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2024-05-09, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
There is no rule more specific than "Ultimately, the Dungeon Master is the authority on the campaign and its setting, even if that setting is a published world." And a DM who is incapable of asserting themselves even with that text in hand, would be incapable of asserting themselves no matter what is written in any rulebook. At that point, the designers are not the problem.
(Moreover - they put that text at the front of the PHB, so the players can't even credibly claim that they weren't exposed to it, or at least that it's unreasonable for them to have been exposed to it.)
I completely agree, and they've done that.Last edited by Psyren; 2024-05-09 at 12:58 PM.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2024-05-09, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
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- I'm on a boat!
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Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
Red Mage avatar by Aedilred.
Where do you fit in? (link fixed)
RedMage Prestige Class!
Best advice I've ever heard one DM give another:
"Remember that it is both a game and a story. If the two conflict, err on the side of cool, your players will thank you for it."
Second Eternal Foe of the Draconic Lord, battling him across the multiverse in whatever shapes and forms he may take.
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2024-05-09, 08:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- The Land of Cleves
- Gender
Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
What's a player doing reading the module, anyway? The only way a player should even be encountering that sidebar in the first place is if the DM chooses to share it with them.
Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2024-05-23, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
People aren't going to confuse a tiefling for a fiend under normal circumstances. Those who have seen fiends know that they don't look the same, and those who have never seen fiends are unlikely to leap to the conclusion that this stranger is one of those monsters that you only hear about in stories. ("If they believe in angels, why should they be surprised to see one?") Dragonborn are even less likely to be mistaken for dragons; they're humanoid bipeds, for Bahamut's sake!
Someone's reaction to an unfamiliar species will probably be more about the unfamiliarity. Not "I assume that this dragon-lookin' guy is exactly like a dragon" so much as "I've never seen a dragon-lookin' guy like this one before". Someone who knows nothing about dragonborn and nothing about tabaxi probably isn't gonna just be like "Well, dragons are dangerous, but cats are harmless". Someone might tentatively guesstimate that a dragonborn is more dangerous than a tabaxi, but probably isn't gonna be a lot more wary of one than of the other.
Realistic societal attitudes towards specific peoples vary regionally based on history and current events. Humans of one country might well hate humans from a neighboring country more than they hate orcs. Like, if raiders from Flarkland routinely pillage Blarkland, Blarks probably wind up disliking the Flarks a lot. Whereas, if orcs regularly raid Flarkland and give Flarks a lot of trouble, most Blarks might like the orcs! Sure, there was an incident a while back where some orcs ate a Blarkish diplomat, and some folks in Blarkland are still fairly resentful about it, but ultimately an enemy of the Flarks is a friend of the Blarks.
These sorts of divisions get glossed over in generic fantasyland, where all of the governments are monarchies, everyone uses coins of the same weight made of the same 3 to 4 different metals, everyone speaks "Common", etc. If you don't strive to make your setting more diverse than that, the appeal of fantasy racism isn't that it serves setting verisimilitude; it's just a genre trope. Which, hey, fair enough, but let's call a spade a spade, in that case.
On the other hand, if you want something non-generic, it might be helpful to dump the usual elves, dwarves, and even humans. In that case, you might consider making a setting inhabited entirely by whatever weird non-standard races your players like. Plenty of space on the map for their homelands if you that's where you start from. And this will hopefully produce something original, if nothing else.
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2024-05-24, 03:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2011
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- Castle Sparrowcellar
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Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
One of my settings (mostly) did that. It had humans, mermen (male only), bird people, dragonborn, and genasi as playable races. No elves/dwarves/gnomes/etc.
It was also my first foray into scrapping Common as a language and having regional languages only. It had...eh...mixed results.
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2024-05-24, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Location
- Albuquerque, NM
Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
Heh, I've contemplated doing that. My homebrew world has 12 nations, and 12 unique dialects for them, but after a bit of mental gymnastics on how much work it would be to initiate international commerce - where you'd either need to know the language, or hire a translator... I ultimately decided that a "Common" trade tongue just works better all around. Especially since the players wouldn't be dealing with the headache of talking as NPCs.
I did keep the regional dialects though. It think it's a bit more fun for intrigue when the party all knows some esoteric language that no one else in the region does. (Plus it amps up the 'other' when you're talking 'foreign' and everyone is staring at you, thinking you're talking about them.)Trollbait extraordinaire
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2024-05-24, 10:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2019
Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
I run campaigns exclusively in the Forgotten Realms, and while I do allow species outside the PHB, the number of species are limited. No monstrous species from Volo's is a big one, and of course most species from another setting (MtG, Ravenloft, Eberron, Spelljammer, etc.) is excluded as well. But from a lore perspective, anything outside the PHB is exceedingly rare, and that is often reflected in the NPCs they come into contact with.
I've considered restricting the ability to play a more exotic species to a dice roll (say, rolling a nat 20) at the beginning of the campaign, but I'm not sure that's the best approach. I've also
dabbled with the idea of borrowing some mechanics for creating characters in the Realms such as those found in this D&D Beyond article. The idea would be to offer traditional character creation, but also incentivize the players to use the Chronicle to roll for their characters (including rolling or choosing from a short list of species) with the promise of a starting magic item or boon for doing so, allowing so many re-rolls in case they don't like a certain result. This way I can incentivize creating a character that would be statistically probable to live in the Realms.
But in general, yes, almost always my players lean towards the more rarer species and the party ends up looking like Guardians of the Galaxy instead of the Fellowship of the Ring.Last edited by schm0; 2024-05-24 at 10:22 AM.
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2024-05-24, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2024
Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
[QUOTE=Psyren;26008310]Right - or even if it is "stain of evil"/"streak of darkness", it's just enough to make them edgy or cool, like Wolverine in a bar, not forced to hide in a church like Nightcrawler.
Yet the logic of Nightcrawler hiding in a church works perfectly, and surprises no one.
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2024-05-24, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2024
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2024-05-24, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2024
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2024-05-24, 03:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2024-05-24, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
IMO the role of the PCs in-universe also matters.
Sure exotic races are rare, but are they rare among mercenaries? After all, "an outcast with uncommon abilities" has nothing to lose and everything to win from mercenary lifestyle. Are they rare among legends? Having an exotic race might make it easier to be remembered by generation of bards.
If your world is somewhat medieval, the simple fact that the PCs are wandering from a town to another is already enough for them to be weird/untrustworthy/probably-an-outlaw. And while some table roleplay that part, IME the same tables that ignore this whole "exotic races" also ignore this whole "the PCs are kind of weird even if they're humans". It's not that they don't care specifically about exotic race, it's that they're not interested in RPing the consequences of living on the fringe of the societal order.
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2024-05-25, 12:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
- Location
- Jacksonville, FL
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2024-05-25, 07:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2024-05-25, 09:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2022
Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
This has been my experience throughout my D&D play experience, which goes back to 1981.
Humans, have almost always been supposed to be the predominate race in most published campaign worlds, but it is not uncommon to find Adventuring Group rosters with no humans in it.
In a way, this phenomena makes a certain sense. If we look at jobs that are considered dangerous or have the patina of being socially undesirable, the individuals that take those jobs often lack social mobility, and belong to groups with less established political capital.
A member of a patrician family is likely not working in a Tyson Meatpacking plant as a line worker, for example.
If being a grubby adventurer in a human kingdom means living a life that is brutish and short, whom is constantly overcharged by Company store style shopkeeps, (2 sp for a loaf of hard bread, some hard boiled eggs, and greasy, preserved sausage for a days worth of rations), and in general the nobles and powerful will just ignore you, unless you might serve some purpose, or by some miracle you become powerful enough that the powerful can't ignore you.........then it stands to reason that most adventurers would probably come from groups that are not socially powerful...sometimes know as the downtrodden.Last edited by Blatant Beast; 2024-05-25 at 09:44 AM.
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2024-05-25, 12:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
The Noble background doesn't fit your point here. Nor does Acolyte, and nor does sage.
OK, you have covered Urchin, and probably Cirminal and maybe Charlatan backgrounds.
Soldier? Maybe, depends on whom the soldier served.
Sailor? No.
Knight? No.
Faction Agent? Probably not.
Enterntainer? Could go either way.
Outlander? Simply out doorsy doesn't make one downtrodden.
Folk Hero? OK, I can buy that as down trodden or at least from a lower run in society (as written)
Smuggler? (Salt Marsh) Maybe. You can argue that Smuggler and Thief overlap enough for a yes. But some smugglers are merchants who move illicit/tax avoiding goods on the side ...
Archeologist (ToA)? No.
Clan Crafter? Cloistered Scholar? Nope.
Scholar? nope.
Guild Artisan? Nope.
Far Traveler? Nope.
While I get what you are aiming for, the wide variety of backgrounds allows for a lot of social strata to be represented in the adventuring life choice.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2024-05-25 at 01:01 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2024-05-25, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2022
Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
Sure it does, Backgrounds are in the past. The last Emperor of China, eventually became a gardener if I remember correctly. His fortunes went from being a living Divine Representative, to being a prisoner, and then finally an assistant gardener in Beijing.
Ferdinand Marcos went into exile from the Philippines and moved to Hawaii, and did not have a large influence on his now host country.
I have family members that were academics in the Soviet Union, but they had to work what would be commonly termed "menial" jobs in the USA, until they received certifications that were recognized by the United States.
Being the child of the former Duke of Defense for the now defunct country of Tabaxistan, might still afford a PC some connections in Noble circles, but it amounts to maybe a dinner invitation or two, and is entirely consistent with the Background ability granted....you can use your past to set up meetings with people in a certain social circle.Last edited by Blatant Beast; 2024-05-25 at 01:23 PM.
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2024-05-25, 08:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
Just house-rule a charisma penalty whenever interacting with a species not common in the local community and be done with it.
Then players know the exact effect and as long as you communicate the common races in local community, and can make an informed decision when selecting character race. And a decision point as to if they should really let the human sorcerer/warlock open their trap when in dwarf/elf/orc-town.
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2024-05-25, 09:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
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Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
Eh,
I feel like that moves into the sidebar being superfluous from the outset though.
I mean, I have actually had these kinds of discussions with my playgroup for our Ravnica game.* We didn't need anyone to tell us to go with what makes sense or cover what was satisfactory for our play group. People who want to work orcs into Dragonlance will tend to figure that out on their own.
*The focus was half-elves, lizardfolk, and Dragonborn. We went with yes for lizardfolk and dragonborn because that is essentially Viashino, and no with half-elves because MTG doesn't seem to go for that. That being said, we went with half-elves being on the table for the reincarnation spell. We sorta accidentally brought back someone as a half-elf, I think the DM flavored it that our spell went strange because of the Simic lab we were in.
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I always read unusual as, doesn't exist on all or most worlds, not, considered lesser by civilized society.
The inclusion of Tieflings and Dragonborn was because of using FR as the default setting which they are fairly significant for. Gnomes, for that and having not made the initial jump to 4e. And half-orcs/half-elves because they have always occupied a strange spot in lore and being somewhat rare in the worlds they are in.Last edited by Witty Username; 2024-05-25 at 10:08 PM.
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2024-05-27, 07:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- The Land of Cleves
- Gender
Re: Exotic species aren't so exotic, eh?
Personally, one of the great many things that I disliked about 4th edition was their decision to make tieflings a standard race but eliminate gnomes. I was quite satisfied with 5th edition's decision to put both of them in the PHB, in the "less common races" section.
Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics