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2012-01-11, 01:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
Last edited by Nightmarenny; 2012-01-11 at 01:51 AM.
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2012-01-11, 02:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
If I gave examples, my posts would be massive. You want examples, ask. I'll give you all the examples you need.
I can place examples.
River pulls everyone out of the fire most markedly in Let's Kill Moffat by taking Amy and Rory out of the tessalecta and healing the doctor. Earlier she did so in day of the moon by shooting all the silent. And later in the Wedding of River Song by destroying history by not shooting the Doctor. Which was never explained how she stopped.
Smith does not actually use Buffyspeak. I misread the definition. Buffyspeak is referring to something as a thing. What's actually happenning is that there are less explanations. There's no explanation why River managed to stop the astronaut, no explanation what the thing in the god complex is and how it came there (minotaur in a prison ship isn't big enough), no explanation for those things in George's doll house and no explanation as to why the Silent kidnapped Amy. Less explanation means the Doctor's speeches are more about "emotion" and "the power of love" which gets old fast. This is not hypocritical. At least Tennant was explaining what he was doing.
And because there's more "emotion" (and it's in speech marks because tennant could provide emotion with the technobabble) the speeches sound more like anime speeches and anime threats. Sorry Terry, The Doctor giving anime style speeches is an intrinsic part of the show since 1969. Unless there's an increase I haven't noticed.
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2012-01-11, 02:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
Ok, first of all I did ask for examples. At least three times by my count.
Two, before I even go over the rest of the list I have to ask, how was River breaking reality in TWORS her pulling people out of the fire? Frankly I'm baffled. Literally nothing comes from that except the universe is almost destroyed.Last edited by Nightmarenny; 2012-01-11 at 02:59 AM.
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2012-01-11, 07:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
River didn't shoot the Doctor, which was a fixed point in time, which broke the time-line and caused everything to happen at once. She was either ignorant of the consequences of messing up a fixed point in time or knew and didn't care. But what I myself am wondering is this. The Doctor was supposed to get shot and die there, we a robot that looks like him was supposed to anyway. But for that to happen it had to first not happen to break the universe so they could find the solution, get the Doctor and River married and then do it? I'm not sure how that's supposed to work at all but there's a nagging in the back of my head that says it doesn't quite make sense that for a fixed point in time to happen it first needs to not happen so time itself breaks?
Also the 10th Doctor tended to get away with a lot more because he as an actor and RTD as a writer were better at playing on peoples emotions making them not care about the plot holes and sometimes repetitiveness. I'm not saying Smith is a worse actor than Tennant, but they have different styles, same with Moffat and RTD. I've kind of ended up comparing Tennant as the Doctor to Jim Carrey in most of his movies, both are pretty darn over the top, so much that you either love them or want to strangle them after a while. Nothing wrong with either opinion. :pLast edited by NikitaDarkstar; 2012-01-11 at 10:36 AM.
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2012-01-11, 09:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
Smith does a lot more of "Oh and the thing that does the stuff. Very important thing right there."
Spoiler
"I hate yogurt. It's just... stuff with bits in it."
"I'll do a thing."
When asked what he did to Apollo 11: The Doctor says, "A clever thing."
"A big mining thing, love a big mining thing. Rio doesn't have a big mining thing."
"Yes, it's Spacey Wacey!"
"It's a thing, it's like a plan but with more greatness."
"It's a thing in progress, don't question the thing."
Taken directly from TVTropes Buffy Speak page.
EDIT: Why did the Doctor have to marry River in TWORS? It was very unbelievable, because he'd just gotten extremely pissed at her, and then suddenly they were getting married.Last edited by Terry576; 2012-01-11 at 10:09 AM.
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2012-01-11, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
As for why the Silent kidnapped Amy, to get the baby. If they are setting up a fixed point in time where the doctor gets shot by River they needed to get River so they could program her to shoot him. That one is kind of obvious why it happened. It just took time for them to show enough of the series plot to figure it out, but it is not so obscure that they needed to spell it out.
The things in the doll house, that is where he "put" the things that frightened him. He put scary people in there but he also put less tangible things in there like the sound of the elevator that scared him. If he can put a sound in the doll house why not put a nightmare or some other monster that he believed in and was scared of.
The minotaur, no specific idea for other than monster of the week.
River not shooting him, in the speech she seemed to be older and know more of her history than one would think if she had been a young adult or child in the suit. The best explanation I had was she did what the Doctor says never do, crossed her own timeline. Go back in time to the time they put her in the suit, hide her younger self and have her older self take her own place. That combined with trying to change a fixed point probably didn't help when everything blew up.
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2012-01-11, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
The Doctor mentions its an off-shoot of the Nimon ( from the Old Who stroryline 'The Horns of the Nimon'). A species that convince other races they are gods/all powerful overlords in order to get them to feed them sacrifices.
He speculated that the race had over thrown the creature but hadn't dared slay their god and so had sent it into exile in deep space in a vehicle that would keep it aliveAll Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem
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2012-01-11, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-01-11, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
Very irregularly. Usually just something incredibly plotty happens right after he says them.
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2012-01-11, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
At the heart of all beauty lies something inhuman, and these hills, the softness of the sky, the outline of the trees at this very minute lose the illusory meaning with which we clothed them, henceforth more remote than a lost paradise.
-Camus, An Absurd Reasoning
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2012-01-11, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
I actually likes children in Doctor Who, mostly becuase I like the interaction with them and the Doctor -it's always cute (Neil Gaiman once said that Eleven is 11 and 900 years old at the same time, havin' him interacting with kids just emphasize that really well). It's the same reason I like River (Rather then just apathetic to her), her chemistry with Matt is really good (Much better then Rose and Ten, in my opinion, which never felt "Real" to me) and I liked the teasing\flirting between her and the doctor.
when did that happen? GIVE ME ONE EXAMPLE OF THIS HAPPENIG!
I don't see what's the problem with this idea. sure, Mels was pretty silly and was made only for OMG reaction from the viewers. But the idea of a Human Time Lord is not that far off
A new villain that works with The Silence, not everyone is someone.
Okay, so he BuffySpeak, why is this a bad thing?
It's part of his characterizations, people have their own way of speaking -and Eleven just happen to be a BuffySpeak person (I know a few of them personally) ,just like Ten had his Motor mouth Techno Babble. It's part of who they are as characters, and I think BuffySpeak fits Eleven VERY well
I think they meant in The Impossible Astronaut (just after she saw the eyepatch lady for the first time, so she wasn't replaced then) ,I guess they just "got" (from Amy's reaction) that Ganger!Amy can see Eyepatch, and tried to check for flaws in the Ganger (Then Doctor happened, of course)
Again, I think the question was about the creepy dolls specifically. They are cleary just a bunch of old dolls that creeped George out, so they were put in the cupboard, and 'cuase of George uncontroled alien Psychic powers and his fear, not only of the dolls themselves, but also of being different, abandonment and just general parnoia (and creepy nursery tunes ), it's not that hard to understand and I like itWe now stop this thread for this blatant self-promotion of my own webcomics
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2012-01-11, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
He gets married to her to...
1. Show her that he wouldn't die so she would feel less awful for killing him.
2. Because he loves her.
He's angry with her for caring about him more then the entire universe. A selfish but flattering quality and then is brought up to the observatory to discover that the reason she is holding back now isn't because she will let eternity die to escape her responsibility but because she wants to show him something.
She reminds him that all across the universe are people who would have done anything for the Doctor if he asks. She reminds him that he is loved. This touches the Doctor so he chooses to save River the grief and that he is ready to marry her.
In short, the wedding didn't so much happen for a plot reason but because the two characters reached the point that they were ready.
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2012-01-11, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
About fixed points in time.
Most likely the creators of the show don't have an answer stuff like this and the plot of "Blink" are likely filed under "time travel mechanics are complicated" and left alone. I do have a few theories though.
1. "The Silence Did It" We know from the time war that to much time travel over one event can "Time Lock" it so maybe one of the reasons for creating a new Time Lord was Time Locking the Doctors death. Though who knows how you'd do that.
2. "Its a "Blink" style time loop" Ok so it's silly to suggest that in "Blink" the transcript just came out of know where. What we are most likely seeing is the end result of several layers of communication between the Doctor and the girl until it reached this stable time loop. So maybe the first time the Doctor really did die on that spot for reasons we can no long see but then times change. The Doctor starts to hear about his death before it happens, perhaps the love story between River and The Doctor didn't happen the first time around. So things change little by little until the stable time loop we see at the end is established.
3. "The Universe did it" There appears to be some sort of force sentient or other wise guiding history. If this force is forcing a specific out come maybe the Doctors "death" was simply always there. We know that there are prophecies and that his fake death played into them after-all.
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2012-01-11, 07:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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On things timey wimey
9 talks about a bit, 10 a few times as well and probably none of it agrees with the rest (though to the Doctor's PoV it's possibly all correct or he's just lying or...). The real test is is it entertaining, but that's subjective (except you're wrong if you don't think it nearly always is lol).
Of course the Doctor loves to bootstrap paradox anyway :)
Water of Mars as a fixed point has some story fail to me. Adelaide(?) not dying wouldn't preclude that future from unfolding and there's other obvious ways out (the T in TARDIS).
Lake Silencio has a lot going on--all the non-River past action begins there or in other words all Series 6 stuff (unless Amy was yoinked before that), and changing that...well on a large scale probably only the 1969 story-line. Which is pretty big and all, but since it rewrites many past events covered in the show oy. Don't think Moffat should have gone there.
I can talk more interestingly about other time-loop/paradox/wimey stuff but Lake Silencio... Well, except what I see the unchangeable result being is that nearly everyone thinks the Doctor dies there, and what that causes others to do. Of course the Doctor scoffs at our understanding of cause/effect anyway all the time too :) Oh, I'd never scoff about it not being a beautiful location...well only if really, really drunk.Last edited by LokeyITP; 2012-01-11 at 07:37 PM.
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2012-01-13, 12:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
Originally Posted by Terry576
Meanwhile, River just fixes the teleporter and beams Amy straight to them. The teleporter that the Doctor said was useless. And River fixes it, in moments. I don't think she even Sonics it (though I might be mis-remembering that bit).
I reckon that counts as an example of dumbing down Eleven just to let River shine.
While we're on the topic of River's amazing abilities, what about this, from The Day of the Moon. Skip forward to 04:54: River shoots a Silent. A Silent who is stood behind her, where she can't see it. According to Moffat's own rules, she shouldn't be able to remember that it's there, and yet, because she is River, she can.
Oh, and the Doctor apparently approves of her gunplay.Last edited by Senator Cybus; 2012-01-13 at 12:42 AM.
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2012-01-13, 12:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
I'd have to rewatch the episodes to comment on the rest of your post, but as for the Doctor's approval of guns I see no problem with that. The Doctor's attitude toward guns varies greatly from incarnation to incarnation and includes rabid anti-gun stances (10 in Turn Left) and being perfectly fine using them, I'm pretty sure it was 5 and 6 who used them on a few occasions. Also many companions used guns on a regular basis, including the Major, other members of UNIT and Ace. Him being fine with River shooting a Silent isn't something that contradicts the characterization of the Doctor in any way.
At the heart of all beauty lies something inhuman, and these hills, the softness of the sky, the outline of the trees at this very minute lose the illusory meaning with which we clothed them, henceforth more remote than a lost paradise.
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2012-01-13, 01:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
There is a Canon reason for River being better at the technobabble than the Doctor in DoctorDonna and her whole human spark of ingenuity speech. Doesn't mean you have to like it though.
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2012-01-13, 03:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
She knows she is there to kill silence, knows everybody is in the Tardis(because you just forget the Silence not the other things that happen) so when she hears a noise behind her she shoots. The Doctors opinion on guns changes depending on the Doctor. I assume sense your even bringing this up you haven't seen much of the older who so I'll use an example from new who. Doctor Nine. While in "The Doctor Dances" the Doctor does replace Jacks gun with a Banana he also has him use it to open a door and shows no real concern for it until he tries to use it unnecessarily. However at the season 1 closer Jack and an entire squad use guns against the Daleks and in both that episode and "Daleks" he gives people tips on how to shoot Daleks in the best spot to kill them.
Tennants Doctor is actually unusual for having the Doctor standard pacifism turned way up. I know of no Doctor as hateful of guns and who gives people so many chances before genocide. Most doctors give one. Tennant's nearly got killed several times because he kept going "are you sure?".
As for the Flesh and Stone you can't say the Doctor was stupid for asking Amy to do what he did. It was working. So clearly not so bad an idea. As for the Teleporter he doesn't say he can't fix it he says River is wasting her time she can't fix it. He was busy working on other stuff at the time. Finally even if you read the Doctors line as "nobody can fix it" it wouldn't be the first time the Doctor has said he couldn't work out something and then did but again he was busy.
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2012-01-13, 03:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
according to Tv Tropes
1. One had a gun once or twice, not sure if he used them
2. Two was given a gun in "Tomb of the Cybermen", never used it , but never seemed to have a problem with it (also, THIS)
3. Three never used a gun, but pretty much all of his supporting cast used them, and he never seemed to have a problem with them (at least not Ten-levels problem)He had a problem, but not Ten-level problem
4. I think Four used guns from time to time, and his objection of Leela's knife-happyness sometimes seemed... token
5. Five shot a cyberman about 12 times (but that could be, like 10 , just to show stuff was desperate), IIRC he killed that shape-changing robot with a gun
6. Six was VERY gun-happy (Tv Tropes list Attack of the Cybermen as a good exmple, but I havn't seen this one yet)
7. Seven never used a gun himself, but (Like Three) never had a problem with his companion blowing up enemies with explosives
8. In his one (crappy) story, Eight aimed a gun at himself, so I'm not sure if that count
9. Nine had a gun in his hands twice, never got to used them
So I'm not seeing the problem with Eleven being okay with River's guns, it's not like it's anything new (and he's already more "Classic Series" Doctor then 10 or 9)Last edited by littlekKID; 2012-01-13 at 05:32 PM.
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2012-01-13, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
I agree with the others, but this is only half-true. While Three accepted that humans needed to defend themselves sometimes, he was quite disdainful of UNIT's gun-happy attitudes, and frequently avoided telling the Brigadier what he was up to specifically so that no guns would get involved in a situation. (The really high point for this was when the Brigadier went behind the Doctor's back and committed genocide, a fact which Three was understably upset about.)
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2012-01-13, 05:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
I have to agree, I don't see an issue with Eleven accepting River using a gun, I would have had issues if it was Ten we were talking about, but Eleven? He hasn't voiced his opinion on them at all and seems rather neutral about it.
Ten seemed to be more an exception from the rule, but in-character he also seemed much more effected by the time-war than 9th or 11th ever showed, and fed up with death and killing in general, thus not a huge fan of weapons.
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2012-01-13, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
Well, it's still more then what Ten would've allowed but you're right (I've seen a lot of Three serials, I can't believe I got it wrong).
EDIT: also
Well, Ten was clearly more effected then Eleven, but I'm not so sure about Nine - Ten was quick to metion his origins as a threat, where it took Nine two episodes before he told Rose, His judgment in the Gelth problem was clearly blurred by his guilt and don't even get me started on "Dalek".
I think they were effected in the same level, it's just that their Different personalities lead them to do different things with this guiltLast edited by littlekKID; 2012-01-13 at 06:18 PM.
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2012-01-13, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
I like to think of Nine as rage/PTSD Doctor while Ten was guilt/sadness Doctor. Yeah there are overlaps, Family of Blood definitely shows Ten's rage and the aforementioned Gelth episode has a lot of Nine guilt in it, but that seems to be the general trend. Now Eleven seems to go the if "I ignore it and have awesome adventures everything will be better" route, but a few episodes have really shown the weight and loneliness he is dealing with and suppressing.
At the heart of all beauty lies something inhuman, and these hills, the softness of the sky, the outline of the trees at this very minute lose the illusory meaning with which we clothed them, henceforth more remote than a lost paradise.
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2012-01-13, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
To me 9 is a direct reaction to war. He is angry and spiteful with his humor. It tends to be blacker and has more bite to it. Looking at Dalek and the finale we see that 9 no longer feels any restriction from killing when it comes to Daleks. He truly hates them.
10 is a reaction to the aftermath of the war. Rose has showed him how far he has fallen and he wants to rise back up. So he is unusually pacifistic. Desperate to avoid the kind of behavior the other Doctors wouldn't bat an eye at. He can be cruel but he's unwilling to kill. Look at the end of the episode "The poison Sky" he creates his doomsday weapon and then warns the enemy to leave and they refuse. Most Doctors would consider that enough and hit the switch but he doesn't, he can't. He begs them over and over again and it seems for a moment he is going to let the earth die rather then kill them. 10 is definitely more over the war then 9 as we see in Manhattan that he is willing to try to save them if he can but he is still in recovery. I think in the two finale's he see's the problem with his approach and sort of balances out with 11.
11 has recovered from the war and its effects on him and now turns his mind to what he lost. The doctor searches for and creates a surrogate family and the only time we see him get scary(Family of blood scary) is "when a good man goes to war" when someone has threatened that family.
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2012-01-13, 11:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
Personally I wouldn't even begin to compare those two episodes because to me Family of Blood is far, far better and conveys that rage and scary factor far, far better (without absurd amounts of special effects), but I'll agree that while it didn't come across as well, yes it's at least intended to be on similar levels. Someone, somewhere crossed a line they shouldn't have crossed and made the Doctor truly angry, and someone's going to regret it. It's just a shame they went all Hollywood on the effects, it ended up taking away from it in my opinion, the intent was clear but I didn't end up feeling what they wanted me to feel. (Sorry, but Matt Smith doesn't do "angry" that well. :p)
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2012-01-14, 12:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
Just popping to say that I always interpreted the Dalek/River 'mercy' scene as a half-dead, barely conscious Dalek desperately holding on to the last idea it was able to grasp, as it completely fails to properly interpret the scene.
In other words, it wasn't 'please! Mercy, please!' it was 'what's going on? Why aren't you showing mercy? And why can't I think straight?'
And, of course, the focus on the word drew attention to the fact that she wasn't giving it, and therefore foreshadowed her villain phase.
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2012-01-14, 02:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
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2012-01-14, 04:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
I'm not so sure that last thing count, I mean, even Fivey did it
Originally Posted by Castrovalva
EDIT: And now, Doctor Who parody Worst of the Time Lords' theory about Ten's anti-gunnessLast edited by littlekKID; 2012-01-14 at 08:52 AM.
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2012-01-14, 08:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
The Big Bang: just when I thought I had this time travel thing figured out.
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2012-01-15, 11:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]
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