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2011-05-05, 08:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Hmm, now that I look at the errata'd version of One Weapon 2 Blows, it also seems way too good, especially as the first charm in the tree.
Also, our group has been using the Armorium for weapons, as the crazy damage you get from a Grand Goremaul and the like is just ridiculous. Good idea? Bad?
One further note: Without Grand Killsticks like the goremaul, is melee still "Perfect or die"? Say if one was using the Armorium Grand Daiklave*? Or a more speed oriented weapon like the Reaper Daiklave**?
* (Speed 6 Accuracy 1 Damage 12L/4 Defense 3 Rate 2 Minimums 3 Cost 3 Attune 8 Tags 2, O, R)
**(Speed 4 Accuracy 3 Damage 5L Defense 0 Rate 3 Minimums 2 Cost 2 Attune 5 Tags None)
EDIT: Grr, after all my work formatting that it doesn't recognize spaces! Silly me. Currently making readable.Last edited by Tael; 2011-05-05 at 08:34 PM.
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2011-05-05, 08:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Quite so, sadly.
User's strategy is going to be different, but overall, it's not going to help; looking at the Grand Daiklave, it's still pretty much perfect-or-die. The strategy for Reaper Daiklave, on the other hand, will be to ping the opponent to death.Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 2011-05-05 at 08:36 PM.
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2011-05-05, 08:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Yeah, Melee is still perfect or die. Slightly lower base threshold, but still there.
BEEP.
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2011-05-05, 08:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- The Elemental Pole of Oil
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2011-05-05, 08:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Well, with an Armorium Grand Daiklave instead of an original Grand Goremaul, you lose piercing, 4 damage, and gain 1 speed. I also find some of the rest a bit unlikely (Hearthstone Braces on a melee based Build? 5 Str would leave you with 1 stamina, which is turning the game into perfect or die, and I've never even heard of that Harmonizer), turning the 32L Piercing into 21-24L non piercing. Which is only going to be like 11 or so damage dice against decent soak.
Also, since all of the Armorium Grand Gore____ are acc -1 and def -3, you're unlikely to even hit against an opponent with a good parry, and your own defenses will be pathetic.Last edited by Tael; 2011-05-05 at 08:46 PM.
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2011-05-05, 08:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-05-05, 08:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
What's wrong with that?
...assuming you haven't bought one or more of your other Attributes up with bonus points, or utilized any of a dozen other ways to start with a high Strength...
Fivefold Harmonic Adapter's in Wonders of the Lost Age, a one-dot artifact that sticks onto another artifact, allowing you to attune to it normally regardless of whatever magical material it is.
If you're getting hit at all (let alone being dealt damage), you're already in hot water. Wound penalties can be devastating, and that's not counting other stuff like poisons on the weapon, various bad touch effects, et cetera.Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 2011-05-05 at 08:50 PM.
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2011-05-05, 08:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Awesome Cyborg Doom Monkey avatar by Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins. Offer up your robo-bananas to him.
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2011-05-05, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Just seems kind of wasteful. I mean, you're not going to be utilizing the dodge part, which is kind of the bigger part.
...assuming you haven't bought one or more of your other Attributes up with bonus points, or utilized any of a dozen other ways to start with a high Strength...
Fivefold Harmonic Adapter's in Wonders of the Lost Age, a one-dot artifact that sticks onto another artifact, allowing you to attune to it normally regardless of whatever magical material it is.
If you're getting hit at all (let alone being dealt damage), you're already in hot water. Wound penalties can be devastating, and that's not counting other stuff like poisons on the weapon, various bad touch effects, et cetera.
All in all it's still just maybe 15 dice of damage, and 3 Health levels is far from perfect or die, especially when you use Ox-Bodies = to stamina.
In my experience, combat is Exalted has been dangerous, but nowhere near perfect or die. Only one of the players in my game actually has a perfect, and he doesn't even have it in a combo.
Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm
If my players tried to use a paranoia combo every turn, they would be Willpower tapped before the second fight. How do players generate enough WP to do this?Last edited by Tael; 2011-05-05 at 09:02 PM.
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2011-05-05, 09:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
exalted paranoia combat assumes you can get your 2die stunt on the attack and defense, so 1wp+4m per "cycle".
BEEP.
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2011-05-05, 09:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
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2011-05-05, 09:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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- The Fortress of Solitude
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2011-05-05, 09:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
If you get into the description, 2d is not hard. 1d is just anything more than "I attack", sooo...
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2011-05-05, 09:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Sure you are! The Melee perfect has the gaping hole in that it doesn't work if you don't have a weapon in your hand, plus the fact that it's still vulnerable to sneak attacks in a way that SAM doesn't truly patch; you can always dodge, if you've got SSE and RST. Might as well go ahead and pump Dodge as well.
Your opponent has a bunch of mutations that makes him bigger and badder? Order-Affirming Blow leaves him wondering why he spent all those years in the Wyld. And that's off the top of my head.
Then it's ping death.
I've been trying to avoid it, as well as that dreadful mindset, but then again, my ST's been running a game for our old 400-xp characters again...
Stunting. Charms. Stunting and Charms.
Sorry.
A 1-die stunt is simply being descriptive. A 2-die stunt is descriptive in a way that uses the environment. You can generate a 2-die stunt every action.Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 2011-05-05 at 09:12 PM.
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2011-05-05, 09:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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2011-05-05, 09:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Paranoia combat is extremely high optimization, rules as written Exalted. The main problem with this, and why you can't just dismiss it as theoretical optimization, it's quite possible to get to a situation where you need paranoia combat stuff to just survive. It is, in fact, the logical extrapolation of Exalted combat mechanics. And you can't just fix it with a single thing, as the entire system is incredibly shaky and balanced on a variety of different mechanics. The developers likened it to an elephant standing on a bunch of thin poles. Change one of them, and it'll fall off.
Also, by RAW, a 2-die stunt is just a description that includes the environment. Not that hard to get.Awesome Cyborg Doom Monkey avatar by Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins. Offer up your robo-bananas to him.
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2011-05-05, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
I know there are charms to increase dice, but what charms increase ratings?
I guess I'm just stingy then. Re-reading the stunting section, I can see that something as simple as "I Flip over the table and stab him between the shoulderblades" is 2 dice, but there's no way that that should be more than 1 dice IMO.
EDIT: Blarg, too many people posting. Updating now.Last edited by Tael; 2011-05-05 at 09:15 PM.
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2011-05-05, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Thought of the Week: "Bright is the nova confined in the dark."
=I= ONLY A FOOL CLAIMS TO KNOW EVERYTHING BUT FEAR NOTHING =I=
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2011-05-05, 09:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
What negative consequences does using the Armorium, Ox-Bodies = to Stam, and harder stunting have? Not trying to be aggressive here, just curious.
I can see that. Very expensive if you want to do non-combat stuff though.
Your opponent has a bunch of mutations that makes him bigger and badder? Order-Affirming Blow leaves him wondering why he spent all those years in the Wyld. And that's off the top of my head.
Then it's ping death.
I've been trying to avoid it, as well as that dreadful mindset, but then again, my ST's been running a game for our old 400-xp characters again...
Stunting. Charms. Stunting and Charms.
I can guess where the last one is from, but sources on the others?Last edited by Tael; 2011-05-05 at 09:22 PM.
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2011-05-05, 09:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Bleargh, misread your post (somehow) as just dealing 3 damage.
Still, high-end Exalted combat still works out in a very small number of ways.
1) You hit the opponent with some status effect that he hasn't bought a defense against (for one reason or another) that utterly ruins him with little to no chance of resisting.
2) You perfect until one of you runs out of motes, and then:
a) You hit the opponent with an arbitrary amount of damage, spattering him to gibbets in one glorious attack.
b) You hit the opponent with an arbitrary number of attacks that whittle his health down to nothing, spattering him to gibbets in a whirlwind of slightly-less-glorious attacks.
And assigning more health levels just makes these four-hour slugfests take longer.
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2011-05-05, 09:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Also keep in mind that, even if you heap on a bunch of unofficial patches to fix the combat system, you still have pretty terrible social, mass combat, and nation building systems where any things resembling interesting roleplaying mechanics are few and far between.
At best, you've fixed the Exalted system into being a kind of janky pseudo-tactical fantasy combat simulator that still takes hours of real time to resolve anything.
Which, is sorta okay if you have really low standards for tactical combat games. And still does nothing for you if you were hoping to interact with the Exalted world on any level not having to do with direct physical violence.Last edited by Xefas; 2011-05-05 at 09:33 PM.
5e D&D Mythos Classes
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2011-05-05, 09:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-05-05, 09:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 2011-05-05 at 09:37 PM.
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2011-05-05, 09:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Heh, so far my players have been very unoptimized, but they're learning fast.
One of my normally unoptimized players keeps stumbling upon crazy awesome stuff (Violet Bier of Sorrows, Nice combination of Archery w/ Magma Revolvers and Sail buffs) while the normally good optimizer has been flunking out (Generalist spread way too thin, Celestial Monkey practitioner learning Sorcery. That right, Celestial Monkey style and Sorcery.) I expect them to start pumping out pretty powerful stuff soon though, so I need to prepare.
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2011-05-05, 09:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
MoEP: Infernals, and the Scroll of Errata, DotFA Section
Thought of the Week: "Bright is the nova confined in the dark."
=I= ONLY A FOOL CLAIMS TO KNOW EVERYTHING BUT FEAR NOTHING =I=
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2011-05-05, 09:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
In a team up between Xanatos (Gargoyles), Lex Luthor, Dr. Doom, HamilJoker and Ebon Dragon, who would be the first to screw over the others?
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2011-05-05, 10:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-05-05, 10:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-05-05, 10:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Dr. Doom would have sculpted an intricate and masterful betrayal that would unravel itself only after he and his compatriots had finished whatever the objective was that had brought them together in the first place.
The Ebon Dragon would immediately forget their original intentions and stab Dr. Doom in the back of the head just for the hell of it. Which would set off the C4 the Joker had implanted in Dr. Doom's skull the night before while he was sleeping.
The survivors would wipe the remaining brain goo off of themselves and glance around, only to realize that Lex Luther had gotten bored and left eight minutes ago to chase after Superman, regardless of his relevance to their current schemes.
Xanatos would shrug and go back to his smoking hot wife to live a life of contentment and luxury, attaining ultimate victory by default.5e D&D Mythos Classes
General Rules
Swordbearer Class
Cynosure Class
Mechanikos Class
Adversary Class
Discussion Thread
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2011-05-05, 10:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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