Reading Heir to the Empire

[Sapphire Guard]

I'm reading a fair few newcanon books, mostly to try make sense of the ST. Mixed results.

[Velaryon]

Dammit, I managed to go an entire decade without remembering the Dark Nest trilogy existed, and now it's all coming back. Thanks a lot.

Sorry. Nobody deserves to be reminded of that garbage. Truth be told I sometimes forget about it as well, until the subject of Troy Denning and why he is awful comes up.

For all that people give the EU crap for being of highly variable quality, there's a pretty distinct divide between the "classic" material and all the setting-nuking stuff of NJO and later; the classic stuff tends to be mediocre at worst, while the new stuff tends to be mediocre at best. Yes, there's some weird and out-of-character-for-Star-Wars stuff before that (The Crystal Star, much of the Lando Calrissian trilogy, the Mortis arc that turned the mythical Celestials into a squabbling family and tied into the Abeloth dreck ), but it's almost completely isolated from the wider EU so it's not too terrible.

I feel like Bantam-era EU was all over the place in terms of quality. Zahn and Stackpole were usually excellent, Kevin J. Anderson's books were a mixed bag with a handful of good ideas dragged down by the monumentally stupid stuff, and then there's the dreary, boring stuff like The Crystal Star, Planet of Twilight, The New Rebellion, etc. Personally I think Dark Empire is among the worst stuff from that era, but that one was the comics' fault.

Del Rey's stuff was more consistent, but when they stunk they really stunk (Vector Prime, Dark Nest, LotF, etc.). I hated Vector Prime so much, it was at least 5 years before I picked up a new Star Wars novel. By that time NJO was over and done, so I was able to zip through those quickly. They got better, but never reached the heights of my favorites from the Bantam years (namely the X-Wing books).

They come back for a bit during the second half of the NJO series. For all the faults of the NJO series, they did a pretty good job of dredging up old bits of canon.

That's true. They brought back stuff from all over the place: X-Wing, Young Jedi Knights, the Black Fleet Crisis, the Centerpoint books... I'm surprised they didn't work another Palpatine clone in there somehow.

[Cikomyr]

I'm reading a fair few newcanon books, mostly to try make sense of the ST. Mixed results.

I like the ST so far, but if it needs books to be explained, then it had failed.

[Peelee]

I'm reading a fair few newcanon books, mostly to try make sense of the ST. Mixed results.

Stay away from the Aftermath series and you should be alright.

I like the ST so far, but if it needs books to be explained, then it had failed.

Well, the good news is no fear of that so far.

[Cikomyr]

Well, the good news is no fear of that so far.

Well, the ST does make sufficient sense to me, but I can accept other people not feeling the same ;)

[Peelee]

Well, the ST does make sufficient sense to me, but I can accept other people not feeling the same ;)

My bad, I meant the books which are supposed to portray the transition to the First Order... don't.

[Cikomyr]

My bad, I meant the books which are supposed to portray the transition to the First Order... don't.

Eh. I never really minded having an evil super Empire there. I mean, the only real issue i have is with Starkiller base, but the First Order itself i dont care.

Starkiller.. ...is what i meant by "writers have no imaginations". I mean, there was nothing better than a Bigger, Badder Death Star? One that we care nothing about?

Rogue One made you feel the real weight of the planetkiller weapon. It showed you first hand the dread the people of Alderaan must have felt.

Starkiller base.. was there...

[Peelee]

Eh. I never really minded having an evil super Empire there. I mean, the only real issue i have is with Starkiller base, but the First Order itself i dont care.

Starkiller.. ...is what i meant by "writers have no imaginations". I mean, there was nothing better than a Bigger, Badder Death Star? One that we care nothing about?

Rogue One made you feel the real weight of the planetkiller weapon. It showed you first hand the dread the people of Alderaan must have felt.

Starkiller base.. was there...

Let me be a bit more blunt.

The Aftermath books suck.

[russdm]

Let me be a bit more blunt.

The Aftermath books suck.

There is no greater truth in the universe.

[pendell]

ST= sequel trilogy? The Force Awakens, the Last Jedi, and whatever the next movie will be?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Cikomyr]

ST= sequel trilogy? The Force Awakens, the Last Jedi, and whatever the next movie will be?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

For me, yes.

[Sapphire Guard]

I'm not talking quality, more gaps in the lore.

Newcanon books put huge emphasis on things like

Spoiler

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how difficult it was to hide the existence of the Death Star, and the extent of the demilitarisation of the Republic , which calls questions over how Starkiller wasn't noticed and how TLJ's 'they're supporting the arms dealers' theme is meant to work

But it's kind of mean of me to question that anyway, perfect continuity's just impossible with a canon this huge.

[Peelee]

I'm not talking quality, more gaps in the lore.

Oh don't worry, it sucks on that front too! Advertising for Aftermath books? "Journey to Star Wars: The Force Awakens" Content for Aftermath books? Not that.

[Sapphire Guard]

Huh. You really do hate those books. I have read Life Debt, can't remember much about it.

[Peelee]

Huh. You really do hate those books. I have read Life Debt, can't remember much about it.

It's a combination of being a forgettable story at best, first-person present tense writing style, characters I never connected with, and marketing that advertised it as the opposite of what it was. Any of those things individually can be overcome, but all together make for a big ball o' Peelee hate.

[pendell]

I'm not talking quality, more gaps in the lore.

Newcanon books put huge emphasis on things like

Spoiler

Show

how difficult it was to hide the existence of the Death Star, and the extent of the demilitarisation of the Republic , which calls questions over how Starkiller wasn't noticed and how TLJ's 'they're supporting the arms dealers' theme is meant to work

But it's kind of mean of me to question that anyway, perfect continuity's just impossible with a canon this huge.

I have a theory on the spoiler in question

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It's not that they COULDN'T see what was in front of them, it's that they didn't WANT to see what's in front of them. The eyes are of no use to a closed mind.

The Republic had made up its mind that it was going to be demilitarized, and because of that they fit the facts to their preconception. Other facts or other viewpoints like Leia's were rejected and discarded, pushed out of polite society, much as Churchill went into the political wilderness in the 1920s-1930s.

That's why Leia had to form the resistance. Because she believed what her eyes were telling her, not the narrative of wishful thinking that the rest of the senate did.

It can take an earth-shattering event to get people out of their slumber and force them to face the real world. In WWII, it was the invasion of the France and the Low Countries which forced the allies to face up to the fact that their desire for peace was wishful thinking. In the sequel trilogy, it was Starkiller base blowing up their capital planet.

Look at it this way: If you drove a car today, can you tell me the license plate of a car that was in front of you? Even one?

But why not? It was right in front of you, no attempt to conceal it.

The reason you didn't see it is because ... well, your eyes may have detected it , but you paid it no attention, so you didn't "see" it. It made no impression on your memory or thinking process.

I believe that , in the act of perceiving , the mind is to the eye as three is to one; if the mind is closed no amount of contrary evidence will shake the belief; it will only serve to reinforce the falsehood thanks to the human power of rationalization.

Learning to think clearly and objectively -- to really see what is in front of us -- is a practice as difficult as any martial art. I wish I was better than a beginner at it.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[russdm]

It's a combination of being a forgettable story at best, first-person writing style, characters I never connected with, and marketing that advertised it as the opposite of what it was. Any of those things individually can be overcome, but all together make for a big ball o' Peelee hate.

There is also the author's reaction to those who didn't like the first book , and the general epic meltdown, and then the fact that Disney didn't tell said author to tone it down either.

I think Rian is not being reined in either, with his comments.

I really don't consider the books to be worthy enough to be in canon. They read more as somebody who simply never got the story. Really feel that they should have Tim Zahn write them.

I like most of the rest of the canon though, but dislike Aftermath and the other two books.

[Sapphire Guard]

I'm thinking more

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How can the New Republic be both massively demilitarising and buying huge amounts of weapons from Canto Bight's arms dealers?

And if they're going out of their way to establish how difficult it is to hide the Death Star even with nobody looking for it, how hard must it be to hide Starkiller with a dedicated organisation (the Resistance) keeping an eye on FO activities?

WW2 era stuff was a little more complicated than that, notably one of the reasons the Nazis couldn't build many heavy warships was because they knew the Royal Navy wouldn't allow it. It wasn't as though no one cared or noticed Germany rearming.

Being fair to Chuck Wendig and Rian Johnson, the levels of abuse they're getting is well beyond what anyone should be expected to put up with.


But I'm getting off topic. I should go back to complaining about Thrawn.

[russdm]

I'm thinking more

Spoiler

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How can the New Republic be both massively demilitarising and buying huge amounts of weapons from Canto Bight's arms dealers?

And if they're going out of their way to establish how difficult it is to hide the Death Star even with nobody looking for it, how hard must it be to hide Starkiller with a dedicated organisation (the Resistance) keeping an eye on FO activities?

But I'm getting off topic. I should go back to complaining about Thrawn.

Spoiler: Response

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I think that Starkiller base was probably built by the Empire, and that the FO simply found it and got it running/and-or finished. In my view.

I liked the new canon Thrawn bit, wish I had the Rebels seasons so I could watch Thrawn appear. Planning to buy those.

[Peelee]

There is also the author's reaction to those who didn't like the first book , and the general epic meltdown, and then the fact that Disney didn't tell said author to tone it down eithe.

Being fair to Chuck Wendig and Rian Johnson, the levels of abuse they're getting is well beyond what anyone should be expected to put up with.

I was actually unaware of vitriol coming towards him due to the book. Sure, it's horrible and shouldn't exist, but the same can be said of Blues Brothers 2000 and they managed to not get the worst of the internet thrown at them (I know, 2000, internet was a different place and all. Substitute for any other media piece that fits the bill).

But I'm getting off topic. I should go back to complaining about Thrawn.

HOORAY! For reals, I think you'll like the Hand of Thrawn duology. They're probably my favorite SW books still.

[Keltest]

I gotta say, a significant chunk of the alleged Star Wars fandom does a fantastic job of convincing me that they don't deserve nice things every time they step into the spotlight.

[Aotrs Commander]

I gotta say, a significant chunk of the alleged Star Wars fandom does a fantastic job of convincing me that they don't deserve nice things every time they step into the spotlight.

Are you referring to us?

[Peelee]

Are you referring to us?

Pretty sure Keltest is referring to the faction that harasses or makes death threats, not the faction that gripes on unrelated internet forums or leaves bad reviews on Amazon.

[Keltest]

Pretty sure Keltest is referring to the faction that harasses or makes death threats, not the faction that gripes on unrelated internet forums or leaves bad reviews on Amazon.

That would be correct. Thankfully I have never seen those particular "fans" on these forums.

[Aotrs Commander]

That would be correct. Thankfully I have never seen those particular "fans" on these forums.

That's entirely fair enough. (I did think it was a bit odd, hence the question, before I did something daft like launch into an entirely misguided defence of our fellow poster's civil discussion of Things We don't Like Very Much In SW...!)

Those sort of morons are sadly prevelant in ANY fandom of even small-to-moderate size; you just get more of them the larger the fanbase and SW is both large and well-established.

[Keltest]

That's entirely fair enough. (I did think it was a bit odd, hence the question, before I did something daft like launch into an entirely misguided defence of our fellow poster's civil discussion of Things We don't Like Very Much In SW...!)

Those sort of morons are sadly prevelant in ANY fandom of even small-to-moderate size; you just get more of them the larger the fanbase and SW is both large and well-established.

This is true, but the only two fandoms I can think of that have alleged fans openly antagonistic to the franchise they allegedly enjoy are Star Wars fans and Sonic the Hedgehog fans.

[Aotrs Commander]

This is true, but the only two fandoms I can think of that have alleged fans openly antagonistic to the franchise they allegedly enjoy are Star Wars fans and Sonic the Hedgehog fans.

Star Trek? The amount of flak that Voyager/Enterprise/Discovery gets is quite considerable.

Or the comic industry, for example.

[Peelee]

Star Trek? The amount of flak that Voyager/Enterprise/Discovery gets is quite considerable.

Or the comic industry, for example.

Yeah, but Voyager...

Just kidding, I ain't gonna try to justify stuff like that.

[russdm]

The main thing that I have always been curious or wondered about is why exactly does all of Thrawn's people have blue skin and red eyes, plus black hair. They tried to explain as something oxygen related or light related, but I can't recall what the different actual reasons were.

Or how they ended up with their philosophy being what it was. Or how their culture ended up. It's a bit strange and I don't recall if Zahn or his less capable writers ever explained the Chiss.

To be honest, I think I would enjoy seeing Zahn's Thrawn trilogy onscreen and fixed up to be canon, rather than the dreck of Aftermath books that we got. They hyped those books and we got cat dung soup in exchange. What a ripoff.

[Aotrs Commander]

Okay, since I am intrguied but cannot be arsed to read the summary on Woooookiieeeepeeiidiia, would someone like to briefly summarise why Aftermath et al sucked so bad? I have no intention of reading it, but I'm curious. ('Spose you better spoiler it for the sake of arguement...!)