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Thread: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
-
2024-03-20, 05:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
- Location
- Moscow
- Gender
Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
Welcome one and all to the Forty-Fifth round of Zinc Saucier challenge!
Here Playgrounders come to test their skill in, so to say, making cupcakes of fish or T-bone steak of green beans.
What exactly do you need to do? To make a build that has the same abilities, look and feel as the Secret Ingredient WITHOUT actually using it!
This time I want to see jack-of-all-trades. I'm asking you make Factotum base class from Dungeonscape.
Our challengers will have about 1 month to build a complete build up to Effective Character Level 20 using a 32 point buy and all official WotC D&D 3.5 materials (excluding Dragon Magazine, but including any WotC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of a Rimefire Witch without actually being it.
Entries must be submitted by Friday, 00:00 (12:00 am) GMT, April 26, 2024. As usual, please submit your entries via private message to the chairman. Extensions are available.
Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.
Judges will then have as many time as they needed to post scores for all dishes.
Contestants will be judged and awarded a score of 1 through 5 in each of 4 categories:- Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc.)
- Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)
- Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e. not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavor for power or using flaws)
- Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)
Submission:
To standardize Entries, please use this format when sending it in:
PM: loky1109
Subject: Zinc Saucier 45, Name of your Entry
For revisions and disputes, do the same thing. It makes it easier for me finding the entries in my mail box.
If you have questions about the contest that feel inappropriate to ask in the main thread, please PM me with "Zinc Saucier 45 Questions". Keep in mind that I am not a judge, and so questions about how acceptable X or Y might be to judges will get (at best) a guess on my part due to my somewhat limited familiarity with the competitive community.
Recommended style is as the spoilers below. The end of the second post has a link to a Google Sheet that helps show the layout, if that will help you with planning out your build.
SpoilerNAME OF ENTRY
Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features 1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 7th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 8th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 9th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 10th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 11th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 12th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 13th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 14th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 15th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 16th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 17th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 18th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 19th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 20th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
Code immediately below (spoiler).Spoiler[table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[td][B]Level[/B][/td]
[td][B]Class[/B][/td]
[td][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/td]
[td][B]Fort Save[/B][/td]
[td][B]Ref Save[/B][/td]
[td][B]Will Save[/B][/td]
[td][B]Skills[/B][/td]
[td][B]Feats[/B][/td]
[td][B]Class Features[/B][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)SpoilerSpells per Day/Spells Known
Code immediately below (spoiler)Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st - - - - - - - - - - 2nd - - - - - - - - - - 3rd - - - - - - - - - - 4th - - - - - - - - - - 5th - - - - - - - - - - 6th - - - - - - - - - - 7th - - - - - - - - - - 8th - - - - - - - - - - 9th - - - - - - - - - - 10th - - - - - - - - - - 11th - - - - - - - - - - 12th - - - - - - - - - - 13th - - - - - - - - - - 14th - - - - - - - - - - 15th - - - - - - - - - - 16th - - - - - - - - - - 17th - - - - - - - - - - 18th - - - - - - - - - - 19th - - - - - - - - - - 20th - - - - - - - - - - Spoiler[B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
[table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[td][B]Level[/B][/td]
[td][B]0lvl[/B][/td]
[td][B]1st[/B][/td]
[td][B]2nd[/B][/td]
[td][B]3rd[/B][/td]
[td][B]4th[/B][/td]
[td][B]5th[/B][/td]
[td][B]6th[/B][/td]
[td][B]7th[/B][/td]
[td][B]8th[/B][/td]
[td][B]9th[/B][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
Please do not post details of your build on the board before it is ready, so as not to spoil the surprise for others. Similarly, please try to refrain from speculating on possible builds too much even if you don't intend to use them yourself.
Spoiler: Previous Challenges- Soulknife
- Bard
- Monk
- Assassin
- Barbarian
- Warlock
- Paladin*
- Warblade
- Pyrokineticist
- Ninja*
- Druid
- True Necromancer
- Dervish
- Whisperknife
- Epic Infiltrator*
- Master of Vipers
- Ranger*
- Flayerspawn Psychic
- Totemist
- Walker in the Waste
- Drunken Master
- Cleric
- Duskblade
- Psibond Agent
- Argent Fist
- Fighter
- Artificier
- Knight
- Spellthief
- Factotum no cooks submitted
- Dragonfire Adept
- Battle Dancer
- Illithid Slayer one cook submitted
- Swashbuckler
- Chameleon
- Dread Necromancer one cook submitted
- Warmage
- Kensai one cook submitted
- Dread Pirate
- Familiar
- Life Eater
- True Dragon
- Rimefire Witch no cooks submitted
- Brood Spawn
*: Classes marked with an asterisk have had their original posts updated to reflect the final results.
This competition is inspired by the Playground Iron Chef Competitions and uses mostly identical rules.Last edited by loky1109; 2024-04-24 at 04:36 PM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2024-03-20, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2023
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
I've had an idea -- I'm in to cook once I finish my Junkyard Wars entry.
-
2024-03-21, 02:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Arcadia
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
I'm sure I'll be able to get something in.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Join the new Junkyard Wars round and build with Cloaked Dancer and a companion creature!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
-
2024-03-21, 07:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
- Location
- Moscow
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
FAQ:
Round section.
Q: TBD
Q: How the heck do I even do this?
A: Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to select a combination of race, templates, classes, alternate class features, prestige classes, skills, and feats, meld them into a single character that progresses from ECL 1 to ECL 20, that is as close as possible to the secret ingredient as possible in look, feel, class/race features. How you do it is up to you, I recommend you read previous competitions if you are interested in seeing how others have done it before you. Capture the essence!
Q: Is Dragon Compendium Allowed?
A: Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.
Q: What about 3.0 materials?
A: 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition. Here's a guide to most of what has and hasn't been updated. I strongly dislike how WotC "updated" Master of Chains, Master Samurai and Weapon Master and you are free to use 3.0 version of them. It's specific exception.
NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine #318, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.
Q: Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, Diablo II, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources?
A: The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Both Diablo II books are allowed. Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.
Q: What about online sources in general?
A: If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.
I know at this moment WotC archive is shut down. You can use archive copy currently accessible via the Wayback Machine.
Q: Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana?
A: A few specific things are explicitly acceptable. The elemental/environmental races, spelltouched feats, variant character classes, specialist wizard variants, whirling frenzy, aspect of nature, and racial paragon classes are legal. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten. Use of flaws to take free feats is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category (penalty for use of flaws for some other reasons is up to judges). Traits are -0.5 each. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed. In a similar vein, LA buyoff and fractional BAB are also disallowed. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.
Q: What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean?
A: As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.
However, Leadership may be taken to qualify for another feat or class (such as the Great Captain feat or Legendary Leader prestige class), though a character still doesn't get its usual benefit in those cases. This is to allow characters to access unproblematic material that'd otherwise be made unavailable because of the Leadership ban.
Q: What's the minimum score in a category?
A: Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirement for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.
Q: Creatures and templates with no listed LA are playable, right?
A: No. No listed LA is equivalent to LA: -. It is not suitable for PCs. If you use it, expect judges to look extremely disfavorably on it.
Q: So what's the deal with equipment, anyway?
A: There is no official policy on how much equipment you should list. Historically, judges have frowned upon "item dependent" builds, but unfortunately the definition of that has been applied to mean anything from builds that don't function if you remove one very specific item, to builds that so much as mention a particular weapon. Builds that don't list gear should be assumed to buy useful generics - items to boost their primary stats, cloaks of resistance, appropriate magical weapons and armor, and so forth. If a build would find particular items useful, they should be listed, but experience suggests that the more generic you keep them, the more favorably judges are likely to look upon them, as a build being shut down because the Thundering Bagpipes of Urist McTrumpetbritches were unavailable is considered a weakness. Similarly, requiring items in order to be able to qualify for things tends to be frowned upon.
Q: Do you have any other rules and guidelines on how to judge?
A: We do, actually, designed to try and avoid unpleasantness we've encountered in past contests. The things we've come up with to avoid repeating this are given below.
SpoilerOne Mistake, One Penalty
Spoiler: What does this mean?
Judges are only allowed to penalize once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.
Non-exhaustive list of examples:
Skills
Allowed:
- Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
- Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
- Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs
Not allowed:
- Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation
Prereqs
Allowed:
- Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
- Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
- Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalizing for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)
Not Allowed:
- "Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
- Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes
Other general things that are no longer allowed:
- Penalizing because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
- Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalize if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.
- Please don't base your scores off the scores of another judge.
Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.
And some competition specific moments.
- Since the goal is to emulate the Secret Ingredient, achieving much higher power than the Secret Ingredient is capable of is overkill and should be marked accordingly. Likewise if the build cannot match the power of the Secret Ingredient it should be marked accordingly. Individual judges can decide how much is too much, as each judge will have different tastes. The goal here is to prevent all entries being Wizard 20 because "they do it better."
- For creature-SI rounds just polymorphing into SI isn't enough. Of course shape changing magic isn't banned, but using such straightforward approach should be penalized in the Innovation part.
Q: Do you have any contest house rules or clarifications to ambiguous rules?
A: Some that have come up in previous contests and needed answers to:
- All creatures are proficient with any natural weapons they may have or acquire.
- Bonus feats that are granted even if you do not meet the prerequisites do not require you to meet the prerequisites in order to use.
- Able Learner's benefit applies to the level you take it.
- Weapons from soulmelds are considered to be magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming DR.
- Unarmed Swordsage grants Improved Unarmed Strike at level 1.
- Not finishing Savage Progression is subject to a penalty to Elegance
- One dispute per entry. Submit disputes by PM to the Chair.
NB: If you just don't understand what did judge mean you are free to ask (also by PM to the Chair). It isn't count as dispute. - Ghostwalk ghost is banned
- Gold, silver, and bronze are awarded regardless of ties (e.g., 2 silvers does not preclude bronze)
- Spelltouched feats are legal and can be taken just like any other feat when you meet the prerequisites and have the feat slot available.
- The Variant Classes in Unearthed Arcana are considered ACFs.
Q: Can I submit more than one entry?
A: You may submit up to two entries into a given competition.
Q: Can I make edits or revisions to my submission?
A: As long as it is before the dishes have been posted in the reveal, you are welcome to revise or make edits to your entry. Please do so by sending a new PM with the changes incorporated.
Q: What is the chair's stance on builds with an "adaptation/variants" section?
A: If chefs have adaptations or variations on the build they want to present, they are strongly encouraged to put them together in a single section in the entry writeup. If you have a large enough variation, consider something like this linked build which presents two similar concepts to be judged separately.
In a build where major adaptations or variants are presented that would alter the score, judges are free to score the entry based only on the "central" or "main" build.
Links amusement/edification:If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-03-21, 07:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2020
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- Moscow
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
I was sure I posted FAQ post, but actually I just updated FAQ post in previous round. It was late night...
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-03-26, 03:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
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- the periodic table
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
I hope this round of Zinc Saucier goes better then when I chaired the same ingredient in December 2014.
OMG was that really almost ten years ago now?Chairman emeritus for Zinc Saucier.
Contests:
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2024-03-26, 03:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
The history of this place is something else: it just keeps astounding me just how many people and traditions have stuck around on these forums for all the time this place has been around.
Speaking of which: the last build competition listed in your sig (JW X) is the first one I ever participated in! Just thought that was a fun coincidence to point out.Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Join the new Junkyard Wars round and build with Cloaked Dancer and a companion creature!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
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2024-03-26, 06:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2020
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- Moscow
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
Last edited by loky1109; 2024-03-26 at 06:11 PM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2024-04-07, 03:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
- Location
- Moscow
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
Two weeks till deadline.
How you doing folks?If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-04-07, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
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- Arcadia
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Join the new Junkyard Wars round and build with Cloaked Dancer and a companion creature!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
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2024-04-07, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
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2024-04-08, 05:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2023
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
I’m making decent progress on my entry. I should have it in by the deadline.
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2024-04-19, 12:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2020
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- Moscow
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
Two days till deadline and my inbox is empty.
Do you need extension?If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-04-19, 03:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
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- Arcadia
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
I've got one entry almost complete but I also have a second idea and an extension for that would be appreciated.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Join the new Junkyard Wars round and build with Cloaked Dancer and a companion creature!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
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2024-04-19, 05:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2023
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
I should be home to get my idea in before the original deadline, but I certainly wouldn’t complain about an extension to polish it.
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2024-04-19, 08:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2020
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
Okay! I'll give you 5 more days.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2024-04-26, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
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- Moscow
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
I for some reason thought 12:00 am April 26 is midnight between 26 and 27...
Okay. I'm starting to post entries. Please don't post until I'll say it's done.If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-04-26, 03:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
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- Moscow
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
First entry.
Originally Posted by The Golden HippoIf you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-04-26, 03:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
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- Moscow
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
Second entry.
Originally Posted by Vesnica PomenireIf you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2024-04-26, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
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- Moscow
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
Third entry.
Originally Posted by Amilie SerrisLast edited by loky1109; 2024-04-28 at 11:35 AM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2024-04-26, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
- Location
- Moscow
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
And that's all! Three entries are waiting for judges!
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2024-04-28, 11:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
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- Moscow
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
And table.
# Name Alignment / Race Class Levels Chef Total Place 1 The Golden Hippo LE Glimmerskin Halfling Cloistered Cleric of Tem-Et-Nu 1/Hit-And-Run Tactics Fighter 1/Halfling Monk 1/Bonus Feat Rogue 2/Assassin 1/ Unseen Seer 8/Demonwrecker Arcane 1/Master Thrower 5 2 Vesnica Pomenire CG Half-Elf Spiritual Connection Trap Expert Skilled City-Dweller Elf Ranger 1/Fighter 1/Holy Warrior Skilled City-Dweller Paladin of Freedom 4/ Crusader 2/Skilled City-Dweller Undying Vindicator 2/Eternal Blade 10 3 Amilie Serris LG Grey Elf Martial Prescience Immediate Magic Wizard 5/Elven Holy Warrior Paladin 4/Swiftblade 9/Silver Pyromancer 2 If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2024-04-28, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
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- Arcadia
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
Interesting to see no savants or human paragons - I guess they're a bit of the obvious option?
Another zero-effort idea I had was beguiler 20 - you get trapfinding, intelligence-based casting, presumably some obscure enchantment buffs to cover the factotum's short-notice boosts, the ability to override SR... I might've gone in heavily on Eberron's draconic prophecizer feats so I could emulate Cunning Dodge with Prophecy's Mind and the factotum's skill/attack boosts with Prophecy's Hero. It felt a bit too off-target, though.
Something I also felt was pretty obvious was Insightful Reflexes, but nobody took it.
One thing I'll say about this build is that needing to get turn undead tended to give most builds I could think of a very strong divine flavor - it feels a bit awkward how such a small part of factotum ends up being such a huge constraint on possible stories to tell.Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Join the new Junkyard Wars round and build with Cloaked Dancer and a companion creature!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
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2024-05-06, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
Do we have any judge volunteer?
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2024-05-15, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Arcadia
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
There's only three entries: would anyone be willing to judge?
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Join the new Junkyard Wars round and build with Cloaked Dancer and a companion creature!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
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2024-05-15, 07:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
I was considering something like psion with dips to lose some manifester levels and add int to more things. ADHD + being burned out on my other competition made it that I never got past that.
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2024-05-16, 01:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2023
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- Maryland, USA
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
I'm good to judge. I should have it this weekend.
Build Contests
Horatio H'Wyrmbreather (Junkyard Wars XLVII) - 2nd Place
Ellay Hol (Junkyard Wars XLVI) - 1st Place
Officer Chip McDaniels (Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXVIII) - Honorable Mention
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2024-05-22, 09:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2023
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- Maryland, USA
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
Sorry for the delay. Sick toddler. Working on these.
Build Contests
Horatio H'Wyrmbreather (Junkyard Wars XLVII) - 2nd Place
Ellay Hol (Junkyard Wars XLVI) - 1st Place
Officer Chip McDaniels (Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXVIII) - Honorable Mention
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2024-05-24, 03:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2023
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro - Judgements
What am I looking for in a Factotum?
Skills - First and foremost, the Factotum is a skill monkey.
Versatility - Factotums are known for being able to do a little bit of everything.
Intelligence Focus - Factotums have a number of abilities that key off intelligence.
Action Economy Manipulation - Factotums can bypass the usual restrictions in action economy with Cunning Surge.
Spoiler: The Golden HippopotamusGeneral thoughts: This is the clear winner to me. Everything that I’m looking for in a Factotum is present and realized early.
Innovation: This is probably the weakest area of the build. It’s an arcane skill monkey with a cloistered cleric dip, which is cool but not that surprising. That said, and I’ll expand on this below, it’s a classic dish well made with some nice flare. - 3.5
Power: A fiery Gambit gone murderous, this is explosive when it needs to be. It values prep time, which is just a good look for a Factotum anyway, and rewards with good in combat utility while being plenty useful out of combat. More important than “how powerful” this build is, is “how the power mimics a well realized Factotum” and it does so quite well! - 5
Elegance: First impression: Very well formatted! I’m honestly envious and will probably emulate it in my own entries going forward. Beyond that, I love the explanation of the thought process and the step by step breakdown of the various Factotum features. Surprised at no Knowledge Devotion but then I see why you made the choices you did with your Domains and I think the trade offs were worth it. The order of your build works very well to get your key features up and running early on. - 5
Ingredient: Of all the builds, this clearly feels the most like a Factotum from early levels. A big part of that is the order you selected for your class levels, because that Cleric level is doing a lot of heavy lifting (as it should). It’s slightly more aggressive than a Factotum feels to me, but it’s still nailing the part. - 4.5
Total: 18
Spoiler: Vesnica Pomenire, the Pure VesselGeneral Thoughts: Always love me some Eberron! Also, always a fan of Initiators. Plus I dig the lore.
Innovation: Ballsy choice to go completely full BAB. Kinda reminds me of the Heroes Reborn version of the Swordsman from the 90s, but that’s because I am a giant comic book nerd. Really didn’t expect such a martial heavy build in this contest and I like your lore. Also, I don’t think I’ve ever seen an Eternal Blade in a fully realized build. - 4.5
Power: This is pretty close to a full initiator and I do like initiators. You’ve got the divine spellcasting and action economy elements down pat, though some arcane power (even UMD) and a slightly heavier skill emphasis would have made this complete. - 4.25
Elegance: Ooo… I can’t help but feel like the note about Ruby Knight Vindicator was in response to my recently raising a stink when I tried to do a Chaotic Good Cayden Cailean RKV, like maybe just cutting off that criticism at the pass, but still… It’s funny if so. I’m not bothered. I’m not. I swear.
On a similar note, can a Half-Elf take Aereni Focus? I’m not going to dock you because I think the blanket “Half-Elf counts as Elf” thing is sufficient and I’d allow it as a DM, especially because I enjoy “the vessel” concept, but legitimately asking because so many of these types of feat specify both in the text.
The formatting is a little choppy with the various story bits, but I get why from a Lore standpoint. However, the only thing that really brings this down is that the main schtick of the build, the Initiator stuff, comes on seven levels in with the first six feeling like a character biding its time. - 4
Ingredient: So my big knock is that despite the fact that your initiator levels come from Crusader, you end up feeling like a Warblade, aka the jock version of a Factotum and that’s not exactly a Factotum. It’s like if the challenge was to make Billy the Blue Mighty Morphin Power Ranger, and you built Tommy: very cool and the color is pretty close, but doesn’t quite feel like a nerd (even if he becomes a doctor in later seasons, lol). It also makes me think of those young Neil deGrasse Tyson pictures where he’s absolutely yoked.
Still, this accomplishes a lot of what you were trying to do very smoothly and the rest gets there just with some rough edges. - 4
Total: 16.75
Spoiler: Amilie SerrisGeneral Thoughts: What if Batman and the Flash shared a sidekick? I like this build a lot and would love to run it, but it gets its real flavor later in the game and side steps some of the things I’d like to see in a contest specifically about Factotums.
Innovation: This seems like a pretty standard Swiftblade build, maybe trading optimization for versatility. Silver Pyromancer was a welcome addition, but not wholly unexpected in a contest like this. - 3.5
Power: Swiftblades are already potentially worth the cost in caster levels for class features and this is a contest that favors generalists anyway. It’s easily your strongest quality. You make a case for your spellcasting to replace the skill needs of the party, which is valid, but it is going to hurt you in the stamina department (and skill use is the one thing Factotums don’t run out of). - 4.5
Elegance: It looks like it takes the whole of your build to get all the way to covering all aspects of the Factotum, but you do get there. Prior to that… and I see the difficult choice between optimization and emulation you have… you’re more of an arcane striker with ok skills. I think if you went the other way and brought in those later Paladin and Silver Pyromancer levels a little earlier and finished out Swiftblade at the end, you’d get that versatility online sooner in exchange for slower progression of raw power. - 3.5
Ingredient: This doesn’t feel like a particularly skillful character, not that it’s without, but you do get all the arcane and divine tricks that a Factotum dabbles in, and a Swiftblade is known for pushing the limits of the game’s action economy. Like I said, you get there in the end. - 4
Total: 15.5
Spoiler: TotalsThe Golden Hippopotamus - 18
Vesnica Pomenire, the Pure Vessel - 16.75
Amilie Serris - 15.5Build Contests
Horatio H'Wyrmbreather (Junkyard Wars XLVII) - 2nd Place
Ellay Hol (Junkyard Wars XLVI) - 1st Place
Officer Chip McDaniels (Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXVIII) - Honorable Mention
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2024-05-24, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2023
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
Thanks for judging. No disputes from me.