Buffy vs. Ryu

[Red Fel]

I find the idea of Xander ending the fight, via a rocket launcher or other heavy weaponry he finds, shooting it while Buffy is out of range, quite funny. Thank you for that image.

Willow's magic could easily make or break the fight, I'd think. Ryu is used to fireballs and electric shocks, but I'm not sure how he'd respond to illusions or emotional manipulation. (Then again, I don't remember much of the limits of non-evil Willow's magic.)

Yeah. Let's not forget that Xander's knowledge of both heavy weapons and tactics is canon, which is pretty fun.

As for Willow's magic, it was extremely tame, and for a long time not actually a thing, until Dark Willow. And since the OP has ruled out anything after Season 5, she's a no-go. (Unless we count mirror-universe Evil Vampire Willow, maybe?) Pity, because Dark Willow ends fights. While lots of Street Fighter characters have generally supernatural powers (e.g. Dhalsim's "yoga," Bison's psycho power), few fight with explicit magic - meaning there's no metric by which to measure Ryu's resistance. And Dark Willow just totally ripped the skin off a dude with one gesture. Assuming no resistance on Ryu's part, Dark Willow wouldl completely destroy him.

Hey, there was one episode specifically about Buffy, on her own with no back-up, defeating one of the strongest vampires around on her own. She also eventually beat the Master, another of the strongest vampires and the person who killed her the first time, on her own. What could the Scoobies do to help her there? Oh, except for CPR. Then there's the episode where, again completely without support, Buffy fights a vampire who is not only super-strong but also a master of martial arts and hardly 'gets her butt kicked', she wins, of course. Buffy has stood up to and fought people like Glory, a person with far more raw strength than Ryu, but she did get her butt kicked but so would Ryu likely. And the second time Buffy died it was a suicidal sacrifice so it hardly proves she's beatable.

That's totally fair. She's very strong, not questioning that. But the fact remains that, as others have mentioned, (1) part of her success comes from her reputation, in that supernatural beings are understandably afraid of the Slayer, (2) part of it comes from ingenuity, either hers or her friends', and (3) the rest comes primarily from natural ability rather than training or killing intent - yes, she trains, but she's only been doing that for a few years, and it isn't the life she wants. This can't be emphasized enough - the biggest part of Buffy's arc is wrestling with the fact that she is the Slayer, and doesn't want to be the slayer. This culminates in - and forgive me for spoiling a TV series that's been gone over a decade - her killing herself to save the world. Then, of course, the network demanded that Whedon bring her back (which he hadn't originally intended), so he comes up with an arc about how she was happy when she was finally allowed to die.

My point is that this is not a person who enjoys what she does. Contrast Ryu, for whom fighting is all he knows. She dies to stop fighting; he lives for fighting. He has no reason to know her reputation. He's an extremely capable and adaptive fighter, so ingenuity is unlikely to help. And he has not only natural ability (from being in a peak state of fitness) but trained ability and killing intent. He has fought stronger opponents (e.g. Zangief, whom I'm pretty sure could rip a Buffy!Vamp in half) and more agile ones (e.g. Chun Li, who does the acrobatic thing way better than Buffy because Buffy can't fly by using her legs like helicopter blades). Fighting an opponent who is stronger than he is, and more agile, and is tired of fighting and kind of wants to die, really isn't a problem for Ryu, is the point.

[HolyDraconus]

Buffy doesn't train in the normal sense. She doesn't gain the same benefits from it that others, like Ryu does. When she train it's less about conditioning her body and far more about unlocking more inherent power and skill from being a slayer. That's the reason why it's infrequent when she trains. And while Buffy as just herself has no real skill, when she fights she draws from literal generations of skill and power. It's not just one person when you go up against her. Ryu is a powerful fighter, but he's taken some questionable Ls in his career. Let's not forget that in current canon, he thru a full powered hado infused punch and Dhalsim no-sold it. He lost to Ken who doesn't take training anywhere near as seriously, and it's been a proven fact that Bison doesn't want to destroy Ryu' s body and as such holds back (nevermind the fact he bodied Ryu and Ken at the same time). We can't forget how in canon he LOST to Sagat, who was trying to help him up and got a sucker dragon punch for his troubles.

All that is to say, that Ryu is skilled but he's not outside Buffy' s scope. Of course, if this fight was against Akuma....

[Kyberwulf]

LOL. Buffy isn't the avatar. She doesn't get benefits from from the past like Aang does. The whole thing about Buffy is she neglects her training. All the time. In every episode she is neglecting anything to do with training. All so she can have some crappy attempt at a social life. She gets by though the sheer fact she is the main character. All her accomplishments are due to the fact.. She has friends.. and she gets props that solve her problems for her, or her enemies being "macho" and pushing this men are overbearing and hate women enough to not take them serious thing Weadon always does.

Oh, and Xander getting possessed by spirits and whatnot doesn't really count. They never really come into play again. Usually.

[JeenLeen]

Buffy doesn't train in the normal sense. She doesn't gain the same benefits from it that others, like Ryu does. When she train it's less about conditioning her body and far more about unlocking more inherent power and skill from being a slayer. That's the reason why it's infrequent when she trains. And while Buffy as just herself has no real skill, when she fights she draws from literal generations of skill and power.

Are you sure?
To take out Adam, they had to do a ritual to draw upon the past knowledge and power of the Slayers. I think it did more than just that, but it seems to imply that she doesn't have the inherent knowledge locked in her. Maybe that of the First Slayer, but I don't think that about the other generations.
I will warrant that some of her powers may include 'boosted benefit from training' and an instinct for martial arts and weaponry. So maybe it's semantics whether we're disagreeing with one another or not.

I will yield if you can cite an episode where what you say was stated. Just from what I wateched (over a decade ago, so with memory fuzzed), I don't think that's quite right.

Oh, and Xander getting possessed by spirits and whatnot doesn't really count.

I think it was stated that the knowledge gained during that Halloween-costume episode was retained. While any spirits of soldiers (or whatever was powering the magic) departed, the knowledge remained. I recall at least one episode, other than the one where he was a soldier-man, where he used the tactics he gained then. (Unfortunately, I don't remember anything about the episode other than that.)
(If you were referring to something else, ignore my comment.)

[Otomodachi]

LOL. Buffy isn't the avatar. She doesn't get benefits from from the past like Aang does. The whole thing about Buffy is she neglects her training. All the time. In every episode she is neglecting anything to do with training. All so she can have some crappy attempt at a social life. She gets by though the sheer fact she is the main character. All her accomplishments are due to the fact.. She has friends.. and she gets props that solve her problems for her, or her enemies being "macho" and pushing this men are overbearing and hate women enough to not take them serious thing Weadon always does.

Oh, and Xander getting possessed by spirits and whatnot doesn't really count. They never really come into play again. Usually.

I mean she actually kinda is. Buffy's fought off multiple combatants, at once, while under the effect of an amnesia spell. She literally had no idea how to fight, but still did. Honestly being the Slayer has very little to do with NATURAL ability. It's SUPERnatural ability. Being the Slayer is the effect of a very very old, very very powerful spell. So, you know, that makes it pretty hard to gauge exactly what her limits are!

Her ability to fight is VERY dependent on her mood and mental state, though. When she first started college she got whupped by some scrub-level vampires just cuz she was down in the dumps. She got over it.

My guess is it's gonna be a pretty even fight. Buffy can literally heart-punch a demon, punch through solid concrete, outrun a motorcycle, and get hit by a car and immediately just jog away no worse for the wear. She knocked down a building using only sexy fun times. She has insane senses; she can detect invisible people by sound, she can fight blind-folded or in the dark. She's REALLY, REALLY good. The actual explicit effect of being the slayer is training is magnified. Ryu has trained longer, sure, but each second Buffy trains COUNTS vastly more than Ryu.

I still think it's a toss-up. I don't know Street Fighter-verse EXCEPTIONALLY well, but I know Ryu's a bad-ass. Buffy is SURPRISINGLY durable. Of course, that won't win a fight. Maybe she'd get in some good licks early and clinch the win; maybe Ryu would keep fighting long enough for Buffy to start question WHAT she's fighting, which means her powers are gonna slip a bit. It depends. Ryu has the SKILL to potentially beat her, probably, but I think it'd be a matter of her leaving an opening for him, which would happen because she realized this fight was silly and Ryu's not evil, and since Ryu's not evil... I mean, it's not like he's gonna kill her. And Buffy heals. Really. Good. Sprained arm? Minutes. MULTIPLE FRACTURES? INFECTION? Overnight. MASSIVE blood loss? Maybe a couple hours.

I do think it's a mistake to think of Buffy as operating on some kind of "superpowers and NATURAL talent" though. As the series repeatedly hammers home, there is nothing NATURAL about the slayer, no matter how much you might wish otherwise. Buffy's not "as strong and fast as a vampire", she VASTLY OUTCLASSES a vampire. The only vampire that was physically stronger than Buffy in the series was the Master, and she got him through being better in every OTHER way. The only THINGS physically stronger than Buffy in the series are: Glorificus, Caleb, Adam and probably Olaf.

Against Bison, I actually rate her chances higher. Buffy stops evil. It is literally what she does. You can talk about how she tries to have an ordinary life, but at the end of the day- Buffy. Stops. Evil. That's what Slayer's are for. It's a fight she can COMMIT to, and for a Slayer, that makes ALL the difference.

If you want a REAL fight, you put Dark Ryu against Buffy from the climax of the first of the Comics series, where she is literally Superman.

Spoiler: Spoiler

Show

Although they'd probably just end up banging a new world into existence.

[Red Fel]

With respect to training, the training scenes I've seen are all actual training - acrobatics, martial arts, agility, weapons. Not any kind of mystical unlocking whatnot (except for that one bit with visions of the First Slayer). And with respect to "using the spirits and knowledge of past Slayers," that's not really true - until Season 4, Buffy doesn't really give much regard to Slayer history. It's not until the First Slayer tries to kill her friends that she actually takes an interest.

I think it was stated that the knowledge gained during that Halloween-costume episode was retained. While any spirits of soldiers (or whatever was powering the magic) departed, the knowledge remained. I recall at least one episode, other than the one where he was a soldier-man, where he used the tactics he gained then. (Unfortunately, I don't remember anything about the episode other than that.)
(If you were referring to something else, ignore my comment.)

Canonically true. In Season 2, after the whole Halloween incident, he manages to successfully infiltrate a military base and impersonate a soldier, and shows Buffy how to operate a rocket launcher. He organized the defense against the Mayor. And in Season 4, he's able to use his knowledge of weapons to operate an Initiative blaster. While he admitted that his skills deteriorated, there was lasting impact.

[Otomodachi]

With respect to training, the training scenes I've seen are all actual training - acrobatics, martial arts, agility, weapons......

You're right, it's not about mystically unlocking anything. It's mystically there, unlocked, accessible as long as she WANTS to fight. In some way, though, time spent training accelerates her development of SKILL. It's magic, but not MYSTIC.

While he admitted that his skills deteriorated, there was lasting impact.

Yeah, which is normal. Xander's a regular guy, if he doesn't use it he loses it. Just like how if I don't pick up my guitar for a half a year, I've gotta play from tabs against for a while before I remember how all the songs go. It was BASICALLY like the scene in the Matrix- he got "army guy" uploaded into his brain.

[TeChameleon]

Huh- one random thing that occurred to me that might tip the balance a bit- if Buffy goes into the fight thinking that Ryu is a demon, then she's likely to go into things looking to straight-up murder him, as quickly and expediently as possible, something that Ryu (to the best of my knowledge) doesn't typically open fights with. So it might (emphasis on might) throw him off balance slightly when some random valley girl pops out of nowhere and starts going to town on him with medieval weaponry and enough strength to chuck Zangief around like a ragdoll (Zangief is improbably strong, for sure, but he's not in the multiple-tonne deadlift category like the slayer apparently is).

[Red Fel]

Huh- one random thing that occurred to me that might tip the balance a bit- if Buffy goes into the fight thinking that Ryu is a demon, then she's likely to go into things looking to straight-up murder him, as quickly and expediently as possible, something that Ryu (to the best of my knowledge) doesn't typically open fights with. So it might (emphasis on might) throw him off balance slightly when some random valley girl pops out of nowhere and starts going to town on him with medieval weaponry and enough strength to chuck Zangief around like a ragdoll (Zangief is improbably strong, for sure, but he's not in the multiple-tonne deadlift category like the slayer apparently is).

Problem: There are some demons Buffy likes. Or, well, tolerates. The Buffyverse has a whole lot of ambiguity. (Heck, didn't she let that one demon who eats puppies babysit Dawn one time?) So even if she assumes that Ryu is a demon - and non-Dark Ryu doesn't come across as particularly demonic, just intense - her first priority would probably be to protect any civilians, then talk the guy down, not directly engage.

Also, given that Ryu had a sailor-fuku'd stalker fangirl he had to deal with for awhile, pretty sure "random valley girl pops out of nowhere and starts going to town on him" isn't going to come as a surprise anymore.

[Traab]

Huh- one random thing that occurred to me that might tip the balance a bit- if Buffy goes into the fight thinking that Ryu is a demon, then she's likely to go into things looking to straight-up murder him, as quickly and expediently as possible, something that Ryu (to the best of my knowledge) doesn't typically open fights with. So it might (emphasis on might) throw him off balance slightly when some random valley girl pops out of nowhere and starts going to town on him with medieval weaponry and enough strength to chuck Zangief around like a ragdoll (Zangief is improbably strong, for sure, but he's not in the multiple-tonne deadlift category like the slayer apparently is).

No, he is in the "beats up grizzly bears for fun and exercise" demographic of strength. Maybe not multiple ton, but still capable of picking up buffy and hurling her like a lawn dart if he can grab hold of her.

[pendell]

Wait wait wait wait wait .... what's all this talk about killing? Maybe I'm a little bit dated on my street fighter lore, but since when has Ryu ever killed anyone?

Why do we have to assume that either of them are out to kill the other? Can't it be a simple contest of skill and strength, which is what the SFII games are about? Sure, there's an excuse plot where we're fighting Bison and his goons to save the world, but IIRC, the good guys don't even kill Bison.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Kyberwulf]

I don't think anyone is really saying they would try kill each other.

But, Buffy sucks as the slayer.

First off, being a slayer doesn't automatically make you sort of Juggernaut on the battlefield. It helps sure,... again being a slayer is most often a short brutal existence. Sure she can ambush some vampires, and take out an over confident group. She just as often gets jumped and barely survives. She would have died many, many .. times over if she didn't have help. Trying to claim things they can do, is also inaccurate. The show does a horrible job giving a baseline anything to any of the powers a slayer has. One episode she can run faster then cars. Another episode they are just above average. This works both ways in a versus match. In this given fight, She could overpower Ryu, or she could barely constitute a fight. It all depends on what random skill ability boosts the slayer power seems to give when the slayer wakes up in the morning.

Second even as a slayer, Buffy is a crappy one. She shirks her duties and responsibilities as the slayer. Kendra and Faith made far better slayers. I have never said it was a natural talent. I said she gets by based on she is the protagonist, and her ability to subvert troupes. She doesn't train and she does the least she can do as a slayer so she can attempt a life.

Also, her fighting people with amnesia, doesn't mean she is calling on the past lives of slayers. It's called muscle memory. You train so hard, long, and often. Your body just knows what to do to defend itself. Also your ability to defend yourself based on your mood, is not a good thing. It is a detriment.

So taken alone at face value. Ryu wins. Easily. Quite simply, if Ryu doesn't do anything to upset the emotionally volatile child, she would be easy to take down. If she gets angry, she would be a little more work, but in the end she is undisciplined.

Thirdly, Besides her ability to have enemies be stupid and the rules of magic to have loopholes. She has another thing that makes her lucky. It isn't her skills and abilities as a slayer that makes her survive. It's her popularity. I wouldn't say it's her ability as a leader either. She sucks as a leader. She lets her emotions drive what she wants. She is popular. Which allows her to have friend that can be there to help her. This is the only reason she has survived so long. The smartest thing she did as the slayer, was to say she wasn't going to go it alone. That alone is the reason that she has survived. Not her skills or abilities.

[Phobia]

Buffy started off bemoaning her fate as the slayer and neglecting her training and duties but she character developments past that eventually. I'd hardly put someone that was weak minded enough to be mind-controlled by a vampire or someone who literally joined the bad guys and tried to destroy the world as better Slayers than her.

There is definitely an 'avatar' like quality to the Slayer with plenty episodes focused on past Slayers and her weird dream-like memories that call upon past knowledge (and future knowledge). The First Slayer didn't start killing her friends till after she used the Ritual in the first place, either.

Buffy was pretty good as a leader when she buckled down, harsh but good, but everyone turned on her hardly making her 'popular'. In fact, the popular option was Faith who then accidentally led everyone following her into a death trap Buffy had warned them about earlier. So much for your 'better slayer'.

[Kyberwulf]

Yeah, how many episodes involve Buffy getting mind controlled. Heck not even Wammyied.... Just manipulated by random guys? Heck she almost let the world be destroyed because she couldn't' kill her boyfriend? How many people did Angelus kill that she let go, because she could kill a vampire? I mean she even goes so far as to fall in love with 3 Vampires!...So she is just as weak as the other slayers... as was my point.

She is not an avatar quality either. She can just focus and consult all the previous slayers like the avatar can, as they live inside him. She needs to be possessed by the actual spirit, and I am not even sure if it is all the slayers.. I think it was only the fist slayer that contacted her.

She lost control of the people BECAUSE she made unpopular choices. Which is my point, a good leader will get people to follow them despite that. ALSO, I never said faith was a good leader. A better Slayer, yeah. With less resources and training, she always put up a decent fight against another slayer that was training longer, and had more resources then her.

Kendra was also better. Yeah she got mind controlled, but that goes to my point about how slayers aren't invincible. That they lead short brutal lives. How many times has Buffy been put in that kind of danger, THROUGH her own incompetence. Yet got pulled through because of friends or plot?

[Red Fel]

Wait wait wait wait wait .... what's all this talk about killing? Maybe I'm a little bit dated on my street fighter lore, but since when has Ryu ever killed anyone?

Why do we have to assume that either of them are out to kill the other? Can't it be a simple contest of skill and strength, which is what the SFII games are about? Sure, there's an excuse plot where we're fighting Bison and his goons to save the world, but IIRC, the good guys don't even kill Bison.

Well, given that Bison is basically a spiritual entity inhabiting a body that's deteriorating under the weight of his power, it's questionable whether you even can kill him. Also, given that Dark Ryu has the power to basically annihilate souls, that's definitely at least a possibility. Also also, let's not forget that Buffy's role is the Slayer - killing is right there in the name.

I'm not saying they will try to kill each other, but Ryu at least fights as one prepared to kill.

Buffy started off bemoaning her fate as the slayer and neglecting her training and duties but she character developments past that eventually.

Yeah, but a lot of that character development comes right at the end - or, the intended end. Season 5 is where a lot of her development happens. Yes, she takes being the Slayer seriously earlier than that, but it's on an as-the-plot-demands basis, with some episodes - a lot, actually - involving her lamenting her position.

Her character development ends with her arc, in the Season 5 finale (which, again, was meant to be the series finale), when she takes total control of her destiny, total responsibility for the role of the Slayer, and personally closes the rift at the cost of her own life. Which is, frankly, an incredibly well-conceived character arc - the first several seasons have her wrestling with what it means to be the Slayer, later seasons have her realizing that the alternatives (e.g. The Initiative, Faith) aren't necessarily the greatest, and then in Season 5 her support structure (Joyce) is taken away, she is forced to become an adult (and care for Dawn), she is forced to confront mortality (her mother's and her own), she is forced to confront the Slayer legacy ("Death is your gift"), and she is forced to make a choice as to whether she will, as you put it, develop past her reluctance. She does, and it's great. But that all happens at what should be the end of her arc as a character and a living person.

[Otomodachi]

Kyberwulf, it seems to me you don't particularly like Buffy and it is deeply colouring your ability to have any kind of impartiality here, lol. What did she do to you? Did she eat your puppy? I gotta suggest you tone yourself down a bit, because the things you're claiming are the opposite of canon, man. I know my Buffy lore, heh. Instead of re-typing everything again, go and read my post further up.

[Anteros]

Kyberwulf, it seems to me you don't particularly like Buffy and it is deeply colouring your ability to have any kind of impartiality here, lol. What did she do to you? Did she eat your puppy? I gotta suggest you tone yourself down a bit, because the things you're claiming are the opposite of canon, man. I know my Buffy lore, heh. Instead of re-typing everything again, go and read my post further up.

Without picking a side here, most of the things you're disagreeing about are opinions and not objective facts. Your opinion isn't any more valid on those than anyone else's.

[Chen]

In terms of Slayers, Buffy's only special quality is she was far less of a lone wolf than many other Slayers who just worked with their Watcher. While being Slayer gives you some good physical powers, they're clearly not THAT special. Spike killed two Slayers on his own and countless other Slayers have been killed by relatively normal Vampires. There's no indication that Buffy is any different, power level wise, than any of these past Slayers.

[Sapphire Guard]

I'm not sure it's a case of better or worse, just different strengths and weaknesses.

Buffy isn't as dedicated as some of the other Slayers, but that lack of intensity and extra support from her non slaying life means she doesn't burn out as quickly.

[Otomodachi]

Without picking a side here, most of the things you're disagreeing about are opinions and not objective facts. Your opinion isn't any more valid on those than anyone else's.

That's fair, it's still hard to take opinions seriously when they're so... I dunno, rabid?

Like, let me put it this way. Being in love with a person, having them literally turn into a monster overnight, and having difficulty killing them is not a weakness. It is the human condition.

"Wanting to have a normal life" is not a weakness, it's the human condition. My basic understanding, Kyberwulf, is you have fundamental problems with the TOPIC of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, what the show was ABOUT. And that's OK, it's media, it's all always subjective. But it seems to prevent you from objectively estimating her capabilities.

She can bend steel girders. She can punch through concrete. She heals wounds unbelievably fast, not quite Wolverine fast but yeah, actually approaching it (non-ultra-powered-up Wolverine). I don't know Ryu as well as Buffy, like I said, but if she catches him once with a stray backhand, he's broken (unless he is MUCH sturdier than I think he is. Maybe so!). He's a great, capital G Great, fighter. Maybe he won't make a single mistake. But my experience in life is, if your in a situation where making a single mistake spells failure, that's a bad situation to be in. That's why I peg it as a damn close fight.

[Kyberwulf]

Yeah, from a certain point of view. From mine, there are people that overlook all of Buffy's fault's, and make her out to be WAY better then she was. They come off as rabid.

Wanting to have a human life is understandable. I don't fault her for that. What I do consider a weakness is she is constantly putting her life, which is fine it's her life, at risk. She puts her friends lives, and the lives of innocence in danger. I don't think she can be everywhere at once, and can save everyone's live. That is unrealistic. However, she constantly put's everyone's safety at risk when she finds out there is something going on, then ignores it. All so she can pretend to be "normal".

I don't doubt her physical abilities. It's her mental abilities. She isn't dedicated to fighting. She get's by on luck. IN a sense, she is like Peter Parker. IN the hands of someone who isn't wasting time trying to be a normal person. Their physical abilities would be SO much greater in the hands of someone with a dedication to saving lives.



I was thinking about what Ryu the OP should be using. Since he limited Buffy to certain seasons. I wondered what aspect of Ryu he should have used.

[Tvtyrant]

I played street fighter II and turbo as a kid, and I played street fighter IV when it came out so those are the versions I know well.

SfII doesn't have nearly as many special moves, so that is the version I have in my head. SFIV borders on shonen levels with the ultimates, I don't know about SFIII.

Any suggestions?

[Knaight]

Second even as a slayer, Buffy is a crappy one. She shirks her duties and responsibilities as the slayer. Kendra and Faith made far better slayers. I have never said it was a natural talent. I said she gets by based on she is the protagonist, and her ability to subvert troupes. She doesn't train and she does the least she can do as a slayer so she can attempt a life.

Kendra crumpled under the first piddling mental assault that went her way (which is not ideal given the number of demons which have those) and Faith made such a bad slayer that she outright betrayed the organization.

[Otomodachi]

I don't doubt her physical abilities. It's her mental abilities. She isn't dedicated to fighting. She get's by on luck. IN a sense, she is like Peter Parker. IN the hands of someone who isn't wasting time trying to be a normal person. Their physical abilities would be SO much greater in the hands of someone with a dedication to saving lives.

THIS, you are totally right about. Buffy isn't dedicated to "fighting", she's dedicated to PROTECTING. She stops evil. There's also the fact that, in the time-frame we're talking about, she isn't even old enough to drink, haha. She DOESN'T CARE about fighting, but she does care about stopping evil. Time and time again, you put her in a situation where she has to fight? She wins. Even when she kills herself, she wins, because her goal was to protect Dawnie.

[Red Fel]

In terms of Slayers, Buffy's only special quality is she was far less of a lone wolf than many other Slayers who just worked with their Watcher. While being Slayer gives you some good physical powers, they're clearly not THAT special. Spike killed two Slayers on his own and countless other Slayers have been killed by relatively normal Vampires. There's no indication that Buffy is any different, power level wise, than any of these past Slayers.

Actually, if we step away from the OP's constraints (up to Seasons 4-5), there actually is indication that she's different. I'm speaking of the (ugh) Twilight power, from the comics, also known as Season 8. Short version: Because Buffy did the one thing that no Slayer has ever done (she shared the power), blah blah child of prophecy blah blah, point is she basically became an unkillable god thanks to being sort of possessed by an otherworldly being who sought to birth itself into the world through her.

So, yeah. At that point, she's different than prior Slayers in terms of power. And even without that, you're right, she's different in that she's not a lone wolf - a fact which makes the First Slayer angry and causes her to attempt dream-murder on the Scoobies.

THIS, you are totally right about. Buffy isn't dedicated to "fighting", she's dedicated to PROTECTING. She stops evil. There's also the fact that, in the time-frame we're talking about, she isn't even old enough to drink, haha. She DOESN'T CARE about fighting, but she does care about stopping evil. Time and time again, you put her in a situation where she has to fight? She wins. Even when she kills herself, she wins, because her goal was to protect Dawnie.

This is a fair point, actually. Although I'll qualify it - time and time again, you put her in a situation where she has to fight, and she wins eventually. Don't forget that the Master killed her (albeit temporarily) the first time around.

But yeah. Her motivation is definitely to protect, not just to fight for the sake of fighting. Meaning that in a conflict with Ryu, she won't go all-out unless she is convinced of a real and imminent threat to someone else.

So, how do we do that? Well, somehow Ryu has gotten it into his head that Dawn (being a mystical being and all) is a new Bison vessel. Shouldn't be that hard, she's all weirdly mystical and stuff anyway. Well, Bison vessel's gotta die. So Ryu goes after Dawn. That will get Buffy's dander up. That will get her to fight at full.

So, Ryu has a reason to fight Buffy - so he can stop Bison. Buffy has a reason to fight Ryu - to protect Dawn. Now we can proceed. Taking all bets!

[Otomodachi]

Actually, if we step away from the OP's constraints (up to Seasons 4-5), there actually is indication that she's different. I'm speaking of the (ugh) Twilight power, from the comics, also known as Season 8. Short version: Because Buffy did the one thing that no Slayer has ever done (she shared the power), blah blah child of prophecy blah blah, point is she basically became an unkillable god thanks to being sort of possessed by an otherworldly being who sought to birth itself into the world through her............

...........So, how do we do that? Well, somehow Ryu has gotten it into his head that Dawn (being a mystical being and all) is a new Bison vessel. Shouldn't be that hard, she's all weirdly mystical and stuff anyway. Well, Bison vessel's gotta die. So Ryu goes after Dawn. That will get Buffy's dander up. That will get her to fight at full.

So, Ryu has a reason to fight Buffy - so he can stop Bison. Buffy has a reason to fight Ryu - to protect Dawn. Now we can proceed. Taking all bets!

Hah, yeah, I mentioned that a ways back, the Twilight Power. Puts her on roughly equal footing with (to my understanding) Ryu's powered-up evil version. Still, 12 bucks says they just end up banging in that scenario.

Man, if you put Buffy in a situation where her family is legitimately threatened she is gonna go all out. How TOUGH IS Ryu? I know he can do fireballs and some really incredible martial arts stuff, but for example can he shrug off a bullet? Like, I am serious, if Buffy is trying and even connects partially with a hit... I mean, you're talking broken bones, punching through ribs, serious damage. I don't know Ryu well enough- can he TAKE that kinda abuse, can be put up a hard block, or is he stuck redirecting every single attack?

In terms of Slayers, Buffy's only special quality is she was far less of a lone wolf than many other Slayers who just worked with their Watcher. While being Slayer gives you some good physical powers, they're clearly not THAT special. Spike killed two Slayers on his own and countless other Slayers have been killed by relatively normal Vampires. There's no indication that Buffy is any different, power level wise, than any of these past Slayers.

Actually, Buffy IS different from the other Slayers in that she was not indoctrinated by the Watcher Council. Having connections to the real world, having a connected life, even just idly wanting to have a normal life is GOOD for the Slayer. Being a Slayer is mostly mental, your mindset affects your ability to fight. The Spike tells the story about how he killed the other two Slayers, and what it boils down to, what he essentially ADMITS is, he didn't. They were just ready to die and he happened to be the one that was there. One bad day. Buffy is less vulnerable to this BECAUSE she has a real, organic support network. She is, mentally, WAY healthier than any previous Slayer.

[Kyberwulf]

LOL, how many times did Buffy fall victim to the bad guys? Heck not even people powerful enough just to put a whammy on her? How many guys just talked her into doing stuff? Buffy does this all the time. The only reason she survives is because she has friends to help her out.

I do believe Buffy betrayed the organization also.. not only that got one watcher fired and one watcher to also betray the organization? Not to mention, Buffy isn't the only one special enough to walk away from the slayer stuff? Not only that, Buffy betrays the people that follow her so many times.... .

Fighting, protecting.... tomato tomahto. .. You have a weird definition of the word.. dedication. She does it.. because she has to. Usually, only when someone she knows is affected. There are countless times when she finds out something is happen. And she would rather go do something else banal. How many deaths is she responsible for, becaue she stood by after finding out something is happening and she did nothing. Not only that, she was talking about boys, or shopping.

Ryu is the opposite...I don't think he would do anything to Buffys family. Even if he found out Bison did something or some other thing. He wouldn't care. IT's most of the other characters in street fighter that are actively fighting Bison. Ryu is just walking getting into fights, trying to become the best.

Ryu is dedicated... Buffy is the definition of irresponsible.


You're point about her being special is kind of moot. She isn't special because of anything she did or is. She is possessed by something else. meaning it is the thing giving her powers.

Sure her having a life outside of being a slayer is what saves her sometimes. It's also what puts other people at risk, even the network that is out there. How many times has she let the ones she loves influence who she saves?

[Chen]

Actually, if we step away from the OP's constraints (up to Seasons 4-5), there actually is indication that she's different. I'm speaking of the (ugh) Twilight power, from the comics, also known as Season 8. Short version: Because Buffy did the one thing that no Slayer has ever done (she shared the power), blah blah child of prophecy blah blah, point is she basically became an unkillable god thanks to being sort of possessed by an otherworldly being who sought to birth itself into the world through her.

So, yeah. At that point, she's different than prior Slayers in terms of power. And even without that, you're right, she's different in that she's not a lone wolf - a fact which makes the First Slayer angry and causes her to attempt dream-murder on the Scoobies.

I wasn't including the comics because there was all sorts of mystical extra crap that was done with the Scythe at the end of the series. At that point sure there's something different about her (and all Slayers or potentials really). Per the OPs post, she's not any different than the other Slayers in terms of physical prowess and we know those Slayers can be killed by regular vampires.

Its likely just huge inconsistency in the show I'd say. The super feats she does (like breaking concrete) don't match up with how she fights against Vampires OR other humans. Sometimes regular vampires almost kill her and other times the regular scoobies can kill those normal vampires. It's hard to take all that in mind for a single consistent power level.

[Red Fel]

Its likely just huge inconsistency in the show I'd say. The super feats she does (like breaking concrete) don't match up with how she fights against Vampires OR other humans. Sometimes regular vampires almost kill her and other times the regular scoobies can kill those normal vampires. It's hard to take all that in mind for a single consistent power level.

The inconsistency is generally attributed, as has been pointed out, to her mental state - when she's in the "zone," mentally and emotionally, her Slayer abilities are up to the task. When she's not, they falter. Rage is also a factor - Slayers do appear to be even stronger when they're furious. By contrast, negative emotional states (sadness, loneliness) seem able to reduce a Slayer's abilities - I think there was an episode after Buffy went off to college where she got thrashed by an amateur Vamp, simply because her loneliness threw her powers out of whack.

Man, if you put Buffy in a situation where her family is legitimately threatened she is gonna go all out. How TOUGH IS Ryu? I know he can do fireballs and some really incredible martial arts stuff, but for example can he shrug off a bullet? Like, I am serious, if Buffy is trying and even connects partially with a hit... I mean, you're talking broken bones, punching through ribs, serious damage. I don't know Ryu well enough- can he TAKE that kinda abuse, can be put up a hard block, or is he stuck redirecting every single attack?

Now, let's be clear - Buffy can't shrug off a bullet. She can heal quickly, but piercing weapons tend to damage Slayers just as well as they damage normal people. It's blunt impact that she can resist well, (she can shrug off getting hit by a car,) and unfortunately for Ryu, that's almost all he's packing. On the other hand, Slayers can be knocked out by blunt impact to the head, which has happened to Buffy on multiple occasions, so if Ryu sees his punches doing less damage, he might go for headshots. A Hadouken might work fine, once, but once she realizes he has fireballs, Buffy will watch out for that. Even then, she has withstood electrocution and Initiative blasters, a Hadouken might only annoy her.

Further, Buffy can heal mid-fight. She has recovered from injured arms in the middle of combat. Heck, she can recover from broken bones overnight.

Granted, she doesn't have the depth of training that Ryu has. If he goes for holds and joint-breaking moves (say, dislocating shoulders) instead of punches, he might be able to gain an advantage. But she can recover quickly if he doesn't press it. Also, she may hit hard - really hard - but Ryu has fought strong opponents before, and he knows the strategy that works. (Hint: They can't hurt what they can't hit.)

Really, assuming Buffy is properly motivated, I think it boils down to rocket tag. If Buffy can hit him enough, she will win, simply because of the power she packs. If Ryu can take out her joints or get a few good blows to the head, Buffy will drop, and he has the training to try that. It's just a question of who can do it first.

[lord_khaine]

Now, let's be clear - Buffy can't shrug off a bullet. She can heal quickly, but piercing weapons tend to damage Slayers just as well as they damage normal people. It's blunt impact that she can resist well, (she can shrug off getting hit by a car,) and unfortunately for Ryu, that's almost all he's packing. On the other hand, Slayers can be knocked out by blunt impact to the head, which has happened to Buffy on multiple occasions, so if Ryu sees his punches doing less damage, he might go for headshots. A Hadouken might work fine, once, but once she realizes he has fireballs, Buffy will watch out for that. Even then, she has withstood electrocution and Initiative blasters, a Hadouken might only annoy her.

I guess the relevant bit to add for slayer blunt/resistance is how far the car were moving? If it was not to fast or she got to roll with it, then it could potentially be shrugged off by even a normal human. Unlike a straight on impact.

Of course we also got the problem that a Hadouken vary about as much in power as Buffy's slayer strenght has. A least depending on what movie you look at. I guess the lowest possible setting might only serve to knock Buffy back. Though that is in itself a advantage for Ryu. He does have superior reach, but a disadvantage in strenght.