Zinc Saucier XXVI: Back to Basics

[dysprosium]

Welcome one and all to the twenty sixth Zinc Saucier challenge, where Playgrounders come to test their skill in the art of beautiful and bizarre (and bizarrely beautiful) builds, summoning a savory dish of superb swordplay and sublime sorcery.

The challenge? To come up with a build that has the same abilities and feel as the Secret Ingredient WITHOUT actually using it!

For the twenty sixth challenge, we are going back to basics; from the Player's Handbook it's the Fighter

Our challengers will have about 2 weeks to build a complete build up to Effective Character Level 20 using a 32 point buy and all official WOTC D&D 3.5 materials (excluding Dragon Magazine, but including any WOTC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of a Fighter without actually using any levels in it.

Entries must be submitted by Monday, 11:59pm GMT, 21 July, 2014. As usual, please submit your entries via private message to the chairman, so as not to influence the other sauciers.

Judges will then have until Monday, 11:59pm GMT, 4 August, 2014, to post scores for all dishes.

Contestants will be judged and awarded a score out of 5 in each of 4 categories;

* Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc)
* Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)
* Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavour for power or using flaws)
* Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)

Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.

Recommended style:

Spoiler

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NAME OF ENTRY

Level	Class	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Skills	Feats	Class Features
1st	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
2nd	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
3rd	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
4th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
5th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
6th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
7th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
8th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
9th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
10th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
11th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
12th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
13th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
14th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
15th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
16th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
17th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
18th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
19th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
20th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities

Code immediately below (spoiler).

Spoiler

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[table="width: 1000, class: grid, align: center"]
[tr]
[td][B]Level[/B][/td]
[td][B]Class[/B][/td]
[td][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/td]
[td][B]Fort Save[/B][/td]
[td][B]Ref Save[/B][/td]
[td][B]Will Save[/B][/td]
[td][B]Skills[/B][/td]
[td][B]Feats[/B][/td]
[td][B]Class Features[/B][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)

Spoiler

Show

Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level	0lvl	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th	8th	9th
1st	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
2nd	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
3rd	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
4th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
5th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
6th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
7th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
8th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
9th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
10th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
11th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
12th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
13th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
14th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
15th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
16th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
17th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
18th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
19th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
20th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

Code immediately below (spoiler)

Spoiler

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[B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
[table="width: 500, class: grid, align: center"]
[tr]
[td][B]Level[/B][/td]
[td][B]0lvl[/B][/td]
[td][B]1st[/B][/td]
[td][B]2nd[/B][/td]
[td][B]3rd[/B][/td]
[td][B]4th[/B][/td]
[td][B]5th[/B][/td]
[td][B]6th[/B][/td]
[td][B]7th[/B][/td]
[td][B]8th[/B][/td]
[td][B]9th[/B][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Please do not post details of your build on the board before it is ready, so as not to spoil the surprise for others.

Sauciers may submit as many builds as they want but please don't use Leadership, as we don't want to overfeed the judges.

Previous challenges;

1. Soulknife
2. Bard
3. Monk
4. Assassin
5. Barbarian
6. Warlock
7. Paladin *
8. Warblade
9. Pyrokineticist
10. Ninja *
11. Druid
12. True Necromancer
13. Dervish
14. Whisperknife
15. Epic Infiltrator *
16. Master of Vipers
17. Ranger *
18. Flayerspawn Psychic
19. Totemist
20. Walker in the Waste
21. Drunken Master
22. Cleric
23. Duskblade
24. Psibond Agent
25. Argent Fist

* Classes marked with an asterisk have had their original posts updated to reflect the final results.

This competition is inspired by the Playground Iron Chef Competitions and uses mostly identical rules.

Also it comes with double prize money. Why? Because we care!

Allez Sauciers!

[dysprosium]

A few administrative notes:

Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt and generic classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, may lose you points. Please note the following: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not.

Concerning Experience Requirements: Each build is allotted exactly 200,000 EXP. This is roughly 10,000 EXP more than necessary to get to 20th level. Please take note of this when planning your character for circumstances like LA Buyoff, Item Crafting, Magic Use, Multiclassing EXP Penalties, etc. Please note that this is a change from past rounds that dysprosium has been the Chairman. Let's try this out (Thank you to Kazudo, who I lifted this from )

Definition of Power for scoring: Since this has been a point of contention, let me lay down this guideline. Since the goal is to emulate the Secret Ingredient, achieving much higher power than the Secret Ingredient is capable of is overkill and should be marked accordingly. Likewise if the build cannot match the power of the Secret Ingredient it should be marked accordingly. Individual judges can decide how much is too much for Power scoring, as each judge will have different tastes. The goal here is to prevent all entries being Wizard 20 because "they do it better."

What's the minimum score in a category? Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is illegal by the RAW, the judge may give a 0 or decline to score a given entry. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

Is Dragon Compendium Allowed? Yes, but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

What about 3.0 materials? 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources? The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

What about online sources in general? If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Variant class features and variant character classes are espressly permitted. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines are ripe for abuse, and will be discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean? As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while I am chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

How the heck do I even do this? Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to select a combination of race, templates, classes, alternate class features, prestige classes, skills, and feats, meld them into a single character that progresses from ECL 1 to ECL 20, that is as close as possible to the secret ingredient as possible in look, feel, class features. How you do it is up to you, I recommend you read previous competitions if you are interested in seeing how others have done it before you. Capture the essence!

A thread for your amusement/edification: Handy Tips for the Iron Chef in the Playground Noob

[Muggins]

The thread title was a dead giveaway. We knew this day would come.

[Sian]

going to be interesting this one, looking devilishly simple but aren't ... going to thinker with it when i finish polishing off some of my other builds in the pipeline (which is clugging)

[Humble Master]

So simple it is difficult! Going to be hard to emulate a class that doesn't have any class feature and just gets a buttload of feats. I want to compete, but if I can't come up with anything I'll judge. Just need to figure out my judging rubric for this one. It is very different.

[relytdan]

interesting choice.

[WhamBamSam]

So, are we emulating the out of the box Fighter, or should we be trying to model Dungeon Crasher and Zhentarhim Soldier too?

[Ikeren]

I'll judge, and this time give full power scores for builds that are only slightly stronger than a best optimized fighter 20 (IE: low t3/high tier 4). Otherwise the rubric remains the same, and I'll copy-pasta it over when I get the chance.

You don't have to mimick a Dungeon Crasher Zhentarim Fighter, but mimicking fighter-only variants is probably worth bonus points.

[dysprosium]

So, are we emulating the out of the box Fighter, or should we be trying to model Dungeon Crasher and Zhentarhim Soldier too?

Originally I was thinking the out of the box Fighter (mostly because I had forgotten about the alternate class features). I would imagine that Sauciers could attempt to emulate either of those styles also. I would just make a note of that in my entry.

going to be interesting this one, looking devilishly simple but aren't

So simple it is difficult! Going to be hard to emulate a class that doesn't have any class feature and just gets a buttload of feats.

This is why I chose the Fighter. I figured with all of the "Fighter fixes" around this would be an interesting choice to run with. I can't wait to see what the Playground can deliver.

[Humble Master]

Originally I was thinking the out of the box Fighter (mostly because I had forgotten about the alternate class features). I would imagine that Sauciers could attempt to emulate either of those styles also. I would just make a note of that in my entry.

Might be hard on the judges if they need to judge entries each trying to emulate a different fighter ACF.

Speaking of which, how should we score Ingredient? Like, just counting the number of bonus feats their build gets seems like a bad rubric. Does the build need to emulate all the various Fighter builds around there? (Zhentarhim Soldier, Dungeon Crasher, Ubercharger, Chain Tripper ect.) or does it just need to get the feel of the Fighter? What even is the "feel" of a class so undefined it's only class feature is access to hundreds of (cruddy) bonus feats? I bring this up mainly because it's an interesting judging question and I would like to hear everyone's thoughts.

[Muggins]

In a world with dragons and wizards, fighters are the common men. Not the sneaky, tricksy common men who call themselves rogues, but the soldiers and warriors. They are mundane, lacking magic or tricks or any true talent beyond the use of armour, shield and weapon. That is what I call a fighter.

Naturally, others can disagree. True, the reason we have multiple judges is because of such disagreement. There's nothing wrong with that.

On a less idyllic note, I'm clearly not the only one wondering about alternative class features and the like.

[dysprosium]

You bring up a good point.

I imagine that everyone has a different image in their heads when someone says "Fighter." I would build upon that image and go from there. For me I am drawn to my first D&D character I ever had. He was a Fighter and it was first edition.

If I were going to judge [which by the way would only happen if no one else had before time ran out], I would look at not only how many bonus Fighter feats the build has but how many Fighter only feats (or equivalents) it had. I would also take into account the final BAB and final Fort save for the build. I could also look at the build's skill list and see how many Fighter skills it had. I would also probably judge what its specific role would be in combat and what options it had. I might also compare the build to my head canon I mentioned above.

It really is a wide open concept.

[Humble Master]

Judging criteria for the contest if I don't get around to finishing my build (which is likely).

Spoiler: Judging Criteria

Show

Innovation: This is based on what I would expect to see based on the SI (In the Argent Fist round for instance I expected Swordsage, Crusader, Pious Templar ect.) and what the other contestants put forth. You also get points in this if you find some cool way to combine abilities (Like Wild Shaping into a monster that's a cloud of super-heated death gas and using Control Wind to blow yourself around at 300 MPH for flight).

Power: I judge this as power in relation to the SI. Basically, how powerful is you character compared to one that took 10 levels of the SI. If your character exceeds the power of the SI you'll get a higher score. A low score would be given to a character that is weaker than the SI. Power is also not limited to combat. An out of combat character that does really well at out of combat tasks is still powerful. For this competition I will be comparing your build to a Fighter 20

Elegence: Things that will get you a hit to Elegence are dips, flaws, anything that requires you spend GP to get it (Be it a service or magical items. The exception to the magic item rule is if your character can make the magical item themselves.), high levels of cheese or questionable rules interpretation, build errors and the open category of the build not "flowing" (basically a catch all term because Elegance is perhaps the category most open to interpretation). Finally, you will be penalized or rewarded based on how well the various class/feat choices work together in terms of flavor.

Ingredient: This score is based on two things. First, how many abilities of the SI you emulated. The emulations need not be perfect but they should achieve the same effect. The following abilities will be looked for:
Hit Dice, BaB, Saves, Skills: D10, full, 12 Fort, 2+Int per level by 20th level. You should probably aim for fewer skill points as the lack of skills is one of the big features (read, flaws) in the design of the Fighter.
Fighter Feats: Basically, try to get feats that suite the Fighter's style of play (whacking stuff). Power Attack, Improved Trip, Shock Trooper ect.
"I hit it, but like, really hard": The only "class feature" of the Fighter is getting a ton of feats. Due to there being hundreds of Fighter feats it would be impossible to judge someone and emulating even a fraction of those. Instead, I will be judging how well your build emulates the way in which the Fighter class operates. I apologize for the ambiguity of this section but it is difficult to judge a competition about a class with no real class features.
Second, how well you capture the feel of the SI. Aim for similar fluff as well as crunch.

[Ikeren]

Actually, due to some employment changes I'll just be watching this round. Sorry, and good luck.

[dysprosium]

No worries . I hope it was a change for the better Ikeren.

[relytdan]

not much activity

[DeAnno]

I might judge this. If I do, these are my provisional criteria:

Spoiler

Show

Innovation: Based on scouting relatively more untamed optimization territory. This category is based more on how you achieve things than what you achieve; using very conventional elements like Shock Trooper Power Attack, Pouncebarian, or Thicket of Blades won't help you here. Unexpected races and classes are good, and new combos are very good. Good fluff gives bonuses here.

Power: How good are you at doing things a Fighter would be expected to do? You get credit for high damage totals, lockdowns, "defender" tricks, etc. You also get credit for the build dealing with things a Fighter would normally need items to deal with to do his job properly (Vision, Mobility, Defenses, that style of thing.) Because Fighter is a very in combat class, you won't get much credit for out of combat utility.

Builds will be judged in this category somewhat relative to the power of their individual building blocks. I will be more lenient to a mashup of T4 and T5 classes than to a Cleric/Crusader into RKV. Do not take this as a license to build a lousy build out of pure junk and expect it to score well though; if your building blocks are objectively worse than Fighter 20, you will instead be judged against the power of Fighter 20.

Elegance: Heavy cheddar is penalized in proportion to severity; using a Chaos Shuffle to obtain feats from Racial Weapon proficiencies would result in a penalty similar to that number of Flaws, for example. Flaws are -1, MC penalties are -0.1 per level sustained. 1 or 2 level dips in Base or Prestige classes are -0.5 each. Magical or unusual items *required* are penalized based on how common they are. Simple things found in the SRD are -0.5, most things elsewhere are -1, and customs are -2. Any abusive customs or otherwise broken items (ala Starmantle Cloak) may count as heavy cheddar instead and net more significant penalties as appropriate. Questionable rules interpretations will net penalties proportionate to their questionableness. Especially clean or attractive builds may net bonuses.

All numbers above may change if they end up being really unfeasible, but they should give you an idea of my opinions on things.

Use of Secret Ingredient: Large *Hit Points* (so a combination of HD and Con modifier), High BAB, and High Fort saves are good here. Also, lots of combat oriented Feats or combat oriented feat-like-abilities also will help. A big thing about Fighters is they can keep going all day, so abilities with limited numbers of uses here count for less and may even net penalties if they are critical for the build to function. Abilities with many Daily uses or encounter uses will be judged less harshly, but what we want is truly unlimited abilities. Other ways to keep on going without having to take rests (the anti-5-minute-workday) will help here. As an example, being Undead is helpful for not having to sleep, but hurtful because no con mod is pretty lousy hp for a fighter.

I encourage commentary on this rubric.

[Curmudgeon]

A few administrative notes:
...
Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

I might judge this. If I do, these are my provisional criteria:
...
Elegance: Heavy cheddar hurts a ton here; things analogous to Loredrakes and Chaos Shuffles basically get you an automatic 1, and may even penalize other scores due to borderline legality.
...
I encourage commentary on this rubric.

Because a sane level of cheese is explicitly allowed, treating RAW-legal options as meriting a minimum score would seem to be at odds with the competition rules. If something's only "legal" if you look at the rules sideways and squint, your approach seems fine. You might want to make a distinction.

[DeAnno]

What would your opinion be of a Chaos Shuffling Loredrake? (not necessarily in the context of Fighter, but in general) Would an Elf Chaos Shuffling his proficiencies into two feats merit a 2 point deduction, similar to 2 flaws? Would you penalize use of the Loredrake template in a competition like this? A Starmantle Cloak with Evasion?

It is indeed a difficult and thorny question. Mainly, I feel it isn't fair to people being... for lack of a better word, reasonable, to leave things like that unpenalized. I personally feel that that level of game warping merits a much higher deduction than something like a 2 level dip in a Favored class, and there is only so much room on the scale to represent that.

I think game legal cheese should be treated in a just manner, but I am unsure of how to do so. I do think that penalties for it should be in the elegance category, though at a certain point if you call on Pauzuzu to become Pun-Pun your build is probably not very valid in general.

EDIT: Changed some of the language in Elegance to be less punitive for now.

[relytdan]

chairman- can you confirm my last couple Pm's please

[Humble Master]

The way I interprit the rule is that sane levels of cheese are allowed (won't effectively disqualify your build) but could still result in an Elegance penalty. What a sane level of cheese is probably varies judge to judge but I would that a build shouldn't be disqualified for anything but really ridiculous stuff (Tauric template abuse, creating a genesis plane that has Flowing Time 10,000,000 is also Timeless, pretty much anything that involves Ice Assassin, Omnificer Trick ect.) though it could still merit a penalty. Using Chaos shuffling to get two feats out of being an Elf won't get your build taken out of the competition but it will merit an Elegance penalty.

[AvatarVecna]

Greetings all! I first saw this thread last challenge and wasn't feeling up to the task. But now I want in, but I need to ask a few questions.

Firstly, from what I understand, Iron Chef allows two builds per competitor. Is this the same here, or is it only one?

Secondly, I assume that, for questions more specific to my build, I can PM the chairman for clarification?

[relytdan]

@AvatarVecna
Yes I believe it is 2 submitions like at IC, and Yes for specific questions you can PM the chairman

[AvatarVecna]

@AvatarVecna
Yes I believe it is 2 submitions like at IC, and Yes for specific questions you can PM the chairman

Thanks for the info!

[dysprosium]

It's good to be back!

I apologize for my extended absence. My family and I had to move sooner than expected and let me tell you that moving is a pain in the you know what.

I will get back to those that PMed me as soon as I get myself caught up.

[dysprosium]

Hello Sauciers!

I have three entries for this round. Still plenty of time to join them!

[relytdan]

well here's hoping for more than 3 entries

[AvatarVecna]

I've got a full build ready and formatted, just need to complete the other sections; since this is supposed to be anonymous, I'll avoid explaining exactly what that includes, so as not to show my hand. Let it suffice to say that it'll be close, but I should be able to finish by the deadline.

[Sian]

Not going to submit for this, since i just can't figure the best way to make the build even if i've figured out the level20 result both from a level and feat standpoint ... going to post the stub when its been revealed.

[Cowardly Griffo]

Just over 8 hours left, eh?

*cracks knuckles*

I think I can work with that.

Edit: Turns out I was wrong. ._.;
Oh well, maybe I'll get to it earlier next time.