Avengers 4: Endgame trailer

[Devonix]

Anything in a prequel that was not originally planned IS a retcon. Retcon is not a naughty word. It is simply describing a writer sliding a new piece of info into a place.

[Dr.Samurai]

Not sure why the focus on whether there is retconning going on or not. Seems like a pointless conversation.

Trailer was meh. Don't much care for Hawkeye when the stakes are so high, so I hope he's not integral to the plot or takes up a lot of screen time.

I'm not sure what the point of the trailer is either. Didn't really tell us much of anything. So Tony survived the Snap but now he's going to die from dehydration or asphyxiation? Sure, lol. Hawkeye is back? Okay, could have used you earlier lol. Do you have an anti-infinity gauntlet arrow in that quiver?

I mean... I'm definitely going to watch the movie but... what was I supposed to get out of this trailer?

[The Jack]

Calling it now:
Hawkeye kills thanos
It's a David and Goliath.
Well... Clint and Titan.
Everyone acts like it's genius.

[ben-zayb]

It's alright. It showed Shuri on the missing list and was likely dusted, which really sucks. Scott's status had a quantum explanation, so I hope Shuri also was just off the grid doing something.

Do you have an anti-infinity gauntlet arrow in that quiver?

Probably not, but he has plot armory arrows. Avengers? His side won. Age of Ultron? Same. Civil War? Yup, technically, but really everybody still ended up losing.

[Devonix]

It's a teaser trailer, I didn't need it or want it to show to much. As far as I'm concerned I'd rather they kept the Ronin thing secret.

[Legato Endless]

but... what was I supposed to get out of this trailer?

Cap and Widow sitting down to tell each other and you: the preview movie? Yeah it totally happened. It's a new trend where to avoid spoilers teasers are just confirmations this is a sequel rather than telling you something new.

Isn't that too broad a definition? It means that anything novel in a prequel is a retcon.

Regardless of one's preferred definition, it's just odd this is such a sticking point in online discussions. It's not like there aren't other examples of the MCU revising the world with new history or examples where heroes aren't involved in conflicts. Thanos' glove has been revised several times with new information they didn't originally plan.

Or for a latter example, there wasn't a flood of complaints after Dr. Strange's movie about why the masters of the mystic arts failed to show up to stop the Convergence in Thor 2, even though it fits in their purview, they should probably care about reality being erased, and even if they couldn't teleport across the globe with a spell seemingly all of their high ranking members can casually cast, one of their three main bases is located in London.

Even if one is certain to dislike the currently unknown explanation, it's already happened before in the evolution of the MCU.

[Pheldagriff]

I'm really surprised about the reactions in this thread.
imho the trailer was awesome and I'm looking forward to seeing the potentially best movie of 2019

[DigoDragon]

I'm really surprised about the reactions in this thread.

I didn't realize Hawkeye and Ant Man were so unpopular. I can kinda see Hawkeye I suppose since his powers aren't impressive and he tends to be a moody type, but Ant Man? Aww, I like him, he's a pretty fun character. :3

[Devonix]

I didn't realize Hawkeye and Ant Man were so unpopular. I can kinda see Hawkeye I suppose since his powers aren't impressive and he tends to be a moody type, but Ant Man? Aww, I like him, he's a pretty fun character. :3

I find it strange too.

[GloatingSwine]

I didn't realize Hawkeye and Ant Man were so unpopular. I can kinda see Hawkeye I suppose since his powers aren't impressive and he tends to be a moody type, but Ant Man? Aww, I like him, he's a pretty fun character. :3

The problem with Hawkeye in the movies is that he doesn't really have a lot of personality.

Most of the time he's just a sort of arrow shooting robot.

(Also the most characterful Hawkeye storyline in the comics was released after the first Avengers movie. If Matt Fraction's run had been a few years earlier we might have had a better Hawkeye.)

[Devonix]

The problem with Hawkeye in the movies is that he doesn't really have a lot of personality.

Most of the time he's just a sort of arrow shooting robot.

(Also the most characterful Hawkeye storyline in the comics was released after the first Avengers movie. If Matt Fraction's run had been a few years earlier we might have had a better Hawkeye.)

Really? I'd say he had a lot of character work in Age of Ultron as well as Civil War. And by the way, how much do you think they are going to play up the whole Wracked by guilt thing for Thanos?

[Eldan]

I didn't realize Hawkeye and Ant Man were so unpopular. I can kinda see Hawkeye I suppose since his powers aren't impressive and he tends to be a moody type, but Ant Man? Aww, I like him, he's a pretty fun character. :3

As far as I'm aware, I'm the only person in the cosmos who doesn't like Ant-Man, so you're not alone. But I hate him. I can't stand his smug face. (Which is weird, because I like a lot of other smug and/or jokey characters). Him and most of his annoying supporting cast. I rate it as my top 1 worst Marvel movie.

[The Glyphstone]

As far as I'm aware, I'm the only person in the cosmos who doesn't like Ant-Man, so you're not alone. But I hate him. I can't stand his smug face. (Which is weird, because I like a lot of other smug and/or jokey characters). Him and most of his annoying supporting cast. I rate it as my top 1 worst Marvel movie.

Does that include pre-MCU works? Because Howard The Duck is technically a Marvel movie...

[Dr.Samurai]

Calling it now:
Hawkeye kills thanos
It's a David and Goliath.
Well... Clint and Titan.
Everyone acts like it's genius.

We can definitely count on people acting like flaws in the movie are genius .

Cap and Widow sitting down to tell each other and you: the preview movie? Yeah it totally happened. It's a new trend where to avoid spoilers teasers are just confirmations this is a sequel rather than telling you something new.

Ah. That's sort of strange. If they announced tomorrow that Avengers 4 was in theaters, with no fanfare, I'd go see it. So a trailer that is simply there to tell you the movie is made... ok? Also, I thought studies show that the more a trailer reveals, the better the movie does. Now, I'm no fan of spoilers in trailers, but if you're right then this seems like a trend towards pointless trailers that don't help the bottom line.

Regardless of one's preferred definition, it's just odd this is such a sticking point in online discussions.

Wholeheartedly agree.

I didn't realize Hawkeye and Ant Man were so unpopular.

Well, Hawkeye just doesn't have a lot of character in the movies. He's just... a guy. Pretty straight-laced, but that's Cap's schtick. His abilities also don't lend themselves well to putting him front and center, whereas Cap, as a guy that punches stuff and blocks things with his shield, is more in the thick of things.

They tried to do more in Age of Ultron but I don't think just showing that he has a wife and kids adds all that much personality to the character. So I hope we don't get too much of Arrow McBlandman in Avengers 4.

Antman, on the other hand, certainly has character. I like him. I will say though that his motivations had a little hiccup in Civil War. The whole point of the first movie was that he wanted to be a model citizen for the sake of his daughter. But somehow, he manages to find himself wrapped up in the events of Civil War. This is totally inconsistent with the first Antman movie and is really just sort of hand-waived away in Civil War. If he had been doing it to become a member of the Avengers, okay. But he's specifically fighting on the fugitive side, so that's not the case. Now, of course, since the Wasp has been Snapped, he has motivation to join the fray in Avengers 4, so this isn't a total issue. But Civil War certainly had me feeling like the character was not fully realized at the time.

[Spacewolf]

Personally for me Hawkeye has always been there but has never really stood out so I don't really care that he now has a sword except that he is now even more ineffective than before.

Ant-man on the other hand I just don't like, I like his movies and supporting cast ok but the character himself is just kind of annoying.

[Darth Ultron]

Or for a latter example, there wasn't a flood of complaints after Dr. Strange's movie about why the masters of the mystic arts failed to show up to stop the Convergence in Thor 2, even though it fits in their purview, they should probably care about reality being erased, and even if they couldn't teleport across the globe with a spell seemingly all of their high ranking members can casually cast, one of their three main bases is located in London.

The Marvel comics have always had this problem too. About half the time, in the past before 2000 or so, they did often bend over backwards to have a loose continuity. So half the time they really did have good reasons why X person or X group did not show up to save the world. About half the time. Of course, the other half of the time it was just a mess that made no sense. Though, after 2000...well, Marvel is a mess of just random stories and they don't care about anything about the stories.

This is a lot where the MCU is too.

[Florian]

Oh, I actually like some of the less flashy MCU characters. It´s not that I don't enjoy a visual ride with Dr. Strange or so, but characters like the Black Widow, Hawkeye, Ant Man (and Deadpool) tend to sharpen the focus on heroic effort, not just power (Which is basically why I find Vision, Black Panther and Iron Man exceedingly boring. Gods... how I hate Wakanda....).

[DigoDragon]

Well, Hawkeye just doesn't have a lot of character in the movies. He's just... a guy. Pretty straight-laced, but that's Cap's schtick. His abilities also don't lend themselves well to putting him front and center, whereas Cap, as a guy that punches stuff and blocks things with his shield, is more in the thick of things.

Right, right. Like I said, I can see why the unappeal with Hawkeye.

Antman, on the other hand, certainly has character. I like him. I will say though that his motivations had a little hiccup in Civil War. The whole point of the first movie was that he wanted to be a model citizen for the sake of his daughter. But somehow, he manages to find himself wrapped up in the events of Civil War. This is totally inconsistent with the first Antman movie and is really just sort of hand-waived away in Civil War. If he had been doing it to become a member of the Avengers, okay. But he's specifically fighting on the fugitive side, so that's not the case. Now, of course, since the Wasp has been Snapped, he has motivation to join the fray in Avengers 4, so this isn't a total issue. But Civil War certainly had me feeling like the character was not fully realized at the time.

The entirety of Civil was sat poorly with me. The villain wasn't anyone special and there weren't any real stakes. It felt like a poor excuse just to have our favorite super heroes fight each other like one of those Death Battle videos (with more budget).

[The Glyphstone]

Right, right. Like I said, I can see why the unappeal with Hawkeye.




The entirety of Civil was sat poorly with me. The villain wasn't anyone special and there weren't any real stakes. It felt like a poor excuse just to have our favorite super heroes fight each other like one of those Death Battle videos (with more budget).

I thought the villain was the only part of Civil War I enjoyed. He wasn't a megalomaniacal supervillain or alien conquerer or omnicidal maniac...just a regular ordinary dude driven to extremes by his grief. His plan only worked because everyone else involved was a moron, but that's a fault of the entire rest of the movie, not Zemo's character.

[Devonix]

Right, right. Like I said, I can see why the unappeal with Hawkeye.




The entirety of Civil was sat poorly with me. The villain wasn't anyone special and there weren't any real stakes. It felt like a poor excuse just to have our favorite super heroes fight each other like one of those Death Battle videos (with more budget).

I felt the exact opposite of Civil War. To me it was the first Marvel film with actual stakes. You know that the Avengers are going to beat Loki, You know that Ultron isn't going to wipe out all life. There are no stakes there, the heroes can't lose.

Civil War on the other hand. The heroes DID LOSE The villain won, because his plan was small enough that it was capable of actually getting acomplished.

[Clertar]

Civil War on the other hand. The heroes DID LOSE The villain won, because his plan was small enough that it was capable of actually getting acomplished.

And in Avengers 3 we could say that their loss against Thanos is a consequence of Zemo's victory. The Avengers don't exist as a group any more, they're disbanded and they end up facing Thanos separately. If they had fought Thanos's lieutenants together, or even Thanos himself, they might have defeated him. One could argue that on Titan the GoG didn't make much difference; if you take Iron Man, Strange and Spider-man plus the Avengers on Earth all against Thanos, the scales might very well have been tipped.

[Dr.Samurai]

The entirety of Civil was sat poorly with me. The villain wasn't anyone special and there weren't any real stakes. It felt like a poor excuse just to have our favorite super heroes fight each other like one of those Death Battle videos (with more budget).

When I first saw Civil War, I was pretty disappointed. Especially coming off Winter Soldier (my favorite MCU movie). I did not like Zemo. And I (generally) don't like the gimmick of making superheroes fight each other. It's pretty lame.

That said, the more times I've watched Civil War, the more it has grown on me. It's still a little clunky (mostly Zemo stuff), but I can tolerate it.

One could argue that on Titan the GoG didn't make much difference;

One could argue that. But since Mantis is the single only reason they even had a chance at defeating Thanos on Titan, it would be a hard argument to make .

[Olinser]

About the only thing I picked up on was how SHOCKED Widow and Cap seemed to be to see Antman. This kind of makes me think he was supposed to die in the snap but being in the Quantum Realm protected him somehow, possibly leading to some kind of actual defense against the Gauntlet.

[Dr.Samurai]

Well, I think anyone that they've been unable to reach and has gone missing inexplicably is presumed Dead-By-Snap. And so since no one, presumably, could get in touch with Antman while he was in the Quantum Realm, he was presumed Snapped.

So they're surprised to see him because they thought he was dead.

[OutOfThyme]

Well, I think anyone that they've been unable to reach and has gone missing inexplicably is presumed Dead-By-Snap. And so since no one, presumably, could get in touch with Antman while he was in the Quantum Realm, he was presumed Snapped.

So they're surprised to see him because they thought he was dead.

Not to mention that since his other associates were Snapped, and no one was able to get into contact with any of them until he shows up on Cap's doorstep, it's completely fair that he's assumed dead.

[Tvtyrant]

I didn't realize Hawkeye and Ant Man were so unpopular. I can kinda see Hawkeye I suppose since his powers aren't impressive and he tends to be a moody type, but Ant Man? Aww, I like him, he's a pretty fun character. :3

They are quite literally my favorite characters, so I'm pretty stoked. Lang because he's not much of a hero despite having strange and awesome suits/powers, Hawkeye because he is despite not having them.

[Psyren]

I didn't realize Hawkeye and Ant Man were so unpopular. I can kinda see Hawkeye I suppose since his powers aren't impressive and he tends to be a moody type, but Ant Man? Aww, I like him, he's a pretty fun character. :3

He's also pretty versatile character power-wise. His moveset is street-level enough to deal with petty crims, but can also let him punch up to supervillains, and the cosmic aspects of the Quantum Realm have the potential to get him into at least striking distance of Asgard/Strange/Thanos echelons.

[Florian]

The entirety of Civil was sat poorly with me. The villain wasn't anyone special and there weren't any real stakes. It felt like a poor excuse just to have our favorite super heroes fight each other like one of those Death Battle videos (with more budget).

Civil War was one of the MCU movies with perhaps the highest appeal to me. It´s one of the few instances to tackle the question of power and legitimacy pretty hard. It showcased that morality becomes rather grey and the lines between hero and villain can become quite blurred, when you begin to see power alone as a source of legitimacy for your actions.

The villain here was absolutely not important. His motivation was pretty clear, but his actions were aimed towards polarizing the heroes and drawing out the worst in them. At this, he succeeded admirably. I also like the MCU version way more than the comic version because of that.

[Aotrs Commander]

Civil War was one of the MCU movies with perhaps the highest appeal to me. It´s one of the few instances to tackle the question of power and legitimacy pretty hard. It showcased that morality becomes rather grey and the lines between hero and villain can become quite blurred, when you begin to see power alone as a source of legitimacy for your actions.

The villain here was absolutely not important. His motivation was pretty clear, but his actions were aimed towards polarizing the heroes and drawing out the worst in them. At this, he succeeded admirably. I also like the MCU version way more than the comic version because of that.

I went into Civil War with VERY low expecatations, given the source material and resigned to the fact they might well kill someone off (Rhodey).

I was never so pleased to be entirely proven wrong on both counts. (And that scene at the end? With Rhodey and Tony? THAT is why character death is a waste.)

[Tyndmyr]

Anything in a prequel that was not originally planned IS a retcon. Retcon is not a naughty word. It is simply describing a writer sliding a new piece of info into a place.

'means retroactive continuity. If you're not changing existing continuity, it ain't a retcon. Prequels exploring uncovered topics are not retcons unless they significantly alter the meaning of what has already been shown.

That said, comics are notorious for doing retcons all the time. I'm not going to be shocked and appalled if we get a bit of that, so long as it makes sense.

Not a ton of info yet, though I had the same thought. What happened to Nebula? I like both Antman and Hawkeye, so neither of those are problems for me. I'm also very okay with Shuri being out of the way. Iron Man's already set up as the smart man for this problem, and you've got Banner there as well if you need a second for banter.