Batwoman

[Kyberwulf]

So, the trailer dropped for the show. Anyone have thoughts on it?

[Peelee]

Link to the trailer. Haven't had a chance to watch it yet, We've had a customer in pretty frequently so far.

[KOLE]

Batwoman: I need you, a man, who designed this suit and built it for a man who defended this city, to redesign this suit for me, a woman.

Also Batwoman, minutes later: I won't let a man take credit for a woman's work.

Spoiler: MFW

Show

[Reddish Mage]

Batwoman: I need you, a man, who designed this suit and built it for a man who defended this city, to redesign this suit for me, a woman.

Also Batwoman, minutes later: I won't let a man take credit for a woman's work.

Because when a superhero swoops in and saves the day, everyone credits the one who made that guy's suit.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Because when a superhero swoops in and saves the day, everyone credits the one who made that guy's suit.

Or more precisely, all credit (according to KOLE) must go to the guy who took an already perfect suit and modified it slightly so it fit a new person.

Random misogyny aside, I think I might watch this, if/when it becomes available to me. Looks interesting.

Between that and the latest re-casting of batman, I am very much amused by the direction this quasi-franchise is taking. Might be worth giving it a new try.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

Because when a superhero swoops in and saves the day, everyone credits the one who made that guy's suit.

This exactly. She's the one jumping off buildings, so I see no problem with her wanting people to know it's not Batman. It may be a good idea for misdirection to protect her identity, but I'm not gonna begrudge her that. So long as they establish that they she's able to do what she does (and hell, they have options here - they could even go the Terry McGinnis route here and let the suit do a lot of the heavy lifting to free up her background. Batman Beyond knocked it out of the park, and even had some good suit-centered stories to boot, so there's already precedent for that, even if I think they're going to have her be a trained fighter), she's good to go.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

This exactly. She's the one jumping off buildings, so I see no problem with her wanting people to know it's not Batman. It may be a good idea for misdirection to protect her identity, but I'm not gonna begrudge her that. So long as they establish that they she's able to do what she does (and hell, they have options here - they could even go the Terry McGinnis route here and let the suit do a lot of the heavy lifting to free up her background. Batman Beyond knocked it out of the park, and even had some good suit-centered stories to boot, so there's already precedent for that, even if I think they're going to have her be a trained fighter), she's good to go.

Not sure if you've watched the trailer yet, but it heavily implies she a) goes in on her own, in civvies, ii) gets in a bit of a struggle, 3) decides to raid the bat cave for supplies to make her future runs easier, four) gets confused for a returned batman, z) decides to personalize the suit to make it clear that's no man in the suit.

So yes, if the trailer is to be believed, they do show that she can pull it off without the suit, but obviously the suit makes it easier, what with the armour and the gadgets. As it was for Batman.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

Not sure if you've watched the trailer yet, but it heavily implies she a) goes in on her own, in civvies, ii) gets in a bit of a struggle, 3) decides to raid the bat cave for supplies to make her future runs easier, four) gets confused for a returned batman, z) decides to personalize the suit to make it clear that's no man in the suit.

So yes, if the trailer is to be believed, they do show that she can pull it off without the suit, but obviously the suit makes it easier, what with the armour and the gadgets. As it was for Batman.

Grey Wolf

Just got the chance. The biggest flaw I saw so far was that I expected her to say "me" instead of "a woman" when talking about the suit. And if that turns out to actually be the biggest flaw in the finished series, it's gonna be pretty dang good.

[Palanan]

Urf.

Not enough of a Bats fan to see any appeal in this. I watched the first three episodes of Gotham and quit, so I think DC is just not for me.

That said, is Psycho Babe another version of Harley Quinn, or is this a different villain? And is that Lucius Fox Jr.?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Random misogyny aside, I think I might watch this, if/when it becomes available to me.

CW currently has it scheduled for Sunday nights after Supergirl this autumn. FYI.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

That said, is Psycho Babe another version of Harley Quinn, or is this a different villain?

Seems to be the Mad Hatter. Not sure if that is an existing bat villain or not, but bunny masks and general demeanor suggests Mad Hatter to me.

CW currently has it scheduled for Sunday nights after Supergirl this autumn. FYI.

The CW is not available here. I usually catch their series in Netflix, if it makes it there (e.g. Supernatural, which I hear is/was a CW property?)

Grey Wolf

[GloatingSwine]

Seems to be the Mad Hatter. Not sure if that is an existing bat villain or not, but bunny masks and general demeanor suggests Mad Hatter to me.

Yes, Mad Hatter is an existing bat-villain. Just about every wacky theme has been a bat-villain by this point.

Not a terribly important one though. He was one of the comedy also-rans for a long while.

And given that the first line we see her use to Rose is "curiouser and curiouser" I'm going to say definitely Mad Hatter.

The masks might be mind control masks, that's a frequent wheeze for the Hatter.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Seems to be the Mad Hatter. Not sure if that is an existing bat villain or not, but bunny masks and general demeanor suggests Mad Hatter to me.


The CW is not available here. I usually catch their series in Netflix, if it makes it there (e.g. Supernatural, which I hear is/was a CW property?)

Grey Wolf

Was, at this point. Not sure if CW's deal with Netflix still stands, as there's been some shake up in the streaming market lately.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Don't really have any knowledge of or attachment to the character, but I like what I see. Ruby Rose works really well in the role, I love that attitude. Production looks pretty strong as well.

[Celestia]

I don't like her haircut, too cliché butch lesbian (and just plain ugly), but, otherwise, it looks good. I just hope that the hair isn't an indication that the show will portray her sexuality in a horrible, male gaze, exploitative fashion and actually handles it in a mature, respectful way. That's all I ask. I desperately want a quality, high profile show with a lesbian lead.

[Cen]

Speaking in memes:

Child: look it's batman!
Batwoman: it's MA'AM!!!!

also: looks pretty meh, rather'd watch Sonic.

also also: that's not Barbara Gordon, right?

[Reddish Mage]

I don't like her haircut, too cliché butch lesbian (and just plain ugly), but, otherwise, it looks good. I just hope that the hair isn't an indication that the show will portray her sexuality in a horrible, male gaze, exploitative fashion and actually handles it in a mature, respectful way. That's all I ask. I desperately want a quality, high profile show with a lesbian lead.

The hair isn’t really an indication of sexualization of the character, its an indication of a butch haircut. We’ve seen her in the cross-over and from that and the trailer I’m not getting any out-of-place vibes about her sexuality, or in fact, much of an emphasis.

Just got the chance. The biggest flaw I saw so far was that I expected her to say "me" instead of "a woman" when talking about the suit. And if that turns out to actually be the biggest flaw in the finished series, it's gonna be pretty dang good.

No doubt, Ruby Rose will hit you with a “woman power” statement nearly every episode. This is clearly a central part of her character, more so than her sexuality.

Speaking of bad hair. The whole point of “not letting a man take the credit” is clearly the explanation for why she wears that hideous long red wig, which is also too fem. It must’ve been between that and the pink ribbon.

[Dienekes]

Eh, this really didn't look all that good to me. But then I haven't really liked any of the CW hero shoes in a long while (though I will always respect Flash for having the stones to make a telepathic gorilla one of their villains) so will likely give this one a pass.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

So, the trailer dropped for the show. Anyone have thoughts on it?

20 years ago it would have been groundbreaking.

Today, meh.

That said, I can watch Supergirl when the kids are home so I'll give this a try.

[Ranxerox]

That said, is Psycho Babe another version of Harley Quinn, or is this a different villain? And is that Lucius Fox Jr.?

No, she is Batwoman's archnemesis and twin sister (at least in the comics), Alice. The guy is listed by IMDB as Luke Fox, so yes, Lucius Fox Jr.

[Anteros]

I really don't understand this obsession DC has with pushing shows for niche characters most people don't care about. Do we really need a show for every single Bat family member besides Batman? Really? Stop making Batwoman, Gotham, Nightwing, etc and just make a Batman show already if you want to use the setting. You can still use those characters and spin off from there if they're popular.

Edit: So I just watched the trailer. Yeah, this looks really cliche, edgy, and bad. Then again, CW shows are normally targeted at young teens so it's probably more appealing to someone in the right demographic.

[Peelee]

I really don't understand this obsession DC has with pushing shows for niche characters most people don't care about. Do we really need a show for every single Bat family member besides Batman? Really? Stop making Batwoman, Gotham, Nightwing, etc and just make a Batman show already if you want to use the setting. You can still use those characters and spin off from there if they're popular.

I, too, hate when networks take risks.

[Anteros]

I, too, hate when networks take risks.

I, too, can make canned statements that misrepresent other people's points to make myself feel smug.

I don't care if they take a risk. I care that the concept is stupid and bad. How many Batman shows with no Batman are they going to make before they realize that isn't what people want?

Isn't the whole point to get people to watch and enjoy it? Unless you think this angsty juvenile mess that we see in this trailer is supposed to be some sort of artistic statement?

[Peelee]

I, too, can make canned statements that misrepresent other people's points to make myself feel smug.

I don't care if they take a risk. I care that the concept is stupid and bad. How many Batman shows with no Batman are they going to make before they realize that isn't what people want?

You, I assume, are taking the mantle of "the people"?

[Anteros]

You, I assume, are taking the mantle of "the people"?

It's been a near universal complaint with all of these shows. Gotham, Supergirl, etc. Stop being obtuse.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Anteros
Stop being obtuse.

Dial it down a little. You can make your point without being insulting.

Originally Posted by Peelee
I, too, hate when networks take risks.

I can see your point...but the thing is, I don't see this as a risk at all. This looks very, very safe.

As already mentioned, the CW is aiming for a younger demographic, so this will look edgy and cool while appealing to the socially progressive. It's a spinoff of a well-known property, and as mentioned there have been several other shows along similar lines.

So I'm not seeing any risk whatsoever. Same city, same tone, same costume (with a few adjustments) and even the same name of a supporting character. It's so risk-free it's boring, because there's no new concept being developed. Sure, it's a female superhero lead, but after Captain Marvel that's hardly impressive. I'm not sure what this really brings, other than biff-sock-pow with an abundance of Girl Power moments.

.

[2D8HP]

Link to the trailer. Haven't had a chance to watch it yet, We've had a customer in pretty frequently so far.

That looked fun!

Thanks @Peelee!

Speaking in memes:

Child: look it's batman!
Batwoman: it's MA'AM!!!!

also: looks pretty meh, rather'd watch Sonic.

also also: that's not Barbara Gordon, right?

Batwoman (introduced 1956) and Batgirl (Batwomen's neice, introduced 1961)

preceded the Barbara Gordon Bat-Girl (introduced 1964)

20 years ago it would have been groundbreaking.

Today, meh.

That said, I can watch Supergirl when the kids are home so I'll give this a try.

20 years ago?

Why?

We already had the Wonder Women television show (I watched it along with The Incredible Hulk, Logan's Run, and The Planet of the Apes T.V.shows back in the '70's).

Police Women (staring Angie Dickinson) which ran from 1974 to 1978 [I]could be considers more "groundbreaking"except
for The Avengers which had "action heroines" starting in 1963 (first with Honor Blackman as "Dr. Cathy Gale", and then Diana Rigg as "Mrs Emma Peel", which were AWESOME and still being re-run in the '70's).

[Ramza00]

Batwoman: I need you, a man, who designed this suit and built it for a man who defended this city, to redesign this suit for me, a woman.

Also Batwoman, minutes later: I won't let a man take credit for a woman's work.

Spoiler: MFW

Show

Only [censored] Newspaper people can use that gif. Said newspaper people must also be upper management. If you are not those then you are mighty full of your own BS of what other people are and are not allowed to say.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I don't care if they take a risk. I care that the concept is stupid and bad. How many Batman shows with no Batman are they going to make before they realize that isn't what people want?

Given how long Gotham ran as one of the higher rated shows on FOX, I don't see how you can claim that wasn't what people wanted. Ditto Arrow's run as a Batman show with no Batman.

Maybe it's just that some people like different things than other people, and the networks want their attention as well.

[Ramza00]

Don't really have any knowledge of or attachment to the character, but I like what I see. Ruby Rose works really well in the role, I love that attitude. Production looks pretty strong as well.

Skips the 1950s and 1960s character which is completely separate.

Talks about Katherine "Kate" Kane which is introduced about 2006.

Spoiler: Quick Summary

Show

Katherine "Kate" Kane is a cousin to Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne mother maiden name is Kane and both of them Kane and Wayne are rich socialites.

But the wealth is not really the story about Kate Kane and what makes her special (more on that.) Kate had an identical twin sister Beth and during Kate and Beth's 12 year old birthday their mom took them out and all 3 were kidnapped. Kate's father is a Colonel in the Military and tried to rescue them and only Kate Kane survived. Kate and her dad Jacob "Jake" Kane both have issues / ptsd due to these events, Kate is all that he has in this life anymore besides his work.

Kate Kane is a military brat and after this traumatic event goes to West Point. She gets kicked out for she refuses to lie and her supervisor asks if she is gay (this was the 00s remember DADT was still on the books back then.) So Kate Kane gets kicked out of the military and is kind of lost and adrift, while still pursuing college.

During one night partying she gets mugged and during the mugging she defended herself and Batman shows up to the scene. Kate then steals military equipment from her father's base to fight crime. Eventually her father Jake finds out and does a 2 year dedicating training with her for he does not want to lose his only daughter.

Batwoman shows up in Gotham again and Batman does not know her identity.

----

Oh yeah one of the important plot characters of Batwoman is Renee Montoya a police officer who pulled over Kate when Kate was suffering depression for getting kicked out of the Military. Kate and Renee eventually begin dating years later.

Renee if you do not remember is the female cop in the Batman The Animated Series in the 90s, partner to the Batman skeptic Harvey Bullock.



(Skips explaining more Renee stuff for she is her own character in her own right in Batman in the 00s and 10s and spoilers.)

-----

In 2016 DC did a Batman animated movie Bad Blood, which is in turn a sequel to 2014 Son of Batman animated movie and 2015 Batman and Robin animated movie. The first 2 movies of this trilogy are really bad but Bad Blood is not half bad (not good / great.) In Bad Blood, Batman disappears so **** Grayson and Damian Wayne / Robin have to pretend to be Batman. Meanwhile 2 other Batmans figures show up and thus we are introduced to Kate Kane. This animated movie deviates somewhat from the comics but is mostly loyal besides some minor changes.

Edit: Luke Fox ^{(Black Guy who knows about the Batcave in the Batwoman trailer)} is also in Batman Bad Blood, but I guarantee they are going to change lots about Luke Fox vs Batman Bad Blood. Furthermore Batman Bad Blood is different than his 2011 comics.