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2024-05-09, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-05-09, 12:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
When Calder mentioned making a banquet out of Bloodfeast, my heartbeat rate begun to get faster. Rich, please don't give me hope if you won't follow through.
Yeah, I'm trying to fill a blank there too. Vaarsuvius is a talker, but when they were on their evil mode they were surprisingly laconic other that few remarks.
How does everyone rate Kubota?
About Durkon's villain speeches, I think making/writing good speeches itself is about INT and WIS, but it's CHA that determine their effectiveness on the usee.Last edited by Precure; 2024-05-09 at 12:19 PM.
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2024-05-09, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
I very much doubt that the final fight will revolve around a straight up D&D 3.5 ruleset. Team Evil has at least 3 competing loyalties in it. I'd bet good cash right now the end of this story will not be resolved by methodically beating Xykon down to neg HP using properly chosen, resistance bypassing, attacks.
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2024-05-09, 02:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Whatever else may be in their orders, a picket's ultimate responsibility is to die noisily.
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2024-05-09, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
You mean the stuff about the CHA penalty not applying to others of one's own kind? I don't know how things are in these degenerate days, but back in non-numbered AD&D, it was right in the Players Handbook. "As has already been noted, dwarven characters get a bonus of 1 added to their initial constitution ability, and a penalty of 1 on their charisma score due to racial characteristics. It is very important to note the actual charisma score prior to racial adjustment, however, for dwarven characters do not suffer charisma penalties, nor are they limited to a 16 charisma maximum with regard to their own race." Etc., giving several examples of how the negative effects of the penalized CHA (such as a maximum number of followers) wouldn't come into effect with regard to other dwarves.
Appendix I, Psionics, specifies that it's the unmodified INT, WIS, and CHA stats that affect matters.
More of an English Lit joke, really, but also a possible explanation for the eyestalk number not matching the typical Beholder's. I'm not claiming that it's likely to be the case. (My knowledge of biology isspottyeclectic. I never got along well with biology, biochemistry, or geology, which all require memorization of large volumes of factoids. I'm good at spotting and remembering patterns. I aced second-year organic chemistry, with one major exception: I could not remember the association of reactions with the names of their discoverers. For example, I had no trouble remembering a certain category of common reactions, and seeing the relevant reagents' structures, could figure out how they would react with each other. Seeing the product structure, I could predict the appropriate reagents to make it. But if I was asked what the Diels-Alder reaction was, or was shown a diagram and asked what the name was, I couldn't do that.)
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2024-05-09, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
A few questions for everyone in the thread:
1. What combat round are we on?
2. How many standard or full-round actions has Calder taken?
3. How many standard or full-round actions has Elan taken?
4. How many standard or full-round actions has Serini taken?
Spoiler: My answers1. The 5th round, counting the surprise round as round #0.
2. Ten: Nine standard actions and one full attack.
3. Two standard actions.
4. One standard action.
Spoiler: How is this possible?
1. The DM wrote down an extra zero for Calder's hitpoints, that's why he is still alive and the combat is still going.
2. Calder was put in stasis back during 3.0. One of his last actions was to cast 3.0 Haste on himself, which gives him an extra partial action each round. Because of the stasis, the Haste spell didn't expire in the decades since.
3. The player doesn't know the rules for bardic music, and the other players know he's useless so they haven't bothered to tell him.
4. She's an NPC and the DM forgot about her until round five.
Last edited by MeowMeow; 2024-05-09 at 05:11 PM.
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2024-05-09, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
I think you have 3 and 4 wrong in a way that fundamentally misunderstand Rich's process, as he's gone into before.
Elan and Serini both took the same number of standard or full-round actions as Calder. Most of those were irrelevant to the narrative ("Here Calder takes a little more damage...") so he didn't bother to draw them.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2024-05-09, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Yes, you're a chemist, that's assumed.
Which can go die in a fire.
For reals, chemistry was my favorite of them all. Which is impressive since i was an enormous fan of just rounding gravity to 10 and pi to 3 and still being pretty much correct in physics.
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2024-05-09, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
I don't think that's something we can take from that scene. It doesn't seem to have happened anywhere else, Barbarian rage aside. Or the times it's activated Roy's Weapon of Legacy-- which, if we want to take anything from that scene that can be applied elsewhere, I'd say it's a very crude version of that power, not just "being angry."
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2024-05-09, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by brian 333; 2024-05-09 at 06:41 PM.
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2024-05-09, 07:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
A.) haven't moved to Washington yet. Just here because the feds told me to be.
2.) Mars probe crash was due to a private contractorsswho used imperial instead of metric and didn't tell anyone else.
We landed on the moon because our physicists assume a spherical cow in a vacuum. Rounding pi is close enough forgovernment workschool.
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2024-05-09, 07:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Well, except that the "point of effect" being discussed here is "impairment" not "death" ("wounds that don't drop you from shock", right?). Which makes the whole thing kinda ciruclar, since it's basically saying "if you aren't affected by the damage, then you aren't affected by the damage". So... somewhat pointless IMO.
The real point is that there is typicallly a pretty decent range of damage/time in between "hurt to the point of dropping, or inaction, or unconsciousness" and "hurt to the point of death". So even if we assume that wounds don't cause any impairment prior to causing you to "drop from shock" (a claim probably far more accurate to modern firearms than older melee weapons, but whatever), there's still a degree of innacuracy in terms of how relatively few hps exist between the point of "falling to the ground unconscious" and "dead" (typically just 10 points). More realistically, and especially with melee weapons injuries, it's entirely possible for someone to become so injured that they can no longer fight, but still take many hours (or even days!) to die.
So yeah, that counter is really just moving the goalposts in terms of the problem. TBH? It's just not something to worry about, since it still "works" as a game mechanic.
Yeah. Unfortunately, Roy doesn't actually say "Spellsplinter" when using the manuever, so it's hard to tell exactly when it's being used. But he clearly uses it here, since it's commented on. When we see him here, it looks like Roy is either just doing an attack, or an AoO, and Durkon just made a bog standard concentration roll to keep casting his spell.
As to the question of how the move works, I would assume it's more than just forcing the caster to make a concentration roll, since that's what casters normally have to do to cast while being attacked/damaged in melee. If I were to guess, I would assume that the move sacrifices some damage for a much greater chance of interrupting the spell (which could range from "automatically disrupts one spell cast in melee range" to "significant negative to concentration roll to one spell cast while in melee range").
And yeah. From a storytelling point of view, it would kinda suck to have Roy die, go to the afterlife, meet his grandfather and learn this super rare feat, only to have it be useless (or only marginally useful) against Xykon. My guess is that as long as Roy is able to stay in melee range with Xykon, and is able to keep using it, he'll be able to lock down Xykon's spell casting. It's not like this is an automatic "I win" button for him though. Xykon still has flight (and his new boots mean he can pretty much always escape melee range if he wants). Xykon also has allies who may notice this and do something to interfere with Roy being able to use the feat against Xykon. But it will presumably come in play at some point, and create a noticable dent in TE's ability to just straight up curb stomp the Order (which is a good thing).
Those plans were before they learned how to enter the Final Dungeon. Now that they know this, they know they have plenty of time. Roy literally says they will rest once they "pick their spot" in the Final Dungeon, also that there's no need to rest before hand, since they should not encounter any fights on the way to getting to "their spot" (which, as things tend to go, did not turn out to be true). Also Roy clearly seems to think that TE will be busy searching the dungeons for the next "48 hours or so".
So. Barring some dramatic change in what TE does, it will take them the next couple days to get into the Final Dungeon, at which point they will still have to fight their way through the various traps and monsters to reach the gateroom (or whatever "spot" near there that the Order sets up their ambush). Unless Durkon actually dies here, pretty much nothing that happens in this battle with Calder will affect the battle with TE that is to come. The only impact may be on levels they have when TE gets there. Some of them may gain a level in the fight. Some may lose a level if they die and have to be resurrected. But in any case, the Order will have their full complement of spells when TE gets there.
I'm not seeing any of those. We did see cut away scenes. Blackwing reported exactly what TE was doing. They were running through the dungeons at a rate of about one every 7 minutes (and currently taking a snack break when Blackwing joined back up with the group). There's zero reason to assume that whey either will or can change anything they are doing to actually get to the Final Dungeon any faster than the current timeline.
They are in a dungeon that has been sealed with everything in stassis for like 50 years. There's nothing wandering or roaming inside. So I'm not sure how taking a long rest can result in an encounter. Admittedly, the one variable here is if Calder does somehow flee this fight and in the process wakes up other monsters in the dungeon. Then, all bets will be off. I would still expect that the Order could baracade themselves in the antechamber to the gate room (or wherever), and safely rest and wait for TE to get there.
TE is not going to be able to get a long rest between "fight our way through the traps and monsters between the entrance and the gateroom" and "arriving at the gateroom". They don't know the dungeon. They don't know where the gateroom is. How on earth would they know when they've defeated or bypassed all the stuff between them and the gate, without actually arriving at the gate? At which point, the Order attacks them while they are at full strength and TE is weakened from whatever resources they had to expend to get there.
Again. This is "if things go according to plan". Which is by no means a guaranted thing. But, at least from what we currently know, and the current conditions of the two parties, the Order should have a significant advantage on TE in terms of rest and spells when they do finally fight. And to be honest? They'll need that advantage to have a chance. Xykon alone could wipe the entire group if the conditions are right (pretty much any case where he can get his big AE spells off against them). I think that "Order fully rested and prepared" against "TE, significantly depleted" would still be a pretty good and even fight.
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2024-05-09, 08:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
During the prior strip, Calder prevented V from falling and suffering (likely) fatal damage. Since he believes V to be protected from mind blank, why the save? I realize it is probably to dominate V as a future follower, but from the story standpoint it must be to set something up. Maybe that is “an act of mercy” and the paladins will accept a surrender?
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2024-05-09, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
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2024-05-09, 10:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
The Romanian judge gives this triple combo (Macbeth * asexual fission * AD&D) a 9.5 on the groan scale. One heck of a degree of difficulty. (^_~)
As I suggested earlier, it could be something as simple as Xykon refusing to take him seriously, and being unable to remember Roy's name. Though I'm not convinced that this "rule of angry" exists. In that particular case, it wasn't being thrown that caused Xykon all that damage, but the effects of Dorukan's wards.
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2024-05-10, 01:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Two-page villain monologue leading up to that line, one of the best in the comic.
"Had you simply attacked me, I would have left you dead. But you made the mistake of involving my family in our conflict. This leaves me with the task of ensuring that today's events will never rise again to threaten them.
One of my new friends has a special epic necromancy spell for just such an occasion as this. She calls it–
FAMILICIDE!
Every living creature that directly shares your bloodline is dead. Every living creature that is directly related to any of those creatures is also dead. Anyone who could possibly make a claim to be part of your family is gone now.
(...)
Now no one will come to avenge your defeat. No one will lament your passing. Think about the fate you have brought upon your family as you suffer in the afterlife.
This – and no less – is the price of threatening my family.
Disintegrate."
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2024-05-10, 07:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
I have a hunch Xykon is not going to be our final challenge. I know it's been years, but remember Redcloak's interview with Tsukiko, just before he silenced her; the ritual they will enact gives control of the gate to the Dark One so he can move it to any plane, once open. It doesn't give Xykon control of the Snarl.
While I'm certain we'll have a couple combat rounds at least with Xykon, there's every possibility he will wind up on .. maybe not the same side, but an adjacent side. He wants to rule the world, not destroy it. Redcloak, by contrast, is happy to destroy the world if it means goblins get a better position in the next one.
Let's review the players and their goals that we know of.
The heroes want to secure the gate and prevent its destruction, thus saving the world. They want to gain the Dark One's cooperation to establish a four-quiddity lock on t he gates, which should be enough to properly secure the snarl.
The Dark One wants, at the least, to be more equal to the other gods. It's also possible he would like a world in which he is the only god, and goblins the only species. Just because you're a member of a downtrodden minority group doesn't mean you can't be a speciesist , evil being. If anything, it seems to me that being downtrodden tends to breed just the sort of hatred and anger which most societies consider evil.
The Fiends council is still in play, although what exactly they have in mind I do not know yet. Surely the destruction of this world isn't in their best interest either? You can't harvest evil souls or inflict untold suffering on a planet unmade by the Snarl.
Xykon wants to rule the world. His goal is the simplest and most straightforward.
He and the Dark One are at cross-purposes. Which means that at some point there's going to be a falling out. Redcloak expects that both he and Xykon will be killed when the ritual is completed -- or, worse, unmade by the Snarl. There's no way Xykon will go along with this.
Ah, who am I kidding? We're setting up for the Snarl to be the final boss. I fully expect OOTSworld to be destroyed and remade before all is said and done. And I fully expect, when this happens, that Xykon will be destroyed by the Snarl in the process.
Respectfully,
Brian P."Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
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2024-05-10, 07:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
The entire point I was making is THERE IS NO IMPAIRMENT other than dropping!
None. People have done studies. If you do not drop, you are not significantly impaired. That there is only one type of impairment, and it is dropping is not circular.
And impairment sort of dropping is not a thing that happens. There are two states, fighting and not fighting.
Dropping and death are separate, but that's true in D&D too. They're too connected in D&D (you don't drop till you are dying), but if you do not drop in real life then you are effectively unimpaired.
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2024-05-10, 07:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
There aren't mechanics for arms and legs being injured to the point of impairing movement, which is a thing IRL though.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
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2024-05-10, 08:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
I respectfully disagree.
We do not know much about The Snarl, it is true. I expect we will learn more. However, The Author has compared The Snarl to The Maltese Falcon and The Briefcase in Pulp Fiction. The Snarl will motivate characters to act, but will not directly act itself. It is a McGuffin: the object the others fight over.
Princess Buttercup and The One Ring are more like The Snarl than Emperor Palpatine.
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2024-05-10, 08:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
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2024-05-10, 09:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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2024-05-10, 11:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Reading through the discussions of game mechanics in this thread makes me VERY glad I'm still on AD&D version 2 (actually homebrew 1.5).
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2024-05-10, 11:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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This page is comedy gold! It just has so many layers. Belkar simultaneously insulting the villain, getting in position to attack the villain, AND trolling Durkon? Absolute perfection. And Blackwing's prompt "reassurance" of V is just the icing on the cake.
This is one of the funniest moments in the comic so far... and that's saying a lot, honestly! You are such a skilled writer, Mr. Comic Maker, sir. Bravo!
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2024-05-10, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Right. And my point was that this is a pointless observation, since the real point is that "dropping" and "death" are the same thing in D&D (or close enough not to make a significant difference). And *that* is what folks find unrealistic.
The point is that there are a host of injuries which will impair you to the point of no longer being able to function (ie: "dropping you"), while still leaving you quite some time away from actually dying.
Even in the absence of "degrees of impairment" type rules, even the standard "you fight at full capablity, and then you die" is problematic.
Setting aside that this is only one aspect of the issue, I also don't quite agree. With modern firearms where hydrostatic shock is a very real thing, that is generally true. And even then also generally in the modern sense. A soldier with their arm or leg blown to bits, if not incapcacitated by shock, can still fight, because he's likely using a firearm. Prop him up, point him in the correct direction, and he can continue providing fire downrange. That same soldier, fighting with a sword and shield on a battlefield, will be unable to wield his weapons effectively, despite being quite capable of crawling, hopping, or otherwise moving around in ways (or even continuing to fight with one remaining functional arm) that don't meet the definition of "incapacitated".
Unless you are using the word "impaired" as a synonym for "incapacitated", then I don't think I agree with this.
Again. Excactly how many of these studies involved people fighting in sword fights? Or any other type of combat *not* involving modern ballistic type weapons?
You telling me that boxers experience no impairment of their abilitiy to fight over the course of a bout? Or MMA fighters? What you are saying literally flies in the face of what every participant and spectator of these sports knows to be true.
Peopple get tired while fighting. They suffer muscle fatigue. They suffer injuries which hamper their abilities over time. Every quarterback who just whacked their hand on a defensive lineman's helmet knows this. So no. The idea that you function at perfect 100% capability until the moment you drop unconscious (and in the case of D&D are either already dead, or are bleeding to death and will die without immediate medical attention) is frankly absurd.
We accept it for game mechanic simplicity and game play functionality, but it is in no way actually realistic. I mean, I suppose if we only measure a binary "can you fight or not?" measurement, then what you say is true. But if we're measuring "how effectively can you fight?" (ie: degrees of impairment), it's not. I suspect the issue is that we may be using very different definitions of the word "unimpaired" maybe?Last edited by gbaji; 2024-05-10 at 02:31 PM.
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2024-05-10, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Question: are there rules in the D&D version used by the comic regarding how many times/day a dragon can use its breath weapon? If I remember correctly from 1st Edition (the only one I'm really familiar with), a dragon could only breathe 3x/day. If that's the case, then Calder would be fireless for the rest of the current combat.
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2024-05-10, 08:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
"Thursdays. I could never get the hang of Thursdays."-Arthur Dent, The Hitchhiker's Guide
"I had a normal day once. It was a Thursday." -Will Bailey, The West Wing
Roy will be Xykon's Final Boss
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2024-05-10, 08:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
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2024-05-11, 04:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
As much as the team has every right to fight back here, I wonder if its a mistake to try and wrap things up quickly here, as Roy put it.
Maybe theres still a chance they could at least try and manage some kind of temporary truce. Calder is showing his vanity here, he must care if the universe gets erased and nobody remembers who he was.
I know its not really eeasonable to think about that right in the middle of combat, but even if they could just find a way to fling Calder out into the canyon to bump into team evil, theyd probably come to blows just out of a clash of personalities.
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2024-05-11, 11:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Red Dragons are very Tankish. It's just that if you're taking on 6 17th+ Level Adventures, a small squad of sidekicks, and a T-Rex, you're gonna get alittle overwhelmed. Take it from a DM. No monster is gonna be a real challenge if he's heavily outnumbered. He's gonna take too much damage to fast before he can do all his cool stuff.