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Thread: Malack, undeath and Nergal
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2013-02-20, 08:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Malack, undeath and Nergal
Anyways, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Nergal disapprove of the undead? IIRC Malack said that when they found the mummies. So how come Malack is an undead priest of Nergal?
Thanks for the answers and sorry for my bad english :)Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2013-02-24 at 02:08 AM.
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2013-02-20, 08:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
No. Absolutely not.
If Nergal disapproved of undead, he wouldn't grant domain spells that allow the creation of undead. Malack disapproves of undead.Official Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!
English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2013-02-20, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
More specifically, Malack appears to be against the enslavement of undead, not necessarily the creation of undead in general.
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2013-02-20, 09:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
Ahh, I see. Thanks. I guess I just remembered it wrong.
Last edited by kabraxis; 2013-02-20 at 09:38 PM.
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2013-02-20, 09:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
Malack used a magic item to create the mummies, so it's possible that a homebrew Nergal forbids that spell from his list, but... meh, seems unlikely
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0858.html
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2013-02-20, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
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2013-02-20, 11:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-21, 12:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
It is my strongly held personal belief that clerics of a Death god "should" abhor undeath as a perversion of the natural cycle of Life & Death.
The opposite opinion seems to be more common among D&D writers/designers, where indulging in the Goth Romanticism of death/undeath appears to be somewhat in vogue.
It is hard to say what the Giant thinks, but it would be logical that the OotSverse, emulating the feel of a "typical" D&D campaign would choose the more common belief, even if the Giant himself might have a different opinion.
Opinions are just opinions, whether mine or the designers/writers.I owe Peelee 5 Quatloos. But I am going double or nothing that Durkon will be casting 8th level spells at the big finale.
I bet Goblin_Priest 5 quatloos that Xykon does not know RC has the phylactery at this point in the tale (#1139).
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of Belkar...so close!
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of goblinkind!
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2013-02-21, 01:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
Last edited by FujinAkari; 2013-02-21 at 01:08 AM.
Official Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!
English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2013-02-21, 06:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-21, 08:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
I don't understand what people get so confused about.
Nergal is the god of Death and Destruction, it's only natural that he'd be against any form of resurrection (even if only in the form of mindless zombies), while turning a perfectly alive and kicking Belkar into undeath would be perfectly ok with his policy.
As for the rest, I assume that by Nergal he meant Death, meaning that it'd been a waste not to use a rare form of undeads such as the mummies.
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2013-02-21, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
Official Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!
English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2013-02-21, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
The way I read the rules on activating magic items, UMD is only required for "spell completion" items (like scrolls) of spells that the user doesn't have access to, and "spell trigger" items (like wands) with spells that the user's class doesn't have access to. So a scroll of holy smite (available only through the good domain) would be usable without UMD only by a 9th level cleric with the good domain (unless I'm mistaken or the DM decides otherwise), while a wand of the same spell would be usable by any cleric of any level. A staff could presumably have either "spell trigger" or "command word" activation types, either of which would make the "animate existing mummy" effect depicted here (which is presumably available to clerics somehow) usable regardless of Nergal's domains or opinions regarding mummies.
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2013-02-21, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-21, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
Well, a free-willed vampire Belkar would be a possibility given Malack considers himself a father making childs. I guess we'll have answers soon enough regarding that.
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2013-02-21, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
Nergal is the god of war and pestilence as well as being a Solar deity (pestilence and the sun were also tied together by the Greeks in the form of Apollo, though Nergal was associated with the Planet Mars and the Greeks interpreted him as a foreign Ares or Hercules). His marriage to the Goddess of death Ereshkigal has parallels with the Greek myth of Hades and Persephone, in which a resurrection is used to symbolise the calender cycle. Nergal's ties to a specific 'phase' of the sun rather than the sun is another strong calender based theme.
Since calender cycles and resurrection are so linked in mythology I don't think you can say that Nergal would be anti-resurrection."that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft
When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.
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2013-02-21, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
Official Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!
English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2013-02-21, 04:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-21, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-21, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-21, 05:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
Please realize that the post I was responding to was positing that Malack used the staff because Nergal did not grant him the spell to animate the mummies himself. If that were the case, and animate dead and similar spells were effectively removed from Malack's spell list, then he would not be able to activate them from a staff because he lacks the knowledge of the spell needed. Lacking that knowledge, he could still activate the staff using the Use Magic Device skill (a skill he is unlikely to have any ranks in).
Also, note that staffs are always spell trigger items, never command word activated items.
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2013-02-21, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
{Scrubbed}
As for the rest, I assume that by Nergal he meant Death
Any rule has exceptions, without said rule becoming void because of that.Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2013-02-21 at 09:07 PM.
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2013-02-21, 07:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
Nergal is not against undeath. Malack is against casual creation of undead to use as cannon fodder specifically because he IS undead; that is what he is referring to as "being against" in that panel.
Yes, it was intentionally vague at the time so as not to give away the twist.Rich Burlew
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2013-02-21, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-21, 08:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
{{scrubbed}}
Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2013-02-24 at 02:54 AM.
Official Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!
English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2013-02-21, 10:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
If Nergal expects his follower to kill the target himself instead of allowing someone else to kill the target, then, that is consistent with disapproval of creation of an undead phalanx you walk behind.
It is also consistent with the idea that Making Children is a personal perogative of Malack, instead of any kind of duty.
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2013-02-21, 10:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
I don't know, I see Malack as an old-fashioned kinda guy and children should obey their parents. Especially Belkar - he's only just been turned. It's for his own good, really. Besides, free-willed Belkar is far too likely to try to kill him and harvest his vampiric organs for later sale as some sort of super-rare spell component.
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2013-02-22, 03:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal
Yeah, but parents don't enslave their children.
Also, Malack didn't interact much with Belkar, so I don't think he knows he's such a psychotic halfling that would attack him just for fun and possible profit. And we still don't really know how being a vampire will affect Belkar's mind, if at all. It might just create that "special bond" Malack is craving, making Belkar seeing him as his "father" even if not enslaved.
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2013-02-22, 03:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-22, 04:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Malack, undeath and Nergal