Erfworld 155 -- tBfGK 142

[dr pepper]

I think it's interesting that the Hippies are paying homage to the origin of their name and using violence (thus being hypocrits) in their pursuit of peace.

"Hippie" does not come from "hypocrite", it comes from "hip".

[vrellum]

"Hippie" does not come from "hypocrite", it comes from "hip".

Yeah, the post is wrong enough that I should probably delete it. I think I'll go mark through it.

[hobgoblen924]

I found this the most disturbing page so far.

Parson wakes up. He's surrounded by a bunch of mancers that probably want to kill him. Maggie is there. She says it's time to go. He leaves with a backwards glance to see the utmost loathing the mancers have for him.

Think about the effort it takes to be pissed off for that long. Parson was asleep for the whole night, he wasn't trying to upset anyone but still the hate bubbles to he surface, or is that fear? Plus, he doesn't even know how he managed to enter the portal in the first place. How did they even know for sure he was a warlord when he has no visible stats anyway?

He enters the portal and is transported to a wasteland. Everyone is dead. Everyone. This is all the result of his handy work. Keep in mind that Parson hasn't had more then 10 minutes to go over all of this. Since he's been unconscious all this time it's like he just left. How can he not be affected by the agnitude of what he did?

He sees Sizemore, who is oddly chipper. Parson can't understand why this would be so. He has to be repressing. No way he could be over it, the butchering he did, already. He finds out that they suddenly have enough money to rebuild. Just minutes ago he was inches away from death and now it's rebuilding. Maye to something stronger than before.

Then, in the distance, Wanda, who I find the most frightening of all the characters, lets out an evil laugh as she attunes to the pliers.

None of the other pages have been so usettling to me.

The thing I find most interesting is the fact that they do not seem to have reverted to barbarian status. Sizemore clearly said that "our side" was rich now. I don't get that.

The city was totalled right? PClips? Why haven't they reverted to barbarian status? Also, how did the uncroaked survive anyway? They are even more quishy then the regular troops.

they haven't converted to barbarians cause stanley is still alive. and since they fight for stanley they are still on his side

[DevilDan]

Close, but not quite. The troops dying put the Coalition in a bad state: there were no longer any units in the Alliance. In order for the alliance to continue, they would all need to devote more troops.

Too many unknowables to make that statement. Presumably different kingdoms committed different levels of troops depending on their proximity, their relative sizes and resource bases, their number of cities, and their belief in the cause. Certainly Transylvito had not committed all its units to the RCC's main force: they had quite a few warlords to spare. And certainly it's not unreasonable to assume that most other sides had not committed their chief warlords and certainly did not leave their various cities undefended.

What you want at this point is a small hunter-killer force to track him down and finish him off, and that doesn't require assistance from other nations. They should each be able to do that alone.

Not if the newly sane Jack is in any way reliable.

they haven't converted to barbarians cause stanley is still alive. and since they fight for stanley they are still on his side

Stanley himself would become a barbarian with the loss of GK, so they'd be barbarians even if under Stanley.

[Kreistor]

Too many unknowables [snip] and certainly did not leave their various cities undefended.

COnfused here. You don't seem to make any comments directly about my point. I'd love to respond, but you're not making any logical progression, just... I dunno. Are you trying to say that an Alliance can have 0 troops? I'm just confused about which particular part of my statement you think isn't true.

Not if the newly sane Jack is in any way reliable.

They all think like Vinnie. Stanley will go barbarian, without financial support lose Jack, etc. An army won't see through a veil anyway: you want commanders for that.

Stanley himself would become a barbarian with the loss of GK, so they'd be barbarians even if under Stanley.

And yet, he didn't. Which implies that there is still a city under Stanley out there somewhere supporting the Side.

[DevilDan]

COnfused here. You don't seem to make any comments directly about my point. I'd love to respond, but you're not making any logical progression, just... I dunno. Are you trying to say that an Alliance can have 0 troops? I'm just confused about which particular part of my statement you think isn't true.

I wonder if the Alliance left any troops in the cities conquered from Stanley. Not that it's significant, but there could be units further afield scouting or patrolling.

And yet, he didn't. Which implies that there is still a city under Stanley out there somewhere supporting the Side.

I agree. I'm suggesting that even if GK had been eliminated as a city they might still be under Stanley's control (hence my use of "would become" rather than "became.")

[Thydron]

And yet, he didn't. Which implies that there is still a city under Stanley out there somewhere supporting the Side.

why? the plaid tribe never lost control of GK - they had troops in it through the whole comic up to and including this page?
and even if they hadn't, it probable that they would remain in control until someone else actively claimed the site with some uncontested troops, which hasn't happened.

[Kilkrazy]

Warlord Manpower the Temporary had 'Earth' type eyes. Unless he came from FAQ, it is not only FAQ units who have that types of eyes.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0002.html

[Welf]

According to Occams razor this means Manpower came from Faq, too. And when I say "Occams razor" I mean I hammer every fact into the metaphorical puzzle until it fits my picture.

[Faulty]

I hope Wanda doesn't become a villian, I always liked her. It could be just a moment of... er... excitement.

[Oslecamo]

And yet, he didn't. Which implies that there is still a city under Stanley out there somewhere supporting the Side.

Wich is Gobwin Knob. It's charred, troopless, mostly a pile of rubble, but still a city.

Wanda made it clear in the first comic that they only had GK left. And Stanley was returning to it after being ambushed by Vinnie. Sizemore on the other hand comented that GK was a lv1 city after making it colapse.

This sugests that a city in Efworld can never be truly destroyed, only reduced back to lv1. And since Hamster's forces were still standing on it, Gk is still on Hamster's side.

Plus with the newfound gems, it seems rebuilding the army will be piece of cake! Stanley's gamble definetely paid off! A couple days to consolidate and he'll probably be the strongest guy in Efworld, specially with 3 super-leveled up mancers to back him up.


Amesoeurs:For all we know Wanda has always been a villain. Fanatic necromancer mind raping dominatrix that rejoices on the suffering of others and treats them like objects doesn't leave much room for good intentions.

Wich makes me notice....WANDA LAUGHED! Wanda doesn't laugh! Be afraid, Efworld, very afraid...

[joosy]

Warlord Manpower the Temporary had 'Earth' type eyes. Unless he came from FAQ, it is not only FAQ units who have that types of eyes.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0002.html

Good catch! It either a drawing error (it was at the very beginning of the strip) OR we have identified another FAQ survivor/defector.

[teratorn]

Good catch! It either a drawing error (it was at the very beginning of the strip) OR we have identified another FAQ survivor/defector.

Sigh... OR the Artist feels that some characters need detailed eyes and others don't.

[Gez]

It's the story of that Englishman who arrives at Calais and sees two women, both redheads. He concludes that all French women are red-haired, and from that point forward, every time he sees a redhead he'll assume she's French.

The sheer absurdity of that story is the same as the "Faq eye" conspiracy theory.

Assuming the eyes are not simply a stylistic effect from the artist, if only the people coming from one tiny hidden kingdom had eyes like this, wouldn't those be noticed? Wouldn't some people in the RCC have commented on Jillian's freaky eyes?

[Suicide Junkie]

So, based on that eye theory, Manpower was hired from FAQ when Stanley was running out of warlords. And thus FAQ is actually still intact. Jills went barbarian, but the side survived and rebuilt and she never went back to check.
So, Stanley wasn't going to FAQ to claim the ruins, but to call in some favors from Banhammer. And if TV does find FAQ, they'll be whomped by a force that has finally finished the army tutorial.
:)

[Iain]

I don't know whether anyone else has already said this, as the forums are too slow to read through just now, but whilst we know Wanda was a caster at FAQ, I don't think we know that she was originally from there. She might even have been the ruler of another side before that (destroyed by Ansom, perhaps?) That being the case, she could even still be capable of setting up a new side, just having chosen to work with other sides in the meantime for her own reasons.
Or, maybe not. I guess we'll see.

[kunsttyv]

Ok. Let me crack down on some wild theories. (and perhaps make some new...)

Wanda is currently on the same side as the Tool. If she wasn't, the single dragon she rode to uncroak Manpower would have autoattacked her. (It would not have been lead, and in proximity to a foreign unit) There are more incidents that would be severely inconsistent if she was not on the Tools side.

The RCC was dissolved, and is no more. Caesar Borgata says that Jetstone has confirmed this.

Regarding the Arkenpliers: Ansom stated that "they turn most uncroaked to dust", not all. (my emphasis)

If the cast page was to be trusted, Wanda is from the (now lost) tribe Croat(an?), and not Faq. She obviously also was in Faq. She dodged questions about her origin. (there goes the eye-theory)

Sizemore and Maggie are never described as master class. (but they are obviously proficient)

Finally, a loose thread: From the contract between Ansom and Charlie, Charlie promised to lend military support for at least two turns. He has probably failed this, which might cause him to forfeit any payment.

[Glome]

If the cast page was to be trusted, Wanda is from the (now lost) tribe Croat(an?), and not Faq. She obviously also was in Faq. She dodged questions about her origin. (there goes the eye-theory)

Croatan is the name of tribe whose capital is Faq, just like the Stanley controls Gobwin Knob but his tribe is the Plaid. In fact, if they weren't trying to be secretive about Jillian's origin, her cast page would say she came from Croatan as well.

Besides which, nobody claimed that having an iris is an exclusive trait to Croatans (we don't have enough to make that claim), only that it is a trait that all Croatans share, and for which most other units don't. For all we know, there may be other sides that also pop units with irises, we just haven't seen them yet.

[SteveMB]

If the cast page was to be trusted, Wanda is from the (now lost) tribe Croat(an?), and not Faq. She obviously also was in Faq. She dodged questions about her origin.

The tribe name of the inhabitants and the place name don't necessarily have anything to do with each other (e.g. "Plaid"/"Gobwin Knob").

[DevilDan]

I hope Wanda doesn't become a villian, I always liked her. It could be just a moment of... er... excitement.

She's not a villain. She's just on the side of the megalomaniacal, allegedly genocidal warlord and enjoys uncroaking the dead and torturing prisoners.

Good catch! It either a drawing error (it was at the very beginning of the strip) OR we have identified another FAQ survivor/defector.

That would make Faq (note the canon capitalization) the only side that seems to have physiologically different human units. (I count neither the Transylvitonians, of course. And the Elfbrands are right out.)

I don't know whether anyone else has already said this, as the forums are too slow to read through just now, but whilst we know Wanda was a caster at FAQ, I don't think we know that she was originally from there. She might even have been the ruler of another side before that (destroyed by Ansom, perhaps?)

It's been discussed. Is there any real reason that a side or city or kingdom cannot be composed of multiple tribes? After all, both Stanley and Sizemore are members of the Plaid tribe.

Wanda is currently on the same side as the Tool. If she wasn't, the single dragon she rode to uncroak Manpower would have autoattacked her. (It would not have been lead, and in proximity to a foreign unit) There are more incidents that would be severely inconsistent if she was not on the Tools side.

The RCC had commanders from different kingdoms and barbarians as commanders.

Regarding the Arkenpliers: Ansom stated that "they turn most uncroaked to dust", not all. (my emphasis)

I always assumed that this meant that some uncroaked were more powerful or of a higher level, so they could survive a single hit.

[BillyJimBoBob]

Assuming the eyes are not simply a stylistic effect from the artist, if only the people coming from one tiny hidden kingdom had eyes like this, wouldn't those be noticed? Wouldn't some people in the RCC have commented on Jillian's freaky eyes?

No, not when there are sides which have very distinct appearances. Have we seen anyone startled at the "freaky" appearance of Vinny? Nope. The same can apply to the former FAQ residents, and any other side as well. We know that royals occasionally split off to form new sides, so there's the explanation for why the RCC had many similar appearing sides, but the simple fact of TV shows that physical diversity or distinct physical traits characterizing a side is neither impossible nor remarkable to Erfers.

Sizemore and Maggie are never described as master class. (but they are obviously proficient)

I think Sizemore is master class, but I'm not willing to fish around the slow boards for a reference. Maggy has not been called master class.

Finally, a loose thread: From the contract between Ansom and Charlie, Charlie promised to lend military support for at least two turns. He has probably failed this, which might cause him to forfeit any payment.

Oooh, nice catch! I hate that guy, any pain for him is a pleasure for me. I wonder if this will ever be touched upon in future strips?

[Forgotten2]

Guys, things may not be as bad a you think.

If I recall correctly, Stanley found the Hammer but could not take over the side, until he was designated the heir. Unless Wanda has been promoted to Heir Desingnate.

Also, Wanda is not being held against her will. I think she actually cares about Stanley.

[greywords]

So, based on that eye theory, Manpower was hired from FAQ when Stanley was running out of warlords. And thus FAQ is actually still intact.

Another possible explanation is simply that Manpower was one of the few citizens of Faq who defected/were drafted into Stanley's service after it fell.

[SteveD]

Well Parson is in a good position now. When Stanley and the foolmancer comes back they can keep the scouts of curious nations away while they rebuild the city and its defences (with all-new lava moat!), and recruit a new army with the riches they've acquired. Who knows what power they might accumulate within a few turns, but I suspect this chapter will have come to an end by that point.

Jillian is the loose end. If she can escape Caesar and get back to Gobwin Knob within a turn for vengeance she'd see straight through any veil. But would she launch a suicidal attack? In her grief, maybe.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Oooh, nice catch! I hate that guy (Charlie), any pain for him is a pleasure for me. I wonder if this will ever be touched upon in future strips?

Thoroughly seconded. Die Charlie Die!

[Kreistor]

I wonder if the Alliance left any troops in the cities conquered from Stanley. Not that it's significant, but there could be units further afield scouting or patrolling.

I can't imagine those cities haven't been divied up. Somehow, I don't think a city can be "owned" by a coalition: it would need to be owned by a single side with a single ruler, or left unowned and uncontrolled. That would make the troops there non-coalition and Sided. It's just a guess, but I think it makes the most sense. It's a rules simplification for gaming purposes.

I agree. I'm suggesting that even if GK had been eliminated as a city they might still be under Stanley's control (hence my use of "would become" rather than "became.")

Under his control, yes, but still barbarian with no cities. There have been no comments about being barbarian yet, and I doubt Parson wouldn't say something like, "So I guess the spell lets me be a barbarian, at least," or "So this is what being a barbbarian feels like." No, I'm leaning towards them still having a side. This is further evidence that Stanley has a hidden city, and that would consistent with Stanley rebuilding or never destroying Faq. It's still a bubble nation, unknown by all, and would fit the situation perfectly.

Wich is Gobwin Knob. It's charred, troopless, mostly a pile of rubble, but still a city.

Possible, but it was populated by non-living entities. Even a village needs a population of 1.

[Oslecamo]

This is further evidence that Stanley has a hidden city, and that would consistent with Stanley rebuilding or never destroying Faq. It's still a bubble nation, unknown by all, and would fit the situation perfectly.

Except that Wanda didn't know about it, and that would be impossible. She was Stanley's right hand, and The Tool isn't some super master mind wich keeps big secrets from his more trusted lackeys, like hiding an extra city wich could have helped defend the capital. Stanley's definetely not the kind of character to make deep complex long term plans like hiding a city for dozens of turns, specially when he believed he was blessed by the titans and everything would be allright.

Possible, but it was populated by non-living entities. Even a village needs a population of 1.

Hey, it's a fantasy game. Who said you can't have a city of uncroackeds or golems?

Tranyvilto is a nation of vampires, wich technically are also non-living guys. They don't seem to have any problem with controling cities that way however.

They even decay instead of being croacked, as they state in their dance-fight.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0123.html

Rock golems also showed to have a personality of their own as we saw with the comedian-rock golem and the golem squad wich crushed the marbits. Sure they're not the brightest guys to have a sophisticated dicussion with, but they still count as capturing units for controling cities.

[HandofShadows]

Possible, but it was populated by non-living entities. Even a village needs a population of 1.

Actually you need a unit to hold a city. There are no civilains in this game to be a population. It's all about the units. And the uncroked and golems are units, just not living ones.

[DevilDan]

I can't imagine those cities haven't been divied up. Somehow, I don't think a city can be "owned" by a coalition: it would need to be owned by a single side with a single ruler, or left unowned and uncontrolled. That would make the troops there non-coalition and Sided. It's just a guess, but I think it makes the most sense. It's a rules simplification for gaming purposes.

Yes, I suppose they could have already been divvied up. But whether the RCC can claim a city is an unknown. Wouldn't Ansom have at least nominally taken GK in the name of the RCC or would he take it necessarily under Jetsone? That hardly seems politically expedient. If the RCC is a "side," I assume it can also "take" a city.

Even before finding out that some GK units survived—inasmuch as neither golems nor uncroaked are alive in the traditional sense—I assumed that GK could still be taken over easily by Parson and company (under Stanley).

I guess money isn't an issue for them at the moment, but I wonder if the treasury survived as such...

I still don't know if the action in this strip is occurring at dawn or dusk.

[fendrin]

Yes, I suppose they could have already been divvied up. But whether the RCC can claim a city is an unknown. Wouldn't Ansom have at least nominally taken GK in the name of the RCC or would he take it necessarily under Jetsone? That hardly seems politically expedient. If the RCC is a "side," I assume it can also "take" a city.

Even before finding out that some GK units survived—inasmuch as neither golems nor uncroaked are alive in the traditional sense—I assumed that GK could still be taken over easily by Parson and company (under Stanley).

I guess money isn't an issue for them at the moment, but I wonder if the treasury survived as such...

A coalition is not a side, it is an alliance of sides. Allied sides share the same turn. I am starting to think that warlords can lead troops of allied sides (it would remove the necessity of massive numbers of warlords in a coalition, it would allow troops from multiple sides to stack together, etc).

It seems to me that for the sake of game mechanics style simplicity, one side of the coalition would have to claim the city (or I suppose it could be left unclaimed, but why?).

Arguably income from the city could be split amongst multiple sides, but how would unit production be determined? What side would the popped units be loyal to? What happens if one side defects from the coalition? Too many questions. Game mechanics tend to simplify such things.

Which side of a coalition would claim the city would probably be a political issue.