, but I can see two issues with myself. Firstly, I am not so great at mechanics, so a character I build and am intimately familiar with will result in less headache for others as I can prepare notes for that specific character. Trying to familiarize myself with a character seems like a much harder task in many systems.
Secondly, I do try to fulfill a combat role while staying true to my vision of the character. I will carefully select spells and skills based on what I think is appropriate for both. If I write a 10 page backstory I don't really expect the DM to read all of it, but it might influence particular choices. A dialog to facilitate this seems like it would quickly grow into a nightmare, so either I have a character I don't really feel storywise or I've just wrecked the DM's efforts.For all of your completely and utterly honest needs. Zaydos made, Tiefling approved.
-
2018-07-17, 06:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Imagination Land
- Gender
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
This sounds like what happened in the DC fighting game, Injustice, that came out a few years ago. It's a video game where you can pit somebody like Superman against somebody like the Joker, and because of some BS it's actually an even fight. That should never be an even fight.
-
2018-07-17, 07:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2018-07-17, 10:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Gender
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
And in Marvel vs Capcom, Rocket Raccoon can single handedly beat Thor, Phonix Force-possessed Jean Grey and Dormammu... Because the game is supposed to be balanced. Making characters vastly more powerful than others because of their in-universe abilities is a sure fire way to make your fighting game a horrible game.
That said, in Injustice 2, IIRC, they drop the "pills of super strength" thing and simply have a story mode where all fights are between similarly powerful characters.Last edited by Lemmy; 2018-07-17 at 10:07 PM.
Homebrew Stuff:- Lemmy's Custom Weapon Generation System! - (D&D 3.X and PF)
Not all heroes wield scimitars, falchions and longbows! (I'm quite proud of this one ) - Lemmy's Homebrew Cauldron
You can find all my work here.
-
2018-07-17, 10:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
I run GURPS and build most of my players' PCs or at the very least provide templates for them to use because I know the system better than they do.
GURPS superheroes requires a lot of GM work to balance. I solved the problem by using very low point budgets and a non-colour game.
Batman is probably 500 to 1,000 points in GURPS and Superman 2,000 to 4,000 points. You can't really have the 2 concepts as equal in power. Traditionally the way GMs deal with that is make everyone the same number of points or find ways to have both characters shine e.g. Superman punches out alien mecha while Batman ninjas his way through the villain's skyscraper to shut down the McGuffin beacon.
-
2018-07-17, 10:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
Don't most GMs end up doing this sort of intraparty balancing in most campaigns anyway?
eg one PC starts getting ahead on the power curve, so the GM hands out more powerful magic items to the lower power PCs to catch them up. Or gives them a useful contact. Or allows them custom feats to boost their niche area or compensate in some other UP area. That sort of thing.Low Fantasy Gaming RPG - Free PDF at the link: https://lowfantasygaming.com/
$1 Adventure Frameworks - RPG Mini Adventures: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=645444
Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting - https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/12...x-setting-pdf/
GM Toolkits - Traps, Hirelings, Blackpowder, Mass Battle, 5e Hardmode, Olde World Loot http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/p...Fantasy-Gaming
-
2018-07-17, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
-
2018-07-17, 10:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
D&D parties are supposed to be pre-balanced by the nature of the game. Putting aside how well that is achieved, the assumption is there.
Superheroes cover a very wide disparity of powers, the genre is inherently much less balanced. There are various ways of doing that but it's tougher than in D&D.
-
2018-07-17, 11:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
Why would it destroy the concept? One PC built an Edward Elric Alchemist from the anime, and realized he was too weak. So the GM adjusted his point total so he could afford a suit of magic armor available at anytime, along with some boosts to his attack spells. I think this is better than him getting creamed when the first manbearpig terrorist cuts him in half with a minigun. Average party point value is 1000.
The extra burden on the DM is quite a bit, I just got lucky with a DM who's very knowledgeable. Not sure how we are gonna rotate DM duties though.
-
2018-07-18, 12:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2014
- Location
- Los Angeles
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot
Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones
-
2018-07-18, 12:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
Your original example was Bruce Lee and Thor (I'm assuming the Marvel Comics one). Bruce Lee is a top level human martial artist. If you make him as powerful as a god, he wouldn't be human. Equally, if you make Thor as weak as Bruce Lee, he's no longer the god of thunder. And if you try to have them meet in the middle, you wouldn't end up with either a human martial artist or the god of thunder - they'd both have become something completely different than the concept you started with. You can make Thor and Bruce Lee equal in narrative impact, but not in power.
In Smallville what drives the story is not what a character is able to do, but what they care about, and how much they care. The focus is on intercharacter drama, not on combat or any other form of action (which was also true of the TV show). So Lois Lane can have just as much impact on the story as Clark Kent.
Mechanically, it uses a form of the Cortex Plus system, which was designed for this.
-
2018-07-18, 02:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Denmark
- Gender
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
I would say that - in a game that actually works, this is almost always the case ... to some degree. It's almost unavoidable that some players have more skill at building characters, some work harder to grab the spotlight, and so on, and unless the GM works to balance all these things, the game will eventually fall apart.
-
2018-07-18, 06:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
Ah, thank you for reminding me - not all games that "work" have mechanical balance.
For one thing, different players have different levels of player skills. Giving the players with more player skill mechanically inferior characters, while giving less skilled players stronger playing pieces is a tool that can be used to improve game balance.
Further, not all games require balance to be fun! Some people enjoy playing Thor and Bruce Lee in the same party!
-
2018-07-18, 06:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
This sounds like a training wheels session where the GM wanted to get you playing and using the play rules but left character creation for later.
It's what I do, especially for something as crunchy as GURPS
-
2018-07-18, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
I mean, if it's not doing that then you have a different problem I'd say. A game where you can be Bruce Lee or Goku but all you do is play golf for instance could exist, but I wouldn't call it an RPG. You're playing a role, sort of, but that's not really the core engagement that brings you to that game.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2018-07-18, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
-
2018-07-18, 12:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
-
2018-07-18, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
It be weird if we formed Justice league, but all we did was fight HR Problems with our super powers. Actually, that could happen, but it wouldn't be completely without combat. Trying to solve a problem without resorting to violence assumes the confidence to survive the first hit.
PS I disagree with the guy who says a player who builds Thor in a average level supers game shouldn't be nerfed. Not all mechanics are equal strength, and having the GM formalize that directly instead of indirectly removed a lot of forced decision making.
For example, I would never play a monk in 3.5 or a Strength based character in Gurps/WoD etc etc because you use up all your points to be worse at a job as an optimized PC, who has points to spare for utility/fluff.
With a promise from the GM that all characters are equalish, I can build something close to what I want confident that nobody will be overshadowed.
Though I also agree it's more work on the GM. Having a system that's already Balanced is better, but not always possible.
-
2018-07-18, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
-
2018-07-18, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
-
2018-07-18, 01:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
No, there can be other forms of conflict resolution. But the role you're playing should have some bearing on that. It would be like... I dunno, rolling up Conan the Barbarian but having every conflict in the whole game be resolved via tiddlywinks. Maybe as a one-off aside that kind of thing could be acceptable, but more than that and the disconnect becomes too large to bridge.
Yes, exactly. Though given how the Justice League dresses to go to work (all genders), I'm surprised there aren't more HR problems.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2018-07-18, 01:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: TTRPGs Balanced by GM Instead of XP
And the problem with different power levels is thereby solved. You can even do it with just two characters (a very common trope in the comics) and have, for example, Green Lantern keep Sinestro occupied, while Green Arrow sneaks in, takes out Sinestro's minions, and disables Sinestro's Macguffin of Ultimate Doom. They're both doing something cool and important, so the power disparity doesn't matter.