SW Saga Edition discussion I: Insert witty description here!

[Hyena]

I've noticed there is no SWSE discussion thread on this forum, yet SWSE seems to be rather popular. I felt oblieged to correct this outrageous mistake.

List of links you might find useful:
List of every single feat provided with the number of the page.
Same for talents
Bonus feats for every class

[Matticussama]

I'm going to be starting a Saga Edition game soon, so having those links will help me out a lot. Thanks! =D

[Alejandro]

I totally misread this as a discussion about the movie, Episode I, and I was going to burst in here with a shotgun looking for Jar Jar.

[IdleMuse]

This is a great thread for me to bring up something I've been thinking about for the last couple of weeks. As Hyena said, there are a fair number of people here who love Saga edition Star Wars, and making fun, cool, innovative characters, and this got me thinking. Who would be up for a character creation contest, here in the forum, similar to the Iron Chef contest in the D&D3.5 forum?

Basically, the way it would work would be, the chairman (I'd be happy to do this initially, although it might be fun if it rotated if other chairmen are willing), would pick one of the following...

• A character 'concept', like 'smuggler' or 'imperial agent'
• A canon character (probably more obscure than not)
• A prestige class
• Something else?

And people who wished to participate would have a month or so to PM a full build, including background, to the chairman.

The chairman would then anonymously post the builds, and anyone who had signed up to judge (I'm sure, if it becomes a problem, we can find a nonbiased way of allowing people who submitted to also judge) would post analyses of the builds, perhaps according to some criteria (Iron Chef uses Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient, and.. erm. Originality!).

After the period of time for judging is over, the scores are collated and the winner announced! And then the next one begins, with a different 'challenge'.

How many people would be interested in this, from either a competing or judging viewpoint? I'd be happy to run it!

[Alejandro]

I am interested, but you knew that. Stuffy Brit.

:D

[Thrysierius]

I am interested, but you knew that. Stuffy Brit.

:D

Do I have to drive back and smack you?

I'm in.

[Alejandro]

Do I have to drive back and smack you?

I'm in.

I'll be waiting with Tomoyasu Hotei on a boom box. Swords.

[Friv]

I do like SAGA edition, although the longer I play it the more bizarre things I run into.

But I'm totally up for competing in this creation challenge. Don't know if I'll be available every round, but I should be. :)

[Hyena]

I am playing an imperial agent in the current campaign. And while she does not have especially powerful build, it was decent enough to provide firepower during the sessions. Of course, my real pride was a honor of deceiving and manipulating an entire party, but I still can show off the build.

By the way. Is there anyway to make non-autofire weapon gain autofire?

[Alejandro]

I am playing an imperial agent in the current campaign. And while she does not have especially powerful build, it was decent enough to provide firepower during the sessions. Of course, my real pride was a honor of deceiving and manipulating an entire party, but I still can show off the build.

By the way. Is there anyway to make non-autofire weapon gain autofire?

In Scum and Villainy, there is the Rapid Recycler weapon attachment. It gives a weapon an autofire mode. It does not work with burst or splash weapons or any other weapon that prohibits it.

[Hyena]

Autofiring concussion rifle. The mere name of this weapon of doom causes pain.

[Alejandro]

Autofiring concussion rifle. The mere name of this weapon of doom causes pain.

Ha. That will be fun, but remember you only have two shots before you have to reload. Each autofire attack will consume 10 shots and the weapon holds 25.

[RandomLunatic]

I am playing an imperial agent in the current campaign. And while she does not have especially powerful build, it was decent enough to provide firepower during the sessions. Of course, my real pride was a honor of deceiving and manipulating an entire party, but I still can show off the build.

By the way. Is there anyway to make non-autofire weapon gain autofire?

In addition, there is the Tech Specialist feat, which lets you add an autofire mode to a weapon.

Scum and Villainy also features the Hailfire Gunslinger talent which, if you dual-wield pistols, lets you make an autofire attack with one of them as a standard action.

[Hyena]

Ha. That will be fun, but remember you only have two shots before you have to reload. Each autofire attack will consume 10 shots and the weapon holds 25.

1) Strip of the stun setting (who needs it, anyway?)
2) Add extra power source.
3) You won't need more then five shots.

[Alejandro]

1) Strip of the stun setting (who needs it, anyway?)
2) Add extra power source.
3) You won't need more then five shots.

That weapon has no stun setting, unfortunately.

[IdleMuse]

Stripping it to Exotic is sometimes worthwhile.

[Matticussama]

Since this is a general discussion, I have a general question. =D

I'm planning on running a Saga game soon. I've never run or played the system before, but I have lots of gaming experience and a broad knowledge of the Star Wars Expanded Universe.

What are some of the most odd or unusual things that I should be on the look for when first running a Saga game? Those little things that tend to be the most weird or confusing when transitioning from one system to another? Basically, I'm hoping to avoid any obvious beginner's blunders for running a Saga game by getting this feedback.

Since it will influence what would be considered odd or unusual for me, and what mechanical things I might confuse the most, I've played d20 SW, D&D 3.5, PF, M&M 3rd ed, Shadowrun 4th ed and nWoD. I've played 2 or 3 sessions of 4th ed D&D, but not enough to really make any major comparisons (other than the very basics like Fort, Ref, and Will Defenses rather than saves).

[Alejandro]

Since this is a general discussion, I have a general question. =D

I'm planning on running a Saga game soon. I've never run or played the system before, but I have lots of gaming experience and a broad knowledge of the Star Wars Expanded Universe.

What are some of the most odd or unusual things that I should be on the look for when first running a Saga game? Those little things that tend to be the most weird or confusing when transitioning from one system to another? Basically, I'm hoping to avoid any obvious beginner's blunders for running a Saga game by getting this feedback.

Since it will influence what would be considered odd or unusual for me, and what mechanical things I might confuse the most, I've played d20 SW, D&D 3.5, PF, M&M 3rd ed, Shadowrun 4th ed and nWoD. I've played 2 or 3 sessions of 4th ed D&D, but not enough to really make any major comparisons (other than the very basics like Fort, Ref, and Will Defenses rather than saves).

Tell us what books you have and what kind of PCs your players are going to play.

And the MOST IMPORTANT houserule: Do NOT let anyone take Skill Focus: Use the Force until a point you decide on (in my game, it's either when you make Jedi Knight or equivalent 8th level.) This is the most easily exploited hole in the game.

[IdleMuse]

In terms of the crunchy side of GMing, I'd be most wary of crossing-over rules from D&D. It's better if you can forget all the rules from D&D3.5, because some important things do work differently in Saga. Combat, particularly, the way the Withdraw action changes things, the way AoOs work, how important Autofire is... I'd recommend you read the Combat Rules section of the core book back to front twice before running a game, and ask any questions that brings up, here.

As Alejandro pointed out, one of the most commonly house-ruled-rules is too take account of the fact that early SKill Focus can be very good, particularly SF:Use the Force. His solution is simple, easy, and effective. I instead go for a broader fix, where ylu can take it at any level, but the bonus from Skill Focus (any skill) is only equal to half your level, to a cap of +5, so it slowly gets better until you hit lvl10.

For additional smoothness, I could make it half your level rounded UP, instead of the usual down, as that means your skill bonus doesn't jump by two every two levels.

Erm, beyond that, simple stuff, like, encourage people to multiclass, and usually to aim for a PrC, instead of the simple straight Scout 20 build. Saga Ed is designed for multiclassing, so characters should take advantage of that. Many Jedi, for instance, benefit from levels spent in Soldier or Noble, a combat Scoundrel will want Scout or Soldier levels, heck, there's nothing wrong with a Jedi 1/Scout 1/Soldier 3/Noble 1/Scoundrel 1 aside from the fact you won't qualify for Jedi Knight any time soon.

[Hyena]

heck, there's nothing wrong with a Jedi 1/Scout 1/Soldier 3/Noble 1/Scoundrel 1

Actually, there is. The only worthy talents noble has is Wealth, and there is no point in dipping so late - it would be wiser to place noble dip right after Jedi.

[Alejandro]

Actually, there is. The only worthy talents noble has is Wealth, and there is no point in dipping so late - it would be wiser to place noble dip right after Jedi.

Au contraire. :) You can make a merciless Jedi saber-master with nothing but Noble levels, and the Noble Fencing Style talents.

[IdleMuse]

Actually, there is. The only worthy talents noble has is Wealth, and there is no point in dipping so late - it would be wiser to place noble dip right after Jedi.

The order there was more or less random Exceptional Skill is also a great noble dip talent.

[Alejandro]

And don't forget being able to grant your allies free standard actions. You can do terrible, terrible things to the enemy if such a Noble is helping your Gunslinger or Jedi Knight.

[Matticussama]

Thank you for all of the feedback thus far!

@Alejandro: The books that I currently have available are the Saga core book, Starships of the Galaxy, Threats of the Galaxy, and the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide. Since I want to play a Rebellion-era game, I am looking into getting the Rebellion Era Campaign Guide. As time goes on I will acquire more as needed; advice from the Playground on book selection is of course always welcomed.

Regarding classes, thus far my group members have expressed general interests but haven't started mechanical builds yet (we're finishing up a 3.5 campaign before starting the Saga game). Of the concepts I know certain people want to be: a Mandalorian Bounty Hunter, a Togruta Smuggler/Rebel Blockade Runner, a Togruta Jedi (brother of the smuggler), a Bothan Heavy Weapons Specialist/Rebel Commando, and a Kel Dor medic/scientist. We have one other player who may or may not join, so no info about her character yet.

Regarding Skill Focus: Use the Force, I saw that common fix on various threads. I was planning on using the idea that IdleMuse mentioned, scaling the skill bonus at 1/2 character level maxing out at +5 at level 10.


@IdleMuse: Indeed, I am definitely trying to break myself out of D&D mentality when it comes to various combat rules. I've played plenty of non-d20 games so it isn't quite as hard, although I will admit I find myself reflexively thinking back to old SW d20 rules occasionally as I read through the material. I think the hardest thing for the first few sessions will be breaking my group out of d20/3.5 combat habits; I'll definitely need to nudge them gently into it so as not to overwhelm them with new rules.

Regarding multiclassing, I don't think that will be a problem. I currently run a mid-optimized 3.5 group so multiclassing has always been a fairly common occurrence.

Again, thanks for the feedback so far guys! =D

[LibraryOgre]

So, I'm an admitted skill whore, and we're looking at playing SWSE. The only resource is the core book.

I initially thought a Scout, but how bad is it to switch that to a Noble? I was thinking of specifically going for the Lineage tree... Wealth, Educated, and the one that lets you pretend to be trained in skills.

Bad plan? We will likely have at least 1 Jedi, but unlikely to have a party full of them.

[NEO|Phyte]

So, I'm an admitted skill whore, and we're looking at playing SWSE. The only resource is the core book.

I initially thought a Scout, but how bad is it to switch that to a Noble? I was thinking of specifically going for the Lineage tree... Wealth, Educated, and the one that lets you pretend to be trained in skills.

Bad plan? We will likely have at least 1 Jedi, but unlikely to have a party full of them.

It's a bit unconventional, but I have an interesting skillwhore setup. It consists of taking as many "use UtF in place of x skill" talents as possible, and picking up what you can with your remaining skills.

Spoiler

Show

Core Book
Force Persuasion - Persuasion - Jedi talent
Force Intuition - Initiative - Jedi talent
Force Perception - Perception - Force talent (avoid surprise, notice enemies, sense deception, sense influence)
Force Pilot - Pilot - Force talent
Force Treatment - Treat Injury - Force Adept talent
Force Deception - Deception - Sith Apprentice talent

Jedi Academy
Instinctive Navigation - Use Computer - Force talent (astrogation, sensor operation)
White Current Adept - Stealth - White Current Adept talent
Fluidity - Acrobatics - Shapers of Kro Var talent

Clone Wars
Insight of the Force - Knowledge - Jedi Knight talent (untrained knowledges only)


Jedi 7/Jedi Knight 1/Sith Apprentice 5/Force Adept 1/Sith Lord 3

This setup assumes your GM is sticking to the very dumb "you must stay full DS otherwise all your stuff from sith apprentice turns off" rule, if that rule is waived, you can replace Sith Lord with either of the other two second-tier forceuser classes from the core book.

:edit: hmm, core-only. In that case, you don't need Sith Lord, as it's there for the alternate force tradition talents.

[Friv]

So, I'm an admitted skill whore, and we're looking at playing SWSE. The only resource is the core book.

I initially thought a Scout, but how bad is it to switch that to a Noble? I was thinking of specifically going for the Lineage tree... Wealth, Educated, and the one that lets you pretend to be trained in skills.

Bad plan? We will likely have at least 1 Jedi, but unlikely to have a party full of them.

It's likely to depend on your game.

Scout's advantage over noble is having more hit points and combat options, and the fact that the bonus feat is more generically useful - Linguist is not great in Star Wars due to how easy getting translator droids is and the sheer number of languages that exist. Noble has an extra skill, and several useful non-combat Talents. So depending on what your group is likely to build for... Saga is moderately combat-heavy, but you can get a lot of mileage out of good skill useage.

[Dienekes]

So, I'm an admitted skill whore, and we're looking at playing SWSE. The only resource is the core book.

I initially thought a Scout, but how bad is it to switch that to a Noble? I was thinking of specifically going for the Lineage tree... Wealth, Educated, and the one that lets you pretend to be trained in skills.

Bad plan? We will likely have at least 1 Jedi, but unlikely to have a party full of them.

Outside Skill whore what do you want your character to do?

Scoundrels have arguably the best Skill List, and even if you don't start with them a 1 level dip for Fool's Luck is probably better than the Noble's Spontaneous Skill talent overall.

Noble has the most skills from a good list, but really their best at buffing until you add some more books.

Scouts are a good mix of skills and combat options, but their lack of npc manipulation skills hurts.

If you want you can ask your GM to implement a rather common houserule. When you multiclass instead of picking up a bonus feat you can pick up a skill. Since skills basically are feats in this system it's not unbalancing, and it makes multiclassing out of Soldier less painful.

[Alejandro]

So, I'm an admitted skill whore, and we're looking at playing SWSE. The only resource is the core book.

I initially thought a Scout, but how bad is it to switch that to a Noble? I was thinking of specifically going for the Lineage tree... Wealth, Educated, and the one that lets you pretend to be trained in skills.

Bad plan? We will likely have at least 1 Jedi, but unlikely to have a party full of them.

Do both, Saga is great for multiclassing. A few levels of Scout gets you Evasion (very valuable) and some combat prowess, with a few levels of Noble for the Lineage talents.

[Beleriphon]

The only thing I'll mention is that blaster carbines are exactly the same as blaster rifles, except for the fact the core book's editing misses that carbines cannot fire at long range. They go out to medium and that's it.

The books are full of things like this, the Scum and Villainy book as a thing about using your organization prestige for gaining equipment, it even references a table, but the entire section explaining this new mechanic doesn't exist anywhere in the book.