Results 31 to 60 of 619
Thread: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
-
2019-04-29, 01:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2019
- Location
- Somewhere over th rainbow
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
there is no way miko is going to mount celstia.
She is lawful stupid.
if tiamat believes wht sh is doing is good, it doea not make it good.
same applies to Miko.
-
2019-04-29, 04:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Gender
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
The nice fact about this for the Greenhilts is that Celia, in theory, could visit Roy after he croaks.
EDIT: I do not feel so sure about Miko being lawful. To what moral code was she adhering? "I am awesome, and you are all setting me up" doesn't strike me as one. True Neutral would be my (charitable) guess.Last edited by Vinyadan; 2019-04-29 at 04:14 AM.
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
-
2019-04-29, 04:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2019
- Location
- Somewhere over th rainbow
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
-
2019-04-29, 06:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
-
2019-04-29, 07:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
The OotSverse is blatantly unfair, so any claim that "X should work like Y because otherwise it'd be unfair" have no grounding whatsoever.
Also, Eugene is officially Lawful Good, as far as I'm aware, and despite everything we've ever seen of him.Attention LotR fans
Spoiler: LotRThe scouring of the Shire never happened. That's right. After reading books I, II, and III, I stopped reading when the One Ring was thrown into Mount Doom. The story ends there. Nothing worthwhile happened afterwards. Middle-Earth was saved.
-
2019-04-29, 09:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Singapore
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
"Death to evildoers" is a code. She clearly has a very rigid view of the world and how it ought to be. Also, it's worth remembering that we only saw a small part of her life - a Paladin can fall from one action, but it won't necessarily change their alignment. Most of her interactions with the OOTS were plainly from a lawful perspective, fixated on small and big rules.
To a certain extent her conspiracy-theories were a symptom of her excessive lawfulness, since she was obsessed with the idea that the entire world was run according to these rigid systems when it actually wasn't.
-
2019-04-29, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
Eugene considers himself LG, hence why he went to Celestia. He hasn't had his interview yet, because of the outstanding blood oath. Just like Roy almost got kicked down based on his actions, despite considering himself LG, Eugene almost certainly will actually get kicked down to true neutral.
-
2019-04-29, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
Pretty sure the Giant has said the exact opposite- that killing evil creatures for no good reason can actually make you change alignment in the wrong direction.
Well, admittedly, what he said was closer to "evil races are not INHERENTLY evil so their are Neutral and even Good aligned members of every race, particularly their children", which is why per Word of Giant the Paladins' who killed Redcloaks goblins all Fell when they massacred them.
Even so, I don't think there is anything in this comic that says that killing an evil creature without a good reason or at least a reasonable suspicion is anything other than Evil itself.
-
2019-04-29, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- The Land of Cleves
- Gender
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
If O-Chul or Hinjo screwed up royally (well, commonly, in O-Chul's case) at the end of their lives, that one screw-up might not be enough to shift them out of Lawful Good. But while Miko was good for most of her life, she was never very good. Even at her best, she tended to value Law over Good (see, for instance, the mattress tag). When you're close to the line, it doesn't take much to move you over it.
Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
-
2019-04-29, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2014
- Location
- A Michigan Far, Far Away
- Gender
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
That's why I think she did lose her Good status at the end. Roy already gave a pretty decent summing up of how she didn't really follow the precepts of Lawful Good here. Just following the letter of the alignment isn't good enough. She was fairly Lawful (except for the "taking the law into her own hands" moment at the end), but the only Good she really did, as Peelee points out, was killing Evil beings. I believe she was borderline Good, and the act of killing Shojo pushed her off.
-
2019-04-29, 11:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
-
2019-04-29, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
-
2019-04-29, 11:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2014
- Location
- A Michigan Far, Far Away
- Gender
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
-
2019-04-29, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Gender
-
2019-04-29, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
- Gender
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
Unfortunately my efforts to add new obsessions have failed
well, mostly failed
-
2019-04-29, 01:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
I don't think you can go that far. Even with in the comic she went out of her way to save the farmer despite delaying her mission. I don't think she demonstrated any sadism with killing evil creatures, even during her obsession with Belkar. If trying gets you credit in the after life, I would say she certainly was.
-
2019-04-29, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
-
2019-04-29, 03:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Singapore
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
That's not quite true.
While it's true that she kills Evil fairly indiscriminately, she was concerned that the OOTS may have killed a good dragon. She did care about fighting the ogres honorably (but found a strategically-effective way to do so.) Also, she saved people when the inn was burning down.
Remember, we kind of saw her at her worst, since the OOTS rubbed her the wrong way since the beginning.Last edited by Aquillion; 2019-04-29 at 03:36 PM.
-
2019-04-29, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
She also had the 'ride for the city to spread the alarm' moment there before the Battle of Azure City. The Giant explicitly called that out in commentary as her doing her duty as a paladin.
-
2019-04-30, 02:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2019
- Location
- Somewhere over th rainbow
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
-
2019-04-30, 04:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
- Gender
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
I think it's very likely that Miko gave generous alms, based on her dialogue and her lifestyle.
ungelic is us
-
2019-04-30, 04:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2019
- Location
- Somewhere over th rainbow
-
2019-04-30, 10:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Mangholi Dask
-
2019-04-30, 10:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2014
- Location
- A Michigan Far, Far Away
- Gender
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
We're talking about different stages of her character development. Also, bear in mind that people can do good things, without being strictly Good aligned. Even Evil Has Loved Ones.
There's no doubt she acted to warn Azure City because she cared about Azure City. But in the ogre battle, despite her concern to fight honorably, the main message that I took away is that she treated the OOTS as playing pieces to order as she needed them to act. V certainly took it that way. Not even hinting at her plan, expecting everyone to respond as she ordered without a question; that's not a Good "within the spirit of the alignment" attitude. It's extremely Lawful, though; "I am in charge, and you do what I say."
-
2019-04-30, 10:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
-
2019-04-30, 11:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- Ottawa, Canada
- Gender
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
If Julia remains True Neutral. At this point I think it’s just representative of the fact that she’s a self-absorbed teenager still figuring out who she wants to be. True Neutral is (among other things) a kind of ‘default’ alignment.
She may pick another alignment once she’s grown up a bit and decided what she wants her life to be about.
EDIT: Seriously, how does a thread that’s completely unrelated to Miko derail into a Miko argument within half a page?Last edited by LadyEowyn; 2019-04-30 at 11:20 AM.
-
2019-04-30, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
You cannot become a paladin with out being good. Trying to say she was anything but good before her fall is pointless, even if you find he behavior unpleasant. Being Paladin goes a step further in that they cannot commit evil acts, if they do they lose their powers and have to attone. It's entirely possible she was still good after her fall, as she had dedicated her life to good, despite her flaws.
-
2019-04-30, 11:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
-
2019-04-30, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
-
2019-04-30, 11:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.
All the points about Miko ending up on LN or other than LG just forget one thing: that entire sequence was basically, at most, a blip on the Deva's notes.
Even to Roy, the rules for being LG aren't hard and fast, it will likely come down to Miko was indeed trying to be her alignment of Lawful Good, to the best of her mortal understanding. Neither Roy, nor Miko, had to achieve the ideal LG to be allowed to the LG mountain. Even Roy got a pass on that evil thing he did when he was young, not to mention taking on Belkar and abandoning Elan. The review is a full review, and from what we've seen, takes into account the mortal aspect.
Hence, even Roy's father is hanging out outside the Mountain instead of some other afterlife. Even after impersonating a greater being.Last edited by Cinnibar; 2019-04-30 at 11:58 AM.