Class and Level Geekery II

[Wrecan]

The next time I make a version of this thread, I'm going to include a FAQ, and that's going into it.

[RAGE KING!]

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but Xykon's info needs to be updated. He's at least 20th level, with a Cha of at least 28.

i didnt look at the spoiler, but i just want to point out that xykon has a +4 level adjustment, did you consider that, or is it irrelevant?


Also, what total level are the oots?, nobody seems to have posted it, but my friend said they were all thirteenth level.

[Borris]

Look at the first page. All OotS PCs are listed as 13th-level. Well, technically, Belkar is only listed as level 12 or more because we don't have concrete proof that he's reached his 13th-level yet, but it's quite safe to assume he's at the same level as everyone else.

[Chronos]

The Fiendish Giant Octopus would be another Summon Monster VII spell. Does this tell us anything new about Redcloak? There's also some discussion in another thread that it seems to be much larger than the standard Large size for such a monster... Are there any Enlarge Monster-type spells which could make up the difference?

[Ithekro]

SoD spoiler question on Redcloak.

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What class would give Redcloak the ability to cast smite ("good" I assume) as he does when he gets the cloak all those years ago? All I could find was Blackguard, and that doesn't compute.

[Morty]

SoD spoiler question on Redcloak.

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What class would give Redcloak the ability to cast smite ("good" I assume) as he does when he gets the cloak all those years ago? All I could find was Blackguard, and that doesn't compute.

A cleric with Destruction domain.

[Gitman00]

i didnt look at the spoiler, but i just want to point out that xykon has a +4 level adjustment, did you consider that, or is it irrelevant?

Well, it's irrelevant as far as my post was concerned, but it's another piece of info that probably could be added to his "character sheet". He's still a 20th-level sorcerer; the level adjustment only refers to how much XP it takes for him to advance to his next level.

[Wrecan]

Look at the first page. All OotS PCs are listed as 13th-level. Well, technically, Belkar is only listed as level 12 or more because we don't have concrete proof that he's reached his 13th-level yet, but it's quite safe to assume he's at the same level as everyone else.

Belkar islisted as Ranger 12/Barbarian 1. That's a 13th level character.

[Chronos]

Shouldn't that be Ranger 11 / Barbarian 2? He switched to Brb when he turned 12th level, not 13th. Is there any evidence that he went back to ranger? From a metagaming point of view, by 11, he has his combat style mastery and most of his favored enemies, which leaves Belkar little incentive to stay in Ranger.

[Kurald Galain]

Some random additions:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0234.html - Roy has sufficient ranks in whatever the skill is that's used to identify poison.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0238.html - Elan has at least nine ranks in perform (string instruments), because that's required for him using the suggestion ability. Note that as written in the SRD, it indeed only works on one person.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0142.html - Nale knows either Silent Image or Prestidigitation.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html - Sabine has sufficient strength to carry both Thog and Nale at the same time.

In DCF, Yokyok is said to have the same stats and so forth as Belkar, except that he's a kobold.

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From one of the Dragon comics, both Haley and Elan have the Dodge feat. Additionally, Vaarsuvius has Maximize Spell.

Also from Dragon, Belkar "never bothers with that special attack crap", meaning he doesn't have feats related to disarming, tripping, grappling, or bull rushing.

And also from Dragon, Durkon has a dex penalty, and Vaarsuvius has ranks in decipher script, and does in fact NOT know the draconic language (unless there are several of those).

And finally, Belkar had a certain wand at some point, but it appears to have been confiscated by our friendly neighborhood lawyers. It does mean that Belkar has at least a few ranks in UMD.

[RMS Oceanic]

From strips 459 to 463, we see Redcloak turn undead four times. Since a Cleric can turn undead 3+Cha times per day, this proves his Charisma is at least 12, and probably higher from offscreen turnings.

In strip 458, Sabine was able to carry both Elan and Thog at once. Even if they were the minimum weights for their respective races, that adds up to 270 pounds, which requires a strength of 18 to carry as a heavy load. Thus, Sabine's strength is no less than 18.

Can we get these facts updated?

[Wrecan]

Some random additions:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0234.html - Roy has sufficient ranks in whatever the skill is that's used to identify poison.

No he doesn't. He didn't identify the poison. He just noted that Elan got hit with shuriken and suffered Con damage. That's not a Skill. It's just common sense.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0238.html - Elan has at least nine ranks in perform (string instruments), because that's required for him using the suggestion ability. Note that as written in the SRD, it indeed only works on one person.[/quote]
Or he cast a spell. Or he was just trying to manipulate people with the power of song (my guess).

[spoiler]From one of the Dragon comics, both Haley and Elan have the Dodge feat. Additionally, Vaarsuvius has Maximize Spell.[/quote]
It's uncleatr if that's the same continuity. I'm not adding stuff from the Dragon comics or the bonus material.

And finally, Belkar had a certain wand at some point, but it appears to have been confiscated by our friendly neighborhood lawyers. It does mean that Belkar has at least a few ranks in UMD.

What sort of wand?

[Porthos]

What sort of wand?

It was a Wand of Dispel Clothing (cost: 40,000 gp + shipping and handling).

[Chronos]

It was a Wand of Remove Clothing.

Well, since that's a homebrew spell, we don't know what class it is. Maybe it's on the ranger spell list, in a back-to-nature sort of way, in which case Belkar wouldn't need UMD.

Oh, and any comment on this?

A few other minor (non-spoiler points).

Roy has ranks in Profession: Goat herding, since it's something that someone might learn in lieu of Ride. I'd guess exactly two ranks, but we don't know that 1 semester = 1 rank.

Belkar's possesions include a red crayon or two. Elan had one in that strip, too, but he may have borrowed it from Belkar, or it may have gotten confiscated in Cliffport.

Vaarsuvius knows the Draconic language, since e can read the runes.

Someone other than Elan apparently has the Heal skill, to put his arm in a sling. But nobody other than Durkon or Elan has the skill, or they would have tried to use first aid on Elan. So we can conclude that Durkon has the Heal skill.

[Gefangnis]

No, charging is something anybody can do. Roy wouldn't have a charge feat.

And he clearly doesn't have Spirited Charge.

[Kurald Galain]

No he doesn't. He didn't identify the poison. He just noted that Elan got hit with shuriken and suffered Con damage. That's not a Skill. It's just common sense.

No, in the comic he's clearly looking at the shuriken and stating what kind of poison it is.

Or he cast a spell. Or he was just trying to manipulate people with the power of song (my guess).

Trying to manipulate people with the power of song is precisely what the Bard's suggestion ability is.

[Chronos]

And if he was using the Suggestion bardic music ability, then it makes the fact that exactly one person followed him a lot funnier (though I hadn't noticed it before; thanks, Kurald). And it's not exactly anything implausible we're trying to prove, here: He'd have to be even more incompetent than he is to not have one maxed-out Perform skill. So I would set the bar of necessary evidence pretty low, in this case.

[Wrecan]

No, in the comic he's clearly looking at the shuriken and stating what kind of poison it is.

No, he isn't/ He's just confirming goop on the shuriken. AT any rate, there is no mechanic for recognizing poison, is even were I to accept that Roy had the skill to recognize poison, I wouldn't know what skill that is. As far as we know, everybody can recognize poison unskille din the OOTSiverse.

Trying to manipulate people with the power of song is precisely what the Bard's suggestion ability is.

No it's not. Bards can use suggestions limited times per day. It's a spell-like ability, not an extraordinary one. Elan could have been using his ability. He could have been casting a spell. He could have hoped that his music, unaided, would lead everyone to safety.

I agree that it would be bizarre for Elan not to have 9 or more ranks in Perform (stringed instruments). But this is not the evidence for it.

[Wrecan]

Well, since that's a homebrew spell, we don't know what class it is. Maybe it's on the ranger spell list, in a back-to-nature sort of way, in which case Belkar wouldn't need UMD.

Oh, and any comment on this?

• There's no evidence that Roy has skill sin Got-herding just because he took a class in it.
• It could have been Elan's crayon, which would have been confiscated from him when he and Nale switched. We haven't seen it since the twin-switch. I had it on Elan or Belkar's possession since the switch.
• I will put Draconic on V's language list. Good catch!
• I agree Durkon has heal (although I wonder why Elan didn't just get a cure spell for that sprain). Another good catch.

[Chrismith]

In DCF, Yokyok is said to have the same stats and so forth as Belkar, except that he's a kobold.

This has been mentioned a couple times now, so I thought I would address it. What the Giant said in the DCF commentary was that the perfect enemy for Belkar would be someone exactly like him -- in terms of personality, not stats. We know that he was the LG's tracker, meaning that he was most likely (but not necessarily) a ranger, but this doesn't prove that his stats are the same as Belkar's. In fact, since we see him using a different weapon (looks like a short sword) and using a feat that Belkar hasn't displayed (combat reflexes), it seems pretty obvious that his stats are different.

[Chronos]

There's no evidence that Roy has skill sin Got-herding just because he took a class in it.

The class isn't the evidence, in itself. It's the fact that he had a choice between learning Ride or Goat-Herding. We know that Ride is a skill, so something that would take the place of Ride would also be a skill (however it was learned).

[RMS Oceanic]

Um, no he didn't. It never says "It was riding or Goat Herding". Besides, he has ranks in Ride, so your choice theory is moot.

[Kurald Galain]

I will put Draconic on V's language list. Good catch!

Actually it does not follow from that strip that V knows draconic. S/he could just as easily have made a decipher script roll (which, after all, is a class skill for wizards).

[Wrecan]

Oooh. Another good point. Right. Draconic is coming back off.

[dark-sage 95]

I've just skimmed through these stats so forgive me if i repeted something already said but in case no ones noticed yet in comic #2 elan says "skill points i love my six new skill points" bards get 6+int mod skill points so his int would have to be 10 or 11

[Spiryt]

I've just skimmed through these stats so forgive me if i repeted something already said but in case no ones noticed yet in comic #2 elan says "skill points i love my six new skill points" bards get 6+int mod skill points so his int would have to be 10 or 11

He's a human. It means 8-9 Int.

Beside's it was discussed already, and I though it was some kind of mistake, beacuse they'r anyway didn't go up a level. Just were converted to 3.5

[dark-sage 95]

dang i forgot about that
good point tho

[Wrecan]

That is totally going into the FAQ in the next iteration of this thread!

[Megatron]

I noticed some people mentioning the possibility that the PCs' stats have increased since #1... however, as far as I can see they've only gone up one level and it was from 12 to 13. There's no stat gain there.

Unless, of course the idea is that they were 11 at the beginning and another level was gained somewhere after the "Ding" episode?

[Kurald Galain]

They've gained three levels, in fact. One in the "up a level, down a level" episode in the middle of Dorukan's dungeon. One in the "ding" episode at the end of it. And one during the Return of the Linear Guild plot.