TaiLiu's Awkward Random Banter Thread #245

[Anonymouswizard]

Bah. I don't know why you have to be royalty to meet with dragons. It's quite unfair.

Nononono, you don't have to be royalty to meat with dragons. The lower rungs of the aristocracy are fine.

Also it just occurred to me that D&D tends to use French for knightly classes, with the two main ones being the Paladin and Cavalier. I'm not sure why that is, maybe just because Americans think of the French as fancy rather than depraved. Oh don't look at me like that, the French give as good as they get when we Roast Beef are in town.

[Peelee]

Bah. I don't know why you have to be royalty to meet with dragons. It's quite unfair.

It goes in the other direction, actually. Dragons confer nobility onto maidens.

[Rynjin]

Nononono, you don't have to be royalty to meat with dragons. The lower rungs of the aristocracy are fine.

Also it just occurred to me that D&D tends to use French for knightly classes, with the two main ones being the Paladin and Cavalier. I'm not sure why that is, maybe just because Americans think of the French as fancy rather than depraved. Oh don't look at me like that, the French give as good as they get when we Roast Beef are in town.

Well, it's a cavalier, not a chevalier. The former is English (in word and historical context). Paladin is definitely French though, it's an explicit reference to Charlemagne's paladins. I think TSR just thought it sounded cool lol.

[Ionathus]

I think TSR just thought it sounded cool lol.

So did the Age of Empires II team.

I now have two completely-incorrect definitions running around in my head -- a holy sword-and-board magical knight, and the best-in-class heavy melee unit in Imperial Age.

Sorry Charlemagne

[Anonymouswizard]

Well, it's a cavalier, not a chevalier. The former is English (in word and historical context). Paladin is definitely French though, it's an explicit reference to Charlemagne's paladins. I think TSR just thought it sounded cool lol.

I always assumed the cavalier was an anglicised version of chevalier, but I shpuld probably check that. (Turns out it's not, but it's also only indirectly to do with knights.) I believe Paladin is used because tyhe class was based on a book which used the word Paladin? I'm honestly unsure now.

All I remember about the actual Paladins is that they were like the Knights of the Round table, but there were only twelve of them and the lived in France instead of Cornwall. So they must have all been like mega-Galahads.

[Fyraltari]

Well, it's a cavalier, not a chevalier. The former is English (in word and historical context).

Cavalier is French for "horse-rider", my friend. Like you English, could come up with military lingo on your own.

"Paladin" means "of the Palace" and historically refers to the companions/trusted lieutenants at least since Charlemagne. Newspaper called Bismarck one of Wilhem I's paladins at the time.
By now, the word is mostly associated with magic warrior-monks because of D&D, though.

[halfeye]

I always assumed the cavalier was an anglicised version of chevalier, but I shpuld probably check that. (Turns out it's not, but it's also only indirectly to do with knights.) I believe Paladin is used because tyhe class was based on a book which used the word Paladin? I'm honestly unsure now.

All I remember about the actual Paladins is that they were like the Knights of the Round table, but there were only twelve of them and the lived in France instead of Cornwall. So they must have all been like mega-Galahads.

I was once persistently asked whether I was a Cavalier or a Roundhead, I thought it was some strange political thing, turned out he was asking whether I was circumcised.

[Anonymouswizard]

I was once persistently asked whether I was a Cavalier or a Roundhead, I thought it was some strange political thing, turned out he was asking whether I was circumcised.

I mean, it's also technically a political thing, but like centuries out of date. Cavalier=Royalist, Roundhead=Parliamentarian, and that's as far as I'll go on that.

The circumcision thing is one I've only heard of online, probably because of how rare it is over here (I don't know anybody IRL who I can say for certain is a Roundhead). Or maybe the fact that nobody was actually naked when changing for PE in school, except for swimming which stopped when we were like 12, who knows. It's a really weird thing to insist on asking someone though, even if you're planning on sleeping with someone does the presence of lack of a foreskin really matter?

(Let's skip the thorny issue of FGM for the moment, as the analogous variety is I believe by far the least practiced.)

[Rynjin]

Cavalier is French for "horse-rider", my friend. Like you English, could come up with military lingo on your own.

I'm aware of the etymology, but what I mean is "Cavalier" was used as a political term in England for loyalists to...Edward II I think?

[Anonymouswizard]

I'm aware of the etymology, but what I mean is "Cavalier" was used as a political term in England for loyalists to...Edward II I think?

Charles I.

[Ionathus]

I mean, it's also technically a political thing, but like centuries out of date. Cavalier=Royalist, Roundhead=Parliamentarian, and that's as far as I'll go on that.

The circumcision thing is one I've only heard of online, probably because of how rare it is over here (I don't know anybody IRL who I can say for certain is a Roundhead). Or maybe the fact that nobody was actually naked when changing for PE in school, except for swimming which stopped when we were like 12, who knows. It's a really weird thing to insist on asking someone though, even if you're planning on sleeping with someone does the presence of lack of a foreskin really matter?

(Let's skip the thorny issue of FGM for the moment, as the analogous variety is I believe by far the least practiced.)

This one's always weird to think about. Because my home country is very prudish in many ways, yet our school locker rooms and showers were always communal. You always knew exactly who was a, erm, "Cavalier" or "Roundhead".

I think the cultural fixation on it and stigma around being uncircumcised is fading, but it's absolutely been the norm until at least recently. Couldn't imagine making a decision about sleeping with someone based on that alone.

Overheard a conversation between two cis women recently as they were discussing the merits of circumcision for their kids -- it was very strange to hear the misconceptions they had (lots of cultural baggage over here about the necessity & benefits of the process). Thought about chiming in, but I decided interrupting a conversation to um-actually people with information about my genitals was a losing play.

[Ionathus]

I got to play tennis three times over the weekend, had forgotten how much I liked it! Thankfully there's an abundance of courts nearby...as long as they don't all get converted into pickleball courts

[Anonymouswizard]

This one's always weird to think about. Because my home country is very prudish in many ways, yet our school locker rooms and showers were always communal. You always knew exactly who was a, erm, "Cavalier" or "Roundhead".

Yeah, the UK is kind of stuck between America and Europe in terms of prudishness. People who did team sports at school probably had a better idea, and how much people are willing to be naked around others varies (I'm mostly fine with it, most of my friends wouldn't go beyond underwear even for close friends).

I can make a pretty good guess about a couple of my friends, mostly due to an unrelated incident

I think the cultural fixation on it and stigma around being uncircumcised is fading, but it's absolutely been the norm until at least recently. Couldn't imagine making a decision about sleeping with someone based on that alone.

Meanwhile I've probably noticed and participated in a stigma towards circumcision, just because it's so unusual here

Overheard a conversation between two cis women recently as they were discussing the merits of circumcision for their kids -- it was very strange to hear the misconceptions they had (lots of cultural baggage over here about the necessity & benefits of the process). Thought about chiming in, but I decided interrupting a conversation to um-actually people with information about my genitals was a losing play.

Urgh. Like at the end of the day it's mostly an aesthetic decision. Like there are apparently minor benefits and drawbacks but nothing really worth worrying about. The misconception that really annoys me is the idea that once erect you can't tell the difference, you can even for the shortest foreskins I've seen.

Yeah for some reason that annoys me more than the 'foreskin=dirty penis' one

[Rater202]

Can we talk about something else please?

Uh...

There is now canonically a magical girl version of Venom... By which I mean she styles herself as a magical girl but she still employs ultra-violence and eats her enemies.

[Ionathus]

Can we talk about something else please?

Uh...

There is now canonically a magical girl version of Venom... By which I mean she styles herself as a magical girl but she still employs ultra-violence and eats her enemies.

Isn't that standard for magical girl shows? I'm not really into anime /j

[Rynjin]

Isn't that standard for magical girl shows? I'm not really into anime /j

It's a common subversion popularized by Madoka Magika, and arguably more common NOW than playing the genre straight, but no.

[Anonymouswizard]

Can we talk about something else please?

Uh...

There is now canonically a magical girl version of Venom... By which I mean she styles herself as a magical girl but she still employs ultra-violence and eats her enemies.

You wanted to replace the discussion with something even more unsettling?

Isn't that standard for magical girl shows? I'm not really into anime

Eating their enemies? No.

Ultra violence? In magical girl land 'befriend' means 'to strike with beam weaponry that would destroy a Gundam'.

[Rater202]

You wanted to replace the discussion with something even more unsettling?

I'm American, violence is normal, frank discussions of sexual anatomy are not.

[Lord Raziere]

There is now canonically a magical girl version of Venom... By which I mean she styles herself as a magical girl but she still employs ultra-violence and eats her enemies.

Awesome. Comic book ridiculousness as its best.

as for whether the ultra-violence is standard....well. traditional magical girl fighting tactics are "Step one: shoot love/heart beam of justice to purify the evil. step two: win" but as the genre got.....older more darkened and as people tried new things, other methods have crept in. ultra-violence is one of them.

[Anonymouswizard]

I'm American, violence is normal, frank discussions of sexual anatomy are not.

Well I'm not discussing Frank's sexual anatomy, so they should be fine

The discussion had petered out anyway

Awesome. Comic book ridiculousness as its best.

as for whether the ultra-violence is standard....well. traditional magical girl fighting tactics are "Step one: shoot love/heart beam of justice to purify the evil. step two: win" but as the genre got.....older more darkened and as people tried new things, other methods have crept in. ultra-violence is one of them.

Well it's a large genre, it's going to have a lot of variation. The issue is less with shows like Madoka existing and more with them becoming the Watchmen of their genres (i.e. it's the most superficial aspects that were copied). Fate/Zero didn't cause anywhere near the stir in it's genre because the similar descendent into grimness is expected.

I once put in a YouTube comment what I think is the issue with follow the leader media: The Killing Joke ending was the author asking you to respond to it, not asking you to retell it. The successor to Puella Magi Madoka Magica isn't going to be a grim magical girl show that copies it, it's going to be a happy or melancholic or philosophical magical girl show that like Madoka takes some ideas and runs with them until they've presented the author's argument.

I've been playing a lot of Wrath of the Righteous lately, and to me it feels more like a third Dragon Age game than Inquisition did. Partially because it takes the same rough setup as DA:O did (a big invasion of Supernatural Evil Guys in a poorly disguised D&D setting) and then runs with different ideas. Like in Origins you're the big hero uniting everybody together and being awesome, but through both the PC and Galfrey you start to see the issues with that, what happens when you unintentionally challenge the command structure, and the morality of using power you stumble into.

[LaZodiac]

Can we talk about something else please?

Uh...

There is now canonically a magical girl version of Venom... By which I mean she styles herself as a magical girl but she still employs ultra-violence and eats her enemies.

I was anticipating you talking about Necroko. I adore her, myself.

[DataNinja]

It goes in the other direction, actually. Dragons confer nobility onto maidens.

Oh, well, makes sense. That seems the most reasonable way to bequeath nobility, all things considered.

[Rater202]

I was anticipating you talking about Necroko. I adore her, myself.

I don't kno what's more interesting: The fact that she knows what a Spider-Man costume looks like enough to draw one despite the fact that th elocal spider-person only just got bitten... Or the fact hat Parker Piper very clearly has a crush on her violent savior.

[HalfTangible]

... So that bit about dragons conferring nobility just helped me decide where one of the competing gods of death came from in my fantasy world.

It's strange how ideas/thoughts can fix other problems in your story that initially seem completely unconnected.

Spoiler

Show

That whole bit about dragons conferring nobility gave me the idea to have dragons in Lightbringer confer nobility to the Primal families. Which made me think of the moment their god, Volk, "dies" in a rebellion begun by the Primal, and how that would lead to a massive shock to the natural order (because when gods are murdered, rather than dying 'naturally', **** goes bad. The moon used to be covered in life and weather was predictable before Luna was killed). So then I thought, 'hey, I don't know currently why Nox doesn't exist until he arbitrarily does, so what if killing the god of war and murder leads to the release of the god of inevitability and death?'

Primal lands are also full of horrific monsters and so giving the royalty access to dragon mounts (wyvern mounts? young drakeling mounts maybe?) would both be very cool and fit. And it might help explain why they were able to kill their god... or at least why they thought they had a chance.

[Anonymouswizard]

Oh, well, makes sense. That seems the most reasonable way to bequeath nobility, all things considered.

Oh, so suddenly we're not okay with fairies in lakes handing out swords as the arbitrators of social class? Some people have respect for tradition...

[Peelee]

Oh, well, makes sense. That seems the most reasonable way to bequeath nobility, all things considered.

Exactly! Beautiful maidens spend time with us, they get to be a princess. And the bona fides are impressive:

"I'm nobility now!"
"Oh yeah? Says who?!?"
"This titanic ice-breathing flying armored majestic creature who can crush you and your kingdom like a bug."
"So, about the specs for your castle...."

... So that bit about dragons conferring nobility just helped me decide where one of the competing gods of death came from in my fantasy world.

It's strange how ideas/thoughts can fix other problems in your story that initially seem completely unconnected.

Spoiler

Show

That whole bit about dragons conferring nobility gave me the idea to have dragons in Lightbringer confer nobility to the Primal families. Which made me think of the moment their god, Volk, "dies" in a rebellion begun by the Primal, and how that would lead to a massive shock to the natural order (because when gods are murdered, rather than dying 'naturally', **** goes bad. The moon used to be covered in life and weather was predictable before Luna was killed). So then I thought, 'hey, I don't know currently why Nox doesn't exist until he arbitrarily does, so what if killing the god of war and murder leads to the release of the god of inevitability and death?'

Primal lands are also full of horrific monsters and so giving the royalty access to dragon mounts (wyvern mounts? young drakeling mounts maybe?) would both be very cool and fit. And it might help explain why they were able to kill their god... or at least why they thought they had a chance.

Happy to be of service!

[DataNinja]

Oh, so suddenly we're not okay with fairies in lakes handing out swords as the arbitrators of social class? Some people have respect for tradition...

No, because I am a fairy, and thus know my judgement sucks.

Exactly! Beautiful maidens spend time with us, they get to be a princess. And the bona fides are impressive:

"I'm nobility now!"
"Oh yeah? Says who?!?"
"This titanic ice-breathing flying armored majestic creature who can crush you and your kingdom like a bug."
"So, about the specs for your castle...."


Happy to be of service!

Ah, dang, the qualifier is beautiful maidens. So close.

[enderlord99]

Oh, so suddenly we're not okay with fairies in lakes handing out swords as the arbitrators of social class?

Where do you think the fairy got the sword?

[Anonymouswizard]

No, because I am a fairy, and thus know my judgement sucks.

I'll take you to meet some English lords sometime, you'll see that good judgement isn't really part of the job requirements

Also I'm sure we can round up some lesbians and settle this 'is DataNinja beautiful' thing once and for all!

Where do you think the fairy got the sword?

Dwarves, the same place as dragons do. While some dragons are really good at keeping the furnace hot they kind of struggle to hold the hammer...

[enderlord99]

I'll take you to meet some English lords sometime, you'll see that goid judgement isn't really part of the job requirements

" goid "