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2009-06-01, 10:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
X will save his phylactery by blasting blackwing. This will give V and O'Chul a chance to escape. Also, I bet V has a feather fall or a polymorph to get them out of this pickle.
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2009-06-01, 10:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Wow, V is still on his feet? He's tougher than I thought.
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2009-06-01, 10:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Porthos; 2009-06-01 at 10:09 PM.
Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
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No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb
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2009-06-01, 10:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
It'd be more natural to suggest that the replenishment didn't survive the end of the splice. The replenishment was "due to the rejuvenating effects of the splice," which could translate in comic terms into "while you look like a black-robed badass." In fact, the replenishment itself might be akin to a "spell with an ongoing duration," which would end when the splice does.
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2009-06-01, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Irony of power -
Four words: "Blackwing, destroy the phylactery!"
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2009-06-01, 10:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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2009-06-01, 10:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Not a bad thoguht actually, O'Chul destroys the Phyalactery, throwing something into the snarl with that much magic attached to it would probably cause some kind of light show on impact, everyone gets distracted, V and O'Chul jump down with V using Feather Fall on them both.
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2009-06-01, 10:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
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2009-06-01, 10:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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2009-06-01, 10:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- Nowere and everywere.
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Well im not sure but couldnt they get blackwing to fly out with the necklace (Cant spell phlactry or whatever.) out to the pit and drop it in?
Great Avatar created by Ceika. Thank you.
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2009-06-01, 10:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-06-01, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
No...you're just assuming that when his slots got refreshed, he chose to fiull them up with the same spells. Furthermore, you are assuming he didn't cast any such spell off camera.
You are, in fact, just choosing an explanation - and not even a likely explanantion - that fits in with your idea of how things should have gone down (If I cast Soul Splice, it'll simply refresh the days spells as if they'd never been cast) instead of how it appears to be (When I cast Soul Splice, it'll rejuvenate me as if I'd spent an entire night rested and so allow me to immediately imprint the magical matrices as if I'd studied....).
EJL
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2009-06-01, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
I'm kind of thinking:
Spoiler
Blackwing takes the phylactery and hovers over the rift for a stand-off. The only potion for Xykon that keeps him from doing something that may well seal his doom is to kill O-Chul. Kill V or Blackwing, and the phylactery drops into the rift.
Not really sure how to end the stand-off though. Resistance attack? Ala James Bond fight toward the end when many nameless commandos die?
I gave up fighting, and stabbing and bludgeoning and stealing and bar-brawls and wenches . . . and it was the worst 10 rounds of my life - Jerry the Country & Western Bard.
WHY ISN'T HE JOLLY???
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2009-06-01, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- Xykon's plot armour
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2009-06-01, 10:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
I'd like to point out something I've noticed people saying. People are acting like dropping Xykon's Phylactery in the rift would kill him. As far as I am aware, Xykon's soul is only confined in the Phylactery when his body has been destroyed. While it would be a tremendous loss for him to lose his Phylactery, it will not instantly kill him.
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2009-06-01, 10:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
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2009-06-01, 10:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Seems to me if the rejuvenating effects of the splice was a temporary thing, then this should've been highlighted with V regaining his semi-deranged/dead looks. While this little blip doesn't bother me too much, I do agree with JeptCloak, plot hole.
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2009-06-01, 10:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Serious question.
If it's such a big plot hole, why aren't more people complaining?
Sure you're going to have some people join you on your interpretation of events (as Warrior Tribble just chimed in). But scanning this thread it sure doesn't look like anything approaching a majority of readers.
Quite simply, neither you nor I know whether or not people (never mind "most" people) think this a plot hole. Or in fact, even considered the point when they read the strip.
All either of us can really say is this:
It didn't work for you (and you think it is a plot hole)
and
I did work for me (and I don't think it is a plot hole)
Sure you can explain why you think it is a plot hole, and I can explain why I think it isn't (I just think he didn't memorize a new fly spell, that's all). But when it comes right down to it, this is just another example of the famous phrase two equally intelligent people can look at the same set of facts, and come up with two different, and equally correct, conclusions.
Art is especially notorious for holding to this standard.Last edited by Porthos; 2009-06-01 at 10:34 PM.
Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
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__________________________
No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb
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2009-06-01, 10:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
O-Chul is smarter than he looks, he snatched the phylactery and V instead of attacking Kykon, ANd he figured out how to destroy it. Now THAT is an epic Paladin hero! Miko, if you ever get raised, you'd better learn from him!
Though destroying the Phylactery might not necessarily destroy Xykon. I can't remember the rules on that right now. It sounds too soon to do him in, anyway. Unless Redcloak takes over, which many of us would be glad to see. (Xykon is getting insufferable.)
"Roach killer!" Heh! I must admit the demon roaches are funny sometimes. Still, they're evil demons and I can't wait to see them all wiped out. (Or returned to the Abyss, I guess.)
I was surprised to see the raven familiar back. Will it help? Given how much it seemed to resent V, it's not certain.
In any case, it still seems that O-Chul and V are doomed, unless MitD finally breaks out and does- ANYTHING. Seriously, I'm tired of the box gig. Even the tea party was more fun. C'mon, MitD, go!!Last edited by Sijo; 2009-06-01 at 10:39 PM.
Opinions are like butts- everybody has got one, but nobody thinks theirs stinks.
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2009-06-01, 10:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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- Tucson, AZ
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
It's the way I read it, too, and at least three other people before me. Maybe we're not the ones making the silly assumptions.
And you might want to check your definitions- I don't think "plot hole" is defined as "an alternative reading of a text."
Also, I'm not sure V's Flight spell lasts the ~30 minutes it's been since the pre-splice flight when fighting against the ABD.
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2009-06-01, 10:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- In his throne room.
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Another entirely sensible reading is that, even if the replenishing of his spell slots included another fly or overland flight, that those extra replenished spells went the way of the dodo once the splice broke. Seems only fair that once you lose the whole splice, you lose any and all benefits that came with it.
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2009-06-01, 10:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
As far as I know, the rules state that Xykon's soul is in his body, and then "snaps" back to the phylactery when he is destroyed. The comic supports this; Xykon's Phylactery talks the one time he is destroyed (in the early strips, around 110, I think) is completely silent otherwise, even when Redcloak is nowhere near Xykon and being able to talk through the Phylactery would be useful (during the battle of Azure City, for example). So, if we assume Xykon's soul is "speaking" though the Phlactery, his soul has only ever been it when he didn't have a body.
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2009-06-01, 10:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
My character's probably an exception to this rule.
SpoilerI'm running a scholarly wizard who completely dumped Wisdom... he's pretty much the absent-minded professor type. What I realized, though, is that my owl familiar's smarter than the fighter and much wiser than my wizard. So while my wizard's forgetting to prepare useful spells for the day or busy counting the dragon's scales, his familiar's always there to remind him to prepare Unluck and getting him to pay attention to the fight, and that now might be a good time to actually cast Unluck, rather than Arcane Sight because he really wants to see if that interesting portrait in the dragon's hoard is magical.
But that neither's here nor there. I just hope Blackwing can do the job without getting eaten by the Snarl.
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2009-06-01, 10:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
It's not a plot hole. You just think it is.
V was already flying when the ABD came along, hence already had a flight spell going. We've seen no fly spell since then, so the one in effect the whole time was V's assumedly.
No chance of losing after all.
And if the Flight spell was the sorcerors...he didn't need to devote any specific slot to it at all. If he needed it again, he'd just get the sorceror to cast it.
The splice "replenished" his spell slots, so by a sensible reading he should have his fly spell back, even if he had only prepared one.
Now, sure, you can invent ways around this, just like people tried to claim Xykon had an unseen rod of maximising, or that some unknown character who exited the story thereafter cast Xykon's invisibility.
It's just these explanations are lame, and if you need to invent bizarre explanations like this then it's probably not a very well executed story.
If you want to believe that Rich wrote the story intending the replenishing to mean "you will be able to look over your spells and pick which ones you want then replenish them" (all offpanel, followed by V madly laughing), then fine, but let's not suggest it's the sensible reading as opposed to you reaching for answers.
EJL
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2009-06-01, 10:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
"Kodai-san... prepare to fire the Wave Motion Gun!"
Blackwing won't do it for V. Blackwing will do it for O-Chul.
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2009-06-01, 10:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- mother of all saints
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
It's obvious in the extreme, but I LOVE how unpredictable The Giant can be...
I'm offering...
60% odds on MitD being being deboxed. (He's hinted strongly at it, and it's been about 600 strips. This joke is wearing quite thin.)
20% chance of Blackwing destroying the phylactery, then getting eaten by the Snarl, with V being completely indifferent (twould be funny, but a tad predictable.)
50% chance of V dying. (The jury's out.)
75% chance of O'Chul dying. (It seems INCREDIBLY obvious. I can't imagine The Giant resisting the temptation. I'd love it, but we'll see...)Avatar by Kris on a Stick
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2009-06-01, 10:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- Xykon's plot armour
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2009-06-01, 10:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Why would it be disappointing? Destroying a phylactery doesn't destroy a lich, it only makes him mortal again. It actually takes Xykon's plan, which was undertaken out of boredom, and gives him a more desperate, legitimate reason for pursuing it to the end.
It will take Xykon's half-hearted villainy and likely turn it up to 11, just because Xykon no longer has the "ace in the hole" of guaranteed resurrection, and so cannot afford to toy with his enemies.
But that's just how I'd read his motivations and likely consequences of the destruction of his phylactery.
And, of course, none of this takes into account the fact thatSpoilerThe Plan is really Redcloak's and the Dark One's, and may survive Xykon's destruction, especially now that Redcloak is beginning to see some hope for goblin society becoming a reality.
Peace OutDrew
This is for everyone who squints hard at stuff in the hope they'll spontaneously develop telekinesis.
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2009-06-01, 10:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
So... no odds on Blackwing refusing, destroying the phylactery and not dying, or anything less specific? While all the other choices are cut and dry "it's either this, or it isn't this" options, the Blackwing bet is... well, a lot more specific (to fit in with the rest, it would have to be something like "Blackwing destroys the Phylactery.)
EDIT: I'm just saying, it's a 20% chance of that specific scenario, but no odds for which specific situation that isn't exactly the one you predicted.Last edited by Milskidasith; 2009-06-01 at 10:51 PM.
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2009-06-01, 10:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
Coming Later: The Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes
__________________________
No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb