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2024-02-02, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
Polar Ray only gets one attack; it’s not like Scorching Ray. Does Calder have Split Ray? (That’d make it a 10th level spell, I think). (Ocular Spell was noted earlier, and that could also work, storing one in each eye.)
Last edited by Rilem; 2024-02-02 at 02:21 PM.
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2024-02-02, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-02, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
Did he go on a crusade, though? Shojo says he told others to go on a crusade and eradicate the information, and we don't see Soon taking part in the next panel. Also, we directly saw Shojo order a paladin have the Order of the Stick arrested for trial and the paladin interpret that as "kill them all if they put up even token resistance", so it's not out of hand to imagine Soon envisioned one thing with his commands and his Sapphire Guard envisioned something very different.
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2024-02-02, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
If the IFCC thinks V is going to die (big if!) and it's in their power to save V, then their choices are to let the party continue without an arcane caster, and with no ability to influence future events, or to let the party continue with an arcane caster, over which they still have one measure of control.
I think the IFCC is trying to herd the party towards a destination, and V is helping them by being the party's arcane caster. The pulls should be considered as continuing a plan of regulating the party rather than just trying to find the most opportune time to toss a grenade.
Also, didja notice that they blew a 20 minute pull to stop V from telling Roy not to blow up the gate? You'd think the 6 minute one would've done.
The spells have V, S, F components. If he's body frozen he can't do that.
Suggestion is an SLA Red Dragons get, hence no components, and a level in Mindbender lets him talk to Sunny without moving his lips.Last edited by Tubercular Ox; 2024-02-02 at 02:40 PM.
TinyMushroom drew my avatarSpoiler: A shaggy dog storyAn evil sorcerer in command of a dark cult is trying to unleash a god-killing abomination more real than the gods themselves. At his side, yellow eyes revealed a Haunter of the Dark. The evil sorcerer ordered it to kill.
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2024-02-02, 02:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
To be fair, everything we "know" about him comes from either A: Other people talking about him (and we all know how much this story likes unreliable narrators), or B: That one scene with him in the throne room.
To be clear, I'm not arguing that those things make that perception correct. Only that this is likely why the perception exists.Last edited by Debatra; 2024-02-02 at 02:31 PM.
Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
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2024-02-02, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
As funny as leaving your Paladins behind is, they were unlikely to make the same mistake as Soon given that the Dragon is unlikely to surrender a second time given he wouldn't want to be stuck in a waking nightmare again. Leaving behind some of your fighters for this is not a great choice especially since they are extra healers and tanks. Especially in the case of leaving behind O'Chul which can tank almost anything. That frost beam damned near killed V outright. O'Chul is made for attacks like that.
On top of that, where is Sunny? I'm not comfortable that the Dragon has a brand new Beholder cult member. This is not going to be a pretty fight. If Team Evil wanders in on this, that very well could be game over. As again, for the fear of the dragon surrending, they can't accept that because they have no way to trap him this time around. Finally, it's clear the dragon can't be reasoned with. He wants Serini to submit, but then claims in the next breath that he will reduce her bones to charcoal. He is clearly indecisive with what he wants, so the situation has gone full Fubar rather quickly.Profile picture made by my good friend Judas.
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2024-02-02, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
I gotta tell ya, I remember this from my first Gen Con way back in 1980-something. It then percolated through my game group too, though never as badly as what I saw in broader settings like conventions or once I got to University. Always liked paladins. Played a few. Never had the anticipated troubles, probably because we were willing to give other characters space.
Ranged touch. Pretty much 95% successful, right?
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2024-02-02, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
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2024-02-02, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-02, 03:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
And THAT'S why I didn't jump into earlier discussions on Serini's morality and the morality of Calder's being left conscious: I knew there was information not on the table yet. Also this relaxes me on the state of the rest of the dungeon, at least most of it.
I wonder if Caulder recognized the significance of the Paladin at the time he was captured and Surrendered because he knew Soon would halt the fight?"Thursdays. I could never get the hang of Thursdays."-Arthur Dent, The Hitchhiker's Guide
"I had a normal day once. It was a Thursday." -Will Bailey, The West Wing
Roy will be Xykon's Final Boss
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2024-02-02, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
They can't interfere directly to kill V so this seems like pretty banal point. Pulling their soul was thus meaningful.
Nah, he still came closer than she did. It took outside interference for Soon to lose, rather than Team Evil's own ingenuity. Moreover, they were far more powerful in the Soon fight than they were vs Lirian, Redcloak especially.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-02-02, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-02, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
Nice to know the trend of someone saying that LITERALLY EVERYTIME V is in danger since the IFCC said they could do that continues unabated.
He's had X years assuming preparing spells is a strictly mental feat.
From what I understand, in earlier editions the Paladins were assumed to be working with a Good Church, and a lot of DMS took as similar to (a real world religion) and then dialed it up to 11. Combining that with DMs that think Paladins are only interesting if they fall, or ones that just hate Paladins and want them to fall anyway, and you have players that have to be EXTREMELY uptight about being Lawful Good lest the Vengeful DMs come and take all their powers away. Which then leads to conflict with everyone who is allowed to have a looser interpretation of morals. Which leads to THEM hating the Paladin because he's the "no Fun" guy. And that became widespread enough it became a stereotype in its own right."Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman
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2024-02-02, 04:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-02, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
I mean, no saving throw, but you have to hit with a ranged touch attack still (because it is a ray). Sure, their huge Base attack bonus still applies, but it also uses dex modifier, which is +0 for dragons.
For this specific feat to work you have to actually cast it beforehand. Casting the spell requires verbal and somatic components, which you can't do while paralyzed. He could have Still spell and Silent spell metamagic feats, but he would have to apply both of them at the same time, which would put spell's level above 9th.
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2024-02-02, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-02, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
So looking at we know about Cador his current level has to be at least 35. He's an Old+ Red Dragon with level(s) in Mindbender and access to at least 8th level spells. An old Dragon makes him at least 28 HD, to get level 8 spells he needs another +1-2 age categories OR 6 levels in spell-casting class, so probably very old or ancient, though I suppose he could've taken the 5 spellcaster levels and at least 1 level in Mindbender.
So he is either a Old Red Dragon [28 HD] with 10 levels in Mind-bender and [at least] +1 more caster class level, an Anicent Red Dragon with 1+ levels in Mindbender, or some mix in-between.
Still puts his level around 35-39. BAB of 33+, Breath weapon of 16-20d10. HP is probably between 470~690 depending on rolls/classes and ofc a CL of 15+
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2024-02-02, 05:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
That's what I was thinking when four or five comics in a row people were asking if we were about to see the Monster in the Dark's species. But if it doesn't mean what we think it means, then what does it mean and why didn't we think that?
It's a shame I didn't have the idea last thread, when we were talking about what V's "other" time out would be used for. Could've prevented this entire situation.
How much damage do you think that is anyhoo? I figure anywhere from 15d6 (min level polar ray) to 50d6 (max level polar ray, somehow x2 because of the two eyes).TinyMushroom drew my avatarSpoiler: A shaggy dog storyAn evil sorcerer in command of a dark cult is trying to unleash a god-killing abomination more real than the gods themselves. At his side, yellow eyes revealed a Haunter of the Dark. The evil sorcerer ordered it to kill.
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2024-02-02, 05:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
What's all this discussion about a dragon preparing spells? Are we assuming Calder took some levels in Wizard or Cleric or something?
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2024-02-02, 05:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Tubercular Ox; 2024-02-02 at 05:37 PM.
TinyMushroom drew my avatarSpoiler: A shaggy dog storyAn evil sorcerer in command of a dark cult is trying to unleash a god-killing abomination more real than the gods themselves. At his side, yellow eyes revealed a Haunter of the Dark. The evil sorcerer ordered it to kill.
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2024-02-02, 05:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
If he’s got enough hit dice, Sudden quicken would be an option though it’s a big feat investment.
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2024-02-02, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
I think it basically comes down to an open question: did the Polar Ray come from Calder's eyes via the Ocular Spell feat, or was it merely an artistic detail?
I don't think we know yet if Calder was time-stopped in body but not in mind, or if the time stop failed completely (but Calder somehow survived the imprisonment, with nothing in the room showing the expected detritus). I lean towards the former, but am uncertain.
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2024-02-02, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2024-02-02, 06:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
No, but then the Order with the exception of Elan (and 50/50 on Haley) would have been killed by Tarquin, letting Xykon get Kraagor's gate unopposed.
Vaarsuvius: I see your game now. You shall possess my empty body, and with it seize the Gates for yourselves!
Lee: What? No, that's ridiculous. That vessel is your rightful property. Putting another soul into it would be a gross violation of our contract.
They cannot puppet V's body, and letting someone else would be the same basic thing.
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2024-02-02, 06:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah, no fiend would lie.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2024-02-02, 06:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
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2024-02-02, 06:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
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2024-02-02, 06:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-02, 06:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread
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2024-02-02, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1297 - The Discussion Thread