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2019-07-29, 05:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
See what I quoted here: Quotes from Fyraltari
Also this post from Fyraltari.
See this post from Mortsdeer.
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2019-07-29, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
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- In a castle under the sea
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Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
Spoiler: So this is a thread about self-driving cars now
We'll have a better idea of how the cars work than how our brains work.
At the end of the day, we'll handle both systems the same way; you get taught, if you do well enough you can keep driving, otherwise we kick you off the road. The big difference is that we can copy a self-driving program that works well to millions of different cars, whereas legal and ethical restrictions prevent us from copying the mind of a good driver into everyone who drives a car. (Also, the self-driving cars risk existential annihilation for failure where humans would only get a fine.)
Cool on several levels. Thanks for sharing the link!
Assuming all pedestrians, bikers, and passing wildlife are also computer-controlled? Sure. Otherwise, making self-driving cars isn't meaningfully simpler than if some cars are still human-driven.
The only time people have agreed to things like that have been A. when nothing obviously tangible was on the line and B. when some service was being offered in return (e.g, watching an ad that consumes nothing but time and phone charge before you can play a game). I can't think of any way to make that sort of business model work when the end user has to literally surrender their right to decide where they get to go. Especially since Pizza Fortress is unlikely to get enough unwilling customers to balance out the horrible backlash they'd get for kidnapping said customers.
And also in computer code, which is in some ways far more damning than asking people to sign over their right to be kidnapped. One just says "I might kidnap you when I feel like it," the other explicitly says "I will kidnap anyone who meets these conditions".
Spoiler: Ways the Plot Won't Be Resolved
DurkonElan: "Here, councilman who's been dominated by a vampire! Please, accept this gift of a clasp which absolutely isn't enchanted with anything!"
Gontor: "...No."
Gontor isn't casting a vote, he doesn't need to stand in the sun. As far as we know, only vampires themselves are hurt by sunlight.
It's not entirely clear how Dvalin's oath to the dwarves went, but it seems that it doesn't require him to actually pay more attention to the proceedings than the clan heads and their families do. And given that this entire arc has painted dwarven honor as being sillily restrictive, it's quite possible that he forgot to write himself an "In case of obvious stupidity" clause into the oath.
Spoiler: Misc
Because some people take things people say when they "know" they're being tested more seriously than they should.
I am on the GitP website so you are a robot.
Clerics don't get enough skill points to tie their own shoelaces, and while Durkon has a higher Intelligence than Elan or Belkar, it doesn't seem exceptional.
But he still has some skill points. If he doesn't spend them on Knowledge (religion) or Spot, what does he spend them on? Could be cross-class ranks in (Architecture & Engineering).
I assume that most churches have doctrine forbidding their clergy from forming HMOs.
So far, all we've gotten are ones that bitch about the sequels.
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2019-07-29, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
"You know where to hit it lad, just like yer pa did."
Heh, good innuendo.
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2019-07-29, 06:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2015
Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
"If there is only one choice - to accept, or to be imprisoned, until you accept - is it truly a choice at all?"
I heard this puzzle somewhere else recently. It seems startlingly relevant here.
The non-dominated elders have realized that the dominated outnumber them, AND they've realized that the vote is very likely going to result in the end of the world, if it resolves.
They can't easily overturn the vote, but they could stall for time. Perhaps if they were very determined, they could sit and refuse to take any action for days or weeks. However long it would take to starve or dehydrate.
And if they don't have the guts to take that kind of stand, Sigdi is there. She might have something inspiring to say, to get them to stall for the good of the world. And that might well be the difference, to give the adventurers and warriors time to figure something out.
(this probably won't happen, but if it does, I want it on record that I called it. : P)
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2019-07-29, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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2019-07-29, 06:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2017
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- US
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Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
I'm not too sure about that. Sure, you're less likely to die of internal injuries that way, but being pounded into dust can't be good for your "survival" as a statue. Plus, a buried dwarf could probably still call for help when the search and rescue teams start coming around; a statue might never be found (and presumed dead), which is probably as bad as dying, if not worse. Also, in Durkon's case in particular, the odds don't look so good; he threw a returning hammer, which has just been shown to be capable of penetrating several feet of rock, and it's going to be coming straight back to him.
In regards to the council's response, though, I don't think a "yes" response has such an optimistic outcome. Granted, the elders are willing to risk their own eternal rewards for the greater good, which is honorable, but none of the dwarves in their domain are able to make that same choice; if there were more time and it were a popular vote of the entire dwarven population, it'd look better for them, but as it stands most of them would die dishonorably.
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2019-07-29, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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- Europe
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Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
Do you suppose Thor could get a precision lightning strike through that hole? And would Dwalin be very angry at him if he killed the high priest to delay this vote? (Update: I see Kashem suggested this too.)
Last edited by b_jonas; 2019-07-29 at 06:40 PM.
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2019-07-29, 06:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
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- Germany
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Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
"If it lives it can be killed.
If it is dead it can be eaten."
Ronkong Coma "the way of the bookhunter" III Catacombium
(Walter Moers "Die Stadt der träumenden Bücher")
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2019-07-29, 06:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
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- Olympia, WA
Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
The trouble is, I can easily see a scenario where people would sign away their rights to steering the car or choosing their course — insurance liability. The auto manufacturers might decide to accept liability for accidents caused by their magic autocars if and only if the passengers agree not to interfere with its course.
And if Pizza Fortress has a advertising contract with the autocar company, they might pay $X for a simple ad, but $3X for every passenger delivered, which incentivizes the car company to err on the side of delivering passengers to whoever is paying.
When you put control of your car into the hands of people who brought you personality quizzes that conduct mass identity scraping while asking Which Potato Are You?, you can bet they’ll think of ways to monetize the vehicle that you supposedly own.The Giant says: Yes, I am aware TV Tropes exists as a website. ... No, I have never decided to do something in the comic because it was listed on TV Tropes. I don't use it as a checklist for ideas ... and I have never intentionally referenced it in any way.
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2019-07-29, 06:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
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- Magrathea
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Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
No, they had a ruling about that a few generations back. Was denied on account of marginalizing and discriminating against the minority of vampires in the land, as well as coincidentally all of the tick farmers. It was also the time that being Dominated was deemed acceptable for clan business, on account of
the head of each clan being dominated into doing soan attempt to allow a greater audience to have a voice of their own regardless of their state of being magically influenced.
Hm, guess it wasn't.
Oh. Divine guided hammer lasers minimizing collateral damage vis a vis self-inflicted wounds?Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2019-07-29 at 07:11 PM.
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-07-29, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-07-29, 07:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2019
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- Magrathea
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Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
I made one meant to make Rogue One still a solid movie, but less bleak and depressing. It wasn't running well, so I made a second one. Then the two started arguing about whether or not the ones who actually sent the plans were supposed to have never been seen again, and got nothing done.
That's one of the nastiest ways I've heard to punish someone for trying to save their own life. If the car gets totaled because the passenger switched to manual to make the accident go from "4 cars colliding, holds up interstate and kills 3" to "not strictly speaking impossible to survive, one car veers off and hits the side of the road", and then because the passenger switched to manual to avoid a bigger crash they have to pay for it? That is downright diabolical. It might not necessarily be the permutation you were looking for, but its in the same vein and one of its unfortunate conclusions without relevant laws saying that in the event of a life-threatening situation the passenger is not at fault/cannot be penalized for side effects pertaining to switching to a manual mode.
To clarify, this is continuing the hypothetical scenario that's being discussed and in no way referring to any real life political situation.
Actually, I might use this as a way to setup a slightly futuristic, probably mildly dystopic (more "suckier version" than outright dystopia) setting (party is together because they have to settle a bill and have to do a heist or something to actually get enough money to secure their opportunity to make it to court/to pay the fine, maybe add in later espionage bits).An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-07-29, 07:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
- Location
- Elemental Plane of Water
Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah, I always figured that the reason behind the death is what made it "honorable" or not.
A politician assassinated because of his political beliefs and/or actions while in office? Honorable death even if they're killed in their sleep because the reason for their death is tied up in their political works.
Death due to extreme cold while carrying desperately needed supplies to a town through a blizzard? Honorable, because the reason for their death(s) is tied up in the act of delivering the supplies.
Death via combat is simply the easiest (and therefore easiest to understand) way of dying honorably. There's less guesswork involved in knowing whether or not it was honorable, which I think is why it's the most common method of escaping Hel's clutches. But certainly there are other ways of dying honorably than just limiting it to combat.
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2019-07-29, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-07-29, 07:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2019
Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
The vampire's mortal host's full name was Gontor Hammerfell, yes? Could that be... prophetic?
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2019-07-29, 07:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
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- Magrathea
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Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
A friend of mine set up a basic neural network of several quality chatbots hooked up to one another with the intention of making a way to make the midichlorian thing work without sacrificing the mysticism of Star Wars. Long story short he theorized based on the wreckage that, for about a minute and a half, there was a functioning prototypical synthetically created intellect in existence. Course, it spent that time screaming bloody murder, so that might be a bit of a problem unto itself.
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-07-29, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
Love it. It's not quite an exact match, but I see shades of Bablyon 5 the Starfire Wheel in this.
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2019-07-29, 08:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
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- Magrathea
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Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
"You are under arrest for making serious alterations to the meeting room!"
"For making serious alterations? That's too vague. If I were to change the light setting, would that be an issue?"
"Well, there's nothing to be said about that, but-"
"Problem solved, nice talking to you."An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-07-29, 08:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
At least they managed to work together, I only had a single chatbot left when I finally pulled out of the situation, and it was just as advanced in all chat-related situations as before, though I have found some bots have disappeared when they met mine, I'm keeping it away from all artificial bodies to be safe.
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2019-07-29, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
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- Magrathea
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Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-07-29, 08:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Germany
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Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
I wonder, is gaining the capability to commit suicide and/or murder a sign of a developing artificial intelligence?
And if so, is it a step into the right direction?
It certainly is a natural reaction to the given task, though.
What I'm saying is, keep those chat bots the Hel away from the nukes.Last edited by Kantaki; 2019-07-29 at 08:34 PM.
"If it lives it can be killed.
If it is dead it can be eaten."
Ronkong Coma "the way of the bookhunter" III Catacombium
(Walter Moers "Die Stadt der träumenden Bücher")
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2019-07-29, 08:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
Seems interesting, in that since there is now a hole in the ceiling, it looks like it may be possible for outsiders to intervene. For one, now that we have a hole and a clear place to begin, there'd be nothing stopping any other race from enlarging that hole... Trouble is, we don't see any on that panel showing outside, yet.
Another possibility is non-dwarves being able to drop in through the hole? The orange barrier stopped non-dwarves from entering, but going through this hole directly drops them into the council room and bypasses it. In fact.. if outsiders enter from the hole, and do not pass through the runed barriers, it may even be possible to completely bypass the rules completely!Last edited by WindStruck; 2019-07-29 at 08:30 PM.
Avatar by linklele!
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2019-07-29, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
Sure, but course and destination are very different things. You can't sign a contract with illegal clauses and suddenly they're not illegal anymore; if I hire you in Alabama and you agree to work for fifty cents an hour, regardless that we both signed a contract for it, it's still illegal and I'm still not allowed to do that.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-07-29, 08:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
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- Elemental Plane of Water
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2019-07-29, 08:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
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2019-07-29, 08:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2019
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- Magrathea
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Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
I want to make a joke about an air vent being sealed to stop anything from blowing, but its too soon for that.
Marx that young people would know?
If I remember correctly, I think "an illegal/amoral/inhumane contract is still illegal/amoral/inhumane" is one of the key reasons why people dislike Nozick's philosophy and how it would end up working. That's kind of a good half hour drive away from this subject though.Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2019-07-29 at 08:52 PM.
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-07-29, 08:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Peelee; 2019-07-29 at 09:17 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-07-29, 09:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
Regarding a potential filibuster: Durkon and Sigdi are probably familiar enough with Dwarven law to know if such a thing could work. Based on how they seem to think they're out of time once the voting starts, it makes me think the rules don't allow for stalling in this case.
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2019-07-29, 09:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
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- six feet under
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Re: OOTS #1172 - Self-Driving Car Diversion
Would you buy a car that wouldn't take you where you told it to go? How many people do you think would? Now, if you said "take me to a pizza place" and it took you to Pizza Fortress instead of pizza stockade because of a deal, I could see that. But you saying "take me to Pizza Stockade" and it taking you to Pizza Fortress? Very unlikely.
Non caerulea sum, Caerulea nomen meum est.
Extended Signature.
I'm not not a humanoid. Come not not be one too.
Answer trivial questions in the OOTS trivia thread!
she/her
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2019-07-29, 09:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: OOTS #1172 - The Discussion Thread
"Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman