OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

[Resileaf]

On the subject of Hilgya believing she'd go to Valhalla, I am willing to believe that if she dies the way she said she might, she'll die honorably and won't be bound to Hel, but she doesn't realize that she's still not given a pass to Valhalla as she would go to her normal afterlife instead.

[Heksefatter]

I have absolutely loved the two last comics.

[Dion]

Plus, this is still Daddy Loki trying to instill a fundamental lesson(s) in his daughter dearest. One(s) that Hel's life might depend on in the long run

I do not believe Loki is trying to teach anyone anything. I believe he’s just a jerk.

[KorvinStarmast]

It's hard to be a hypocrite when your guiding philosophy is "Do whatever's best for you."

Would Loki be a hypocrite if he makes a series of altruistic and self sacrificing actions to help someone else?

Hilgya's decision to bail: seems to be perfectly in character.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Would Loki be a hypocrite if he makes a series of altruistic and self sacrificing actions to help someone else?

I'd say so, but that's also hard to do, thus why it's hard for him to be a hypocrite. He'd have to really want to be one, whilst being a self-serving jerk is usually the path of least resistance.

Grey Wolf

[understatement]

Dad Loki is solid gold.

I love the god banter!

[Kantaki]

Yeah, until now, the lesson seems to have drunk too much and be unable do drive home herself...

Well, Hel really doesn't seem to be a bit of a slow learner. Truely Loki has the patience of a saint.

I do not believe Loki is trying to teach anyone anything. I believe he’s just a jerk.

You say that as if the two are mutually exclusive.

[Grey Watcher]

The fact that it's on her is what makes me think of it. Maybe it's because she's as self-centered as a spinning top, or maybe because she's a loner, but the way she talks about it, and how it's on her to teach it to other dwarves, rather than talking about "loki priests", suggests to me that this is not something other Loki priests know of. Which suggests to me that Loki doesn't tell this to his priests, or some human Loki priest would have been sent to collect some dwarven souls for Loki over the last few hundred centuries.

Grey Wolf

:shrug: To me it just reads like she's not coordinating with (or even bothering to make herself specifically aware of) others doing the same thing, but it's not exclusive. She's a loner who works alone, so she's not going to rely on others to do her work for her, so she focuses on her doing the work. Just a difference in interpretation, I guess.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

:shrug: To me it just reads like she's not coordinating with (or even bothering to make herself specifically aware of) others doing the same thing, but it's not exclusive. She's a loner who works alone, so she's not going to rely on others to do her work for her, so she focuses on her doing the work. Just a difference in interpretation, I guess.

Fair enough, but I still maintain that her being a loner doesn't explain why, if this is something Loki teaches, such philosophy has not made it to dwarvenland over the last millenium. I mean, maybe it did and got rejected because it came from non-dwarves or whatever, and this is literally the first time a dwarven priest of Loki has been given the teaching and decided to make the effort, but that's a far cry from the original post I was answering that took it for granted that the philosophy must have come from Loki rather than some self-justification Hilgya came up with.

Grey Wolf

[Rogar Demonblud]

I do feel a little bad for the remaining Hel damned souls of the last century or so that Loki just gave up on arguing for.

And “do whatever is best for you” sounds a lot like “I’ve got mine, Jack” which I think was one of the evil thoughts in the astral plane.

More like "Lulz", which is the line for Pandemonium, the CE/CN plane.

And honestly I'm surprised Hilgya stuck around this long. I'd have thought she's split the very round Sigdi moved out of sight.

[Resileaf]

And honestly I'm surprised Hilgya stuck around this long. I'd have thought she's split the very round Sigdi moved out of sight.

She had to make sure Sigdi was far enough and wouldn't come back.

[Personification]

Not how she goes from "this should totally work for a Cleric of Loki" to "I'm spreading the word to all Dwarves."

Also, she wants her "ticket punched for Valhalla", not for some other domain

I think that all of the Northern gods (with some exceptions like Hel and probably the minor ones) live in parts of Valhalla.

[GrayDeath]

Ah, when your followers followign (some of) your teachings bites you in the Ass.

Shaath can growl a song about that too. ^^

[Fish]

And honestly I'm surprised Hilgya stuck around this long. I'd have thought she's split the very round Sigdi moved out of sight.

Don’t count on it. She could be pretending to leave. I won’t believe this isn’t a gambit until after the meeting is over.

[Keltest]

Don’t count on it. She could be pretending to leave. I won’t believe this isn’t a gambit until after the meeting is over.

I see no reason not to take her at her word. Hilgya has never been particularly bright.

[SlashDash]

Pardon me if this was mentioned, but I have a hunch the blindness is a checov thing.

Doesn't it grant him immunity to the gaze hypno gaze?

[jwhouk]

I see no reason not to take her at her word. Hilgya has never been particularly bright.

She was pretty bright right after she threw a Flamestrike at Durkon for proposing to her.

[KorvinStarmast]

Ah, when your followers followign (some of) your teachings bites you in the ass.

I get the idea that Hilgya following Loki's teachings, if that is what the last two panels represent, will do no harm to Loki.

(Not sure if it will harm OoTS, since I have yet to see the resolution of their battle with the big blue worm .. )

[Themrys]

Don’t count on it. She could be pretending to leave. I won’t believe this isn’t a gambit until after the meeting is over.

What kind of gambit do you suspect?

Perhaps I remember wrong, but I don't think she can get into the council meeting? She's on the wrong side of the broken bridge? So there's not much she can gain by lying.

I mean, she's a cleric of Loki, perhaps he told her previously that she is to leave if he gives the signal, as to deceive Hel, but that is rather far-fetched and so far we haven't seen any god talk directly to a still-alive cleric.

Her decision is perfectly reasonable and needs no further explanation. Little Kudzu is facing the risk of an eternity in Hel's domain. His best opportunity to die with honour would be getting the axe of an enemy while carried by Hilgya - and she was called a bad mother on the forums for risking that. If anyone dared criticise her for wanting to keep him safe from a fate war worse than death, I'd absolutely call them out on their hypocrisy.

Thanks to Loki's idiotic bet idea, it would, in fact, be the most reasonable thing for a rich high level cleric to make sure that the baby dies with honour (if that's possible for a baby, but I suppose Thor could argue that Kudzu died protecting his mother if he died in battle while strapped to Hilgya's chest) and keep open the opportunity to resurrect him if the world doesn't end. Her planeshift plan carries the risk that she'll not be able to escape in time.


I don't think there's many people who would risk their child ending up in Hel willingly for the greater good. A paladin might sacrifice her own afterlife, but I don't think many would consider it honourable to condemn an innocent child to eternal suffering for a somewhat better chance of saving the world.

Only way I see her returning is for her to planeshift, leave Kudzu with the friendly inhabitants of the plane of ranch dressing (or whatever plane she chooses), and then risk her own dishonourable, end-of-world-caused death, which isn't so bad from her perspective because she believes in her loophole.

[Lord Torath]

I think Hilgya refusing Durkon's proposal was one of the best decisions she's made thus far, both for herself and for Durkon. Her behavior here confirms it. Durkon is all about Duty and helping others. Hilgya is all about helping herself. They'd make each other miserable if she'd said "Yes".

[The_Weirdo]

I see no reason not to take her at her word. Hilgya has never been particularly bright.

Now, now. The plan to earn her just rewards from her family was quite crafty indeed.

[Keltest]

Now, now. The plan to earn her just rewards from her family was quite crafty indeed.

Her first plan was "set the building on fire." The second plan was slightly more elaborate, but that doesn't really require terribly much intelligence. Even Belkar and Elan are capable of cunning on occasion.

[gatemansgc]

Pardon me if this was mentioned, but I have a hunch the blindness is a checov thing.

Doesn't it grant him immunity to the gaze hypno gaze?

it's possible, someone who knows the rules better might know. plus he's pretty good at hitting his targets even when blind.

[The_Weirdo]

Her first plan was "set the building on fire." The second plan was slightly more elaborate, but that doesn't really require terribly much intelligence. Even Belkar and Elan are capable of cunning on occasion.

Well, both do honor her patron deity, no?

On a side note, Loki can sure be awesome.

[Tuhlore]

We finally get to see their strategy. Also, let's kill the nameless vampire already! It'll put the free willed in the majority, presumably.

[gatemansgc]

since hel didn't contest the deaths from the last century that loki brought in, the 32 others that died in the copper mine that day just got all their souls saved. since that was definitely less than a century ago.

[Pampukin]

Plane shifting away would help how exactly? I thought all of creation got unmade in the process. Didnt Thor or someone else said that specifically outsiders didnt got reset, but are not on the loop, cause they go a little crazy? Mortals on other planes dont get their souls reset? Wouldnt that be a risk since the whole thing is a super secret?
Also thinking about outsiders not knowing makes me wonder if the IFCC has some contingency for the universe getting reset, since their memories would get erased if they know thats a thing at all. Or if they already have avoided it and this is them "going a bit nuts" that Thor mentioned.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

since hel didn't contest the deaths from the last century that loki brought in, the 32 others that died in the copper mine that day just got all their souls saved. since that was definitely less than a century ago.

... Assuming they weren't already contested at the time, and assuming they weren't rezzed by their families.

Grey Wolf

[JumboWheat01]

Yes, food is always a great thing to get as a sign of appreciation.

[The_Weirdo]

Yes, food is always a great thing to get as a sign of appreciation.

Yeah, Logann is being quite awesome himself.