scout feats

[Stycotl]

Rush (General)
You are a fearsome guerilla warrior, capable of overwhelming a foe’s defenses and breaking his offensive momentum with the perfect combination of brutal precision and relentless speed.
Prerequisites: Dexterity 15, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Skirmish Class Feature, base attack bonus +5
Effect: Any foe that takes damage from your Skirmish attack must make a successful Fortitude save (DC is Dexterity based), or become checked (can no longer move for the rest of this round, as if they had used up all of their move) until the beginning of your next turn. This ability can apply to only one attack per turn.

EDIT: nerfed original feat, added new feat

Overwhelming Rush (General)
You have achieved such a devastating technique with your skirmish assaults that you are capable of rendering foes incapable of any reaction.
Prerequisites: Dexterity 15, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Rush, Skirmish Class Feature, base attack bonus +15
Effect: Any foe that takes damage from your Skirmish attack must make a successful Fortitude save (DC is Dexterity based), or become dazed (can take no actions, but does not suffer an AC penalty) until the beginning of your next turn. Further, even if the creature makes its saving throw, it is still considered checked for the duration. This ability can apply to only one attack per turn.

another fairly straightforward pair of feats. but i would like to have some feedback.

thanks, aaron out.

[Admiral Squish]

Checked? Is that something from an old system?

[Stycotl]

from the srd, conditions summary index:

Checked
Prevented from achieving forward motion by an applied force, such as wind. Checked creatures on the ground merely stop. Checked flying creatures move back a distance specified in the description of the effect.

note that this feat gives a reflex partial save, meaning improved evasion affects it.

[Admiral Squish]

Ahh. Must have missed it. I was going to say the feat requirements were too steep, but then I realized most scouts should be getting that chain anyways.
Straight scout this available at level... 12. I haven't played that area much, but I think it seems to fit the power level.
Basically: Thumbs up!

[Stycotl]

thank you much. i like scouts quite a bit, as evidenced by a large portion of my homebrew and quite a few of my characters.

[Rockphed]

Does a rogue(or other person with evasion) who makes the save avoid the checked-ness?

[Stycotl]

yep, with evasion: make save, no check. with imp evasion, fail save, still only checked.

EDIT: now that it is a fort save, not a reflex, it is mettle and improved mettle that affect it, not evasion.

[Kizara]

It doesn't really make sense.

You attack them alot, so they lose their turn? That's kinda random.

And it shouldn't be a Reflex save. It would ethier be a Fortitude save to withstand the intensity of the attack or a Will save to keep yourself from being mentally overwhelmed by it.

There's also no precedent. I can't think of any feat or offensive effect that makes someone lose their turn/actions.

Perhaps re-construct this to give a Daze effect if they fail a Fort save.

[Stycotl]

i specifically didn't want a daze or similar effect. i don't care whether there is precedent or not. using that qualifier, everything outside of core should be dumped.

the feat is based on real-world combat, with game mechanics to back it up, not based on game mechanics with real-world combat to back it up. see the diff?

and the save? i'm still sitting on the fence there, so i could be persuaded either way. i originally had a fort save, but will also kind of works. i liked reflex for a few reasons though. one, in this scenario, it really does come down to who can act/react the fastest. i see an experienced rogue as more capable here than an experienced wizard. honestly i see an experienced fighter (professional soldier in mind) as the most capabl, but wizards wanted to go ahead and give them a poor reflex save. not my idea...

[jagadaishio]

The feat is crazy unbalanced. What this feat gives is the ability to daze an opponent and infinite number of times per encounter, every time an attack hits.

Dazed

The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC.

A dazed condition typically lasts 1 round.

Bringing that feat into the mix for scouts really puts any other martial class to shame, simply because they can make their opponent simply stand there the entire time that they're killing them. If you want to keep the flavor and some of the abilities, I would make it so that they only risk this dazed/checked condition only when hit by a skirmish attack while flat-footed. That seems to fit the idea of being halted through shock and awe a lot more nicely than someone with a short bow taking 10 steps around you in a circle, slowly turning you into a pin cushion, as you find yourself unable to move from where you're standing.

[Zeta Kai]

I agree that this is unbalanced, but it could be easily fixed by adding a limit, such "can only be used once per opponent per encounter" or even simply "can only be used once per encounter", depending on how limiting you wish to be.

[Stycotl]

hmm, i can understand that. i am not going to use flat-footed as the determining factor though, because that is too limiting. i will think of another way to impement it.

what if the condition were one attack per round, whether standard attack or full attack? does that sound unreasonable?

also, to give the fighter-types a boost here, do you guys think it better if i switch it to a fort save instead of a reflex?

[jagadaishio]

A scout can, excluding advanced feats from the Spring Attack tree, only make one attack per round when skirmishing because of their requirement to make a move before they can apply skirmish bonuses. For that reason, making it usable once per round would very, very close to the same thing as putting no limit on it at all.

[Roderick_BR]

Maybe make it checked if they fail the save, and no additional effect if they do pass it, and no effect from improved evasion (it's not a damage dealing effect).
In a worst case scenario, it's like a bullrush-based ability, but you don't run the risk of starting a lock-sequence.

[Siosilvar]

Maybe make it checked if they fail the save, and no additional effect if they do pass it, and no effect from improved evasion (it's not a damage dealing effect).
In a worst case scenario, it's like a bullrush-based ability, but you don't run the risk of starting a lock-sequence.

As an alternative to that, using this feat could cause no damage, or maybe be a 1/encounter or 1/minute thing.

[Eurus]

Hmm... From what you describe it as, it sounds like a sudden, guerrilla-type thing. Maybe if you could only use it on a flat-footed foe?

[Stycotl]

A scout can, excluding advanced feats from the Spring Attack tree, only make one attack per round when skirmishing because of their requirement to make a move before they can apply skirmish bonuses. For that reason, making it usable once per round would very, very close to the same thing as putting no limit on it at all.

true, but what percentage of scouts do not take some form of feat that allows them to make multiple attacks per round even on a skirmish? not very many that i have seen. so i don't consider this as small of a cut as you do.

Hmm... From what you describe it as, it sounds like a sudden, guerrilla-type thing. Maybe if you could only use it on a flat-footed foe?

already stated that i am not going to make it usable only against flat-footed foes.

Maybe make it checked if they fail the save, and no additional effect if they do pass it, and no effect from improved evasion (it's not a damage dealing effect).
In a worst case scenario, it's like a bullrush-based ability, but you don't run the risk of starting a lock-sequence.

As an alternative to that, using this feat could cause no damage, or maybe be a 1/encounter or 1/minute thing.

interesting points.

i think i have a solution in mind. check the op for the edit.

EDIT: thanks for the input, fellow playgrounders.