Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana Combo

[memnarch]

Oh hey, that's a flying tree.

[The_Shaman]

I feel a storm coming... Does Misho actually believe what he's saying, or is he just trying to push Marena's buttons and see how she reacts?

[Eco-Mono]

I feel a storm coming... Does Misho actually believe what he's saying, or is he just trying to push Marena's buttons and see how she reacts?

I think he has ulterior motives, but that doesn't mean he isn't being at least partially honest.

[golentan]

Still, that was pretty much guaranteed to push her into serious, serious violence.

That may be the single most painful thing she could hear at this stage. Mostly 'cuz it rings uncomfortably true...

[ZeroNumerous]

I think he has ulterior motives, but that doesn't mean he isn't being at least partially honest.

By "partially" you mean "completely".

Marena, by trying to one-up her mother, is acting in the exact vein of her mother. Except Marena is reacting to the one-up, rather than proactively one-upping her mother then off-handedly rubbing her face in it.

[The_Shaman]

I don't think we know enough about either (mommy, at least), but I think "completely" is quite a stretch. Sure, Marena is competitive, she has some mommy issues and she can be quite manipulative, but that's like saying everyone with manipulation 4+ is the same.

[spectralphoenix]

Yeah, well, that's why the Unconquered Sun gave Solars perfect defenses.

I'm thinking either Marena is going to need to sacrifice her desire to outdo her mother or else Marena hasn't really passed the Trial of Humility and this is Misho trying to get her to accept her mother's role in her life.

Edit: Also, I like "Keychain of Creation 4: Deathknight Needs Hug Badly?" for the next thread title.

[The_Shaman]

Maybe, but I can't help thinking "yeah, like all solar theurges are, if anything, humble and never want to become more powerful when faced with adversity they can't overcome ;) "

Edit: Deathknight needs hug sounds good, although I liked "Abominations Against Creation Needs A Hug" more.

[golentan]

I prefer "Deathknight needs hug badly."

It's punchier, it hits the character who needs it most, and it's more technically accurate.

There are a lot of Anathema in the core cast, but not so much with actual abominations against creation itself rather than the Immaculate Order's philosophies. Just the deathknight.

[spectralphoenix]

Maybe, but I can't help thinking "yeah, like all solar theurges are, if anything, humble and never want to become more powerful when faced with adversity they can't overcome ;) "

Edit: Deathknight needs hug sounds good, although I liked "Abominations Against Creation Needs A Hug" more.

Nothing says a sorcerer can't go right back to being a hubristic, craven, incurious homebody once he initiates. But everyone still has to pass their trials and master their pride once. It seems to me like Marena's issues with her mother are at least in part because she never learned to deal with her pride.

Now it's certainly possible that Marena has already passed the Trial of Humility and is backsliding (perhaps when she accepted the arranged marriage and stopped fighting her mother before she exalted.) But on the other hand, if Misho was trying to put her through the Trial of Humility by forcing her to confront her relationship with her Aria, I don't think he would tell her up front.

[The_Shaman]

Well, he seems to be pretty honest about it if that's what he wants to do. On the other hand, he already told her, and she admitted, that she wants to study magic to one-up mommy. She didn't flip out too much then, it's a little weird to bring it up now. Ok, it could make sense in the way that she's now at her emotional worst, so if she can take it now she can take it anytime, but it's still a stretch imo.

[The Rose Dragon]

I prefer "Deathknight needs hug badly."

I don't think Secret qualifies as a Deathknight, though. Not all Abyssals earn the title, you see. You need to go through training and indoctrination to become one, and I don't believe Secret would actually succeed in those.

[Ganurath]

In light of the most recent update, I'm rather fond of calling the new thread "Now He's Only Twice Radiant Misho" due to him saying all sorts of silly things to Marena.

[lord_khaine]

In light of the most recent update, I'm rather fond of calling the new thread "Now He's Only Twice Radiant Misho" due to him saying all sorts of silly things to Marena.

I disagree, i do belive most of the things have been said on purpose.

[Ganurath]

There's something to be said for presentation, though.

[Jerthanis]

I don't think Secret qualifies as a Deathknight, though. Not all Abyssals earn the title, you see. You need to go through training and indoctrination to become one, and I don't believe Secret would actually succeed in those.

I'm pretty sure Deathknight is just a title, like Lawgiver for Solars.

While an individual Solar might not actually reside in a position of power in a judicial/legislative sense, it's still accurate to call him a Lawgiver.

So while Secret may not be a Knight of Death at the moment, Deathknight still applies.

Anyway, I don't really like the idea of "Deathknight needs hug badly" as a thread title because I feel like if the at times creepy Secret adulation gets any more saccharine, I'll contract type 2 diabetes.

I'd suggest instead "Keychain 4: You could have told us that when we asked."

[The Rose Dragon]

I'm pretty sure Deathknight is just a title, like Lawgiver for Solars.

No, the Abyssals book states that deathknight is an earned title in the hierarchy of the Underworld.

[Jerthanis]

No, the Abyssals book states that deathknight is an earned title in the hierarchy of the Underworld.

So a non-Abyssal can be a Deathknight? I don't buy it. I'm away from my books, but don't many of their charms reference "the Deathknight does X, Y, or Z", does that mean those charms are off limits to rogue Abyssals or to Abyssals without a certain rank?

[The Rose Dragon]

So a non-Abyssal can be a Deathknight? I don't buy it. I'm away from my books, but don't many of their charms reference "the Deathknight does X, Y, or Z", does that mean those charms are off limits to rogue Abyssals or to Abyssals without a certain rank?

A non-Abyssal cannot be a deathknight. All deathknights are Abyssals, but not all Abyssals are deathknights. Page 39 on Abyssals book explains a bit more.

It is sort of like how the Sidereals are called Viziers. Not all Sidereals serve as Viziers, and a few of them do not even serve Yu-Shan. Yet the book will refer to them as Viziers, because that's what most of them are.

[Jerthanis]

It is sort of like how the Sidereals are called Viziers. Not all Sidereals serve as Viziers, and a few of them do not even serve Yu-Shan. Yet the book will refer to them as Viziers, because that's what most of them are.

Exactly, it's a title applied to them, whether it is accurate or not.

Misho is a Lawgiver, Marena is a Steward, What's-her-face is a Vizier and Secret is a Deathknight.

[Gez]

"Keychain of Creation IV: Four."

[The Rose Dragon]

Here, I'll just quote the relevant part from the book.

ELEVATION TO KNIGHTHOOD
When the Abyssal completes her training, she comes to the heart of her Deathlord master’s primary citadel for a final vigil and elevation ceremony. The vigil takes place in the hearthstone chamber of the Deathlord’s citadel manse. For 12 hours, the Abyssal meditates on her duty to the Deathlord and the Neverborn. At the end of the vigil, the Abyssal pledges his fealty to his Deathlord and formally accepts his sworn duty to see Creation fall into the Abyss. He then rises, at his Deathlord’s command, for his elevation ceremony. The ceremony can include anything from a somber baptism in funerary oils to an elaborate grand guignol marking the end of the Abyssal’s mortal sensibilities. When it ends, the Abyssal can finally call herself a deathknight. Her master bestows on her any weapons, armor or other resources deemed necessary and releases her at last to pursue her tainted destiny.

[WalkingTarget]

Here, I'll just quote the relevant part from the book.

Well, one could retort with page 16 of the main book.

Abyssal Exalted: Also called deathknights, these Exalts are the
champions of the Deathlords and their Neverborn masters.

This implies it's a generic term, like Lawgivers, etc.

[The Rose Dragon]

Well, one could retort with page 16 of the main book.

Good one. Didn't notice that before (mostly because I don't read the lexicons). I should probably stop quoting the books, though. They contradict themselves so often, it's difficult to use them as a definitive source (damn you, Carl Bowen!).

Then again, it could be that the main book isn't written for people who have extensive knowledge about the Abyssals. Most people probably aren't aware of the distinction between deathknight and Abyssal in terms of what they refer to, so the book did not make the distinction, either.

[Gez]

Here, I'll just quote the relevant part from the book.

ELEVATION TO KNIGHTHOOD
When the Abyssal completes her training, she comes to the heart of her Deathlord master’s primary citadel for a final vigil and elevation ceremony. The vigil takes place in the hearthstone chamber of the Deathlord’s citadel manse. For 12 hours, the Abyssal meditates on her duty to the Deathlord and the Neverborn. At the end of the vigil, the Abyssal pledges his fealty to his Deathlord and formally accepts his sworn duty to see Creation fall into the Abyss. He then rises, at his Deathlord’s command, for his elevation ceremony. The ceremony can include anything from a somber baptism in funerary oils to an elaborate grand guignol marking the end of the Abyssal’s mortal sensibilities. When it ends, the Abyssal can finally call herself a deathknight. Her master bestows on her any weapons, armor or other resources deemed necessary and releases her at last to pursue her tainted destiny.

[The Rose Dragon]

Like I said, I blame Carl Bowen.

((For those of you who are not in the know, Carl Bowen is the sole editor of all Exalted 2nd Edition books.))

[AmberVael]

I fail to understand why you have emphasized these pronouns.

[Gez]

Well I'm just going to assume it's canon that Abyssals get a temporary sex change during their Elevation Ceremony; presumably to help them shake off their former identity.

[WalkingTarget]

Then again, it could be that the main book isn't written for people who have extensive knowledge about the Abyssals. Most people probably aren't aware of the distinction between deathknight and Abyssal in terms of what they refer to, so the book did not make the distinction, either.

A few of the later references to "deathknight" in the book indicate that it's a term used in Creation for the Abyssals since it seems like an appropriate thing to call them. I think chalking it up to the guy writing the Abyssals book deciding to overload an existing term with a deeper backstory is a likely explanation (i.e. "deathknight" was initially just a generic term for the Abyssals, then when the MoEP was being written they inserted this whole ritual/specific rank aspect to it). I certainly never considered using the title for any Abyssal as wrong, but then, I've only ever actually played the game back in 1st Edition and it's been a while. I just picked up the main book as a free PDF when they were giving them away and did a quick search.

It's a roleplaying game book convention (in some circles at least) to not assume that the players/characters are all one gender and they'll alternate which pronoun they use. I barely notice the oddity anymore.

[Reynard]

Some passages are full of 'she' or 'her' when talking about the player or characters. Some are full of 'he' and 'his'.