Results 1 to 30 of 33
-
2013-01-17, 04:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
[3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
What options are there for learning a spell of a different class list?
I know of Wyrm Wizards Spell Research ability for arcane casters and the Divine Magician ACF for clerics. Are there any others?
-
2013-01-17, 04:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Central Kentucky
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
Be an Archivist!
-
2013-01-17, 04:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- The Land of Angles
-
2013-01-17, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
To clarify, i'm not looking for a class that can learn any spell.
What im interested in are things like giving Guidance of the Avatar to a Rogue/Wiz/Unseen Seer or Body outside Body to a Wildshaping Druid.
-
2013-01-17, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
- Location
- Kitchener/Waterloo
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
Unseen Seer can grab Divinations from off their spell list, since you brought it up.
Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
Meet My Monstrous Guide to Monsters. Everything you absolutely need to know about Monsters and never thought you needed to ask.
Trophy!
-
2013-01-17, 05:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Location
- Floating in the void
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
There are some classes with advanced learning class features...
There's the Extra Spell feat. Debatable if you can get spells off another list (seems to suggest that you can, though).
There's also the drakehelm, an Eberron item. Gives four extra spells known up to fourth level.Avatar of Furude Setsuna, by Telasi.Originally Posted by Akagi
-
2013-01-17, 05:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Sunnydale
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
How would you "suggest" that would work? That is, what's the rule to let you determine the Bard level of a spell like Control Water? For a Wizard or Sorcerer that's a level 6 spell. For a Druid or Cleric that's a level 4 spell. Where's the rule which specifies the Bard level of some spell which isn't on the Bard spell list?
Originally Posted by Extra Spell
-
2013-01-17, 05:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Location
- Floating in the void
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
Avatar of Furude Setsuna, by Telasi.Originally Posted by Akagi
-
2013-01-17, 06:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Sunnydale
-
2013-01-17, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Location
- Floating in the void
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
Avatar of Furude Setsuna, by Telasi.Originally Posted by Akagi
-
2013-01-17, 06:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
Extra Spell was errata'd to only be from your class list, making it pretty much useless.
Recaster also gets 2 spells from any list. It's like Wyrm Wizard but you only lose one level and it's restricted to Changelings.
Rainbow Servant gets the entire Cleric list.
-
2013-01-17, 06:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Gender
-
2013-01-17, 06:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
-
2013-01-17, 06:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Location
- Yes
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
I always thought wizards could learn other spells through RP means, you were just limited when you leveled up and selected spells.
I think there's a spell that allows you extract spells from someone's blood.[PF] HP Calculator - Fractional HP, now without math!
[PF] Initiator NPC Templates - Quickly applied maneuvers for DMs.
[PF] Initiator Balance Rule - A lightweight fix to balance casting and martial classes.
-
2013-01-17, 06:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Sunnydale
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
Control Water is a 4th level Druid Spell and a 6th level Sorcerer spell, but that says nothing about its Bard level.
Originally Posted by Morcleon
-
2013-01-17, 06:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
-
2013-01-17, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
Yes that is how the various wizard rules for spell scribing are supposed to work. It should be self-evident due to the wording of that sentence that that's not how it works in practice at all.
And technically, any class can learn any spell, but requires DM approval after you have spent something like 1000 gold and week per spell level.
-
2013-01-17, 08:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
Why would anyone go through that before getting DM approval? Or are you talking about a particularly vindicative DM screwing with the players?
-
2013-01-17, 08:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
No, I'm talking about the actual spell research rules in the DMG. The player spends time and money to represent the cost of doing this kind of experimentation, and the DM decides if it actually works because 1.) this allows for the realistic approach as not all research is successful and 2.) relegating this to a check would be bad game design as players can make up all kinds of stupid spells.
In short, it's based on sensible story telling maxims that not everything the players do should just succeed because they are the players and that the DM should just give them things with no struggle. Which EVERYONE who ever comments on the rules misses as the point by several hundred billion light years, including you.
-
2013-01-17, 10:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
Because Expanded Knowledge explicitly allows this. Extra Spell does not.
Psionics are balanced around potentially any manifester (regardless of theme) being able to access any effect within their power level range. A psychic rogue can potentially summon, a kineticist can potentially heal, a psychic warrior can potentially shapeshift and an ardent can potentially blast. Magic was designed, if not to prevent the above outright, to at least require a few more hoops.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2013-01-17, 10:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- Nowhere around
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
Quick! Hide this debtate before Toapat finds it!
On a more serious note, as already mentioned, the Recaster PRC can grab 2 spells from any spell list and add it to their main spellcasting list. And it's a pretty awesome PRC overall.
-
2013-01-18, 04:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
You appear to be responding to the argument that Extra Spell allows access to other spell lists because it is similar to Expanded Knowledge, which does that. That's not my argument.
My post is meant to illustrate that Curmudgeon's argument is baseless because it is founded on an assumption which is simply not true: that all the details of cross-list materials would be made clear in the feat if cross-list spell learning were allowed. Expanded Knowledge provides an easy illustration that such an assumption shouldn't be the case: a Psychic Rogue could take Expanded Knowledge for Graft Weapon and be in exactly the situation Curmudgeon describes with Control Water, but that situation would not imply that Graft Weapon is an inappropriate selection for the feat.
-
2013-01-18, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
The problem is that Extra Spell does not override the RAW of the given class. For example, wizard was mentioned in this thread:
A wizard casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.
Compare to the Psion:
Choose the powers known from the psion power list, or from the list of powers of your chosen discipline. You cannot choose powers from restricted discipline lists other than your own discipline list. You can choose powers from disciplines other than your own if they are not on a restricted discipline list. (Exception: The feats Expanded Knowledge and Epic Expanded Knowledge do allow a psion to learn powers from the lists of other disciplines or even other classes.) A psion can manifest any power that has a power point cost equal to or lower than his manifester level.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2013-01-18, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- Torres Novas, PT
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
Depends on how you want to interpret wordings.
Spellcraft skill says that, if you're a Wizard, you can learn a spell from a spellbook or scroll.
In Arcane Magical Writings section, it's further mentioned that after you decipher a writing, "If the magical writing was a scroll and the reader can cast arcane spells, she can attempt to use the scroll." UMD is mentioned nowhere in this section, so your guess as to HOW is as good as mine (since this is under ARCANE MW section, one can assume it refers to Arcane scrolls only, but between nagas, sorcerer-casting dragons, and cooperative item crafting, that's not an impedimento to, well, anything worth mentioning, especially becauseeeeeee...
...sorcerers and bards can do this out of the box, as noted: "With permission, sorcerers and bards can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spells that they have gained some understanding of."
Long story short, it's all up for grabs, though perhaps the "nos" grab a few more than the "yesses."Morituri nolumus morit - We who are about to die... don't want to
"BUT, LORD, WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPERMAN." - Death, "Reaperman"
-
2013-01-18, 12:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
The key word in your quote is attempt - if the scroll's spell is not on your list+you don't use UMD, that attempt will automatically fail. I can attempt to climb Mount Everest, that doesn't mean I'll actually make it up there.
"With permission" for sorcs and bards may as well be homebrew. Of course it's all up for grabs if you allow that.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2013-01-18, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Location
- Everywhere at every time
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
There is Limited Wish which can duplicate any spell level 5th or lower, (Wish does 6th or lower, but is 9th as opposed to 7th so it's less effective in this usage).
78% of all DM's start their first campaign in a tavern. If you're among the 22% who didn't, copy and paste this into your signature and tell us where you DID begin.
I started in the keep of a baron who was hiring the characters as his personal lackeys. It allowed me to give them some simple beginner quests, such as go kill this group of bandits to save this town.
-
2013-01-18, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
Last edited by Story; 2013-01-18 at 12:29 PM.
-
2013-01-18, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Sunnydale
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
... except it wasn't. You're probably thinking of the FAQ, which most specifically isn't official errata. Those answers, like Customer Service responses, are just the personal opinions of some guys who were Wizards of the Coast employees at the time. In fact, the only part of the FAQ that's official is the selection of questions, chosen from many thousands of submissions to illustrate particular rules issues.
-
2013-01-18, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
Oh sorry, I thought it was in the errata, not the FAQ. Nevermind.
-
2013-01-18, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Ways to learn spells from a different class list
I would say that, using the method of research of new spells described in the DMG I think you could:
If you are a cleric, learn any druid spell at the same level.
If you are a druid, learn any cleric spell at the same level.
If you are a cleric, learn your domain spells as normal cleric spells with level +1 (for example, a 5th level domain spell can be learned as a 6th level cleric spell).
If you are a cleric, you can learn a wizard spell as a cleric spell with level +2 (I have taken Antimagic Field as inspiration).
If you are a wizard, you can learn a cleric or druid spell with level +2 (except cure spells or heal).
Of course, it's just my opinion, and not an official rule.Last edited by Clistenes; 2013-01-18 at 08:15 PM.