New Free Prc on the WOTC site, the Swiftblade

[McDeath]

It's pretty cool, but as the description states like four hundred times, it is very specialised. This class contributes little to any non-combat functions, which are just as important as combat. If you want to as fast as a toddler on red cordial, with slightly lower BAB and quite a bit lower caster level, this class is for you.
Edit: Once again, my post starts the second page. I swear that happens every single time.

[Ethdred]

Am I missing something, but if you can cast Haste as a free action every round, then won't your party be always moving at double speed? Even out of combat that's a pretty hefty bonus.

[Dhavaer]

Am I missing something, but if you can cast Haste as a free action every round, then won't your party be always moving at double speed? Even out of combat that's a pretty hefty bonus.

You still use up a spell slot, it just drops the casting time.

[Nebo_]

I'm pretty sure it still takes a spell slot to cast.

[Ikkitosen]

Just as a point, you shouldn't be able to use this class in a gestalt game since it's one of those fusion classes like arcane trickster that does 2 classes' thang at once.

I love the class, but I don't think the last level is worth it. A wiz 6 / Swiftblade 9 / Abj Champ 5 would have BAB +17 and cast at 17th, which is 9th level spell(s). Would you trade that for free time stops, which you can cast anyway?

[Khoran]

You know, I was thinking, how do you think this PrC would work out if you took levels in Beguiler. You gain a plethora of abilities and enter at the same time as Sorcerers or Wizards.

[Talya]

I just want to see someone QUALIFY for this class. Having to prepare/spont. cast NOTHING but Haste spells for one whole level is just funny to think about.

That's not really a requirement. They can still use other level spell slots for other spells. It's only their third level spell slots they need to hold exclusively for haste.

Note that a sorceror automatically qualifies if they take Haste as their 3rd level spell at level 6, because it's the only one they get.

[Talya]

It's pretty cool, but as the description states like four hundred times, it is very specialised. This class contributes little to any non-combat functions, which are just as important as combat. If you want to as fast as a toddler on red cordial, with slightly lower BAB and quite a bit lower caster level, this class is for you.
Edit: Once again, my post starts the second page. I swear that happens every single time.

Except you're still a wizard. With all the spells you'd have had without taking swiftblade...only you lag a couple levels behind in your casting. Seems that's still a lot of non-combat functionality. More than a fighter gets, anyway.

[AtomicKitKat]

That's not really a requirement. They can still use other level spell slots for other spells. It's only their third level spell slots they need to hold exclusively for haste.

Note that a sorceror automatically qualifies if they take Haste as their 3rd level spell at level 6, because it's the only one they get.

Umm...no.

Special: Must have spent the entire previous level using all 3rd level spell slots to exclusively cast haste.

He still has to actually use the Haste spell at least once.

Edit: And not use the 3rd level slot for any metamagiced versions of lower level spells either.

[Arbitrarity]

So he blows them at night :P.

[Dhavaer]

So he blows them at night :P.

You dirty, dirty, person-of-nonspecified-gender you.

[brian c]

Just as a point, you shouldn't be able to use this class in a gestalt game since it's one of those fusion classes like arcane trickster that does 2 classes' thang at once.

It's recommended that you not use combo classes in gestalt, like Mystic Theurge, but it's not banned or anything. That's up to the DM, like everything else.

[Ramza00]

Just as a point, you shouldn't be able to use this class in a gestalt game since it's one of those fusion classes like arcane trickster that does 2 classes' thang at once.

And what class is the Swiftblade a fusion of? Please dear tell.

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I understand a DM saying no to this class via DM rule 0 for other reasons not that it is a combo class. It is balanced by the fact you lose 4 caster levels, in gestalt you won't lose 4 caster levels, instead you just lose 4 lvls of some other progression. Using 4 lvls to get an extra standard/move action is just way too good, and this is before the other benefits of the class.

Thus I can see a DM saying no, the reason why that you provided is fallaciousthough.

[Hurlbut]

It's "Pray do tell"

[Ikkitosen]

And it's arcane caster and fighter, like eldritch knight.

[Everyman]

Ikkitosen, it really isn't a combination class. It's close, but the loss of four caster levels and having all its class abilities dependant on haste spells is just too much to call it a theurge.

[Ikkitosen]

Ikkitosen, it really isn't a combination class. It's close, but the loss of four caster levels and having all its class abilities dependant on haste spells is just too much to call it a theurge.

So you'd allow it in a gestalt game? I have to disagree, it's clearly a "gish" PrC (fight+cast, not cast+cast like a theurge), and while not the obviously most powerful choice it's clearly filling 2 roles - caster and fighter. It's just that, in the spirit of balance, it doesn't fight as well as a fighter or cast as well as a wizard.

[Ramza00]

So you'd allow it in a gestalt game? I have to disagree, it's clearly a "gish" PrC (fight+cast, not cast+cast like a theurge), and while not the obviously most powerful choice it's clearly filling 2 roles - caster and fighter. It's just that, in the spirit of balance, it doesn't fight as well as a fighter or cast as well as a wizard.

From the UA/SRD

A gestalt character can’t combine two prestige classes at any level, although it’s okay to combine a prestige class and a regular class. Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant. Because it’s possible for gestalt characters to qualify for prestige classes earlier than normal, the game master is entirely justified in toughening the prerequisites of a prestige class so it’s available only after 5th level, even for gestalt characters.

The swiftblade isn't essentially a class combination.

You may say you won't allow it due to DM rule 0, but you can't use the arguement it violates that bullet point of the Gestalt rules. Now you can say it violates the spirit of gestalt rules, but that is a hell of another matter.

[Ikkitosen]

Ok, I interpret it that having full bab and the ability to significantly advance a full spellcasting ability makes it a combination of 2 classes. You may interpret it the other way should you so choose, of course!

EDIT: Back on track - it's still a great-looking PrC either way :)

[Emperor Tippy]

Ok, I interpret it that having full bab and the ability to significantly advance a full spellcasting ability makes it a combination of 2 classes. You may interpret it the other way should you so choose, of course!

EDIT: Back on track - it's still a great-looking PrC either way :)

Meh. Not worth it if you can't take it outside of gestalt. Potentially worth it in a PvP type game for 4 levels to get the plus casting stat bonus to Initiative but otherwise its just not worth it.

[Turcano]

From the UA/SRD


The swiftblade isn't essentially a class combination.

You may say you won't allow it due to DM rule 0, but you can't use the arguement it violates that bullet point of the Gestalt rules. Now you can say it violates the spirit of gestalt rules, but that is a hell of another matter.

I think that the spirit of that prohibition is that any prestige classes that advance one or more caster levels can't apply to two different classes. In other words, taking mystic theurge in a gestalt game would advance the CL of the class you took it on and overlap with (i.e., not stack with) the CL of the other side of the progression, making the mystic theurge pointless; the same is pretty much true for the eldritch knight as well. On the other hand, the arcane trickster gives you class features that aren't merely progressions another class feature, so you could take levels in it and overlap the progression for either CL or sneak attack (whichever is on the other side from the one you added AT levels to). At least that's how I see it, anyway.

[Everyman]

Ok, I interpret it that having full bab and the ability to significantly advance a full spellcasting ability makes it a combination of 2 classes. You may interpret it the other way should you so choose, of course!

EDIT: Back on track - it's still a great-looking PrC either way :)

Well, we agree to disagree, but we can see each other's reasoning. I think we can call this a sucessful debate.

PS. I concur. It is an awesome PrC. Maybe not all powerful, but a fun one.

[Droodle]

I love the class, but I don't think the last level is worth it. A wiz 6 / Swiftblade 9 / Abj Champ 5 would have BAB +17 and cast at 17th, which is 9th level spell(s). Would you trade that for free time stops, which you can cast anyway?

The big advantage to the swiftblade is that, just like haste, you'll be able to cast timestop over and over and over and.....see my point?

This class just begs to be used by a reach fighting Battle Sorcerer. I'd go with Battle Sorcerer6/Swiftblade 10/and probably just finish out with more levels of Battle Sorcerer (in my opinion, prestige classes aren't very, well, prestigious if every character has 12 of them by level 20). Make sure this guy takes combat reflexes, Arcane Strike, Somatic Weaponry, and (eventually) Power Attack. He'll be a demon with a decent long spear.