Help me start a Goblin Kingdom

[GlenSmash!]

So something like the Ferengi Alliance?

I don't know. Do the Ferengi take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week?

[ProsecutorGodot]

Well let's start with the simple part: You are not a good character. Keeping in mind that you're playing Storm King's Thunder, a campaign that a group I'm in will likely be finishing in 2-3 sessions (if we decided to even finish the last of the "side questing") I have firsthand knowledge that you've managed to derail the campaign at it's hook. Your actions thus far could be disguised as neutral, but you've occupied a city in it's worst hour and offered the rightful inhabitants their homes back under heavy penalties. You're also planning to resist an action by a lawful group (Lords Alliance) to bring this community back under the control of its rightful inhabitants by potentially allying with a criminal organization (Zhentarim). You're spiralling pretty far down the rabbit hole and if your DM is strict at keeping track of time you might be in some serious trouble.

That said, compared to how this situation normally works out at your table, this game has maintained a playable status and can be worked with. The main plot of Storm King's Thunder may have been set aside for now but that's not necessarily a bad thing. This seems like a fun type of chaos.

I have two recommendations: One is simple, the other decidedly not as simple.

The Simple Solution - Play out your Goblin Empire fantasy until it's foiled or you choose to move on. At this point there's not a whole lot you can do to make this a longstanding thing. Cities don't rise and fall under new leadership in such a short time, and the ones that do (you might learn about them later so I won't name names) cause an extreme shift in the dynamic of the lands. Eventually factions (The Harpers, Zhentarim, Lords Alliance or even a Herd of Giants) will show up at your doorstep and words will fail. Until that day comes you can eek out a comfortable living in your occupied city doing exactly what the Goblins and Orcs were doing before you got there, albeit a bit nicer. If you really luck out you might not be killed by the opposing faction and instead conscripted into that group.

You would need to ally with someone though, these factions aren't known throughout the realms for no reason. They're HUGE deals, if you cause enough of an issue they can make sure you won't continue to be one.

To simplify: Pick a faction to ally with, ride your success until you can feel it slipping away and get out with your head attached. Preferably take a page from Papa Neverember and take some from the top of city funds so you have something to work with later.

The Complex Solution

Spoiler: Actual Storm King's Thunder Spoilers, keep away if you don't want to know

Show

During the course of your adventures across FR to save the lands from the Giant's you will be given access to an Airship and assuming you defeat the Cloud Giant lord, a flying castle. The castle is immaculate and well fortified. It would keep goblins safe from all non airborne threats. It's also filled with heaps of treasure and valuables to fund any renovations you may need to accommodate small folk as well as food. You even have the opportunity to make powerful allies by capturing this flying castle.

If you've made it this far, it's very likely that you're considered a hero (shockingly) and all those factions that would have kicked you violently out of Nightstone will actually let you keep the Cloud Castle. Even if they don't, at this point they're not as much of a deadly threat.

Short non spoiler version - Dump your current location and go adventuring for a little while, you might find a better opportunity. Take this as a learning experience for your character to have his next kingdom live long and prosper.

[Laserlight]

Would an alliance with the Zhentarim be enough? We might feasibly get one if we open up trade along the Dessarin River.

I don't know. We left that character and the town, and ran into the Zhent a bit later. My character wanted to get connected with them, but it was fated not to be.

Even if the LA send somebody to be the mayor, I'm guessing they won't want to tramp through miles of goblin-controlled wilderness just to try and get to a walled city on an island in the middle of the river with attached keep, which is also manned by goblins. If they do elect somebody, I'd guess they just become a ruler in name only. I really don't care about that.

If they can get taxes out, they can get a mayor in.

[the_brazenburn]

Well let's start with the simple part: You are not a good character. Keeping in mind that you're playing Storm King's Thunder, a campaign that a group I'm in will likely be finishing in 2-3 sessions (if we decided to even finish the last of the "side questing") I have firsthand knowledge that you've managed to derail the campaign at it's hook. Your actions thus far could be disguised as neutral, but you've occupied a city in it's worst hour and offered the rightful inhabitants their homes back under heavy penalties. You're also planning to resist an action by a lawful group (Lords Alliance) to bring this community back under the control of its rightful inhabitants by potentially allying with a criminal organization (Zhentarim). You're spiralling pretty far down the rabbit hole and if your DM is strict at keeping track of time you might be in some serious trouble.

That said, compared to how this situation normally works out at your table, this game has maintained a playable status and can be worked with. The main plot of Storm King's Thunder may have been set aside for now but that's not necessarily a bad thing. This seems like a fun type of chaos.

I have two recommendations: One is simple, the other decidedly not as simple.

The Simple Solution - Play out your Goblin Empire fantasy until it's foiled or you choose to move on. At this point there's not a whole lot you can do to make this a longstanding thing. Cities don't rise and fall under new leadership in such a short time, and the ones that do (you might learn about them later so I won't name names) cause an extreme shift in the dynamic of the lands. Eventually factions (The Harpers, Zhentarim, Lords Alliance or even a Herd of Giants) will show up at your doorstep and words will fail. Until that day comes you can eek out a comfortable living in your occupied city doing exactly what the Goblins and Orcs were doing before you got there, albeit a bit nicer. If you really luck out you might not be killed by the opposing faction and instead conscripted into that group.

You would need to ally with someone though, these factions aren't known throughout the realms for no reason. They're HUGE deals, if you cause enough of an issue they can make sure you won't continue to be one.

To simplify: Pick a faction to ally with, ride your success until you can feel it slipping away and get out with your head attached. Preferably take a page from Papa Neverember and take some from the top of city funds so you have something to work with later.

The Complex Solution

Spoiler: Actual Storm King's Thunder Spoilers, keep away if you don't want to know

Show

During the course of your adventures across FR to save the lands from the Giant's you will be given access to an Airship and assuming you defeat the Cloud Giant lord, a flying castle. The castle is immaculate and well fortified. It would keep goblins safe from all non airborne threats. It's also filled with heaps of treasure and valuables to fund any renovations you may need to accommodate small folk as well as food. You even have the opportunity to make powerful allies by capturing this flying castle.

If you've made it this far, it's very likely that you're considered a hero (shockingly) and all those factions that would have kicked you violently out of Nightstone will actually let you keep the Cloud Castle. Even if they don't, at this point they're not as much of a deadly threat.

Short non spoiler version - Dump your current location and go adventuring for a little while, you might find a better opportunity. Take this as a learning experience for your character to have his next kingdom live long and prosper.

Okay, first I just want to ask a question.

How in the Nine Hells are you planning to finish SKT in three sessions? Do you play for, like, ten hours straight?

The campaign is, I'm pretty sure, supposed to take several months (at least) of weekly two-hour sessions (which is what our table plays), so I'm confused by your claims that you'll be done in two or three sessions. Unless you've already done most of it, and you only have another couple chapters to complete?

Secondly, no, I haven't derailed the campaign in the slightest. We're still questing, filling all the chapters, and traveling all over the Sword Coast. Also, your claims that what I'm doing is evil might be genuine, but your evidence doesn't support your claim. You've been confusing "law" with "good".

Thirdly, I'm not staying in Gobzreikh during the campaign. Since I'm going to be all over the place fighting giants and stuff, I'm trying to set it up sustainably in my absence.

Seriously, man, cool it with the accusations. It's like you're trying to, I don't know, prosecute me or something.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Okay, first I just want to ask a question.

How in the Nine Hells are you planning to finish SKT in three sessions? Do you play for, like, ten hours straight?

The campaign is, I'm pretty sure, supposed to take several months (at least) of weekly two-hour sessions (which is what our table plays), so I'm confused by your claims that you'll be done in two or three sessions. Unless you've already done most of it, and you only have another couple chapters to complete?

Secondly, no, I haven't derailed the campaign in the slightest. We're still questing, filling all the chapters, and traveling all over the Sword Coast. Also, your claims that what I'm doing is evil might be genuine, but your evidence doesn't support your claim. You've been confusing "law" with "good".

Thirdly, I'm not staying in Gobzreikh during the campaign. Since I'm going to be all over the place fighting giants and stuff, I'm trying to set it up sustainably in my absence.

Seriously, man, cool it with the accusations. It's like you're trying to, I don't know, prosecute me or something.

First: I didn't say that I started the campaign recently, just that it's finishing soon. I've been playing it for months now.

Second: You've never mentioned anything about having left the city, as far as I noticed. With the knowledge that you're going to be leaving the city (presumably with less competent defenders than yourself) your DM should realistically have had it taken back and put back under the control of the Lords Alliance or Zhentarim. I know your group dynamic, so that's not going to happen, but these factions outnumber you and outgun you. Your actions are neither lawful or good, I haven't confused either because you are neither.

Third: I prefaced this with saying that it's not an issue and I'm glad this campaign hasn't nosedived like your last few campaigns, even though you're once again going down a non good character route.

[the_brazenburn]

First: I didn't say that I started the campaign recently, just that it's finishing soon. I've been playing it for months now.

Okay, that's fair.

Second: You've never mentioned anything about having left the city, as far as I noticed. With the knowledge that you're going to be leaving the city (presumably with less competent defenders than yourself) your DM should realistically have had it taken back and put back under the control of the Lords Alliance or Zhentarim. I know your group dynamic, so that's not going to happen, but these factions outnumber you and outgun you. Your actions are neither lawful or good, I haven't confused either because you are neither.

Were you reading the campaign thread?

We actually only spent a day or two in Nightstone. We've currently gone to Goldenfields (DM fiat to further the plotline disguised as a diplomatic mission), and are now drawn mostly into the SKT plotline. I'm just wondering how I can try to keep the kingdom afloat, by communicating with underlings while I'm away.

Not a great model for a government, I know.

Third: I prefaced this with saying that it's not an issue and I'm glad this campaign hasn't nosedived like your last few campaigns, even though you're once again going down a non good character route.

I just don't see the "non-good" character route. Sorry, I just don't quite understand (aside from the elf-orc fiasco) what I've done that could be perceived from an unbiased (I know you're going to say that I'm not unbiased) source as evil.

I've galvanized goblin raiders into an organized, less violent society, am attempting to turn them against their previous subservience and disregard for civilized life, freed a bunch of prisoners that would otherwise have been eaten as a spectacle for the obviously evil previous goblin ruler and sent them back to their village, which is currently being reconstructed by us, and am currently making economic alliances with nearby cities.

How is that non-good?

[Unoriginal]

I just don't see the "non-good" character route. Sorry, I just don't quite understand (aside from the elf-orc fiasco) what I've done that could be perceived from an unbiased (I know you're going to say that I'm not unbiased) source as evil.

You're planning to create a bogus religion to keep the masses subservient and ask mobsters for help.


Also, just to you say, having a bogus god in FR is a Big Deal, especially for the afterlife.

[the_brazenburn]

You're planning to create a bogus religion to keep the masses subservient and ask mobsters for help.


Also, just to you say, having a bogus god in FR is a Big Deal, especially for the afterlife.

Blibdoolpoolp?

[ProsecutorGodot]

Were you reading the campaign thread?

We actually only spent a day or two in Nightstone. We've currently gone to Goldenfields (DM fiat to further the plotline disguised as a diplomatic mission), and are now drawn mostly into the SKT plotline. I'm just wondering how I can try to keep the kingdom afloat, by communicating with underlings while I'm away.

Not a great model for a government, I know.

I just don't see the "non-good" character route. Sorry, I just don't quite understand (aside from the elf-orc fiasco) what I've done that could be perceived from an unbiased (I know you're going to say that I'm not unbiased) source as evil.

I've galvanized goblin raiders into an organized, less violent society, am attempting to turn them against their previous subservience and disregard for civilized life, freed a bunch of prisoners that would otherwise have been eaten as a spectacle for the obviously evil previous goblin ruler and sent them back to their village, which is currently being reconstructed by us, and am currently making economic alliances with nearby cities.

How is that non-good?

I did read the campaign thread, a few nitpicks about that though.
-The actual campaign thread doesn't mention anything about a new settlement, I assumed it was Nightstone that you had subjugated. There's simply a throwaway line about a newly formed civilization to ally with Goldenfields, no mention of location.
-If in fact you've already left a settlement without it's leader just days after founding it, your chances of success in keeping it maintained are significantly lower than I first thought
-There's a few very important parts to the start of this campaign that your DM decided not to use that gives you context and motivation for adventuring, likely thrown to the wayside to allow you to play around with city building instead (This isn't a bad thing, play your game how you want) but it does lead me to believe that you are ignorant of how far off book this city building might send you (Again, not a bad thing)

As for the non-good character thing, you admitted yourself that your plan to maintain order in the city is to start a false religion or bribe people. That's not automatically evil, but it's not good.

You're also maintaining a bargain with a nearby city where you get a rather large amount of food, thousands of pounds of food. All you have to do on your end is not raid them, defend them from invasion if you feel like it as well as giving them spoils from your pillaging and raiding.

Whoever signed this agreement on behalf of Goldenfields might need to be removed from their station because they've contracted bandits into the city militia and are condoning raids on neighboring settlements. Even the best case scenario paints you as a group who has taken a bribe from a struggling city to not raid and pillage them.

I'm sure you left out the part when you rescued Nightstones residents that the Elves who chased you out of town are the only reason they have a home to return to seeing as you were more than willing to occupy Nightstone with a marauding, bloodthirsty evil tribe of orcs, but the discussion was done to death in your last thread on how the DM had played both the elves and orcs completely out of character.

To reiterate again though: Your game is still playable, none of the players are unhappy and you're having fun. That means it's going well and I'm glad that it is after the previous trainwreck you shared with us. Don't misunderstand my saying that your character isn't as good aligned as you say they are as me telling you that the campaign has gone in a terrible direction. I just don't want to see you defending your characters evil actions again, as the last time you went down that path the campaign was ruined.

Be aware of those decisions and try to work them into character development. Maybe farther down the line Krangjag will see that trying to build a goblin tribe around a false god and pillaging is exactly the same thing all those bugbears he hates would do, and exactly the sort of thing those "racist" elves and humans expect from him.

[to a mouse]

Goblin Diplomacy

Oh Forgotten Realms campaign, sword coast well then look at your history of the realms for allies. Quick remainder, Murann and its horde is surviving after 4E, to what extent is still to be decide around the mountain range of Small Teeth, my understanding is that the Trade Way has been abandoned due to these incidents. There looking for allies surrounded by Amn (might is right) expansionist policy, The Wealdath ,Tethyr Forest is basically druid and independent in all but name (enemy of my enemy is my meat shield), Tethyr (get them off of me), is hampered by the Calimshan civil war and the intrusion of Bane's zealots from Mintar.


There 's your allied goblin, orc ,ogre society based around the port city of Murann, think Freeport modules piracy, convoy insurance and traders needing allies and hey you up there north on the sword coast looking for allies, go get then, use your player skill. Amn is rich and I mean stinking rich and they have some nasty view on expansionist colonial policy, indenture and poor innocent goblins.

And on the mote about gold, well do what players do loot pillage and crowbar your way round a dungeon or two and I mean loot, doors, furnishing anything and everything can all be used by a goblin society on the upwards trajectory. As a suggestion think of Forge of Fury 5e, your goblins attacking a hostile dragon cultist holdout, that been attacking poor human farmsteads just spin the story to your favour, its all gold.

[the_brazenburn]

As for the non-good character thing, you admitted yourself that your plan to maintain order in the city is to start a false religion or bribe people. That's not automatically evil, but it's not good.

Fair enough. I'd still be hesitant to call that evil, but no need to quibble over that.

You're also maintaining a bargain with a nearby city where you get a rather large amount of food, thousands of pounds of food. All you have to do on your end is not raid them, defend them from invasion if you feel like it as well as giving them spoils from your pillaging and raiding.

Whoever signed this agreement on behalf of Goldenfields might need to be removed from their station because they've contracted bandits into the city militia and are condoning raids on neighboring settlements. Even the best case scenario paints you as a group who has taken a bribe from a struggling city to not raid and pillage them.

Ivor left a few details out of the contract. We've also declared that we won't raid any settlement that does business with Goldenfields (basically any city over a thousand people anywhere in the Sword Coast) and we are paying a fair percentage of our taxed income to them in exchange for all the food. But yes, it's slightly coercive.

Be aware of those decisions and try to work them into character development. Maybe farther down the line Krangjag will see that trying to build a goblin tribe around a false god and pillaging is exactly the same thing all those bugbears he hates would do, and exactly the sort of thing those "racist" elves and humans expect from him.

Maybe he will!