Roy and The Cleric and the Memory

[DoranLiadon]

Wouldn't the Cleric have seen this coming? I mean, if he sees everything he saw this coming and has a plan for it, right?

[David Argall]

We know the Oracle is not a cleric, so could you explain who and what you are referring to? Preferably in some detail?

[Kish]

Wouldn't the Cleric have seen this coming? I mean, if he sees everything he saw this coming and has a plan for it, right?

There's a difference between being able to see the future and being omniscient. For that matter, there's also a difference between being omniscient and being infallible. I'd be wary of overcomplicating things.

[NerfTW]

He probably didn't bother to check. Most likely he only checks into his own future, no reason to worry about others unless they're in his tower.

[Gitman00]

We know the Oracle is not a cleric, so could you explain who and what you are referring to? Preferably in some detail?

Please don't eat the pixies.

[LuisDantas]

I assume this thread is about the situation at the end of strip 572.

Yes, from past evidence it is only fair to extrapolate that the Oracle does indeed know that Roy is unaffected by the memory charm.

It is possible that ghosts are in fact immune to the charm, and therefore the Oracle could not avoid that end result.

But an alternate explanation, one that I favor, is that the Oracle wanted it that way. We know from their previous interaction that Oracle to help the OotS in stopping Xykon. True, he probably does not actually like individual members (Roy, perhaps Durkon, definitely Belkar) but he not pleased at all when Roy missed the oportunity to find out that Xykon was heading to Azure City.

Besides, as he himself had just said, Oracle always has just the right wand at hand (emphasis mine), supposedly because he knows the future and prepares accordingly. He could easily have produced a wand of forgetfulness or whatnot if he saw fit to use one. But he chose instead to dismiss Roy, in a way that was perhaps carefully chosen to allow him to bypass the memory charm.

As for why, I can only guess. Maybe Haley, Celia and Belkar are about to run into Julia, and by virtue of being close to the Greenhilt Greatsword she will be capable of seeing and hearing Roy's ghost.

[Scalenex]

Roy's memory is short lived. I'm not normally a fan of these spoiler tags, but I seem to be unable to figure out how to use them. What follows below is theoretically a SPOILER




Roy will forget everything else but the message when he is Raised. In fact, he's likely to forget meeting his family and the various stuff he scryed on. Eugene hinted that him staying informed would affect nothing. It could be his lack of faith in his son or it could be that he knows Roy will forget all he learned in the afterlife until he dies again.

[woc33]

Roy's memory is short lived. I'm not normally a fan of these spoiler tags, but I seem to be unable to figure out how to use them. What follows below is theoretically a SPOILER




Roy will forget everything else but the message when he is Raised. In fact, he's likely to forget meeting his family and the various stuff he scryed on. Eugene hinted that him staying informed would affect nothing. It could be his lack of faith in his son or it could be that he knows Roy will forget all he learned in the afterlife until he dies again.

Remember when Roy died? There was this guy that was a regular there... (Comic 487) Since he remembered what happened the last time he was there we can safely assume that Roy too would remember his "afterlife experience".

[Akal Saris]

Not necessarily. He might forget the experience until he is once again dead and in heaven, except for some vaguely happy memories perhaps.

It's what I would rule if I were the DM anyhow, unless there were some critical plot points (like the scene Roy just witnessed possibly).

[Kato]

Hm....I wondered as well....
There are two scenarios I came up with...
1) The oracle is not all-knowing as it seemed (Maybe we overestimated him, or... I hardly dare to say- the Giant made mistake.) So Roy will keep his memory after all, and maybe it will be of some use, maybe even reverting the other prophecy regarding B's death.
2) The oracle wanted to trick Roy by lying, though it's hard to come up with a good explanation why he should.

The third was mainly mentioned here, and I'd conclude it like that.
3) Once Roy is resurrected the charm works and he will forget the part, the oracle hasn't told him.

[Scalenex]

Remember when Roy died? There was this guy that was a regular there... (Comic 487) Since he remembered what happened the last time he was there we can safely assume that Roy too would remember his "afterlife experience".

I just said he'd forget it until he died again. The guy who was a regular was dead so had all his afterlife memories restored.

Theory in Summation: When you are dead you remember your life and your previous afterlife experiences. When you are brought back your forget your afterlife experiences until you are back in the afterlife again, exception: barring those the Oracle hardwires in you.

[Ninja]

It is clear that the Oracle did it on purpose... as to what he wants to accomplish, that is the mystery..... maybe he will tell all he learned to his dad and when he is raised, if he forgets it, his dad will come and remind him ( in some cryptic maner )...

[Jaltum]

Roy says, "The kobold didn't bother to look into the future to make sure."

One possible theory is, the kobold didn't bother to look into the future to make sure.

[Kato]

It is clear that the Oracle did it on purpose... as to what he wants to accomplish, that is the mystery..... maybe he will tell all he learned to his dad and when he is raised, if he forgets it, his dad will come and remind him ( in some cryptic maner )...

Why is it clear? We may assume even the oracle is not perfect and all planning...

[SPoD]

Roy says, "The kobold didn't bother to look into the future to make sure."

One possible theory is, the kobold didn't bother to look into the future to make sure.

Well, now, that's just silly. Going by what the comic actually says? Preposterous. We'll have none of that around here. Off you go.

[SteveMB]

Hm....I wondered as well....
There are two scenarios I came up with...
1) The oracle is not all-knowing as it seemed (Maybe we overestimated him, or... I hardly dare to say- the Giant made mistake.) So Roy will keep his memory after all, and maybe it will be of some use, maybe even reverting the other prophecy regarding B's death.
2) The oracle wanted to trick Roy by lying, though it's hard to come up with a good explanation why he should.

The third was mainly mentioned here, and I'd conclude it like that.
3) Once Roy is resurrected the charm works and he will forget the part, the oracle hasn't told him.

Or the Oracle looked into the future, found that Roy would remember, and let the future happen as foreseen (just as the Oracle didn't prevent Belkar from going stabitty-stabbity, but did arrange to be raised immediately afterwards).

[David Argall]

Spoiler

Show

An alternate here would be that Roy remembers when he revives, but he will shortly thereafter walk thru the memory barrier and will then forget, which would make the Oracle letter perfect.

[Ninja]

Well, now, that's just silly. Going by what the comic actually says? Preposterous. We'll have none of that around here. Off you go.

lol i've gotta sig this....