On being judged for your hobbies....

[SaintRidley]

Hobbies are tricky. I find it easiest to wait until I know a bit more about the person before revealing any of my more esoteric hobbies.

That's called slicing each piece in half...

That's dividing eight slices into sixteen, not multiplying them.

[RVallant]

I do reveal my hobbies, and I use them to decide who I should waste my time with.

I bumped into this lady in the pub the other day, I was with an older mate (he's 60, he outdrinks 20 year olds on shorts for crying out loud!) and my girlfriend. And we got chatting cos I was trying to sort the wi-fi out on my mobile phone.

She asked what I was into, and I said 'video games', and she hit back 'oh get a life'.

Right, cos watching television is any better. /sigh.

There's a lot of that ridiculous attitude, as if you're somehow wasting your life, or doing something inherently 'bad' for not conforming to whatever they're interested in. But, having seen the opinions thrown around on the internet, about all sorts of stuff, from hentai, to anime, to video games, I'm not entirely surprised that some people are that closed minded. I usually try and hold some form of discourse with them, in fact a few of them even get into those hobbies once they try them out, but I know not to waste my time with those that would have their minds barred and locked.

[Frozen_Feet]

In my experience, for any given hobby there's a crowd of people with bizarre prejudices regarding it. For some hobbies it's worse but even for the mainstreamest of mainstream hobbies like going to the gym or bicycling, there are people who consider you a plague on Earth for being so invested in it.

Now, tabletop RPGs, being a really niche hobby, has perhaps weirdest rumours surrounding it, much thanks to various ideological nutjobs throwing a fit because game content offends them. Thankfully, unlike the Heavy Metal scene which also had its own Satanic panic, tabletop games don't have an actual wing of ideological Satanists and Neo-Pagans who go around burning churches, at least in my knowledge. (Thank you, Black Metal, for making it that much harder to explain how Heavy Metal is totally not work of the Devil. Thumbs up!)

I think the most annoying prejudices I've encountered have not been about RPGs, they've been about more common hobbies which are completely wholesome like Scouts and Martial Arts, yet some people are just stupid about them. Like, some people seriously think Scouts are like Wolf Cubs from Donald Duck. It's made worse because a lot of these stupid people were actual Wolf Cubs as kids, but somehow can't imagine any continuity from that to adult Scouts.

As a teenager, when I began leading my own scout patrol, guys in the Vocational Institute made a running gag of me liking little kids in a wrong way. It pissed me off, but at least I knew they were just trying to piss me off and didn't honestly believe that. Then, as twenty-something, I revealed I was leading a patrol of Girl Scouts (we have mixed troops here in Finland) to a female acquitance, and she was just shocked. Because apparently a young man supervising little girls is a crime against humanity. (How do teachers manage these days?)

(Of course, because Girl Scouts are adorable little angels, they too made a running gag of me liking kids in the wrong way. Thankfully, at least other Scouts knew they were doing it just to piss me off.)

[BWR]

I'm sorry, I thought that they were actually going to try to get people to play, I messed up

Misunderstandings all around. Must be a day that ends in-y on the internet.

[Featherstone]

It took a while to explain my family RPGs didn't equate to satanism. True story o.o

[goto124]

Because apparently a young man supervising little girls is a crime against humanity. (How do teachers manage these days?)

(Of course, because Girl Scouts are adorable little angels, they too made a running gag of me liking kids in the wrong way.

Do I laugh, cry, or both?

[Seto]

Mentioning D&D sometimes gets me weird looks, but it turns out okay.

However, mentioning that I'm writing a master's thesis in philosophy on Buffy the Vampire Slayer systematically triggers one of two things :
- Man, that's awesome ! (there have been a lot more of those than I expected, for which I'm thankful)
- ...Huh ? But isn't that the show with the... you know, and the... In philosophy ??! So, this is for fun but next year you'll work on something serious, right ?

But one of the side effects of reading books and writing a thesis on the show is that I'm getting less embarrassed and better at explaining why it holds academic interest, so that's nice

[Frozen_Feet]

Do I laugh, cry, or both?

You do it like this.

[Durkoala]

Hey, guys. Is there room for one more?

I found a Wallace & Gromit DVD today and brought it home. My parents' reaction was 'Shouldn't you grow up?' Never mind that I have a job, bank account, credit card, etc and a love of animation and Aardman, it's time I stopped being a child and put away the things that are obviously not real.

[factotum]

My parents' reaction was 'Shouldn't you grow up?' Never mind that I have a job, bank account, credit card, etc and a love of animation and Aardman, it's time I stopped being a child and put away the things that are obviously not real.

C.S. Lewis said it best: "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up".

[Durkoala]

C.S. Lewis said it best: "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up".

I know that, I just wish somebody would tell them. Or to be more precise, that they'll understand the advice of a fantasy writer instead of dismissing it as 'Your weird stuff*'.

* A category that includes most classic fantasy, most science fiction, most mythology and anything with LGBT characters.

[T-Mick]

I know that, I just wish somebody would tell them. Or to be more precise, that they'll understand the advice of a fantasy writer instead of dismissing it as 'Your weird stuff*'.

* A category that includes most classic fantasy, most science fiction, most mythology and anything with LGBT characters.

In times like this, it becomes better to describe Lewis as an academic, literary critic, theologian, and Christian apologist. Take your pick. "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

On a side note, I hold the unpopular opinion that we should all be judged hard for our hobbies. You get thick skin, and a new perspective on your life. What's not to like?

[lenon3579]

I never had much trouble with that... I talk about it to anyone who bothers to listen and people in general are mostly curious.

But if someone would look bad at it I have ready answers to them.

"Is like watching television, or a movie... but instead of being passively brainwashed you are an active part of the creation of the piece"

"Is like playing football or any other sports... but instead of exercising the muscles we exercise the brains"

"Is like doing theater... but the plays are improvised, and with rules to improvisation"

Not great deal.

[BannedInSchool]

I found a Wallace & Gromit DVD today and brought it home. My parents' reaction was 'Shouldn't you grow up?'

Showing them some "Adult" SF/Animation probably wouldn't help, eh? Hey, it's at least for teenage boys.

[BWR]

On a side note, I hold the unpopular opinion that we should all be judged hard for our hobbies. You get thick skin, and a new perspective on your life. What's not to like?

The idea that people should have to be looked down on for harmless hobbies simply because they aren't familiar to other people?

[Red Fel]

The idea that people should have to be looked down on for harmless hobbies simply because they aren't familiar to other people?

To play my advocate for a moment, there's a difference between judging a person's hobbies from a place of understanding, and judging them because they're unfamiliar.

I agree that expressing distaste for something simply based on a lack of knowledge is, by definition, ignorant. But once I know what your hobbies are about? I will readily judge the crap out of them, thank you very much. Could be good, could be bad, but darn right I'll judge. After I know.

Have a fondness for Twilight? I will mock you openly. Enjoy opera? I dig it. Think that Andrew Lloyd Webber is the be-all and end-all of musical theater? Dishonor on you, dishonor on your cow. Take part in kundalini meditation? I have no idea how that works, let me use Google as a verb and get back to you. Enjoy an edition of D&D of which I disapprove? We shall have strong words.

That's all exaggeration, of course. Except for the Twilight bit. But the point is, I'm not opposed to judging hobbies. What I'm opposed to are (1) judging from a place of ignorance, as opposed to a place of being informed, and (2) judging people based on their hobbies. I will come down on my friends who read Twilight for appreciating sub-literate garbage, but they are still my friends.

There is nothing wrong with introspection. Nothing wrong with looking at what you like and wondering why you like it, appreciating it warts and all. There is nothing wrong with pointing out those warts to your friends, as long as it comes from a place of love and understanding.

And there is nothing wrong with mocking Twilight. Except that it's so easy.

[BBDuc 2E]

There's a big difference between mocking people's hobbies and mocking the people, though. In OPs case for example, it seems like the boss is presuming that OP is a wierd guy because he plays roleplaying games.

"You love twilight? Dude, it's so extremely ridiculous!" Is a lot different from actively running away from someone liking twilight.

[Winter_Wolf]

I'm the kind of guy that takes a bad situation and makes it worse, usually by choice. People think I'm the devil, I constantly have to fight the urge to throw out the horns and stick out my tongue while grinning maniacally.

Because I'm a terrible person and I'll absolutely mock people who try to look down on me from their high horse. Rarely an issue these days, since I'm older and "wiser" and possibly a sociopath in the clinical sense. :D

[Wilko]

C.S. Lewis said it best: "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up".

Love the quote I think XKCD said it clearer

"We're Grown-ups now and it's our turn to decide what that means..."

Personally i've never gone out of my way to mention geeky hobbies to anyone but i've also never hidden them, I can't say i've ever run into anything as extreme as the OP on here but i've definitely had the mick taken. I find you just have to be prepared to give as good as you get, point out how their hobbies could be considered weird from an outside perspective, just try to avoid it turning into an argument

[Frontier]

I just say everyone's different. Nobody likes the same things and that's OK. Some people may like backgammon. i don't. I like chess. But I know that they like backgammon the way I like chess. People just need to be more mature.

[Evandar]

I don't mention D&D and having tried MUDs to people that aren't 'friends'. If someone is just a casual acquaintance, it's not worth having to convince them I'm not a total weirdo. I've never had a friend that found those two things particularly off-putting.

[goto124]

I find that MUDs come off as intimidating because they're all text, with no visuals or images that many people are so used to seeing.

[Evandar]

I find that MUDs come off as intimidating because they're all text, with no visuals or images that many people are so used to seeing.

I don't even bother inviting people to play MUDs. I was really into some for a while, but I found the playerbase was disproportionately attracting people who were using it as an escape for horrendous problems in real life. It seemed very unhealthy to me sometimes, and messed with my head at some points.

[goto124]

I find that Aardwolf is a newbie-friendly MUD that doesn't have such toxic problems. Even if it does, much of the toxicity happens only in closed circles and is easy to avoid. It also have a lot of players (200 online players at a time) for a MUD.

Which means I can find and build friendships with non-toxic players I meet on global channels.

[FinnLassie]

I'm actually glad that I get to use RPGs and LARP as a method in my field of work.

[Bulldog Psion]

On a side note, I hold the unpopular opinion that we should all be judged hard for our hobbies. You get thick skin, and a new perspective on your life. What's not to like?

Yes, because being berated and sneered at is a great way to relax with people. I don't know why I haven't thought of this before -- after a day of struggling with clients, worrying horribly about bills, stressing out over my wife's and my medical problems, trying to keep my old vehicle running, the absolute best thing to do to unwind is to go hang out with some people who will call me a loser, a fool, and an imbecile on the basis of my hobbies. How could I ever build character without it, since the rest of my life is so frickin' comfortable and easy and lazy?

And by the same token, why don't I do that at work in particular? Why don't I invite the people who are paying me, which is allowing me to survive -- literally -- to think of me as a weirdo, a devil-worshiper, or a manchild? Absolutely nothing bad could come from losing the good opinion of people on whose cash I depend to eat, pay the rent, and stay afloat, I'm sure.

You're perfectly right -- considering all the problems I have to deal with all the time involuntarily, the best thing for me to do is to voluntarily choose more problems!

And by the same token, those people are just lovely for being willing to harass and/or look down on someone else for daring to have a hobby different from themselves.

I could play that game, too. I could come up with some pretty nasty comments on people who participate in the hobbies I don't like, which are numerous -- watching soaps, baseball, racing, dirt bike driving, lying on a beach and baking their skin into a cancerous mass, whatever.

But I don't take jabs at them or judge them for their hobbies, because I extend the courtesy of assuming that they are fairly decent, average people to them and that it's none of my frickin' business what they do for relaxation/enjoyment, assuming that it isn't some form of cruelty to some other person or entity, even if it's something that you couldn't pay me to be interested in.

Honestly, is it so much to ask that other people extend courtesy and basic respect to me, and assume that I'm a fairly decent, average person despite them not liking my particular hobbies? Is that really a burdensome thing to ask? Or is there something particularly detestable about people who enjoy RPGs or other geeky stuff that means we are fair game for uncivilized treatment, while we need to treat the baseball fans and bungee jumpers of the world with kid gloves?

Personally, I think we should all treat each other with basic respect and courtesy, and not rag on one another about various harmless hobbies. And "gosh, I'm really just helping you get a thicker skin by sneering at you boorishly" is a really lousy excuse for a lack of basic courtesy and respect for other people.

[Jay R]

Honestly, is it so much to ask that other people extend courtesy and basic respect to me, and assume that I'm a fairly decent, average person despite them not liking my particular hobbies? Is that really a burdensome thing to ask? Or is there something particularly detestable about people who enjoy RPGs or other geeky stuff that means we are fair game for uncivilized treatment, while we need to treat the baseball fans and bungee jumpers of the world with kid gloves?

People have been asking some version of these questions for thousands of years.

The simple answer is that it's too much to expect. The world is not what we wish it to be. It is what it is.

So react to the actual world, as it really is. I do not discuss RPGs, SCA fencing, or comic books with co-workers until I know them well enough to expect them to be interested. I don't discuss them with strangers at all, except in a venue (like this one, or a convention, or a comic book store) where I can expect people to be interested.

But that's just treating my hobbies like I treat every other aspect of my life. I don't discuss statistics with people with no interest in statistics. I don't discuss online scheduling algorithms with non-mathematicians. I don't discuss the content of my telecom patents with non-engineers. I don't discuss the Dallas Cowboys with non-football-fans. I don't discuss my wife with people who don't know her.

Discussing anything with people not interested in the topic will get the kind of comments that you normally get from people not interested in the topic. If you don't want that kind of comments, don't invite them.

The best advice my mother ever gave me was this. "Always tell the truth. But don't always be tellin' it."

[ChristianSt]

Honestly, is it so much to ask that other people extend courtesy and basic respect to me, and assume that I'm a fairly decent, average person despite them not liking my particular hobbies? Is that really a burdensome thing to ask? Or is there something particularly detestable about people who enjoy RPGs or other geeky stuff that means we are fair game for uncivilized treatment, while we need to treat the baseball fans and bungee jumpers of the world with kid gloves?

Discussing anything with people not interested in the topic will get the kind of comments that you normally get from people not interested in the topic. If you don't want that kind of comments, don't invite them.

The best advice my mother ever gave me was this. "Always tell the truth. But don't always be tellin' it."

I don't really think this is really an answer to Bulldog's point (or even really to the topic of the thread itself). Yes, you should be only talk about topic the intend group wants to talk about.

But the underlying problem that is talked about (and what Bulldog rightfully complains about) is that seemingly enough people get problems if they say they play RPG. (Guess I'm lucky I don't have to deal with it myself: I know my department head for several years playing Magic The Gathering before starting work )

I guess you could stretch your advice to "Even if asked about what hobbies you have, do not tell them that it is RPG", but if that really is your advice then there is imo certainly something wrong with people treat other people's hobbies. (Or unless you want to go as far "Do not talk about hobbies at all", which doesn't sounds great either - because what is wrong about showing basic interested with what co-workers or other peoples do? Especially since you never know which person might share hobbies with yourself.)

[Red Fel]

But the underlying problem that is talked about (and what Bulldog rightfully complains about) is that seemingly enough people get problems if they say they play RPG. (Guess I'm lucky I don't have to deal with it myself: I know my department head for several years playing Magic The Gathering before starting work )

I guess you could stretch your advice to "Even if asked about what hobbies you have, do not tell them that it is RPG", but if that really is your advice then there is imo certainly something wrong with people treat other people's hobbies. (Or unless you want to go as far "Do not talk about hobbies at all", which doesn't sounds great either - because what is wrong about showing basic interested with what co-workers or other peoples do? Especially since you never know which person might share hobbies with yourself.)

I think Jay R's point wasn't to avoid mentioning that you play RPGs, but more that you should be aware of your audience.

Look, I love meat. I'm an obligate carnivore. If it bleeds, I can cook it, and I will only eat it if it had a face and a mother. And if I make those remarks around my friends, I'll get a laugh. And if I make those remarks at a vegetarian event, I'll get shouted out of the room. What is appropriate and humorous in one context is tasteless or offensive in another.

And that's the point. Read the audience. If you expect that you should be able to walk up to any given person and tell them that you play RPGs and not receive any negative judgment from anyone, your expectations are unrealistic. That's not to say that you should never tell anybody, or that you should assume everyone hates you and finds your hobbies revolting. Rather, it's to say that there are people out there who will judge you unreasonably for your hobbies. There are also people who will judge you reasonably. There are also people who won't judge you. There are also people who don't care, who don't know, who want to know, or who don't want to know.

"[I]s it so much to ask that other people extend courtesy and basic respect to me, and assume that I'm a fairly decent, average person despite them not liking my particular hobbies? Is that really a burdensome thing to ask?" Yes. The world owes us nothing. Now, in a fair society, the respect and civility you extend to others is returned to you. But that's not always the case. So, like any subject, be it RPGs or delicious murder, you have to decide whether your audience is interested and receptive. Otherwise, you have no right to tell a judgmental person something for which they would otherwise judge you and expect that they won't because you're a nice guy after all.

World doesn't work like that.

[Winter_Wolf]

So there's apparently a few ways to read "delicious murder" and I didn't immediately recall the stuff immediately preceding that in the same post.

And I wasn't horrified by where my mind went. Then again I've read enough Red Fel posts on alignment and whatnot that it seemed like the natural thing. Then also again, if revenge can be sweet, defeat can be bitter, why can't murder be delicious?