Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

[Kish]

You want Medivh to break it, though, because then it refunds the cost of playing him.

Or you could play the Lich King or Alexstraza or any 8+ cost minion, hit something with the Twig, and handwave that it "refunded the cost of playing" the Lich King or whatever.

Still not a combo, and Psyren's explained what he meant and it was unrelated to this anyway.

[Destro_Yersul]

Or you could play the Lich King or Alexstraza or any 8+ cost minion, hit something with the Twig, and handwave that it "refunded the cost of playing" the Lich King or whatever.

Still not a combo, and Psyren's explained what he meant and it was unrelated to this anyway.

But playing those other things doesn't let you then also play Ultimate Infestation for a free 10 drop.

[Psyren]

If dungeon run lets you complete quests, it'll have staying power. Otherwise it's a one and done like the old Adventures were.

Indeed - and while "one and done" is fine for a simple adventure, one of the hallmarks of a roguelike is endless replayability. Letting you complete quests there would fit with that really well, so I hope they do that.

Charged Ravasaur (whatever the 8 mana 7/7 charge) would also be really good.

Chompy!

I wouldn't be surprised if the win rate for DKs in arena were in line with other very strong Legendaries (like Lich King), but the feeling of losing to a DK was bad enough that they banned them.

That feeling is justified though, because there's no interaction. Your opponent plays them, they have a game-changing "battlecry", and then they get a bonkers hero power for the remainder of the game that can often let them win on its own. Oh, and they all help stall by "healing" for 5.

Legendary creatures are different - most decks can deal with creatures, even big creatures, because they expect to have to be able to. For the most part, dealing with Lich King is not much different than dealing with the likes of a mammoth.

[The_Jackal]

I do agree the hype overall feels lower... but honestly I feel like we're going to end up with a better metagame overall than we had in KoFT.

The only thing that fixes the metagame is when Jade rotates out of the standard set.

[gomipile]

The only thing that fixes the metagame is when Jade rotates out of the standard set.

O.o

The only time I've seen Jade druid lately is when I run it. Other than that, the only Jade I see these days is the occasional shaman with Jade Lightning.

[The Glyphstone]

From the patch notes: New daily quest – Spelunker: Defeat 5 Dungeon Run encounters. Reward: 1 Classic card pack.

It'll have some replayability.

Im more looking for the ability to get X wins as Class Y in a PVE context.

[Zevox]

So, having looked at the Druid weapon, I think it might actually be really good, just not as ramp. The mana crystals it gives you aren't empty, meaning you could potentially have a 20 mana turn. You can also run Medivh, and play him on turn 8, destroying your weapon and letting you play ultimate infestation immediately for a random 10 drop.

That's been suggested before. Personally, I don't think it'll make the Druid weapon worth running - as a two-legendary combo it's not going to be easy to assemble consistently since you get only one of each in your deck, and the Druid weapon is pretty bad without exactly that combo. Plus, frankly, I don't think it's that much better than just playing Medihv and then playing Ultimate Infestation next turn. Not enough so that it's worth running a 1/5 for 4 weapon in your deck, anyway.

I disagree on the Paladin weapon, it's quite strong. Druid's "combo" is easy (Ultimate lolfestation, then play cards). As for the Priest, Lyra is still in Standard is she not? Meanwhile, Hunter is the bad one, or at the very least the one that needs to warp your entire deck.

Shaman weapon is expensive, and requiring you to attack even when you're losing is not a great proposition, but it can still win losing games all on its own just like Shelly did. Weak in constructed, certainly, but it can save your buttocks in Arena by itself and is thus going to be a strong pick no matter what other legs show up beside it.

Paladin weapon's problem is that it's very slow - just a 4/2 weapon for 6 when it comes down, then it's giving a buff to a minion you have to pay more mana to put out. And that buff is a statline that isn't usually preferred for value buffs (more attack than health). Plus it can be ended by silence or Polymorph/Hex on the buffed minion. I agree that it's a great card if you could actually get the value over time that it offers - but the fact that Control Paladin has been sadly a weak deck for some time now suggests to me that that isn't likely, and I don't see this weapon, or any of the other new Paladin cards, as likely to change that.

Druid I addressed above. Priest, yes Lyra is a thing - a thing that these days just gets run in some Raza Priests because why not, basically. But Lyra is giving you cards every single time you cast a spell. The weapon is giving you a single medium-size minion per three spells in a single turn, which is significantly worse than Lyra. Without Lyra on the board to refill your hand, you'll be emptying it awfully fast trying to trigger that thing. And I don't personally think Lyra plus the weapon is a particularly feasible combo - as I mentioned with Druid, two legendaries is going to be a hard combo to put together, and one piece of it being just bad without exactly the other is generally a sign of a combo that isn't viable. Plus, if any of these legendary weapons takes off at all, people will just start running Oozes and Harrison more, which will make combo-oriented weapons like that that much worse (it's a lot harder to get a good Lyra turn if you're also paying 3 mana for the weapon in the same turn, after all).

As for Shaman, comparing their weapon to an already bad card just shows how bad it is. Tortollan Primalist is a desperation pick and play even in arena, and nowhere near constructed viability. So too will that weapon be.

Hooked reaver also excites me as it reminds me of pre-nerf molten giant. With jades existing they might beat it down but I'm hopeful for a return to handlock or something similar. Warlocks got some decent cards this time and they added some more good demons and a few demon synergy cards. They really need some good healing though beyond just their hero card (dark pact may actually see play if control warlock is a thing).

I did think of that comparison, and yeah, in that light Hooked Reaver is a good-looking one. It also has an upside on Molten Giant in that it will work with Jaraxxus - though whether we'll ever see him again while Bloodreaver Gul'dan is around is unclear I suppose. Still, the problem with it is that if you're forced to play it as a 4/4, it's pretty sad, so I'm not as enthusiastic about that one as the Dragon Priest cards.

The only thing that fixes the metagame is when Jade rotates out of the standard set.

I am going to miss Jade when it rotates out, personally. One of my favorite new archetypes they've ever introduced (and I'm saying that as someone who has played more Jade Rogue than Druid or Shaman, even). Way more fun than anything I see in this set.

[tonberrian]

Maybe if everyone starts running Oozes against the other weapons, but I doubt it.

[Kish]

But playing those other things doesn't let you then also play Ultimate Infestation for a free 10 drop.

...okay, you seem to have lost the thread here somewhere. Are you under the impression the text of Twig of the World Tree is "if this is destroyed by some means other than being used up, gain 10 mana crystals"?

Either way, I'll be bowing out of this particular subthread, since I got an answer to the question I asked and now we're arguing over what Psyren might hypothetically have meant but didn't.

[ChaosOS]

Re: Druid Weapon

While I agree that the druid weapon is kinda meh, I see two uses

One: Medivh has the advantage of overwriting a weapon you've recently played, as you won't get to jam it on t3/t4 every game you've drawn medivh by t8

Two: It enables degenerate combos like Malygos-Swipe-Swipe. Wild druid has a few more direct damage spells (Living Roots comes to mind), so Maly Druid may be coming back

[Psyren]

Paladin weapon's problem is that it's very slow - just a 4/2 weapon for 6 when it comes down, then it's giving a buff to a minion you have to pay more mana to put out.

This is Sunk Cost Fallacy - you'd have played that buffed minion anyway even without the buff, otherwise what's it doing in your deck? So you're not paying any more than you would have without the hammer. And because the hammer keeps re-equipping, it'll pay for itself easily (even one cycle is enough.) I consider it more added bonus than a win condition in and of itself.

Druid I addressed above.

You addressed the "Medivh combo" but that wasn't me - I was referring tosimply using it as a Kun, without Medivh at all. The benefit is not from ramping or getting a 10-drop, it's from effectively drawing 5 cards for zero mana (plus all the other benefits UI gives you.)

As for Shaman, comparing their weapon to an already bad card just shows how bad it is. Tortollan Primalist is a desperation pick and play even in arena, and nowhere near constructed viability. So too will that weapon be.

Again, not arguing with constructed, but you're dead wrong about Primalist in Arena. Pros like Kripp and Amaz have called people out for sleeping on this card, much as I'm about to do to you.

See what you're not realizing is that random-target spells aren't actually all that random - the majority of them, regardless of class, benefit you. Spells that draw cards can only help you; Secrets can only help you; AoE has no targets at all, and even when you get to spot burn and removal, most of that hurts enemies or helps allies exclusively. In comparison, only a relative handful can potentially hurt your minions or help enemy ones, and even then you can tilt the odds in your favor via intelligent trading or simply by being behind (which is generally when you'd want to roll the dice on game-changer effects like these anyway.)

And all of the above is just for a purely random, Servant of Yogg effect - both Primalist and this weapon go a step further by letting you discover the effect you want, stacking the deck even more in your favor. Now granted, unlike Primalist the weapon is a Shaman card, so you'll generally be stuck with Shaman spells - but that includes a lot of AoE too, stuff like Maelstrom, Volcano, Lightning Storm, or Devolve. In short, the idea is that you drop this and swing when you're behind (just like you would with Primalist) and if you're ahead, it can rest comfortably in your hand or even equipped to your person until needed.

So you can dismiss it as "desperation" but the pros still draft it, because everyone can use a good comeback mechanic.

[Destro_Yersul]

...okay, you seem to have lost the thread here somewhere. Are you under the impression the text of Twig of the World Tree is "if this is destroyed by some means other than being used up, gain 10 mana crystals"?

Either way, I'll be bowing out of this particular subthread, since I got an answer to the question I asked and now we're arguing over what Psyren might hypothetically have meant but didn't.

You confuse me. My argument was that a 7/7, a 5/5, and a random 10 drop in one turn is better than a 5/5 and some other big thing, because you also get a random 10 drop. So, no, I don't think it's me that lost the thread.

[Zevox]

...okay, you seem to have lost the thread here somewhere. Are you under the impression the text of Twig of the World Tree is "if this is destroyed by some means other than being used up, gain 10 mana crystals"?

The Druid weapon's effect is a Deathrattle, so it triggers whenever they weapon is destroyed, whether that's because it gets used up, it gets destroyed by an Ooze/Harrison, or because it gets overwritten by another weapon. Same as Death's Bite or Blood Razor, for comparison.

Re: Druid Weapon

While I agree that the druid weapon is kinda meh, I see two uses

One: Medivh has the advantage of overwriting a weapon you've recently played, as you won't get to jam it on t3/t4 every game you've drawn medivh by t8

Two: It enables degenerate combos like Malygos-Swipe-Swipe. Wild druid has a few more direct damage spells (Living Roots comes to mind), so Maly Druid may be coming back

Hm, that's a fair point, Malygos Druid has been a thing in the past. But I wouldn't bet on that one either, because unlike Medihv, that one will require you to actually use all five swings of the weapon to pull it off.

This is Sunk Cost Fallacy - you'd have played that buffed minion anyway even without the buff, otherwise what's it doing in your deck? So you're not paying any more than you would have without the hammer. And because the hammer keeps re-equipping, it'll pay for itself easily (even one cycle is enough.) I consider it more added bonus than a win condition in and of itself.

Oh that's certainly what it is, no doubt. But again, my point was that it's slow: its immediate impact is 4 damage for 6 mana, which isn't great, and it takes a fair amount of time for the rest of its value to add up, and that's if it doesn't get disrupted by silence or transformation effects. This in a deck that already isn't good due to getting overrun by tempo decks and being unable to compete with the infinite value of Jade Druid or the kill combo of Raza Priest for late-game win condition, neither of which are issues this seems like it will help much with. Much as I'd personally wish otherwise, since I've always liked Control Paladin, I don't believe it'll work any better with that new weapon than it does now.

You addressed the "Medivh combo" but that wasn't me - I was referring tosimply using it as a Kun, without Medivh at all. The benefit is not from ramping or getting a 10-drop, it's from effectively drawing 5 cards for zero mana (plus all the other benefits UI gives you.)

The Medihv combo is the best application of the card I've seen put forward - obviously strictly better than just using the weapon and Ultimate Infestation, since you also get a bonus 10-drop out of it, and don't need to spend 5 turns swinging with a 1-attack weapon to set it up. Pretty clearly if I don't think the Medihv combo is good enough, I don't think just using the card with no combo of any sort will be either.

Again, not arguing with constructed, but you're dead wrong about Primalist in Arena. Pros like Kripp and Amaz have called people out for sleeping on this card, much as I'm about to do to you.

See what you're not realizing is that random-target spells aren't actually all that random - the majority of them, regardless of class, benefit you. Spells that draw cards can only help you; Secrets can only help you; AoE has no targets at all, and even when you get to spot burn and removal, most of that hurts enemies or helps allies exclusively. In comparison, only a relative handful can potentially hurt your minions or help enemy ones, and even then you can tilt the odds in your favor via intelligent trading or simply by being behind (which is generally when you'd want to roll the dice on game-changer effects like these anyway.)

And all of the above is just for a purely random, Servant of Yogg effect - both Primalist and this weapon go a step further by letting you discover the effect you want, stacking the deck even more in your favor. Now granted, unlike Primalist the weapon is a Shaman card, so you'll generally be stuck with Shaman spells - but that includes a lot of AoE too, stuff like Maelstrom, Volcano, Lightning Storm, or Devolve. In short, the idea is that you drop this and swing when you're behind (just like you would with Primalist) and if you're ahead, it can rest comfortably in your hand or even equipped to your person until needed.

So you can dismiss it as "desperation" but the pros still draft it, because everyone can use a good comeback mechanic.

If you say so, I suppose. I admittedly don't play arena much. I will say that on the rare occassion that I have, and have been put into a situation where I drafted the Primalist, I was always unhappy with the results, though. It is the definition of an unreliable card.

[Psyren]

Hm, that's a fair point, Malygos Druid has been a thing in the past. But I wouldn't bet on that one either, because unlike Medihv, that one will require you to actually use all five swings of the weapon to pull it off.

That's easy to do if you play it on turn 4. Keep in mind that combined with your hero power, you're can swing for 2 damage per turn - hardly insignificant, as any shadowpriest will tell you, and helping you trade upwards while you get the weapon down to 1 HP.

Oh that's certainly what it is, no doubt. But again, my point was that it's slow: its immediate impact is 4 damage for 6 mana, which isn't great, and it takes a fair amount of time for the rest of its value to add up, and that's if it doesn't get disrupted by silence or transformation effects. This in a deck that already isn't good due to getting overrun by tempo decks and being unable to compete with the infinite value of Jade Druid or the kill combo of Raza Priest for late-game win condition, neither of which are issues this seems like it will help much with. Much as I'd personally wish otherwise, since I've always liked Control Paladin, I don't believe it'll work any better with that new weapon than it does now.

As I've said to you numerous times in the past, not every card (even legendaries) is designed for constructed. You may not prefer that but it's the truth.

The Medihv combo is the best application of the card I've seen put forward - obviously strictly better than just using the weapon and Ultimate Infestation, since you also get a bonus 10-drop out of it, and don't need to spend 5 turns swinging with a 1-attack weapon to set it up. Pretty clearly if I don't think the Medihv combo is good enough, I don't think just using the card with no combo of any sort will be either.

Except you're far, far more likely to get UI+Twig in Arena than you will UI+Twig+Medivh. One of these things is actually plausible.

If you say so, I suppose. I admittedly don't play arena much. I will say that on the rare occassion that I have, and have been put into a situation where I drafted the Primalist, I was always unhappy with the results, though. It is the definition of an unreliable card.

Lots of discover cards are unreliable, but consistency of effect is not the only factor that makes a card good. Magnitude matters too, especially when - again, as previously mentioned - the decision of when to play it rests on you.

[Seerow]

Oh that's certainly what it is, no doubt. But again, my point was that it's slow: its immediate impact is 4 damage for 6 mana, which isn't great, and it takes a fair amount of time for the rest of its value to add up, and that's if it doesn't get disrupted by silence or transformation effects. This in a deck that already isn't good due to getting overrun by tempo decks and being unable to compete with the infinite value of Jade Druid or the kill combo of Raza Priest for late-game win condition, neither of which are issues this seems like it will help much with. Much as I'd personally wish otherwise, since I've always liked Control Paladin, I don't believe it'll work any better with that new weapon than it does now.

I'm not going to get in on the Twig argument, but I will defend the Paladin weapon. While a 4/2 weapon for 6 isn't fantastic value, it is not terrible. For comparison Arcanite Reaper is a 5/2 for 5, and Paladin already has a 4/2 weapon for 4. If the only thing this weapon does is act as a 4/2 weapon, and get its handbuff off on one minion, it's basically paid for itself. I won't deny it's slow, but it isn't so slow it's unplayable, and the minimum overall value is pretty good. If the first minion that gets the buff isn't silenced/transformed, the value just skyrockets from there.

So won't it just get silenced? That's really hard to say. The thing with Paladin, especially in the upcoming expansion, is you will have so many good silence targets, your opponent can't possibly get them all. Oh, you silenced my weapon? I guess I lost some value there but at least you're not also silencing my Spikeridge Steed. Oh you silenced that too? Well now you have no answer for my Lynessa. Or my Tirion. Seriously, most decks can only afford to run 1-2 silence effects. Paladins are approaching an identity of "Yes I get screwed by silence, but good luck silencing all of this". I feel like Buff Paladin will end up being a thing because of it. But even if not, a standard midrange Paladin deck can easily run 5+ threats that require not just hard removal, but a silence to reliably answer. If the weapon's main effect is you get to drop Lynessa unanswered on the following turn? I'd call that a win.

[Zevox]

That's easy to do if you play it on turn 4. Keep in mind that combined with your hero power, you're can swing for 2 damage per turn - hardly insignificant, as any shadowpriest will tell you, and helping you trade upwards while you get the weapon down to 1 HP.

You can't remotely count on playing it on turn 4 though - ask anyone who's ever used Kazakus. And even if you do, that's an awfully weak turn 4 which is just asking for aggro or tempo decks to walk all over you.

As I've said to you numerous times in the past, not every card (even legendaries) is designed for constructed. You may not prefer that but it's the truth.

Perhaps I should specify this for you then, since you keep feeling the need to say that: unless I specifically mention another format, my comments are about standard constructed, since that's what I play and care about. If I mean arena or wild, I'll say that specifically. You'll notice that I rarely mention the former and practically never mention the latter, though.

Except you're far, far more likely to get UI+Twig in Arena than you will UI+Twig+Medivh. One of these things is actually plausible.

But you're far more likely to actually get to use Twig + Medihv + UI, because Medihv bypasses the need to swing the weapon five times. That's one of the big problems the weapon has: without a way to destroy it on command, it's horrendously slow, and a weak play for the mana until you've used it up.

Lots of discover cards are unreliable, but consistency of effect is not the only factor that makes a card good. Magnitude matters too, especially when - again, as previously mentioned - the decision of when to play it rests on you.

The magnitude is also unreliable, since it can always give you three weak spells to pick from, or a combination of weak spells plus spells that aren't helpful for your situation (i.e. card draw doesn't help if you really need board wipe). That was my experience with it, personally.

But again, I don't play much arena, and that's not really the mode I care about anyway, so if you say so, fair enough. Arena just doesn't factor into my evaluations of cards much, which is why my opinions of Tortollan Primalist and the new Shaman weapon are what they are. Fair?

I'm not going to get in on the Twig argument, but I will defend the Paladin weapon. While a 4/2 weapon for 6 isn't fantastic value, it is not terrible. For comparison Arcanite Reaper is a 5/2 for 5, and Paladin already has a 4/2 weapon for 4. If the only thing this weapon does is act as a 4/2 weapon, and get its handbuff off on one minion, it's basically paid for itself. I won't deny it's slow, but it isn't so slow it's unplayable, and the minimum overall value is pretty good. If the first minion that gets the buff isn't silenced/transformed, the value just skyrockets from there.

So won't it just get silenced? That's really hard to say. The thing with Paladin, especially in the upcoming expansion, is you will have so many good silence targets, your opponent can't possibly get them all. Oh, you silenced my weapon? I guess I lost some value there but at least you're not also silencing my Spikeridge Steed. Oh you silenced that too? Well now you have no answer for my Lynessa. Or my Tirion. Seriously, most decks can only afford to run 1-2 silence effects. Paladins are approaching an identity of "Yes I get screwed by silence, but good luck silencing all of this". I feel like Buff Paladin will end up being a thing because of it. But even if not, a standard midrange Paladin deck can easily run 5+ threats that require not just hard removal, but a silence to reliably answer. If the weapon's main effect is you get to drop Lynessa unanswered on the following turn? I'd call that a win.

Again, the problem with that one isn't that the card isn't a good value, it's that the deck it wants to be in isn't good enough against other strong decks, and the weapon doesn't address its issues against them. Nor, I think, do any of the other new Paladin cards. That's why I said it was questionable: it's not lacking potential, it's lacking a sufficiently good deck to go in, and it doesn't help make that deck better in a way that matters.

For what it's worth, I would (slightly hesitantly because of the Warlock weapon) say it's probably the second best of the legendary weapons, after the Mage one. I just wish that were higher praise than I believe it to be.

[Seerow]

Again, the problem with that one isn't that the card isn't a good value, it's that the deck it wants to be in isn't good enough against other strong decks, and the weapon doesn't address its issues against them. Nor, I think, do any of the other new Paladin cards. That's why I said it was questionable: it's not lacking potential, it's lacking a sufficiently good deck to go in, and it doesn't help make that deck better in a way that matters.

Midrange Murloc Paladin was a really good deck in Un'goro. I feel like a few substitutions with the new cards could bring it back into the picture. I'm not saying it's certain, but I definitely have a sunnier outlook on it than you.

For what it's worth, I would (slightly hesitantly because of the Warlock weapon) say it's probably the second best of the legendary weapons, after the Mage one. I just wish that were higher praise than I believe it to be.

Really, Warlock seems to be the worst of the legendary weapons because its effect triggers at the start of your turn, making for a very real possibility of 6 mana do nothing. If it does trigger, avoiding the negative battlecries many demons come with is huge... it'll come down to how weapon removal heavy the meta ends up being. At the very least I expect it to be trash for the first two weeks as people tech against expected legendary weapon focused decks, with that anti-weapon hate. Later on as the meta shakes out that will probably fade to background and this could see play... but I am still leery about it.

[Zevox]

Midrange Murloc Paladin was a really good deck in Un'goro. I feel like a few substitutions with the new cards could bring it back into the picture. I'm not saying it's certain, but I definitely have a sunnier outlook on it than you.

I can't say that I see it as a midrange card myself - too slow for that. It strikes me as specifically designed for a control deck. We'll see though I guess.

Really, Warlock seems to be the worst of the legendary weapons because its effect triggers at the start of your turn, making for a very real possibility of 6 mana do nothing. If it does trigger, avoiding the negative battlecries many demons come with is huge... it'll come down to how weapon removal heavy the meta ends up being. At the very least I expect it to be trash for the first two weeks as people tech against expected legendary weapon focused decks, with that anti-weapon hate. Later on as the meta shakes out that will probably fade to background and this could see play... but I am still leery about it.

It would only be 5 mana do nothing in the event of weapon destruction - which, granted, could become more popular if any of the legendary weapons get any popularity, so that is a real issue, to be sure. My thinking though is less about avoiding battlecries than simply cheating out big demons early for no mana cost (after the 5 up front for the weapon itself of course). Like Big Priest, except the demons keep coming as long as you've got them in your hand. The best targets would be Doomguard, because charge and no discards, the new Void Lord, and maybe even Jaraxxus (remember how good throwing him onto the board via Voidwalker used to be?), but Abyssal Enforcer is also viable as simply a big body to get, and Despicable Dreadlord is of course good. With two copies of the non-legendaries that's at least 8-9 good pulls there, nearly a third of a deck, without even needing to dig into cards that would be good to pull with the weapon but bad if you had to play them normally.

That said, yeah, it could easily not be strong enough. Unlike Big Priest you're not pulling these out of your deck or resurrecting the dead, they need to be in your hand to get pulled, which is definitely more limiting, and you only have one of the weapon compared to the several tools Big Priest uses to cheat out its strong minions. And it's vulnerable to weapon hate, and some of the minions you'll be pulling won't have an immediate impact, and most just have less stats than the minions Big Priest drops. So I'm still not optimistic on it - it's just one of the few that strikes me as having real potential.

[Psyren]

Perhaps I should specify this for you then, since you keep feeling the need to say that: unless I specifically mention another format, my comments are about standard constructed, since that's what I play and care about. If I mean arena or wild, I'll say that specifically. You'll notice that I rarely mention the former and practically never mention the latter, though.

Whereas mine are primarily about Arena., so we're probably just going to keep talking past each other and we should just drop it. I have no idea how good most of these will end up being in constructed, until the typical narrow meta emerges.

But I will echo Seerow's comment - you're vastly overestimating the prevalence of Silence even if we do focus on constructed. And in Arena it's all but nonexistent.

[Zevox]

Whereas mine are primarily about Arena., so we're probably just going to keep talking past each other and we should just drop it. I have no idea how good most of these will end up being in constructed, until the typical narrow meta emerges.

But I will echo Seerow's comment - you're vastly overestimating the prevalence of Silence even if we do focus on constructed. And in Arena it's all but nonexistent.

No, I'm not, I'm just bringing up silence as one of several weaknesses I see the card as having. The biggest issue, in my mind, remains that the deck the card wants to be in, Control Paladin, is currently bad, and none of the new cards seem to me like they give it the help it needs to change that.

[ChaosOS]

Warlock weapon most fits what people said would happen with the legendary weapons - "Going to be wrekt by weapon removal but super good if not". Cheating demons into play is *very* strong, and start of turn happens to work well with Doomguard. I'm definitely going to try the skull in my wild control demonlock if I pull it, although I'll also probably bench that deck for a few weeks since the meta will be weapon-removal crazy the first few weeks.

[boomwolf]

Honestly, the weapons are good but most are not really impressive.
Hunter one helps enable "solo hunter", rouge enables "weapon buff rouge", but otherwise they are mostly gimmick.


What's probably the most dangerous card this set is the mage elemental that discounts cards that you didn't have in your deck.

Its just getting too deep into elemental death knight quest mage easy realm.

[Psyren]

No, I'm not, I'm just bringing up silence as one of several weaknesses I see the card as having. The biggest issue, in my mind, remains that the deck the card wants to be in, Control Paladin, is currently bad, and none of the new cards seem to me like they give it the help it needs to change that.

That makes no sense to me. Why would a handbuff mechanic want to be in control? Seems to me it would fit much more comfortably in midrange or aggro - taking already cost-effective minions and giving them even more value.

Also, there is a potential hidden interaction with this card and minions that copy themselves, like Saronite Chain-Gang and Doppelgangster - which, again, fit more comfortably in midrange.

[Joran]

That makes no sense to me. Why would a handbuff mechanic want to be in control? Seems to me it would fit much more comfortably in midrange or aggro - taking already cost-effective minions and giving them even more value.

Also, there is a potential hidden interaction with this card and minions that copy themselves, like Saronite Chain-Gang and Doppelgangster - which, again, fit more comfortably in midrange.

This, absolutely this.

The weapon is going to rely on a new deck that's probably similar to current Handbuff decks. 6 mana for a 4/2 weapon is poor tempo-wise; the 5 mana 4/2 shaman weapon sees fringe play in Constructed, mostly as an Aggro finisher. Truesilver is frequently too slow now, especially because 3 health seems to be among the most common minion health in the early game.

So, for it to work, the Paladin legendary is going to need to go in a deck where that 4/2 buff can gain immediate tempo value, so think chargers or taunts; Wickerflame, the 1/1 divine shield taunt, Corpsetaker, Saronite Chain-Gang. I don't think it'll see play in Murlocs, but more in a handbuff or midrange deck.

Additionally, most decks run at most 1 silence, so if the buff gets silenced off a minion, that means the Spikeridge Steeds, Tirions, or Bonemare buffs won't get silenced.

This is pretty much terrible in any Control Paladin, which runs fewer minions and their threats can be frequently be dealt with regardless of a 4/2 buff on it.

So, I think it's good, but it's going to be meta dependent; it could be too slow.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

May have to play "steal stuff" Rogue on opening week just to have a shot at pulling Twig as Rogue.

[Joran]

May have to play "steal stuff" Rogue on opening week just to have a shot at pulling Twig as Rogue.

Expansion's live in both EU and NA, btw.

I was in the middle of a game, my opponent played a Hallucination and got a new Priest card.

[Mikemical]

Got the Twig as my free legendary, then the game crashed because my country's internet is pathetic.

🔫

[Rocks_Fall]

I got the Twig as well for logging in. On mobile at work so I’ll have to wait to test out the new features!

[The Glyphstone]

I got Woecleaver logging in, and Twig from a pack.

[Destro_Yersul]

I also got the twig. Guess I'll try out the medivh combo, see how it goes.