In a zombie apocalpyse

[dehro]

yeah..outside the US, munitions really aren't all that much available. you'd have to look for specialised shops that deal in hunting equipment, or military bases/police stations. not that many around, and not massively supplied either.
as for boar spears...whu? where'd you get one? they require a fair ammount of craftmanship to make an effective one that doesn't snap at the first use..and they're not really practical for much of anything, especially in narrow passages.
bolas? easy to make.... maybe. they require a crapload of practice to use with any tangible effect.

[Story Time]

This is a Boar Spear! The shaft guard is not sufficient to protect against a zombie! A pitch-fork would work better. A Japanese pole-arm ( naginata ) would work better.

Long spears are roughly two lengths of the warrior tall. This is roughly the maximum length of a non-phalanx spear...the length peasant militia would use ( zombie survivors ). A normal survivalist spear length is the length between the warrior's foot and his finger tips when holding his hand up into the air. In other words, when the spear wielder holds the spear up-right next to him, he should be able to touch the pin ( mentioned bellow ) with his finger tips.

Once a length is selected, a notch can be carved down over the top end of the spear shaft. A metal shaft guard is added. Then, the blade head can be added. Both of these, if they are not one piece of metal, are then affixed with metal pins through the shaft.

This is a Military Fork! It would be much better for sticking and then stopping a zombie. However, spear combat with zombies should only be attempted in groups of no less than three. Four would be more wise. Alone, evasion, traps, and ranged weapons should be the zombie survivor's primary tools.

As it's been said, "Don't use your gut; think!"

[Lord_Nathanel]

Well, having served in the military for ten years as a Ranger with the 75th and air assault in the 101st, I have to say that your ROLE changes to what the given situation needs. We are all trained to be able to do what is necessary at any given moment. Rifle? check Medic? you betcha Tactician? sure thing Translator? spanish/russian (this one is more focused). Ambush/traps/hunting? no problem. The most effective team is one that can morph to fit the situation. If you need to build a bridge that you can retract or trade with other teams of survivors safely, (this is where training your teammates means the difference between living maybe comfortably or dying to looters), then I would say that i'm your man. My skillset is varied and my training is to the point that I am jack of most trades and master of several. I guess i'm saying my role would be that of trainer/security/fortifications/weapon maintenance/tactics. The Army spent (according to the sheets I read on file when I became sergeant) an estimated 1.8 million dollars on my training over ten years and my effective military value (EMV) was 2.6 million. So I guess that means I am your man when it comes to flexibility. Wow could this sound any more like a brag? Rangers lead the way.

[Kjata]

To the people who responded to me:

I'm not saying I will run around piss drunk trying to kill everything. I'm saying if you have valuable resources, you are one of two things: An ally or an enemy. I would work with you if you are willing. I was leaning less towards a band of psycho killers, and more towards an efficient combat machine with the eventual goal of creating a militant organization and ultimately a settlement.

Yes, in the case of zombie apocalypse, fascism takes hold.

Sick people, young children, old people, these are all hindrances and must be removed. Short term survival is more important than long term, at last until a heavily fortified settlement can be established.

So really, you have several options: Join my organization, give me everything you have and be on your way, or die fighting for your belongings and freedom.

I feel that such an outlook has a much higher chance of surviving the zombies themselves, but has a chance of implosion which would destroy any chances of surviving anyone had. But really, every plan has a flaw. I'd rather be killed trying to establish order under me than be afraid of zombies themselves.

[Traab]

Honestly, depending on the size of your group, the size of "their" group, your strategy would likely end with your side dying out due to attrition more than anything else. I mean, while you may luck out and find stragglers willing to join, or not being ready to fight a group of armed people, there will also be other groups that ARE heavily armed and not interested in donating to your cause. Thats going to cause a lot of death and injury on all sides, and just weaken the human race even further.

Not a lot of groups are going to want to join your band of murderous thugs, And yes, thats exactly what you are. Whether they die quickly fighting back, or die slowly due to no longer having weapons or food, their only nonlethal option is to accept being a prisoner until you decide to trust them, which likely wont happen soon since you did just steal from them and threaten them with death. You are basically forcing a lethal confrontation every time you pull your "Everything belongs to Kjata and his group" style of government, and sooner or later, unless you get obscenely lucky and manage to gather a small army of stragglers early on, your losses will reach critical levels, because those other guys are going to be armed as well, and nobody likes dealing with bandits.

[Johel]

Not a lot of groups are going to want to join your band of murderous thugs, And yes, thats exactly what you are. Whether they die quickly fighting back, or die slowly due to no longer having weapons or food, their only nonlethal option is to accept being a prisoner until you decide to trust them, which likely wont happen soon since you did just steal from them and threaten them with death. You are basically forcing a lethal confrontation every time you pull your "Everything belongs to Kjata and his group" style of government, and sooner or later, unless you get obscenely lucky and manage to gather a small army of stragglers early on, your losses will reach critical levels, because those other guys are going to be armed as well, and nobody likes dealing with bandits.

Well said.

This means only two types of groups eventually survive :

The cooperative ones.
Which will eventually band together as they meet and decide that strength in number is a more viable long-term solution.
They will progressively consolidate their holds on ressource production and make wider and wider "zombi-free areas".

The merciless sneaky thug bands.
Which won't even bother asking their victims to give up the good stuff :
They will just embush, open fire, loot the corpses and enslave the few who weren't too wounded to carry their own weight.

On the long run, the cooperative ones are going to fuse and prevail, of course.
That's how civilization work :
Small groups slowly learn to trust NOT to be murdered in their sleep by each others, as the benefits of not killing the others are greater than doing so.

The question is how long it will take before a specific cooperative group become big enough to impose a return of law and order.
Because between the Z-day and the moment where a stable, numerous and sedentary civilization reestablish itself, the merciless ones are kings.

The cooperative groups will want to refrain from needless killing.
Either because they are hoping to get more people or at least to be extended the same courtesy.
While the merciless ones will only refrain from frontal confrontation because of common sense :
No point in showing off your guns if you can just as easily smile and trade on VERY generous terms to learn or weaken the other group's weaponery.
Only to then shoot these brave folk in the back when they least expect it.

------------------------------------

On another note, what about body armor ?
If zombies are the main direct physical threath, how effective would body protection be ?
I got that scene from 28 days latter with the guy in anti-riot suit holding his ground in a staircase against incoming Zs.
Would this be really pratical ?

[Kjata]

Honestly, depending on the size of your group, the size of "their" group, your strategy would likely end with your side dying out due to attrition more than anything else. I mean, while you may luck out and find stragglers willing to join, or not being ready to fight a group of armed people, there will also be other groups that ARE heavily armed and not interested in donating to your cause. Thats going to cause a lot of death and injury on all sides, and just weaken the human race even further.

Not a lot of groups are going to want to join your band of murderous thugs, And yes, thats exactly what you are. Whether they die quickly fighting back, or die slowly due to no longer having weapons or food, their only nonlethal option is to accept being a prisoner until you decide to trust them, which likely wont happen soon since you did just steal from them and threaten them with death. You are basically forcing a lethal confrontation every time you pull your "Everything belongs to Kjata and his group" style of government, and sooner or later, unless you get obscenely lucky and manage to gather a small army of stragglers early on, your losses will reach critical levels, because those other guys are going to be armed as well, and nobody likes dealing with bandits.

Honestly, that's a very real possibility. But so is just dying.

Going about such an endeavor would be complex. Initially, I would have to be understanding, motivational. Attract strength, which will in turn attract more.

The beginning would be the toughest. Obviously, if I have a small band I can't be abrasive and dictatorial, I would have to make it seem like more of a fellowship. Get early members to be on my side. Only once I attract a small army could i begin the "Join us, or else." And honestly, if a large group tells you you have no choice but to join, chances are there won't be a lot of complaints.

Every infamous dictator had a lot of hurdles to overcome, but there is a reason why people like Ghengis Khan are still known 800 years later.

@Johel: Disaster opens the way towards dictatorship. Being a cooperative group until you have the resources to do otherwise is a fine way to establish control over a large amount of people. If your fascist neighbors outnumber you 10-1, maybe you would start to think you have a better survival rate with them? Submit to their authority, and get shelter in the fortified compound.
Obviously, I'm just trolling you guys. The idea fascinates me, and honestly I think I might start a roleplaying game with the character I described as the main antagonist.

[Traab]

On another note, what about body armor ?
If zombies are the main direct physical threath, how effective would body protection be ?
I got that scene from 28 days latter with the guy in anti-riot suit holding his ground in a staircase against incoming Zs.
Would this be really pratical ?

Somewhat, but not very. The main problem is, most body armor is head and torso protection. Zombies bite everywhere, but limbs they can latch onto are the easiest target. If you want body armor for zombies, the best mix would be leather sleeves and gloves. Next would be leather leggings. Heavy enough to resist tearing in a bite, but light enough to allow for mobility. Arms and hands are THE MOST IMPORTANT areas to protect that way. Think about it. If you are being attacked, how do you try to protect yourself? you use your hands and arms to ward off the attacker. Thats the body part that will see the most risk of being bitten.

[Johel]

@Johel: Disaster opens the way towards dictatorship. Being a cooperative group until you have the resources to do otherwise is a fine way to establish control over a large amount of people. If your fascist neighbors outnumber you 10-1, maybe you would start to think you have a better survival rate with them? Submit to their authority, and get shelter in the fortified compound.

Yes.
But there are three big types of dictators, in those situations.

• Those who say "You do as I say or you leave with your stuff."
• Those who say "You do as I say or you leave naked."
• Those who say "You do as I say or you die."

From what you say, you would be either type 2 or 3.

Type 2 can only work if the exiled is a complete outcast, hated by most of the group, and if the supply level is critically low.
Otherwise, you would always have people asking to give at least some rations, clothes and a weapon.
And refusing this would be looking unecessary cruel, which is the fastest way to be deposed.

Type 3 can only work if people worship you as a godlike figure or if you inspire so much fear in the group that they don't dare to context.
Or if the man you want to kill is a real bastard which deserve death because letting him live would be unfair or dangerous for the rest of the group.
Killing for other reasons a man who could have otherwise just left would just make people hate you.

So before starting to play the "join or die", you would have to be some kind of guru inside your own group.
To the point when people don't care about butchering or enslaving the rest of Humanity.
You would then have to be the same kind of guru for the "newcomers".
Because, long term, they will just try to run away or to revolt when they get more numerous than the members of your original band.
Most of them won't like the idea of being untrusted second class citizens forbidden to travel as they please.

As an individual, faced with the choice to "join or die", I join.
Then I stack up supply and deffect at the first opportunity.
Because the choice is simple :

• Risking my life to survive facing the wild alone and maybe get myself in a very confy position.
  OR
• Risking my life to survive as a slave around guys who would have killed me without blinking for what I had on my back.

[Traab]

Yes.
But there are three big types of dictators, in those situations.

• Those who say "You do as I say or you leave with your stuff."
• Those who say "You do as I say or you leave naked."
• Those who say "You do as I say or you die."

From what you say, you would be either type 2 or 3.

Type 2 can only work if the exiled is a complete outcast, hated by most of the group, and if the supply level is critically low.
Otherwise, you would always have people asking to give at least some rations, clothes and a weapon.
And refusing this would be looking unecessary cruel, which is the fastest way to be deposed.

Type 3 can only work if people worship you as a godlike figure or if you inspire so much fear in the group that they don't dare to context.
Or if the man you want to kill is a real bastard which deserve death because letting him live would be unfair or dangerous for the rest of the group.
Killing for other reasons a man who could have otherwise just left would just make people hate you.

So before starting to play the "join or die", you would have to be some kind of guru inside your own group.
To the point when people don't care about butchering or enslaving the rest of Humanity.
You would then have to be the same kind of guru for the "newcomers".
Because, long term, they will just try to run away or to revolt when they get more numerous than the members of your original band.
Most of them won't like the idea of being untrusted second class citizens forbidden to travel as they please.

As an individual, faced with the choice to "join or die", I join.
Then I stack up supply and deffect at the first opportunity.
Because the choice is simple :

• Risking my life to survive facing the wild alone and maybe get myself in a very confy position.
  OR
• Risking my life to survive as a slave around guys who would have killed me without blinking for what I had on my back.

Exactly, and presumably not being morons, his group wouldnt let you near anything like a weapon for some time, probably keep you watched for awhile, and who knows how long it would be before you got any kind of a chance to escape. There is also the problem of, eventually, if he runs into a lot of groups that he assimilates, there will be a rather large portion of his camp consisting of what amounts to forced conscripts. People who likely arent happy with the way things went, and you have a chance at an insurrection.

In all seriousness, if you go the robbery route at all, just kill them and be done with it. Otherwise you will waste half your manpower guarding what are effectively prisoners, who wont be contributing much and just using resources because you cant trust them to do much of anything without them making a break for it, or trying to kill you. Its very dangerous to try and get converts at the end of a rifle.

[Story Time]

On another note, what about body armor?

On the subject of armor there is one, and only one, primary consideration ( for the civilian ).

"Is it comfortable?"

Yes, I'm serious. If it's comfortable, or been made comfortable by alteration, then the person is more likely to wear it. If they wear it, they are more likely to be defended should bullets go their way. Armor is heavy, and I'll admit it's more likely to be useful against humans with guns rather than zombies, but armor not worn on the day of World War Z won't help the survivor.

As for the question of effectiveness, it partly depends on the type of armor, but most quality armor which is tear resistant will stop teeth, claws, and lots of anything else at least once. Of course, that requires that the armor itself covers those areas. The survivor concerned about being shot, or bitten, in the leg should consider that kind of armor, but neither should a human allow themselves to be that close to a zombie, alone.

[Kjata]

I think you are overestimating humanity here. I don't doubt there would be those opposing me, there always are in these sorts of situations. But desperation leaves people vulnerable.

Take post WW1 Germany. Food and supplies were scarce, so a madman with an ideal got people under his control, than instituted insane doctrine.

The weak and "inferior" were eliminated in order to establish a new world order. An orginization promoting the extermination of the weak and undead would be popular, regardless of the way things went about. When there is a militant group fighting against a worse evil, people will begin to believe that maybe the lesser of two evils is the right choice.

When your options are be indoctrinated or be alone, I believe the semblance of a government will appeal to those who have begun to lose hope. With the promise of safety, people will see that maybe they are better of under me. Especially when the people who haven't lost their morality in a crisis begin to slowly defect, then quickly be exterminated.

Yes, people will defect. But as someone pointed out, heroism is a good way to die. When the defectors have an angry dictator as well as the zombie horde to deal with, the only options are I win or nobody does, as the infighting destroyed any chance anyone has.

[dehro]

I have a problem with your definition of dictator.

efficient dictators, the ones that survive to be recorded as such and not as common thugs (because they wrote the recording) aren't delivered by a stork
they're a product of their society..a society that doesn't start out with the purpose of having a dictator. it may get there, but starts out with rules...and backup of the law or the military (yet another organisation steeped in rules) there may be rules that explicitly instate a dictator, such as the Gaul tribes who in case of ware elect (yes, elect) a warchief who then is effectively a dictator until war is over... that's how a certain Caesar came to power too.. there isn't a single dictator in recorded history who didn't become such by being duly elected or by being a military leader and a respected figure of authority within the military of his land. even African dictators always start out as tribal chiefs (so birthright) or military figures risen through the ranks and with popular support.
precious few of them have died of old age.

zombiegeddon means the breaking down of society. in such a situation you cannot call yourself a dictator just because you've got a big gun.
ok, you're efficient and more organized than many others..but you're still a bully, just one with more guns. the thing is...that's assuming you have had time to create a following..a band of people loyal to you for a number of reasons. that's not going to "be the plan from day 1"...unless you happen to already be the leader of a criminal gang or somesuch.
if you start out with a rifle and having to scramble and scavenge for food like anyone else... and your first 2-5-10 encounters are of the nature of "I've got a bigger gun, clear off or I'll kill you"...you're never going to get that following that would make a dictator off you. as you put it, to survive you'd have to "cull the weak".. which leaves only the strong.

why would the strong feel a need to follow you, of all people? they've got a gun too..maybe a bigger one than you. why should not any of them be leader and getting the perks? all you're doing is bringing together a pack of wolves who have no reason to be loyal to one another and are just as likely to tunr on one another as soon as something they need becomes scarce. in fact they'll turn on the guy who had the brilliant idea of sticking together first.
you'll end up either being the grunt for someone who has actually got a bit more street cred than you...because he had it before all hell broke loose.. or being very much dead because loyalty in such a situation lasts only as long as your coffee supply lasts.

[Johel]

I think you are overestimating humanity here. I don't doubt there would be those opposing me, there always are in these sorts of situations. But desperation leaves people vulnerable.

Take post WW1 Germany. Food and supplies were scarce, so a madman with an ideal got people under his control, than instituted insane doctrine.

The weak and "inferior" were eliminated in order to establish a new world order. An orginization promoting the extermination of the weak and undead would be popular, regardless of the way things went about. When there is a militant group fighting against a worse evil, people will begin to believe that maybe the lesser of two evils is the right choice.

When your options are be indoctrinated or be alone, I believe the semblance of a government will appeal to those who have begun to lose hope. With the promise of safety, people will see that maybe they are better of under me. Especially when the people who haven't lost their morality in a crisis begin to slowly defect, then quickly be exterminated.

Yes, people will defect. But as someone pointed out, heroism is a good way to die. When the defectors have an angry dictator as well as the zombie horde to deal with, the only options are I win or nobody does, as the infighting destroyed any chance anyone has.

Not going to go into real world politic too much.
Key in this is that the "weak an inferior" were actually here the minority.
So said mad man could play on it without having a large portion of the population wondering why they should accept to be sacrificed.
In the end, the mad man lost because most of humanity hated his guts and gang on him.
Sheer numerical superiority did the job : when people hate you more than they fear you, no firepower can save you.

---------------------

For the rest of your argument, it boils down to one question, then :
"Is there another choice ?".

The answer is going to be yes.
Over time, other more friendly groups will grow too.
And people will get the hint that there is more option than being slave into Kjata Fellowship or dying like a dog.

Unless "Kjata Fellowship" can expand fast enough to conquer the world before any other kind of civilization establish itself strongly enough to resist.
It is a possibility.
And on the long run, it might be the best.
Humanity going through a fascist/totalitarian phase where the livings fight the undeads until the world is cleaned.
Then the dictatorship, lacking a common ennemy, start to crumble from the inside.
After 740 years, Kjata XXIII, would be hanged.
While the 15 meter tall golden statue of his ancestor would be left in place as a big "thank you for helping us NOT going extinct".

[noparlpf]

A bola to the legs would largely stop a zombie and, just looking at them, they don't look like the hardest weapon to make from scrounged materials.

I was gonna suggest that. Bolas are cool, but they'd take some practice to be able to use well.

[Traab]

I was gonna suggest that. Bolas are cool, but they'd take some practice to be able to use well.

Heh, plenty of targets to work with!

[Kjata]

Glad to see I'm getting a tiny bit of support here. I think you guys are starting to see how this works.

Unless "Kjata Fellowship" can expand fast enough to conquer the world before any other kind of civilization establish itself strongly enough to resist.
It is a possibility.
And on the long run, it might be the best.
Humanity going through a fascist/totalitarian phase where the livings fight the undeads until the world is cleaned.
Then the dictatorship, lacking a common ennemy, start to crumble from the inside.
After 740 years, Kjata XXIII, would be hanged.
While the 15 meter tall golden statue of his ancestor would be left in place as a big "thank you for helping us NOT going extinct".

I don't give a damn about Kjata XXIII, or even Kjata II. Of course the empire wouldn't last, they never do. It's all about there being an empire. There being a gold statue of me in my honor is fantastic. Nobody remembers the brutality of the winner.

Really, I think rational people would realize that a dictatorship is better than being zombie food. I would attract the power hungry, then the desperate, then the rational. Eventually I will die, but I will have left my mark on humanity. Savior or destroyer.

[dehro]

if you could get down from your delusion of grandeur for long enough to answer the question I asked you previously, I'd appreciate it.

I'll rephrase it.
why would the power hungry let you lead them instead of grabbing the power off you to begin with? what makes you better suited to rule than any of them? and why would they respect that if you're presenting them with a model where the guy with the biggest gun wins?
what power do you have aside from having a gun that they don't have or can't take from you, since that's what you're doing to other people too?

[Johel]

I'll rephrase it.
why would the power hungry let you lead them instead of grabbing the power off you to begin with? what makes you better suited to rule than any of them? and why would they respect that if you're presenting them with a model where the guy with the biggest gun wins?
what power do you have aside from having a gun that they don't have or can't take from you, since that's what you're doing to other people too?

I don't think it matters much.
The debat is not about Kjata himself as an individual.
He could be a tall muscular and charismatic übermensch or a cowardly little shadow of a leader that it would matter.
It is about his proposed theorical method to CONQUER THE WOOOOOOOOOOOOORLD.

Said method is not good to create an state of any sort.
But if your aim is really just to survive as long as possible while enjoying everything this good Earth would still have to offer, that's the way to go.

No god, no master, except yourself and the road.
And of course that cheating bastard of 2nd in command who'd eventually decide he would make a better leader.
High probability that it would happen less than a year after Z-Day.
When His Glory would be drunk/sick/wounded/asleep/bathing/taking a piss.
And therefor hands away from weapons.

"After the Z-Day, life was short, cruel and brutal. Some cowered in fear, waiting for better days to come.
Others assume Mankind's dusk was at hand and decided to party to death."

[Coidzor]

Aside from the ridiculous risk of getting killed that being a raider represents, yeah. Especially if the surviving fragments of a group that's serious about rebuilding like the military that outclass you in every way end up coming near your territory.

[Johel]

Aside from the ridiculous risk of getting killed that being a raider represents, yeah. Especially if the surviving fragments of a group that's serious about rebuilding like the military that outclass you in every way end up coming near your territory.

I don't know.

I guess the army would be very useful in the second stage of the epidemic, when people start to overcome the disbelieve.
And government understands containment is a absolute necessity to avoid a true Zpocalyspe.

However, if said containment fail, I guess many soldiers would just desert to save their families.
It's not like they would be fighting a war with a clear front, away from their homes and with an ennemy that can be defeated just by hitting the hierarchy.
They would have to protect their family to avoid THEM becoming the ennemy.

But then, we are exposed the absudity of a Zpocalypse in the first place :
Why would the whole military chain of command just crumble when facing an ennemy that cannot formulate a coordonated defense or offense ?
Or at least why would it crumble to the point where madness is allowed to run the show for more than a few days ?

[TechnoScrabble]

See, all this is why I'm taking my father's boat to one of the reef lighthouses off of Grassy Key. No zombies, little chance of raiders, and a ten minute (five minutes in good wind) sail back to land to grab supplies.

Plus, I could steal some of the actual pirate ships that are on display and go up and down the coast looting and pretending to be a pirate.

[Coidzor]

Why would the whole military chain of command just crumble when facing an ennemy that cannot formulate a coordonated defense or offense?

Apparently people seem to think that fleeing from the zombies and trying to piece-meal protect their likely already dead families is a more attractive option to members of the military than working to end the zombies as a group.

I guess many soldiers would just desert to save their families.

[dehro]

Plus, I could steal some of the actual pirate ships that are on display and go up and down the coast looting and pretending to be a pirate.

pretty close to the actual definition of piracy

I don't think it matters much.
The debat is not about Kjata himself as an individual.
He could be a tall muscular and charismatic übermensch or a cowardly little shadow of a leader that it would matter.
It is about his proposed theorical method to CONQUER THE WOOOOOOOOOOOOORLD.

Said method is not good to create an state of any sort.
But if your aim is really just to survive as long as possible while enjoying everything this good Earth would still have to offer, that's the way to go.

... it very much is, and no, that's not the way to go unless you have superpowers that keep you from harm.

his method relies on more people than just himself supporting his cause, from the very first day.
unless he is some kind of ubermensch like you say, he is never going to get the support of those single few initial individuals that he'd need to become a menace to anyone other than by the fact he has a gun, which isn't all that rare in his parts to begin with.
his entire plan hinges on muscle, and on the fact that he'll convince people they're better with him under him, than against him or in his place at the top of the pack.
a pack of one isn't a pack
if at day 0 it's just him and a rifle, how does he plan to get his first follower if he's proposing to just loot for everything he needs at the expense of another? who is he going to encounter? weak people who will oppose him may die trying to keep their belongings to themselves. strong people who oppose him will kill him if he tries to take stuff from them. people who he chances upon that don't outright kill him but could be potential allies in a looting party.. those are the only candidates for his army of Kjata barada nikto
the thing is..why should they pledge their loyalty to him if he's going to act like a jerk? if they're not jerks, they'll dump him as soon as they find out they've got a looter/reaver/sociopath on their hands.
if they are just as much of a jerk as he is.. they'll just stick by him as long as he shares equally and doesn't stand in their way if they want something. if he then starts ordering them around...

I don't see any scenario in which this could work out well for him, not even in the short run..let alone the years that it would take to actually build a working society, albeit a dictatorship.

[SamBurke]

Here's a plan I came up with a few years ago. I'm sure there are tons of errors and it's completely impracticable, BUT, it'd be what I hoped to do. (By impracticable, I mean it requires hundreds of people, many of whom with specialized degrees. I could find a bunch of them, but it would still be tough.)

My plan for the apocalypse:
a. Not to care about myself, but get together with a bunch of scientists, along the following idea: we would devote ourselves to learning about zeds, how they work, what they do, what their weaknesses are, and distribute that information (in exchange for minor foodstuffs for our survival) to everyone we can by pamphlet, radio, and whatever else would work.

b. We’d have as many scientists as we could locked up in some sort of Wal-Mart like thing (which has very few windows except for the front. In the front would be the guard houses for people with weapons to use). The plant department has loads of sand-bag type sacks, and we could barricade almost anything relatively efficiently, especially with the mega shelves. We’d run a pipe from the underground gas tanks, insulate it with concrete, and pump whatever we needed, being careful to vent all the carbon monoxide, etc, out. Wash everything comin in Alchohol (rubbing, not beer).

c. And yes, every week, on Sunday, there would be a service. It would give people something to look forward to, hope, etc, as covered above. Nondemonational, just to help with morale.

d. As an alternate, we could hide out on a military base like Fort Hood. Nuff said about its defenses etc.

e. Going back to the Wal-Mart Contingency, the idea is that we also set up networks around the US and eventually the world to distribute information about the zeds. Three people (probably with a cat or something) would take over a convenience store, board it up, and ration the gas that is there to the populace, as well as keep order in the general vicinity. One man would be the radio operator, would be good with Audio Visual stuff and broadcasting. Another would be the fighter, another would be the gatherer, who could also fight.

f. The main Wal-Mart would be set up in this fashion: 6 fighters per area that needed to be guarded, preferably ex-service or current service (IE, police, SWAT, military). They would go in two shifts, with a leader (given binocs as a spotter), fighter, and radio op, who could also fight or has special knowledge like sniping or demolitions. The parking lot of the Wal-Mart would be riddled with land mines except near the concrete pipeline.

g. Gas Station. Would have two men, one a mechanic/radio op, one a fighter. They would also be responsible for giving warning about oncoming zeds and helping to keep the parking lot clear. An aerial means of rescuing them would be necessary. Probably along the lines of a zipline off of a tall pole or something like that.

h. Hospital. Work on an efficient cure for the disease ASAP. When possible, scatter the remedy and give it to zeds, but more importantly, people who have been infected but are not zombies yet, and especially scientists or anyone with knowledge.

i. All relationships would be forbidden, except where necessary to reproduce. If everyone could get past the “squick” factor, you could set up a nursery next to the hospital. Each man “marries” a nurse, but never sees her except for an hour or so at night. During the day she tends to the sick, cooks, or does anything else she’s good at (IE, schedules, radio, or even science. But in a seperate area). There would be a “relationship police” to make sure that even among the men everyone is equinanimous.

[Addendum: this is not about sexism or the roles of women, or anything of the sort: this is designed to remove and destroy drama if at all possible.]


j. Court. We'd need court of law to keep things under order. Jury of eight peers, people who know the person but aren’t FRIENDS with them. A judge appointed who does not know anyone.

k. If I am missing anything, I reserve the right to add it later.

[Traab]

Heh, I used to have a fun plan, that relied upon me first winning a powerball jackpot.

I would have a castle built out as far in the middle of nowhere as I could manage next to a stream/river that I could hook up a water wheel generator to.

With 3 layers of terraced stone walls setup, each with the outside to a height of 15 feet, and thick enough for 2 to walk abreast on the top. As well as being built against the ground on the inside for extra support.

In between the first and second walls would be farmland and some basic housing would be between the second and third.

The castle itself would be able to sleep several dozen people in an emergency, with sniper nests at all 4 corners of the battlements to cover all the open area. Anything that gets past the first wall into the farmlands is within range of the snipers.

The library would be fully stocked with normal books, but also as many instructional manuals as possible, to cover every trade and profession. First aid, electrical, plumbing, hvac, electronics, basically, the list would take pages to go through, but it would be enough to maintain at least basic proficiency in just about every aspect of life that could come in handy for rebuilding civilization.

There would be an armory with enough guns to arm everyone with at least two, (to cover weapon breakage) and as much ammo as I could reasonably buy and stockpile.

There would be fairly significant warehouse space for food and drinks to be stored. Dry goods, canned goods, things that will last a long time. Also including all seed goods needed to start growing crops for the long haul.

Ah well, I could go on for a long time, but you get the gist. Basically id have a fortress ready and waiting to withstand any zombie horde. My walls are too tall to be climbed, and too strong to be toppled, I have enough protected area to raise crops forever, and enough guns and ammo to keep the area clear of zombies or raiders. As well as enough stockpiled materials to make or repair whatever is needed. Only problem is deciding who to take with me.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Really, I think rational people would realize that a dictatorship is better than being zombie food.

I could take my rifle and gun and rope and earn eternity in Elysium, or I could be a coward and admit to your rule, and wander forever in Asphodel. Life is less than a century, but death is eternal.

Although I guess it would depend on if my family was with me or not, and how much my death would help them. And if you were willing to let my family in, since it'd likely contain young ones. But if it was like the apocalypse started at this moment and it was only a couple months later that you started gathering people, I definitely wouldn't bow to you. In fact, I'd probably bring a gun when you decide to make a speech and shoot you there. And if I missed, and you punish me, I'll make my mark on the people, with a short, simple sentence. Avenge me.

[Sha'uri]

I, unfortunately, don't think I'll be of much use in a Zombie Apocalypse when it comes to the fighting part. My husband, RandomNPC, says my job would be to keep an eye on our son and come up with the food. I do, though, have a few nice, sharp katana at my disposal.

[TechnoScrabble]

Freedom is the greatest gift of the sapient mind, it's hard to make people give it up.

Why do dictatorships last a few years in real life? Because the people believe the dictator really does have all the power.

Why don't they last centuries? Because it only takes a few people realizing that's not the case to end them.

And in a zombie apocalypse, when people are even more prone to rash action than usual...well...It becomes a matter of 'If you can't hold off your enemies yourself, someone will kill you, probably sooner rather than later'.

And who's to say there's not a bigger fish, Kjata? A big, nasty fish with sharp teeth, a shotgun, and a busload of drinking buddies?

Also, as someone who's been shot multiple times, shot in the face (.22 revolver from rather far away, the bullet just chipped my skull, I like to show off the scar), hit by cars multiple times (usually due to my stupid bike chain popping near a street), stabbed multiple times, hit upside the head with a crowbar, hit in the face with a shovel, hit in the face with a 2x6, hit in the face with a nailbat, hit in the face with a normal baseball bat (I used to be a stud like you, until I took an everything to the face), half-strangled with a chainsaw blade (luckily it was rusty and broke), injected with an overdose of heroin in my sleep because my ex-stepfather thought it would be funny, literally been given a view of my intestines via my ex-stepmother and her wedding ring, attacked by German Shepard pretty much every time I see one (the breed as a whole hates me it seems, but I don't blame them), thrown out of a 3rd story plate glass window (a semi trailer below broke my fall, so it was more like 1.5 story in fall distance), pistol whipped, shotgun whipped, elephant gun whipped (so glad the bullet from that one missed), had another ex-stepfather try to drown me in a septic tank, hit in the face with a beer bottle, hit in the face with fists, and stabbed with a pencil and a batman hot wheel toy in a McDonald's playpit and come out unchanged aside from some scars (most of which have healed) and ceramic plates and pins in my limbs, and the occasional tendency to stay as far away from windows as possible when in tall buildings, I rather doubt whatever army a post apocalyptic dictator could round up would scare me. At this point, death would be a sort of 'Oh hey' experience rather than a terrifying 'OH HEY' experience. I hope.

Though I doubt my ability to feel right killing anybody. Hell, I only ever hit back in school once and immediately dropped the chair and apologized, giving the kid the ice pack the nurse had given me the first time he'd jumped me that day.

Although I really hope someone has the antibiotics and unpronounceable goop I need to receive regularly to avoid constant sharp pains in my upper spine.

[Traab]

I, unfortunately, don't think I'll be of much use in a Zombie Apocalypse when it comes to the fighting part. My husband, RandomNPC, says my job would be to keep an eye on our son and come up with the food. I do, though, have a few nice, sharp katana at my disposal.

Meh, someone has to hold down the fort while the undisciplined rabble with rifles goes out zombie killin.