Dominic Deegan, thread VI, Wyrd Snarksters

[Oracle_Hunter]

Tho if you plan to redo DD, how would the comic format go? Would it the 4 panel newspaper style that Mookie has going, or the usual printed comic style with dynamic panels?

Hrm. Panel layout isn't something I've thought a lot about. To be honest, I've really liked how Howard Tayler does it: 4 panels during the week, and big, freeform stuff on the weekends.

Now, I know that playing with panel design must be more work for artists, but since I'm not doing the art, I would probably leave it up to the artist. I certainly wouldn't go the Dresden Codak route; I think that going full "infinite canvas" on every panel can get in the way of storytelling.

[Humbug]

The newspaper style is most definitely easier to do, but having to do the comic daily does require alot of work.

[Oracle_Hunter]

The newspaper style is most definitely easier to do, but having to do the comic daily does require alot of work.

True. A daily is very nice, but not strictly necessary. I think 3 a week is probably the minimum to work up a nice fanbase unless you have really exceptional story or art... or both (see Breakfast of the Gods). Consistency is key, in any case.

So 3, moderately dynamic pages a week is probably reasonable for story and art purposes... though a five-a-week comic strip might work best to get started. That'll build up a nice buffer and allow the plot to advance at a sufficient pace to keep up readership.

Decisions, decisions, eh?

[Humbug]

Something I struggle with all the time, I know a weekly comic moves very slowly for the readers, I want to change my schedule to a 2x/3x a week updates, but considering the artwork and the little time I have, one page is all I can manage at the moment.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Something I struggle with all the time, I know a weekly comic moves very slowly for the readers, I want to change my schedule to a 2x/3x a week updates, but considering the artwork and the little time I have, one page is all I can manage at the moment.

It's a serious question that, I think, centers on what you want to showcase in the webcomic. For me, the story is what's important, so I'm happy to go with relatively simplistic art so long as the story moves on. For you, it seems, you'd like to showcase your art, so spending more time to have really good art is what's important.

Now, I've never tried to make a webcomic myself (I'm -5 on all Art checks) but I have had friends who tried it. One of them really got wrapped up on an "infinite canvas" page that took months to finish. Very pretty, but it was one of those "just a little more" situations.

That's one reason why I never actually "storyboarded" the Ultimate DD idea - I knew that I really couldn't keep the pace up, even if I had someone else do the art. The other is that Mookie would have all of my copyrights under Derivative Works

[Turcano]

Man... it doesn't seem like it would take all that much effort, actually, to make the series... good?

See, that's why Dominic Deegan makes for such wonderful Snark Bait. It has the potential to be good (or at least not sucky), so Mookie has to really work to make it bad. So it's not bad in a dull way like, say, Ctrl+Alt+Del is, but it takes bad to new and exciting places.

[Humbug]

The other is that Mookie would have all of my copyrights under Derivative Works

I wonder why this doesn't bother people who do fancomics, since they don't own anything other than the story, I guess they are just doing it for fun and want to take their own spin on the characters and universe?

[Monnock]

In fact, I think any sort of sexism you see in Mookie's writing stems from him being a bad writer.

Bingo.

Falling back on stereotypes is an easy way for a bad writer to have 'fleshed out' characters without actually having to do anything.

[Helanna]

Um, hello . . . I'm new to this thread . . . actually, new to DD entirely, I only just finished the archives about 20 minutes ago.

I'd heard that a lot of people thought it turned bad, but when I got to the end, I thought "Well that's not too bad. I think its quality did decrease, but I've read worse. Maybe I didn't like the last arc too much, but it wasn't horrible."

Then I realized that I'd been reading the archives. And then I thought about what I would have felt if I had been reading it on it's update schedule.

Yeah, okay, that would've sucked.

So I'm going to keep reading it and see how it holds up for me when I can only read one new strip at a time. I have an advantage in that I can read things just for fun - ie, I can ignore their flaws and inconsistencies if it's just plain fun to read (although it's MORE fun to read if it doesn't have gaping flaws). And I think that Dominic Deegan is pretty fun to read, but like I said, I'll have to see how it holds up.

Also: I was going to ask how people here viewed the comic - did people like it but not like the current quality, or really hate it, or just find it fun to snark, or what? - but the original post conveniently answered that for me. Awesome.

[Gez]

I like Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire. It's just so inventively bad.

[Mr. Scaly]

Abandon all hope.
Gregory is first caste.
Rachel will be the new sheriff of Barthis.
Dex is immune.
No exploding guts.

I'll settle for some random villagers getting guxploded. It's been forever since some doom and gloom hit the world.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I wonder why this doesn't bother people who do fancomics, since they don't own anything other than the story, I guess they are just doing it for fun and want to take their own spin on the characters and universe?

Pretty much. They're just doing it for kicks, but if they ever actually make it, they run into problems.

I mean, take a look at Brian Clevinger's merchandise; all of his 8-Bit Theater stuff has to be original art, and he sure as heck can't sell books like Brion Foulke does. Brian's real money comes from his "side project" which he can cross-promote with his webcomic.

That was just a fun example though - I don't think Square has ever said boo to him (the Japanese seem to be much laxer with copyright than folks elsewhere). So really, most fancomics are like fanfic - nobody's planning on publishing them... I hope.

Oh, and hi Death Dragon! Welcome to the thread! The truth is that if you don't think too closely about DD it seems pretty good - the problem here is that we analyze things to death... and it does not go well for Mookie when we do. Personally, I think that's why so many DD fans who lurk here join the Snark Side eventually

[averagejoe]

Um, hello . . . I'm new to this thread . . . actually, new to DD entirely, I only just finished the archives about 20 minutes ago.

I'd heard that a lot of people thought it turned bad, but when I got to the end, I thought "Well that's not too bad. I think its quality did decrease, but I've read worse. Maybe I didn't like the last arc too much, but it wasn't horrible."

Then I realized that I'd been reading the archives. And then I thought about what I would have felt if I had been reading it on it's update schedule.

Yeah, okay, that would've sucked.

So I'm going to keep reading it and see how it holds up for me when I can only read one new strip at a time. I have an advantage in that I can read things just for fun - ie, I can ignore their flaws and inconsistencies if it's just plain fun to read (although it's MORE fun to read if it doesn't have gaping flaws). And I think that Dominic Deegan is pretty fun to read, but like I said, I'll have to see how it holds up.

Also: I was going to ask how people here viewed the comic - did people like it but not like the current quality, or really hate it, or just find it fun to snark, or what? - but the original post conveniently answered that for me. Awesome.

I found it charming at first, and there's a lot I liked about the older strips. For me it started to peter out around the Erossus arc, though it was still somewhat compelling. When I got to the orc rape part, however, I knew I had to snark this. I kept reading, because I was almost at the end of the archives and I had read so damn much (I believe the strip was up to Wrapped up and Returned when I entered in. It was December two years ago; I remember because I read it in between studying for finals. (Two years. Has it really been so long?)) I started really thinking about it and realized all the ways that the strip was so bad. I stopped reading for awhile because the thread here was full of fans and I didn't really want to just go in and complain about the strip. However, I always checked periodically, out of curiosity if nothing else. Then, hallelujah, one day it was full of snarkers and all was good.

[Trazoi]

Now that we're dealing with established relationships that I know little about I've finally started working my way through the archives. I'm roughly at the end of the "Ecstacy (sic) and Evil" arc.

I actually liked the first year of the comic. Grumpy, anti-social Dominic with a job he hates together with his demanding cat/familiar Spark made for a decent start. And I liked the dynamic between grouchy Dom and his little brother Greg back when Greg was still crippled.

But Luna - I'm not sure what to make of her even at the beginning. She seemed to dominate the story somewhat right from the start. Dominic seemed uncharactersitically hospitable towards her, given he's a loner by nature. I could see this early Dom being generally kind towards someone in need, but I'd have expected him to be a bit more gruff.

And Luna seems to have an exceptionally large amount of power from the start, which once shown seemed to rub off on the other characters. Their power went all the way to eleven right off the bat.

Still, I liked all the early stories. But I didn't like the somewhat disturbingly violent tones that the whole strip took from the Barthis story ("Visions of Doom") onwards. It seemed way too over the top at times for the style and subject matter, like it is some kind of fetish or something. And it seems to be getting worse the further I go; once Greg did the whole Gohan thing to end that arc there was the whole trip to Sin City - whoo boy.

Somehow, I liked it better when it was about fish inexplicably falling on Dom's head.

[Oracle_Hunter]

But Luna - I'm not sure what to make of her even at the beginning. She seemed to dominate the story somewhat right from the start. Dominic seemed uncharactersitically hospitable towards her, given he's a loner by nature. I could see this early Dom being generally kind towards someone in need, but I'd have expected him to be a bit more gruff.

And Luna seems to have an exceptionally large amount of power from the start, which once shown seemed to rub off on the other characters. Their power went all the way to eleven right off the bat.

Well, partly this is because Dominic is a pervert so he really liked having Luna around the house.

Seriously. There's no way to read that strip without going "creeeeeeeeeepy"

Also, I wouldn't say Luna had "exceptional" amounts of power. Mostly she seemed to have joke fireballs, Illusions, and some other random elemental manipulations. No imprisoning people beyond time and space, to pick an example at random.

She certainly seemed "stronger" than Dominic, but that makes sense - he's a subtle caster, and she is far more blunt. It is true that she powered up greatly as the story went on... or rather, her spells remained really effective, even when they shouldn't have been.

But I agree - I enjoyed the jokes more when it was all about fish landing on Dominic's head. I thought the plotting in "Visions of Doom" was pretty good though, but enjoy drama.

[Lord Seth]

Pretty much. They're just doing it for kicks, but if they ever actually make it, they run into problems.

I mean, take a look at Brian Clevinger's merchandise; all of his 8-Bit Theater stuff has to be original art, and he sure as heck can't sell books like Brion Foulke does. Brian's real money comes from his "side project" which he can cross-promote with his webcomic.

Well, I assume he makes some money from the ads on his site as well.

Well, partly this is because Dominic is a pervert so he really liked having Luna around the house.

Seriously. There's no way to read that strip without going "creeeeeeeeeepy"

Well let's be fair, that was back when the strip wasn't too serious and was just being silly. It's mostly only creepy when you look back at it from post-Cerebus Syndrome Deegan.

[FoE]

It’s Close To Midnight And Something Evil’s Lurking In The Dark
Under The Moonlight You See A Sight That Almost Stops Your Heart
You Try To Scream But Terror Takes The Sound Before You Make It
You Start To Freeze As Horror Looks You Right Between The Eyes,
You’re Paralyzed

‘Cause This Is Filler, Filler Night
And No One’s Gonna Save You From The Beast About to Strike
You Know It’s Filler, Filler Night
You’re Fighting For Your Life Inside A Killer, Filler Tonight

[Justyn]

I know that I am committing a heresy here but it must be said.

Mookie is holding out on us, he can actually produce quality art. As an art student, I know how hard it is to draw the human face, and this actually pretty good. All I have to say that the back of Celesto's collar should be seen there, and just going by Celesto's build, there should be some indication of his clavicles.

All in all, he does have talent, it just looks like he should practice. Good art really only requires three things: practice, talent, and practice. Yes, I know that I listed practice twice, it bares repeating.

[Jayngfet]

That's way too similar to something I'd draw for mt comfort, hell I used to do noses the exact same way.

Of course since I'm familiar with mookie's art style and practice a bit I can see differences(he draws rounder ears, the collar(collars give me so much trouble I avoid them unless necessary), the eyes are different(I never could get my head around how eyes with spaces work).

But yeah, that's along general guidelines of how I would do it, his hair is arguably better(I only bother with hair if it's made impossible and awesome).

[Jerthanis]

News: Celesto looked pretty much the same when he was young as he does now.

[Humbug]

Eh, Mookie obviously put alot more work on Celesto's portrait, but there's nothing amazing about it, I mean, how much can you screw up the neck and shoulders? And he actually managed to draw some semblance of a nose again. Celesto has kidney shaped ears tho, I wonder how does he hear? Not very well I reckon.

This is something I've been meaning to do for some time now, just my take on Luna. I imagine her to have an underbite, with her tusks jutting out at an angle, or else how can she close her mouth without piercing her cheeks? She probably wouldn't be able to fully close her mouth either. Kissing Dom would be a bitch, hur hur.

[averagejoe]

Kissing Dom would be a bitch, hur hur.

This has already been established. And forgotten.

[Humbug]

Yea, I have no idea how they can do a full-on make-out session without Luna ripping Dom's lips to shreds.

[Johnny Blade]

I'll settle for some random villagers getting guxploded. It's been forever since some doom and gloom hit the world.

Ah, well, then the chances are high, of course. With Celesto around, TIM probably isn't too far away either, so I guess there will be gore.

Well, partly this is because Dominic is a pervert so he really liked having Luna around the house.

Seriously. There's no way to read that strip without going "creeeeeeeeeepy"

Inserting the groin puncher helps. I tend to do that a lot - reading the comics where Dominic is creepy, elitistic, or just behaves like the ******* he is, and then imagining he'd get his comeuppance on the spot.

Edit: What, they still censor this? Damn...

Spoiler

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Also, I wouldn't say Luna had "exceptional" amounts of power. Mostly she seemed to have joke fireballs, Illusions, and some other random elemental manipulations. No imprisoning people beyond time and space, to pick an example at random.

She certainly seemed "stronger" than Dominic, but that makes sense - he's a subtle caster, and she is far more blunt. It is true that she powered up greatly as the story went on... or rather, her spells remained really effective, even when they shouldn't have been.

But I agree - I enjoyed the jokes more when it was all about fish landing on Dominic's head. I thought the plotting in "Visions of Doom" was pretty good though, but enjoy drama.

I'm not going to start any arguments about the quality of the early Dominic Deegan strips here, but I have to say, the ending of Visions of Doom was dumb. It wasn't that bad, as the comic was a lot more about slapstick back then, but dumb nonetheless.

By the way, I think the power creep actually started during the Ecstasy and Evil arc you linked to.
I think I might just blame Miranda for it all.

Eh, Mookie obviously put alot more work on Celesto's portrait, but there's nothing amazing about it, I mean, how much can you screw up the neck and shoulders? And he actually managed to draw some semblance of a nose again. Celesto has kidney shaped ears tho, I wonder how does he hear? Not very well I reckon.

You're right, of course. Even worse, Mookie managed to draw this portrait in a way that allowed him to bypass any difficulties - the art style justifies the hair, nose and eyes, maybe even the ears, and the perspective isn't exactly hard to do either. Thus, he has rid himself of the opportunity to fail, which I find deplorable.
Oh well, if Mookie decided to fail at failing for the first time, I'm glad he chose this pointless filler for this experiment.

Spoiler

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This is something I've been meaning to do for some time now, just my take on Luna. I imagine her to have an underbite, with her tusks jutting out at an angle, or else how can she close her mouth without piercing her cheeks? She probably wouldn't be able to fully close her mouth either. Kissing Dom would be a bitch, hur hur.

That looks really good - a lot better than the original art, obviously, and more appropriate for the comic too.

Anyway, either I have missed something, or you passed up a perfect chance to plug your webcomic - which needs to be done, as I don't know where it can be found or what its name is.

Yea, I have no idea how they can do a full-on make-out session without Luna ripping Dom's lips to shreds.

One of them probably knows some white magic.

[Gez]

She probably asked Melna how the Orcs do it.

[Wraith]

Also, I wouldn't say Luna had "exceptional" amounts of power. Mostly she seemed to have joke fireballs, Illusions, and some other random elemental manipulations. No imprisoning people beyond time and space, to pick an example at random.

I 'm not sure I agree with you, sir - I have always thought of Luna as having been marked as a prodigy ever since her early inceptions. Even Milov - a well educated and extremely skilled Spellwolf - remarks on it, long before Luna was entrusted to use a 5th Level Archmage's Staff against an extremely old and powerful Necromancer under world-saving conditions. Since then, she's worked in one of the most well-established universities on the world along side some of the most famous magical 'scientists' alive and has continued to prove herself at least their equal.

Now that even Rillian is taking an interest in her abilities suggests that there's even more to come. I'm afraid we might even be looking at another Gregory-style Super Saiyen in Disguise Moment creeping over the horizon....

[Mr. Scaly]

Ah, well, then the chances are high, of course. With Celesto around, TIM probably isn't too far away either, so I guess there will be gore.

Either way I'll have to wait until the filler is done... Is it just me or do all webcomics insert filler at the worst possible time?

[Oracle_Hunter]

All in all, he does have talent, it just looks like he should practice. Good art really only requires three things: practice, talent, and practice. Yes, I know that I listed practice twice, it bares repeating.

This is why I constantly say "Mookie is lazy" - because his art hasn't improved in the years he's been doing this strip; worse, it looks like he's cheapened his style to make it easier to draw (or cut 'n paste, as seems increasingly likely )

Has Mookie been going to more cons lately? It might just be me, but he seems to pull this "gtg con, filler time!" thing a lot as of late. This shows a worrying lack of attention to DD - it really does look like he's fallen into a pure "coasting" strategy, where he just keeps DD updating to maintain his invitations to cons, where he can be a big fish in a small bowl.

Perhaps this is overtly harsh of me, but I find it really hard to excuse Mookie (or anyone!) of laziness to this degree. Even Piro at least seems to be trying, even if he's one of the most erratic updaters out there.

[Humbug]

Anyway, either I have missed something, or you passed up a perfect chance to plug your webcomic - which needs to be done, as I don't know where it can be found or what its name is.

I've plugged my comic before, aaaaaages ago, it should be easy to find, as it's the only thread I made throughout my entirety of posting. Maybe I'll bump it someday. I'd rather you look at my other comic, as that one is better drawn, but updates like once a month.

One of them probably knows some white magic.

Ouch, Dom must have some masochist tendencies to want to constantly endure that kind of torture.

[Gez]

Anyway, either I have missed something, or you passed up a perfect chance to plug your webcomic - which needs to be done, as I don't know where it can be found or what its name is.

Tales öf Pylea
The heävÿ mëtal ümläüt is the source of its power.