123, The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 111

[Richbin]

Back to the choke-point...

who's gonna win: a leather-clad barbershopchoir doing some doowop or a hardrockin' quartet playing Thunderdragondeathmetal?

Even though I prefer doowop over metal mostly, I'd go with the latter rather than the former... Yeah, both use falsetto, but the backing of metal is way more powerfull than the voice-imitates-an-instrument of doowop... ;)

Overall devastation. I would tend to agree.
However, on the precision side, Transylvito has it all over Plaid, and they only want one unit - Stanley.
(Funny juxtaposition - Plaid Pikeman into Heavy Metal Rock Overlord)

My personal preferences? I have none in this case - I am eclectic, although I lean a little more towards the doo-wop, but in this case, its more like well-coordinated angry gang rock than doo-wop shaboop.

This is going to be one heck of a rrrrrrrumble....

[Richbin]

Barbershop?? doo-wop??

West Side Story is far from either. It has the full force of Broadway behind it. Besides, what backing does Stanley have? I see no guitars (just some axes ), no bass, no drums.

Personally, I see choreography vs. karaoke.

No DRUMS?
The man has a HAMMER of the ELVI!
Thunderbolts galore - can you say Pyrotechnics show? When used in combination with the dwagons AoE Breaths, the show will be spectacular.
Well worth the admission price.
If the Foolamancer were on-line (and more importantly on-board), this would be a short rumble - the lightshow would be blinding and downright psychedelic.

My only concern is going to be another 'Death from Above' maneuver from Jillian,. or a 'Gutting from Below' move to slive through a Dwagon Wing (Never saw it coming) type of move... although Stanley can Fly... maybe she does not know that.
There will be a lsot of death on transylvito's side, only to set up Juiklllian

[teratorn]

And as far as Wanda attacking Jillian, we're probably in a bit of a semantic tangle. I would define 'initiating combat' as moving into a hex with enemy troops, whether or not you choose to shoot.

I'm still lost, how does this preclude GK from attacking the archons during the night?. According to you the archons and GK have initiated combat. The archons are enemy troops inside the same hex.

[ShinyBrowncoat]

I'm still lost, how does this preclude GK from attacking the archons during the night?. According to you the archons and GK have initiated combat. The archons are enemy troops inside the same hex.

Well, they're currently neutral troops inside the same hex. It's not clear what would happen if Parson 'declared war' on them, and if we stick to turn-based wargame conventions, it's probably not even possible to 'declare war' after you end your turn ('during the night').

[Partywhipple]

YES! I am glad they are going to show Stanley as a Bad Mother -SHUT YO' MOUTH! Hey, I'm just talkin' about Stanley!

Seriously, he couldn't have gotten as far as he did if he wasn't dangerous. Up to this point it's just shown him as an idiot and it was laaaame. Now let's see him do some serious damage.

[fendrin]

No DRUMS?
The man has a HAMMER of the ELVI!

A hammer? for what, a dulcimer?

Thunderbolts galore - can you say Pyrotechnics show? When used in combination with the dwagons AoE Breaths, the show will be spectacular.
Well worth the admission price.
If the Foolamancer were on-line (and more importantly on-board), this would be a short rumble - the lightshow would be blinding and downright psychedelic.

Oh yes, it will be impressive, but will it be effective? Shock value, like shock troops, tend to have little lasting impact.

As a side note, I listen to much more rock than Broadway... and I don't think that any of this has anything to do with what will transpire in the comics. I just love the concept of dance fighting, and the conversation is fun.

[CaptC]

I'm still lost, how does this preclude GK from attacking the archons during the night?. According to you the archons and GK have initiated combat. The archons are enemy troops inside the same hex.

We're tangling a couple of different issues. (The punishment for nitpicking: exhaustive explanation... )

1) Can Parson attack the Archons at night?

I don't believe the whole "Parson can do stuff at night" theory. The canon only explicitly says you can't move when it's not your turn, but I believe it goes farther than that.

If it's a Turn Based System, that's what Turn means. You can talk to other players, plan and plot and make deals while it's not your turn, but you can't actually implement your plans until your Turn.

2) "Parson is a person, not just a unit, he can do stuff when he wants"

That breaks the conventions of a turn based system in a particularly unsatisfying way. Parson then has NO limits. It's not surprising that the guy who can do anything he wants is the ultimate warlord, but it's not very interesting either. Hence, I believe Parson will obey the conventions of a turnbased game, just as any other unit, with no cheating.

3) How did Wanda attack Jillian when it was Jillian's turn?

I believe you can react to enemy units in your hexes, during THEIR Turn.

But that rule doesn't help Parson attack the Archons, either. Night is nobody's turn. Parson can't act, because it's not Parson's turn. Parson can't react, because it's not the Archon's turn, either.

I hope that cleared things up. (I'll try not to nitpick in the future.)

[valce]

I agree that Parson's going to try to either rush for Ansom or draw him into the tunnels...

Seems more 'ultimate warlord'-y to taunt your opponent into rushing to his doom though, rather than going out to get him, assuming Ansom can plow into the tunnels on Parson's turn.

Parson's got to try one of those two... He did promise to get the Arkenpliers this turn :p

[Aquillion]

So who else here thinks that Stanley never built up the FAQ cities because its a 'capital site' and you can't own more then one at a time?

Considering how close Transilvito AND GK are.. FAQ looks less and less like the secret secluded hideout a abnd could stage a reunion tour from.

I can think of a better reason:

With his Foolamancer in the link-up, there's no way Stanley could have hidden FAQ. Rebuilding it would have been a waste, since Transilvito would have immediately captured it from him.

(Of course, it's still a bit of a crap shoot, but he doesn't have much choice now... And with him personally there, all his dwagons will be able to defend it.)

[Wadoka]

...The man has a HAMMER of the ELVI!...

Funny. I don't remember Elvis owning a hammer...

Thank you, thank you very much.

[Tarian]

I just had to register to mention how much I like Erfworld. Lurked for a while, finally got to posting. Looking forwards to the rest.

[Occasional Sage]

Huh? An enemy needs undisputed control of one of the outer defense zones (tunnels, walls, or airspace) to attack the garrison. That implies that the Coalition can't attack from airspace (if they even have any air units that didn't go after Stanley) as long as the Archons are sitting there, even if they don't actually intervene.

Huh. Wonder why I had "two" stuck in my head. Weird.

[teratorn]

I don't believe the whole "Parson can do stuff at night" theory. The canon only explicitly says you can't move when it's not your turn, but I believe it goes farther than that.

The discussion wasn't about Parson, just what happens when enemy units stay in contact during the night. This kind of situation, two enemy armies (and Charlie has declared his intention of capturing GK) sharing the night in contact inside the same hex is probably unusual.

We know they can't move between hexes, but Wanda was quite happy playing with her airforce during the night. They can "dance" inside the hex. And as we have seen, dancing is lethal in Erfworld, so she was training them to battle.

On the other hand battle stats could go to zero also during the night, so that you could hit your opponent but you would do no hit-point related damage. We have no info on this subject.

[CaptC]

The discussion wasn't about Parson, just what happens when enemy units stay in contact during the night. This kind of situation, two enemy armies (and Charlie has declared his intention of capturing GK) sharing the night in contact inside the same hex is probably unusual.

For game purposes, Charlie is neutral with GK. They are not enemy units adjacent at night.

Charlie has declared his intent of capturing Parson and/or his calculator. He apparently cares little about GK one way or the other.

If GK and Charlie do go to war with each other, then combat resolution will occur. Under those circumstances, I expect one side will be forced to exit the hex before night falls.

[Lamech]

For game purposes, Charlie is neutral with GK. They are not enemy units adjacent at night.

Charlie has declared his intent of capturing Parson and/or his calculator. He apparently cares little about GK one way or the other.

If GK and Charlie do go to war with each other, then combat resolution will occur. Under those circumstances, I expect one side will be forced to exit the hex before night falls.

Really, is being "neutral" even possible? In games like startcraft is sure isn't. In erfworld stacks from non-allied capitals auto-attack each other, so that would say neutrality isn't really possible. So I'm betting it the only to levels of alliance are non-allied, and allied. The only thing we have been is "move" drops to 0 at the end of the turn, and that casting veils is not possible of turn. Although things like uncroaking certainly are possible. I don't know where you are getting the idea that fighting at turn is impossible, we do not have the information to know.

[Richbin]

I beleive that being in the same hex, Charly would expose himself to attacks automatically if there were no warlors in GK's stack, as they would not be allied, however, I consider even that much to be speculation.

[SteveMB]

I beleive that being in the same hex, Charly would expose himself to attacks automatically if there were no warlors in GK's stack, as they would not be allied, however, I consider even that much to be speculation.

There's also another complication -- do separate zones of the city's defenses (airspace, tunnels, walls, garrison) count as "in contact"? Probably not; it seems unlikely that (for example) units in the tunnels would interact directly with units in the airspace.

For that matter, flying units may not count as "in contact" with non-archery ground units in the same hex (in general, not just in a city), since the latter simply have no way to engage the former.

[Richbin]

However, I suspect that GK still has archery units, and still has air defenses.
Wanda did not fire off all defenses, just most, IIRC.
In addition to which, there are now flying units present which therefore could engage the Archons.

[fendrin]

There's also another complication -- do separate zones of the city's defenses (airspace, tunnels, walls, garrison) count as "in contact"? Probably not; it seems unlikely that (for example) units in the tunnels would interact directly with units in the airspace.

For that matter, flying units may not count as "in contact" with non-archery ground units in the same hex (in general, not just in a city), since the latter simply have no way to engage the former.

I think you are probably right.The fact that only the Outer Walls zone has to breach the garrison walls implies that each zone has it's own method of entry into the garrison.

The tunnels open directly to the garrison, they may not connect to the outer walls.

On the other hand, they might... and it would make sense for the airspace to connect directly to the Outer Walls...

How about this... an unled stack would be forced to attack all enemy units in their current zone, then assuming they survive, perhaps they would be forced to enter one of the adjoining zones and attack whatever units are there. So if an unled stack of marbit scouts entered the tunnels, but there were no tunnel forces, the marbit stack would have to move on to either the garrison or the outer walls and attack anything there...

[headhoncho]

If you look at one of the earlier strips, it appears that the Archons are in four stacks of 8, 8, 8 and 7. It's possible that the airspace constitutes something similar to six mini-hexes surrounding the garrison, and four of those six are occupied by the Archon hexes (thus leaving an exit of two hexes if an air unit wants to leave GK).

Just a theory.

[Znek]

My prediction for the upcoming fights (based on pure speculation):

His Toolship will win against Super Draculario, while Sizemore will eventually lose against the Raddishes...

FAQ is faq-ed (booped), Parson, Wanda and the thinkamancer will escape by air and will join the tool in a newly veiled capital.

[CaptC]

Really, is being "neutral" even possible? In games like startcraft is sure isn't. In erfworld stacks from non-allied capitals auto-attack each other, so that would say neutrality isn't really possible. So I'm betting it the only to levels of alliance are non-allied, and allied. The only thing we have been is "move" drops to 0 at the end of the turn, and that casting veils is not possible of turn. Although things like uncroaking certainly are possible. I don't know where you are getting the idea that fighting at turn is impossible, we do not have the information to know.

It must be possible, pretty clearly the remaining GK air defenses and the Archons are in the same place, and they aren't fighting. QED.

Mechanically, it may be that they are neutral, and forbidden from fighting each other by the rules. Or it may be that there are warlord characters on both sides that are simply choosing not to shoot each other.

*shrug* A difference which makes no difference, as far as the story line is concerned.

[fendrin]

*shrug* A difference which makes no difference, as far as the story line is concerned.

And that makes this conversation different from all the others how?

[CaptC]

And that makes this conversation different from all the others how?

...Not very!

[teratorn]

For that matter, flying units may not count as "in contact" with non-archery ground units in the same hex (in general, not just in a city), since the latter simply have no way to engage the former.

But on the other hand we know since the donut of doom that flying units are in contact with ground units, for they have to attack unless lead by a warlord. This means that, if neutrality is not possible, then the archons must have a warlord with them (or that they are all warlord-like in nature).

Possible target for Parson?

[Laurentio II]

I don't know where you are getting the idea that fighting at turn is impossible, we do not have the information to know.

Au contraire, seems it's possible. Parson orders warlords not to attack during Coalition turn, when Jillian and escort enter their hex.
Now, either Parson was wrong about it (but at that point, we can expect him to have learned Erfworld mechanic), or it was theoretically possible for the warlords (and dwagon) to attack Jillian just because she was in the same hex.

[fendrin]

...(or that they are all warlord-like in nature).

I've felt that was the case for a while.
In fact, I'm wondering if they aren't simply specially trained 'mancers.

[fehler]

I'm surprised at Webinar's reaction to finding Sizemore. He didn't seem as surprised to see a caster leading a stack, considering how rare a move it is. As it is, he's jumping at it eagerly. Too eagerly. Like a foolish Queen Hunter about to go down.

[teratorn]

I'm surprised at Webinar's reaction to finding Sizemore. He didn't seem as surprised to see a caster leading a stack, considering how rare a move it is. As it is, he's jumping at it eagerly. Too eagerly. Like a foolish Queen Hunter about to go down.

Not eager, desperate. After the fire Webinar understood they were facing serious opposition, not the simple walk Ansom had antecipated. I think he knows that if they don't take the caster they are doomed.

But I'm more worried about Vinny than about Webinar. We haven't seen yet what the Arkenhammer is capable as a weapon. It could be devastating (maybe the shock of seeing Jillian down will bring Jack truly back, and he'll save her using illusion).

[Wort]

I'm surprised at Webinar's reaction to finding Sizemore. He didn't seem as surprised to see a caster leading a stack, considering how rare a move it is.

I see what you are saying. I imagine Sizemore's glowing shovel of power might be a dead giveaway that he's a caster.