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2010-07-20, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
/CONTEST CLOSED/
Can an e6 party defeat a Balor?
Can an e6 party defeat a Balor?
Can an e6 party defeat a Balor?
You can see the results and winners here
Recently in the World's Largest Dungeon thread, the following was posted:
In general I think Malakar is right, but then, playgrounders are a special breed of insane... I am offering a tantalizing prize* to anyone who can prove that it's possible. And by "prove" I mean "convince me."
*Tantalizing Prize Package:
Spoiler
If you convince me your party could do it using the rules below, you will receive the following awesome compensation
FIRST PERSON TO CONVINCE ME:
1) I will praise you, eloquently, for no less than 200 words right here on this forum. You can sig that ****.
2) If the praise won't fit in your sig, I will make a digital image of the praise and make it fit.
3) Next time I run a PbP you get first dibs on being a character, unless you're a douche.
4) The setting of my next game will feature a deity named after your username. UH HUH! And that deity will be the GOD OF HEROES. I am serious. There will be clerics of You.
5) Your awesomeness will be added to my sig, bumping the Tarrasque Poop Challenge. You bump the tarrasque. Sorry Eldarin! Eldariel! Whatever your name was!
SECOND (and later) PERSON(s) TO CONVINCE ME:(too many entrants)
You get the 200 words of praise and the digital image.
Seriously folks it is called tantalizing for a reason.
Okay, here are the rules:
1) Real party. You must use a party that uses the four traditional roles of warrior, skill monkey, arcane caster, and divine caster. You do not have to use Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, Cleric. If you want to use Warblade, Factotum, Psion, Druid (or whatever) - feel free.
2) E6. You must follow the E6 rules. All 4 of your characters are ECL6.
edit: originally I ruled out LA. Miskidasith however is the spokesman of the common man, and convinced me to relent. As per normal E6 rules you may use lower point buy to buy off up to +4 LA/RHD instead of character levels. However I require you use 6 of your 25 bonus feats on Ability Training and Ability Advancement to offset the point buy.
3) Feats. Your characters have earned the XP of a 20th level character. Although they cannot advance past 6th level, they can gain an extra feat for every 5,000 XP they earn past 6th level. Your characters have 35 bonus feats apiece plus whatever they would normally earn from levels 1-6. Remember you still need prereqs, and many feats are no longer attainable because 6th level char's can't make the prereqs.
4) Items. Your characters can each have up to 760,000 gp worth of gear, however, only gear built with with level 3 spells or lower is priced normally. Gear built with 4th level spells or higher OR CL7+ costs 20x the listed price because it takes 20 mages to enchant it. No scrolls or wands or 4th level or higher spells are allowed because those spells cannot be cast that quickly.
5) All 3.5 books are legal (unless in conflict with e6 rules) and so are the special e6 feats and other stuff from the e6 thread. I'll assume we're all mature adults here and no one has to be told that pun-pun doesn't count.
edit: revised definition of what is too cheesy has been posted below!
6) Explain. You must detail your party (as much or little detail on builds as you feel is important) and explain how your party can defeat a standard Balor. If you convince me, you win.
How Much Cheese is Too Much? In general, if your build simply uses a rules exploit by combining abilities from different sources, I consider it acceptable. If however it uses the same rules exploit over and over in a loop to gain much higher results than a simple use of the exploit could provide, You Have Climbed Pun-Pun's Staircase and your level of cheese is too much for this contest. The process is seen (for example) when using lucubration in a loop to gain 9th level spells at a low level, or by gaining taint over and over to power a character who is immune to the problems of taint. Practical optimization lasts all the way up to and upon the landing of Pun-Pun's staircase. But once foot is placed on step and railing is grasped in hand, You Have Climbed Pun-Pun's Staircase.
OTHER QUESTIONS AND THEIR ANSWERSSpoiler
The rules are as normal E6 (link in first post) plus the contest rules found in the first post. If something in the contest rules conflicts with normal E6, follow the contest rules. Specific trumps general, and this specific contest';s rules trump the general E6 rules in any case where the two differ.
It is probably against the spirit of E6 to count on having an artefact, but I'll allow it.
The closest parallel with a price is a continuous-use wondrous item with CL20. Looking at wondrous items that meet that description, the cheapest are about 76,000 gp. Multiply by 20 and you get a 1.52 million gp pricetag. So, if two of your four characters spend all of their WBL on the minor artefact, they could have it.
I tell you what Miski, if it's that big of a deal then go ahead and use up to +4 LA/RHD as per normal E6 rules. However you must dedicate 6 of the 35 bonus feats. You'll be using those on Ability Training for 3 statts and Ability Advancement for 3 stats to offset your lower point buy.
Also if your build wins you can expect some of the 200 words of praise to mock you for whining about the rules of a contest instead of trying to come up with a a clever entry that succeeds within the rules of the contest. But some of the 200 words will still be praise. Maybe even 100 or more!
No. All 3.5e D&D WotC-published books are allowed, nothing else.
FINAL SUBMISSION LIST AT TIME OF JUDGING:
*Starbuck II's Spellward Sniper + 3 Chumps
awaiting team details
*Lhurgyof's Humorously Named Four
DEAD. Give details on equipment and tactics if this is a serious submission.
*Dextercorvia's "Poor Man's Lucubration 9ths" plus "Krau Sigil Cleric/Wiz" plus two chumps
Status: Pun-Pun's Ladder Good theoretical builds but definitely hits the ladder
*aje8's Wraithstrike Nova plus 3 chumps
Status: Pending; convince me you can survive several rounds and repeat your nova, plus survive the death throes.
*Awa's Chump with Astral Bomb Skellies, plus three more chumps
Points for Cleverness But the only member of your party still in combat with the Balor is a sad skeleton on the Astral Plane.
Lhurgyof's Diplomancer plus three chumps
Status: Pending; Show me a Diplomacy score of 58 will allow you to decisively defeat the Balor.
*Crazedloon's "Krau Sigil 9ths" plus four chumps
Ninja'd; and Ladder'd Again, brilliant theoretical build, but it's on Pun-Pun's ladder
*Swordguy's Fight Smarter Not Harder (four chumps with a sphere of Gygax)
Status: Pending; looks like a complete plan.
*Aethernox's Four Go In, Three Come Out
Status: Pending Looks like a complete plan
*Awa's Revised Chumps with Skellies and Dust of Sneezing
Status: Pending; Looks like a complete plan
*Cespenar's Contract Killers (four Rog5/Assassin1's)
Status: Pending; You're assuming you can get your Hide and Move Silently to +58. Show me the feats & gear. You also assume you can boost your Fort save DC high enough that he will reliably (i..e more than half the time) fail with his +22 modifier. Show me the feats & gear.
*jseah's Abramelin and Three Chumps
Status: Pending; Looks like a complete plan
*Biffoniacus_Furious' "That's Not Tinkerbell!" plus three chumps
Status: Pending; Looks like a complete plan
*Tyndmyr's If You Like It Then You Shoulda Put an Orb on It
Status: Pending; Looks like a complete plan.
*Gaurd_Juris' The Saintly Order of Who Took My Vorpal Sword?
Status: Pending; Looks like a complete plan.
*Adumbration's Judge, Jury, and Executioner Plus One
Status: Pending; Looks like a complete plan
*Ingus' Bye-Bye Balor
Status: DEAD; Brilliant use of items but your plan ends with banishing the Balor which was specified earlier as not counting as a victory.[/I]
*The Shadowmind's Skeleton Crew
Status: DEAD; Operating war machines requires a trained-only Profession (Siege Engineer) check as per the DMG, which default MM skeletons cannot make. You didn't offer a party to show how your necromancer could correct this. Basically 4 chumps walk proudly up to the Balor with 10,000 skeletons and 2500 siege weapons; two rounds later the Balor is on his cell phone asking his demon friends if they have any use for a skeleton army lead by 4 zombies with a look of shock and surprise frozen on their faces.
*monkey3's I-Team and the Van
Status: Pending; Looks like a complete plan
*Lhurgyof's "It Worked for Arneson"
Status: DEAD; I love this submission but sadly I think the Balor would have them all dead before realising how cool the game is. So really the Balor is the one who misses out, but still.
*Eronai_Jantig's Fistful of Rays
Status: Pending; looks like a complete plan
*JeminiZero's "Guardian of Wings"
Status: Pending; Looks like a complete plan
*dextercorvia's The Naenhoon Effect
Status: Pending; looks like a complete planLast edited by Another_Poet; 2010-12-29 at 01:06 AM.
I just published my first novella, Lúnasa Days, a modern fantasy with a subtle, uncertain magic.
You can grab it on Kindle or paperback.
Proud to GM two Warhammer Adventures:
Plays as Ulrich, Student of Law
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2010-07-20, 09:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
Initial thoughts: They would all want to be evil to avoid auto dying from blaspemy, and with 35 extra feats, they could just take roll with it until they have such a high DR that not even a crit will damage them. But even then, killing it will take so long the balor would easily be able to dominate each party member before then, or just teleport away.
Without breaking out at least some TO, I'm stumped.Last edited by Boci; 2010-07-20 at 09:49 PM.
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2010-07-20, 09:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
In theory, couldn't a Stunlock team (consisting) of a Spell-warped Sniper work?
Balors aren't immune to stun. They can make the spell have no save (the spell I'm referring to is Sand Blast).
The chance of hitting his touch AC isn't farfetched.
It has horriblely crappy range (15) and SR is an issue, but assuming you preparing only it or lots of spell slot orbs (pearls of power) you could keep doing it every round in hopes rest of party kills it.
One would hope a persistedly stunned target could be killed even by 6th lv characters.
Granted, that would be theory.
I'd assume the Sniper'd need some SR bypassing stuff (or just that array Resistance spell/Truecasting)Last edited by Starbuck_II; 2010-07-20 at 09:51 PM.
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2010-07-20, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2010-07-20, 09:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
Yes, you need 3rd lv spells (doesn't require arcane which is good part).
You need Sandblast (Druid 1st) so you need one of the clases:
1) Spirit Shaman
2) Archivist (assuming he chooses it)
3) Druid
Archivist 5/Spellward Sniper 1 is 6th lv.
But I'm not sure what the other party members should do to kill the Balor. He has DR 15 meaning you'll need shocktrooper power attacking to hurt him or sneak attack as stunned denies dex to AC.
Tomorrow I'll design this theoretical party.Last edited by Starbuck_II; 2010-07-20 at 09:58 PM.
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2010-07-20, 10:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2010-07-20, 10:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
Right, you'd need Assassin's Stance which is our 6th lv feat.
Do feats come before you choose classes?
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2010-07-20, 10:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2010-07-20, 10:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
Avatar by Ceika.
Archives:
SpoilerSaberhagen's Twelve Swords, some homebrew artifacts for 3.5 (please comment)
Isstinen Tonche for ECL 74 playtesting.
Team Solars: Powergaming beyond your wildest imagining, without infinite loops or epic. Yes, the DM asked for it.
Arcane Swordsage: Making it actually work (homebrew)
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2010-07-20, 10:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
do you need to kill it or survive killing it because that explosion at the end will fry you if you don't have fire immunity
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2010-07-20, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
Ah, poo. I'd love to be a diety. D:
Wazard: Lars Utguard; Human Wizard 6. He would prepare a lot of Touch of Idiocy's and such.
Priest: Marley, Man; Elven Druid 6. He likes wildshape and has a puma companion. Oh, and a magic yo-yo, man.
Beat 'em up: Thogg, the Bardbarian: Barbarian 5/Bard 1. Thogg Smash! Thogg have pounce!
Theif: Ith: Nezumi Rogue: Diplomacy, Bluff, Craven, you know the deal.Originally Posted by Hans
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2010-07-20, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
Can we buy it?
Notice Shadow Hands add one maneuver from the Shadow Hand school up to 3rd. Stances are maneuvers for certaining things like prereqs.
It grants it as long as you wear them.
But maybe you are right, it probably refers to actual maneuvers not stances.
Wait, since ECL is used for E6, can you use Bloodlines for 2 extra levels (that grant nothing)?
Bloodlines would increase the Martial adept level for determining max maneuver learnable.Last edited by Starbuck_II; 2010-07-20 at 10:14 PM.
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2010-07-20, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
Last edited by Boci; 2010-07-20 at 10:13 PM.
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2010-07-20, 10:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- In an Octopus's Garden
Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
This Arcane Caster is (I believe) E6 legal. He can do it. He has unlimited 9th level spell slots, and knows every spell on the beguiler list. Use WBL to learn some other Wizard spells (worth it even at 20x), and he'll be set.
For the roll of Healbot/Buffer, I believe I will choose a Wizard 5/Cleric1 (domains planning and undeath) with the following feats:
Flaw:Heighten Spell
Flaw:Earth Sense
1:Earth Spell
3:Improved Krau Sigil
Wiz5(bonus):Sanctum Spell
Cleric(bonus):Extra Turning
Cleric(bonus):Extend Spell
6:Extra Slot (gaining a 5th level slot)
E1:Extra Slot(gaining a 7th level slot)
E2:Extra Slot(gaining a 9th level slot)You can now cast 7th level spells.
E3:Arcane Disciple(Luck)
E4:Extra Spell(Miracle)
E5:Persist Spell
E6:DMM(Persist)
....Extra Slot(11th level slot) to taste
I'm not really good at building melee/rogue types, so I'll leave that to someone else.
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2010-07-20, 10:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
Question: Is it considered defeating the Balor if I can only kill him if my attack roll doesn't roll a 1? I don't know how to get around rolling a one in only 6 levels.
Also, is it possible for me to ambush this Balor and then gain a surprise round? Or do I need to pump my Initiative Modifier to +32 to win initiative even if he gets a natural 20 to my natural 1 on Initiative?(assuming the Balor can stop me given a round)
If it wasn't obvious, I'm envisioning a build that will kill the Balor in one momentous hit.
I'm thinking the 2nd level spell (Wraithstrike I think) to make my attack a touch attack. +15 to hit isn't hard even at level 6. Go first, and then deal 361 (A Balor's maximum hit points) or more damage in single attack. Seems possible, if difficult. I thought this could be done with Factotum working with only one other party member.... until I reread the restriction on Font of Inspiration.Last edited by aje8; 2010-07-20 at 10:21 PM.
Fire Emblem Optimizer and Game Balancer (apparently) in the Playground
A note on using my Fire Emblem rules:
Spoiler
I'm mostly retired from Fire Emblem PbPs, and indeed the PbPs in general at present. So if you wish to use my character creation rules, I would appreciate a PM, but feel free to start the game before I respond, as it might be a while.
Originally Posted by Kallisti
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2010-07-20, 10:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
okay here my plan not sure if its what you want but take a bag of holding and a portable hole throw the portal within 10 feet of the balor then throw the bag inside it.
every one evil to avoid blasphemy
use leadership if allowed and improved familiars with hands spread out as much as possible and hope 2 people live long enough to throw the items.
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2010-07-20, 10:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- In an Octopus's Garden
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2010-07-20, 10:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
all the evil characters should wear good aligned holy symbols in the hope of tricking it into wasting its first turn with a blasphemy
Last edited by awa; 2010-07-20 at 10:26 PM.
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2010-07-20, 10:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
Really, someone with diplomacy pumped up the ass can beat the balor.
Originally Posted by Hans
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2010-07-20, 10:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
Watch out, Starbuck is on the job. This guy can shoot down like 50 Cylon ships and make a damn fine latte at the same time.
Nope. Mage's Lucubration is 6th level so it is neither available as a scroll nor in a spellbook.
Assuming you can get around that, can you explain to me how the guy can "technically and actually" cast 4th level spells in the first place?
Sure. The dice go against everyone sometimes. A 30th level party can lost to a Balor with enough bad rolls. But an e6 party with a strong chance of victory is something to behold.
Of course if your plan is to hit it with a one-shot nova and rolling a 1 on that oneattack roll means you lose, I don't think you have a "strong chance."
Also, is it possible for me to ambush this Balor and then gain a surprise round? Or do I need to pump my Initiative Modifier to +32 to win initiative even if he gets a natural 20 to my natural 1 on Initiative?(assuming the Balor can stop me given a round)
If it wasn't obvious, I'm envisioning a build that will kill the Balor in one momentous hit. I'm thinking the 2nd level spell (Wraithstrike I think)....
Points for trying but there is no guarantee this will help. The wording on the interaction of these pocket spaces is vague enough that it is basically DM's call what happens. If your plan is to ask the DM to rule that the Balor dies then your plan is lacking a certain.... planniness.
You have a promising career ahead of you, young strategos.Last edited by Another_Poet; 2010-07-20 at 10:36 PM.
I just published my first novella, Lúnasa Days, a modern fantasy with a subtle, uncertain magic.
You can grab it on Kindle or paperback.
Proud to GM two Warhammer Adventures:
Plays as Ulrich, Student of Law
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2010-07-20, 10:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
As the instigator of this challenge, I will challenge anyone who the OP considers successful to play against a Balor encounter.
But that said, as far as beating the Balor, my opinions are:
1) You have to be able to plausibly beat it's Spot and Listen checks of +38 to get surprise rounds, also remember the True Seeing.
2) While Blasphemy is a big deal, let's not forget the other things it can do, for starters, DC 26 Firestorm CL 20. So if you can't survive about 70 damage, or 35 and show us an impressive ref save (or have improved evasion, or have evasions and ref save) you should probably work on that too.
3) As for declaring victory, if you can run three consecutive fights against the Balor encounter, and win 2 of them, you are my hero and have won the challenge as far as I am concerned.
4) Anything casting like 5th level spells or higher is probably more cheesy than I care about, because I'm pretty sure the point of e6 is to limit PCs, and so any cheese that straight up exceeds the limits intended probably wouldn't be allowed by any DM that actually choose to play e6.
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2010-07-20, 10:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
Does victory entail surviving the death throes of the Balor? Because otherwise you'll need about 30 Toughness feats apiece.
ze/zir | she/her
Omnia Vincit Amor
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2010-07-20, 10:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
I welcome Malakar to the thread, and promise not to certify a winner unless I really believe it has a shot of beating his Balor fight 2 out of 3 times.
I can't require the winner to fight him but would urge them to do so to entertain us all and prove their God of Heroes status.
YUP!Last edited by Another_Poet; 2010-07-20 at 10:39 PM.
I just published my first novella, Lúnasa Days, a modern fantasy with a subtle, uncertain magic.
You can grab it on Kindle or paperback.
Proud to GM two Warhammer Adventures:
Plays as Ulrich, Student of Law
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2010-07-20, 10:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
That is a problem. Fire substype would probably be the only way to surivive that. Is LA allowed? What about fire souled: http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD...-Templates.pdf (page 55)
Last edited by Boci; 2010-07-20 at 10:43 PM.
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
-
2010-07-20, 10:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2004
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- Enterprise, Alabama
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
Last edited by Starbuck_II; 2010-07-20 at 10:46 PM.
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2010-07-20, 10:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2010
Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
You should be aware that Firesouled is in fact a +3 not +1 LA, and that Crystal Keep is just wrong there.
But other than that, using LA is fine, though it does count against the six part of your e6.
EDIT: Death throes is area, so you can also have Evasion, and just ignore the whole thing.
And indeed, for my considerations of winning, a dead Balor and one living member of the party of four is acceptable.Last edited by Malakar; 2010-07-20 at 10:51 PM.
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2010-07-20, 10:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
modification to my plan skeletons suicide bombers wearing bags of holding and they stick portable holes in them when within 10 feet of the balor
"If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process"
skeletons should be dressed in full body concealing robes to hide their undead nature
the balor does not have an easy way out of the astral plane the rules unlike those for the rope trick are not particularly vague and their is no save.
evil people only to protect you from blasphemy. Have high dex, improved initiative. protection from energy fire on are suicide bombers keep every one as far away from each other as possible.
If you survive long enough to act send in one skeleton in with out bags to take the attack of opportunityLast edited by awa; 2010-07-20 at 10:58 PM.
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2010-07-20, 10:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-07-20, 10:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- In an Octopus's Garden
Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
A Beguiler1/Wizard5 with versatile spellcaster can sack two third level slots to cast any spell he knows of 4th level, so he has the technical ability to cast 4th level Wizard spells, and therefore can choose to learn one when he levels. Also, he can actually cast them off of the Beguiler list. Versatile spellcaster is worded really poorly, but these are RAW uses.
Re:Mage's Lucubration, good catch, but buying the Mage's Lucubration was just a cleaner way of doing it. He can technically cast 6th* level spells at this level (ECL6), so he can learn Mnemonic Enhancer, and Mage's Lucubration for leveling, and then buy scrolls of Haste and Phantom Steed instead.
*After learning Mnemonic Enhancer, and before choosing his second spell, he begins the process, only choosing his second spell, when he gets to the point that he needs it.
Is there a problem with the Divine build?
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2010-07-20, 10:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Fayetteville, AR
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Re: Optimize or Die, Playgrounders! [E6 Balor Challenge Thread]
I feel that this wouldn't be that hard, honestly. I just have to hope that I beat someone else to the builds.