OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

[mr-mercer]

I do think you're on to something there: as you say it would certainly be in keeping with the themes presented, and it would make sense for a newly-minted vampire's former closest friends to become its most bitter enemies.

(No, this post was not an excuse to run through a bunch of nicknames for The Corpse Formerly Known as Durkon.)

Even so, I can respect your bravery in fighting the good fight on finding new names for Kyle, even if none of them will ever top Gareth.

[Ruck]

Even so, I can respect your bravery in fighting the good fight on finding new names for Kyle, even if none of them will ever top Gareth.

I did, at least, stick with names used in #1030.

[dtilque]

We interrupt this thread for an important health announcement.

So it's time for a discussion of the physical effects of the Meld into Stone spell?

[Reboot]

I remember Buffy the Vampire Slayer, or maybe Angel, developing a bit on that rule. If a house had been left uninhabited, or only inhabited by beings without a soul, for a long time, then it was no longer warded against vampires. This a power souls have over the place they make their home, even if they do not realize it.

You could still ruin it all just by having a doormat with "Welcome" on it, or something like that.

Now, I don't remember Buffy's vampires having a problem with crossing running water or counting fallen grains (except for one who already had that OCD as a human).

Well, it was never quite clear what the powers of Buffyverse vampires were. They could shift between the face of the original human they inhabited and a "demon face" (with fangs); they were super-strong (though as with most live-action shows where the stunts were done in-camera by actual stuntmen how-strong-is-strong wasn't clear since the stuntmen weren't super-strong); they healed quicker/better than humans, although not instantly, and that was about it. I think there may have been one or two spider-climb instances, and there were one-off vamps with extra powers (Drusilla, Dracula - yeah, they went there).

[Mandor]

....
The vampire begins its existence as "your worst day, personified" and then progressively turns itself into an evil version of all that you were, by absorbing your very soul into itself. What is interesting about that premise is that the vampire's evil is the soul's evil, and eventually the two entities will become one. More of a digestion than a fusion, yes, but what if there is very little to digest?
....

This is highly probable to be accurate. But I always approach things explained by evil characters in a webcomic who thrive on being a distortion of the truth with a few grains of salt. Greg said this to Durkon in part to browbeat Durkon into just surrendering. Now, it may have been absolute pure unstilled truth. Or, it may not have been, and just a convienent lie for the vampire to torment his host with.

Now it's probably true, because, if nothing else, it also lets Rich give us some exposition into how these things work in Stick-verse without having to go totally fourth wall on us, or without having to post the Technical Specs of Vampirism, as a forum thread. But, you never know when a character in a story is choosing to simply LIE. We have very small statistical samples to work with, so a degree of doubt or mental hedging is not entirely unwarranted.

[nbLurkerAbove]

What if this room isn't on the other side of that door? The way I see it, Durkon didn't like the first request ("Show me a memory that gives me a good view of the room on the other side of this door") so he tricked the spirit into giving him a new request ("Give me a useful memory"). This would also explain Durkon's comment ("Thar's definitely a use fer it").

So my theory is that instead of showing the, for example, unguarded and unwarded room on the other side, Durkon showed him the most warded room in the temple. Does this make sense?

[danielxcutter]

What if this room isn't on the other side of that door? The way I see it, Durkon didn't like the first request ("Show me a memory that gives me a good view of the room on the other side of this door") so he tricked the spirit into giving him a new request ("Give me a useful memory"). This would also explain Durkon's comment ("Thar's definitely a use fer it").

So my theory is that instead of showing the, for example, unguarded and unwarded room on the other side, Durkon showed him the most warded room in the temple. Does this make sense?

Huh... that works too. I suppose that whatever the truth is, we all believe that Durkon is abusing the exact wording then?

[Keltest]

Well, it was never quite clear what the powers of Buffyverse vampires were. They could shift between the face of the original human they inhabited and a "demon face" (with fangs); they were super-strong (though as with most live-action shows where the stunts were done in-camera by actual stuntmen how-strong-is-strong wasn't clear since the stuntmen weren't super-strong); they healed quicker/better than humans, although not instantly, and that was about it. I think there may have been one or two spider-climb instances, and there were one-off vamps with extra powers (Drusilla, Dracula - yeah, they went there).

They were also unkillable if you didn't use one of their metaphorical silver bullets and generally immune to anything that targets a soul.

The biggest danger from them is that if they don't do something stupid, like pick a fight with a Slayer or Vampire Hunter, they could live hundreds or even thousands of years, and develop hundreds of years worth of resources and contingency plans to bring against you.

[ReturnOfTheKing]

Late, but wow, Rich has been on fire lately! It's like his update rate has just skyrocketed in the past two weeks or so. I hope this streak lasts!

[goto124]

I'll also admit it's kinda weird seeing so many dwarven men with hair in this page alone.

It occured to me that while dwarven men may lack hair on the top side of their heads, none of them lack hair on their chins. Even the young boys.

[JumboWheat01]

It occured to me that while dwarven men may lack hair on the top side of their heads, none of them lack hair on their chins. Even the young boys.

Knowing dwarves, they were probably born with beards. Which would be both weird and awesome at the same time.

[137beth]

What if this room isn't on the other side of that door? The way I see it, Durkon didn't like the first request ("Show me a memory that gives me a good view of the room on the other side of this door") so he tricked the spirit into giving him a new request ("Give me a useful memory"). This would also explain Durkon's comment ("Thar's definitely a use fer it").

So my theory is that instead of showing the, for example, unguarded and unwarded room on the other side, Durkon showed him the most warded room in the temple. Does this make sense?

Interesting. It's also possible that the room we just saw is the one HPoH wanted, but the wards on it in the memory were mostly temporary. If Durkon knows the room is usually not as well defended as it is now, he could have picked a memory that he knew would fool HPoH while still technically showing him the correct room.

[SaintRidley]

Presumably, all the Creed vampires are Durkon's thralls. He spawned all of them, so they'll remain under his control until his own destruction. According to the SRD, a vampire can control as many spawn as they have hit dice times 2 and, given that a high-level Cleric like Durkon would already have quite a large amount of hit dice, a number that would only be increased by becoming a Vampire, he has quite a lot of those.

The Vampire template adds no hit dice.

[Quebbster]

What if this room isn't on the other side of that door? The way I see it, Durkon didn't like the first request ("Show me a memory that gives me a good view of the room on the other side of this door") so he tricked the spirit into giving him a new request ("Give me a useful memory"). This would also explain Durkon's comment ("Thar's definitely a use fer it").

So my theory is that instead of showing the, for example, unguarded and unwarded room on the other side, Durkon showed him the most warded room in the temple. Does this make sense?

I was thinking the same thing, but couldn't quite express it in a concise manner.
We already know Durkon can tell the truth in a deceptive manner, so it does seem likely Greg just got tricked.

[factotum]

I'm not sure the rules apply to vehicles in the same way they do to homes. At least, that's the best explanation I can offer.

The cabin Vaarsuvius etc. were housed in was presumably a guest cabin aboard the Mechane, so it would really count as a public area. The vampire might not have been able to enter, say, Bandana's cabin because that really is her home. That's how I see it, anyroad.

[Kantaki]

It occured to me that while dwarven men may lack hair on the top side of their heads, none of them lack hair on their chins. Even the young boys.

A dwarf without beard is a dwarf without honour.
Wait, no, that was another universe. And possibly the other way around.

[factotum]

A dwarf without beard is a dwarf without honour.

...or a woman?

[goto124]

...or a woman?

Not in OotS, at least...

[Toofey]

I like the detail of the on Vampiric Dwarf still being a Dwarf and getting angry at the door for not serving it's function.

[Keltest]

Not in OotS, at least...

Without. Not with.

[Bedinsis]

I wonder if we'll soon see the room where Miko entered. Or if that was a different place then the one they are at now. Different hinges in that case.

If it is true that Durkon is trying to trick Durkon* by showing a memory when there were different wards, is it more likely that they would have laxer control on the day that outsiders(in this case, Durkon's extended family) came to visit (since they don't want to accidentally hurt someone there unfamiliar with how things usually work) or harder control (since they want to show their church on its best side when they have strangers to impress/when an initiation ritual is in place).

[wumpus]

Door, huh! (North Gods, y'all!) What is it good for? Aggravatin' vampires!

Supposedly taking languages such as "door" was a thing in 0e D&D (or at least mentioned in a classic Dragon reprint*). One DM recounted a player taking "wall" to ask what was on the other side in dungeons. The only response he gave was "I don't know, I'm plastered".

* Best of Dragon vol 1. One of my favorite TSR products since you could see how AD&D went together in a way previously lost to those who missed it.

[Quebbster]

I wonder if we'll soon see the room where Miko entered. Or if that was a different place then the one they are at now. Different hinges in that case.

If it is true that Durkon is trying to trick Durkon* by showing a memory when there were different wards, is it more likely that they would have laxer control on the day that outsiders(in this case, Durkon's extended family) came to visit (since they don't want to accidentally hurt someone there unfamiliar with how things usually work) or harder control (since they want to show their church on its best side when they have strangers to impress/when an initiation ritual is in place).

Miko probably didn't enter through the door the vampires are at. For one thing, the High Priest of Thor may not be based in Firmament. And even if Miko was in Firmament, the High Priest mentions that it's a private exit for the priests of Thor to observe the weather - as Miko came there in an official capacity she likely used the main gate. The private exit does seem like an excellent place for the vampires to try to sneak into the temple though.

[8BitNinja]

I always thought it represented something like this. Note that the High Priest of Thor is only seen wearing it when she's also wearing armour.

I think that you are right and that I am misinterpreting things

[mistersticky]

It's a door that want's to be a wall!

As the trans community has taught us, that means it actually is a wall

[Roland Itiative]

This strip made me wonder if Durkon giving up would accelerate the process of him being completely absorbed, as opposed to trying to resist at every point and assert his own personality.

Also, great comic, as always :P

[factotum]

This strip made me wonder if Durkon giving up would accelerate the process of him being completely absorbed, as opposed to trying to resist at every point and assert his own personality.

I don't think he gets "absorbed". From what Durkula has said in the past, once he's extracted all the useful memories Durkon will go into a state of "eternal quiescence" which would presumably end if the vampire were destroyed, releasing Durkon's spirit to its proper afterlife. He remains a separate entity throughout.

[Ruck]

The cabin Vaarsuvius etc. were housed in was presumably a guest cabin aboard the Mechane, so it would really count as a public area. The vampire might not have been able to enter, say, Bandana's cabin because that really is her home. That's how I see it, anyroad.

That makes sense, too.

[wumpus]

As the trans community has taught us, that means it actually is a wall

Well at least opening the door is a profoundly evil act. Presumably while Greg & Grumpy are so eager to open it.

[Ruck]

Don't feed the "registered an account today to do nothing but complain about trans people" troll.