Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

[Anarion]

I slightly disagree! Ultimately, it would have to work something like a stock market, where the aggregate influence of a lot of agents does create large trends. The only challenge is finding a way to make those trends visible, which Blizzard could totally do: they just add the Innkeeper giving you up-to-date stats on class pick rates or other trends.

That...is actually a really good idea! I would totally play that.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

That said, Gandariel's point RE: colors vs classes is a lot more problematic, because of how class cards are hard-locked in deck construction. Although it'd maybe be fun to have a "Brawl"-style draft where you could include cards from multiple classes in your deck.

[Hamste]

So disguised toast looked at the Patches stats (700000 games rank 10 and above). 46% of the time your opponent will bring out Patches and 71% of games had Patches appear in them.

[Gandariel]

That said, Gandariel's point RE: colors vs classes is a lot more problematic, because of how class cards are hard-locked in deck construction. Although it'd maybe be fun to have a "Brawl"-style draft where you could include cards from multiple classes in your deck.

I actually like Anarion's proposal.

You pick a class, then draft in a pool with all the other members of your class, and the packs you open only have neutrals and your class's class cards.

This makes the whole process much simpler, although it does remove the fun factor of "choosing your color as you go"

My own proposal, which keeps this aspect, is "open 10 packs of only class cards (all classes), then open 6 packs of only Neutral cards)

You're guaranteed to have a deck at the end, and you keep the fun aspect of choosing your class on the fly.

[thirsting]

Spoiler: Two awesomely lucky brawl combos

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Combo#1:
Blingtron 3000, Captain Greenskin and Harrison Jones.
(Got Gladiator's Longbow from the Blingtron, so was able to buff it with Greenskin and clear several enemy minions without any damage to my own face, and could destroy enemy weapon and draw with H.J..)

Combo#2:
Finja, the Flying Star and Old Murk-Eye.
(Opponent played Loremaster Cho and Nat Pagle AFTER seeing Finja. Hello free charging Murk-eyes getting attack bonuses from each other and Finjas, to the face)

[Kish]

An unexpectedly good brawl combination was Gelbin Mekkatorque and Mimiron's Head.

Since the bots Mekkatorque summoned (the +1/+1 to one random minion each turn, and the heal a random damaged creature each turn) were as likely to aid my opponent as me, they seemingly didn't see any reason to kill them rather than targeting the Mekkatorques themselves and my face, even after I played Mimiron's Head. I guess they didn't notice the "hey, these are all mechs" thing.

[Gandariel]

Blah blah it's just rank 10, blah blah just a winning streak, blah blah.

But hey, Hunter is pretty fun!
This is the list i'm using and having pretty good success with:

Spoiler: List

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Thoughts:

Dispatch Kodo and Rat Pack are not that OP.

Rat Pack is obviously solid, but the Kodo is really... average.

Running Barnes+Rag because it's basically cheating, and i run a lot of good deathrattles anyways.

No Call of the wild because 1) i think the curve is fine as is, and 2) i disenchanted my 2 copies when it was nerfed and haven't crafted them again.

Tundra Rhino is absolute star, considering getting the second copy in.

Powershot is.. well for some reason i never draw it, the one time i had it it was useful.

Best moment was against a Warlock:
I distinctly recall Day9 once asking for a spell called "Twisting nether Twice" for 9 mana.

Spoiler

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Sample size is sample size, but i've won most of my aggro games in a very convincing fashion.
Struggled a bit more against Reno decks, where it's always a matter of card draw RNG.

[Thialfi]

Journey to Un'Goro announced!

http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/2274-j...next-expansion

I wonder if they will reprint an Elise Starseeker for the set since she features so prominently.

That priest legendary spell has the potential to be amazing if they print several more early game deathrattle minions to keep aggro at bay.

I like that the shaman spell is for control shaman only. They don't need any more aggro tools.

The adapt mechanic has a lot of potential. I like it even if the creature they put there is only okay.

Pyros seems to be just okay as legends go. We need some more copy deathrattles shenanigans.

[Hamste]

Quests are always in your opening hand which is interesting.

[thirsting]

Ooh, those Quest-Reward cards look interesting. Legendary spells that always appear in your opening hand. I'm assuming/hoping every class gets one..

[Kish]

Going by the example, they'll push each class toward a particular type of deck (Priest toward a Deathrattle deck, for example).

Also guessing they all cost 1 mana, and the intention is something like "you take your turn 1 to start your class quest."

[thirsting]

Random quasi-rant: Really happy they call it "Adapt" and not "Evolve" or something... that always bugged me in SC2 (and plenty of other games). It's not evolution if a single creature morphs into something else, dammit! *elderlypersoncaneshake*

[Anarion]

Interesting, I like the announced cards shown so far, and quests seem pretty cool. I really like that they add a certain amount of consistency to the game to make up for what appears to be even more "pick 3" randomness. On that note, I'm not a big fan of adapt. It's going to be great on offense since many options will be good, and probably terrible on defense where you play it desperately hoping for a taunt and instead die with a big minion on board that has windfury or something silly like that.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Looks interesting. Retroactively making Elementals a tribe, quests, Discovering card text.

Dinosaurs are also cool.

[Destro_Yersul]

Hot damn, that priest quest. Summoning 7 deathrattles isn't that hard, synergises with resurrect stuff, and gives you a 5 mana 8/8 taunt with battlecry: your life total is now 40.

The mage legendary is a cool design, but probably not super good, since it's just a big thing. Adapt also seems neat and powerful.

[Anarion]

The mage legendary is a cool design, but probably not super good, since it's just a big thing.

I think you're underestimating the value of card advantage on the mage legendary. That one card is 3 cards. A 2/2, a 6/6, and a 10/10. If you play it early, it trades (especially with the help of fireblast), then trades with something bigger in the midgame, and then provides a threat that has to be answered if you're able to stabilize the board. That either opens up space in deck construction for more defensive cards or means that you can stack threats to try and overwhelm their removal.

[moossabi]

I think you're underestimating the value of card advantage on the mage legendary. That one card is 3 cards. A 2/2, a 6/6, and a 10/10. If you play it early, it trades (especially with the help of fireblast), then trades with something bigger in the midgame, and then provides a threat that has to be answered if you're able to stabilize the board. That either opens up space in deck construction for more defensive cards or means that you can stack threats to try and overwhelm their removal.

It's still terrible since you still have to play each card. The first body gets outclassed by River Crocolisk, the second one gets outclassed by Boulderfist Ogre, and the third is identical to Faceless Behemoth, which is not played anywhere except in a bad arena draft. It has potential if the later two bodies had cost reduction, but as-is I think it'll sit alongside Sargent Sally in terms of playability.

The others look interesting, Adapt seems like a cool idea but the minion they're showing off is rather underwhelming.

Volcano is good because it kills Shaman's board (this is how I grade most cards, 'how much does it murder Shaman?')
(honestly it seems playable but not overly so, it kills your own board as well)

The Priest quest looks like it will be very fun to mess people up with and I look forward to building my wild N'zoth amalgamation to maybe finally break out of double-digit ranks. (EDIT: Also getting 40 health the Ragnaros hero)

[PsyBomb]

Alright! New cards!

Spoiler: Volcano

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Shaman Rare Spell. 5 mana, Overload 2. Deal 15 (!) damage randomly split among all minions. The first reveal is a blatant message that Shaman needs to cool down on the whole aggro thing. Volcano is a very potent catch-up tool, especially if your own board got wrecked. Better than Felfire Potion against a field of 3 enemies, or if one happens to have 6+ health

Spoiler: Pyros

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Mage Legendary Minion (Elemental). 2/2 for 2, Deathrattle adds a 6/6 for 6 to hand, which itself has Deathrattle to add a 10/10 for 10 to hand. While cool, I'm not a fan, pending Elemental support. None of the incarnations are particularly good, just stuff to do if your turn would float mana otherwise, which means a waste of a card.

Spoiler: Verdant Longneck

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Common Druid Minion (Beast). 5/4 for 5, Battlecry:Adapt. Here's an interesting one. The Adapt is stated to be a Discover for one of ten effects. The six revealed are Divine Shield, Taunt, +3 attack, Shroud, WINDFURY, and a Deathrattle to summon two 1/1s. You have right about a 30% chance of hitting what you need if you're looking for one particular thing... but that goes to 53% if two are appropriate, such as just wanting a threat and wanting either attack or windfury. I'm intrigued, and the Beast tag is important here.

Spoiler: Awaken the Makers

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1 Mana Legendary Priest Quest. Condition: summon 7 Deathrattle minions. Reward: Amara, Warden of Hope, who is an 8/8 Taunt for 5 that sets your life to 40 (!). Looks like they REALLY wanted Reno Priest to continue being a bing. Quests always start in your hand. The problem is summoning 7 Deathrattle minions quickly, but I suspect strongly that there are enough solid ones to make do. The reward is crazy strong, though unlike Reno it is unlikely in the extreme to be playable on 6.

[Anarion]

It's still terrible since you still have to play each card. The first body gets outclassed by River Crocolisk, the second one gets outclassed by Boulderfist Ogre, and the third is identical to Faceless Behemoth, which is not played anywhere except in a bad arena draft. It has potential if the later two bodies had cost reduction, but as-is I think it'll sit alongside Sargent Sally in terms of playability.

If crocolisk and ogre are played, then the card won't be that great, it's true. But they're often not. There are a lot of 2 health minions floating around, and if the card does get positive trades, it will be incredibly strong. People play Loot Hoarder all the time, which has worse stats and is draw 1 card. This is 2/2 draw a specific average card, which itself is 6/6 draw a powerful but overly expensive card. I'm not saying the card will be an all star because that sort of slow card advantage being good depends heavily on how fast the rest of the environment is. But if there's a control deck that can effectively play lots of 1 for 1 removal and stall out the game, that mage legend is going to be an all star.

You also shouldn't compare it directly to something like Behemoth. Faceless behemoth is not played because you have to spend a turn drawing faceless behemoth, which is awful. But if there were a faceless behemoth that just sat around in your hand for a moment when you're not under too much pressure, then that would be a great card.

The others look interesting, Adapt seems like a cool idea but the minion they're showing off is rather underwhelming.

I'd guess that the adapt minion shown is excellent. It has efficient stats for 1 mana less than its cost and all the things listed for adapt are worth at least 1 mana. Plus, you get to pick which one is most appropriate so unlike playing a divine shield minion, or a taunt minion, you'll get flexibility to maximize value. The downside is that if you need something very specific, you might not get it. But if your board position is good overall, you'll get a lot of value out of it.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I think Volcano is meant to be played ideally when you have a less valuable board or no minions at all. It actually looks pretty flexible in that regard. If the enemy drops a beefier minion that would barely be scratched by your other board clears, Volcano will do a better job of damaging it. It's not an ideal use of a 5 mana overload (2), but at least the option is there.

[PsyBomb]

I think Volcano is meant to be played ideally when you have a less valuable board or no minions at all. It actually looks pretty flexible in that regard. If the enemy drops a beefier minion that would barely be scratched by your other board clears, Volcano will do a better job of damaging it. It's not an ideal use of a 5 mana overload (2), but at least the option is there.

I half-agree. The highest default health of any minion in the game is 12, which means this is effectively an Assassinate if they drop a Ysera or Maly without immediately killing you. It's very obviously a come-from-behind card, meant to wipe swarms or a couple of hard targets off the board after suiciding your own dudes. Works on Shroud, as well.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Spoiler: Expansion

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I'm pretty excited to see what other quests there are. It strikes me as exactly the kind of card I both want to play against and with and I think it might be my favorite revealed part of this set so far. Other than that adopt looks all right, but not super exciting, and I'm hoping there'll be a good chance for some lovely elemental tribal.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

The mage legendary looks like it might be aiming for a few things. They might be teasing Deathrattle Mage (N'zoth is still around, hey). It could be a card meant for Kazakus/Solia decks. I just don't think it's quite good enough to be tossed into any random deck. It has immense potential value (hello Polymorph, silence, etc) from a single card, but is questionable in terms of tempo and mana use.

I am excited for Quests. Ever since Malchezaar and Patches I've been looking forward to more cards that bend the usual rules for building decks and drawing cards. The Priest quest has a massive payout, but requires a specific type of deck (minus Sylvanas in Standard), and we're yet to see if the other classes get comparable rewards.

[Zevox]

Don't have time to talk about everything, but about the Mage legendary: it looks pretty bad to me. Yes, it's theroetically a value card - three minions in one. Two problems: it's extremely slow, to a point that I can't see it working without some Reno-level stalling power, and every part of it is just an understated vanilla minion when it comes down. Each piece of it is a bad card in its own right: a 2/2 for 2, a 6/6 for 6, and a 10/10 for 10. They do nothing when they initially come down, they don't stand up to similarly-priced cards - their only advantage is that they're all created by just one card. But even that advantage takes so long to get used, and can be minimized just by getting taken out in favorable ways by more individually valuable cards of those costs, or disrupted entirely by the likes of hex or silence.

I'd compare it to something like Sneed's Old Shredder: multiple bodies from a single card that look theoretically valuable, but in practice suffered from practical issues that kept it from ever seeing real play. I expect a similar fate for that card.

[Joran]

I'd compare it to something like Sneed's Old Shredder: multiple bodies from a single card that look theoretically valuable, but in practice suffered from practical issues that kept it from ever seeing real play. I expect a similar fate for that card.

Sneed's at least saw play back when the Legendary pool wasn't as diluted by low legendaries as it is now; the benefit of Sneed's is that you also get the deathrattle effect immediately so the opponent needs to be able to clear both the Sneed's and whatever it summons, while a 6 mana for 6/6 and a 10 mana for 10/10 vanilla are too slow to be any good.

Sneed's and Paletress now have too high a probability of low rolling something like Patches or Shifter Zerus for them to be consistently good.

One of the better highlights with Sneed's in pro play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DuxC3jXAoY (warning loud)

[Destro_Yersul]

I think you're underestimating the value of card advantage on the mage legendary. That one card is 3 cards. A 2/2, a 6/6, and a 10/10. If you play it early, it trades (especially with the help of fireblast), then trades with something bigger in the midgame, and then provides a threat that has to be answered if you're able to stabilize the board. That either opens up space in deck construction for more defensive cards or means that you can stack threats to try and overwhelm their removal.

I'm not convinced. The card is incredibly poor on tempo, since none of the pieces do anything when they land. It's card advantage sure, but those cards do nothing if you're dead before you can play them. You'd need some pretty heavy stall to make it remotely viable.

People play Loot Hoarder all the time, which has worse stats and is draw 1 card. This is 2/2 draw a specific average card, which itself is 6/6 draw a powerful but overly expensive card.

People generally play loot hoarder to cycle for combo pieces. This can't do that.

[Gandariel]

I'll echo some of the other posters.

Expansion looks cool, the mage legendary looks weak (I was expecting the final one to have some sort of cool battle cry)

Volcano also looks bad. Shaman already has 3 better aoe spells.

The new Druid card looks... I'll say "average". Not constructed worthy (Druid of the claw already does the same, and already offers the only 2 things you'll really need).

Priest legend is cool, obviously can't say exactly.
Priest decks aren't exactly minion heavy, and unless they print a LOT of new deathrattle priest stuff I don't think I'd ever play 7 deathrattles before turn ...12?

Also, and I'm really not the one to usually point out this kind of details, I'm a bit torn on the theme of the expansion:

Why do the themes "dinosaurs", "wild elemental magic", and "quest" fit together?

[otakuryoga]

hellooooooooooo N'Zoth Priest!
is nzoth still standard come year of mammoth?
or is priest going wild?

[Mando Knight]

hellooooooooooo N'Zoth Priest!
is nzoth still standard come year of mammoth?
or is priest going wild?

Whispers of the Old Gods (and therefore N'Zoth) heralded the start of the Year of the Kraken, and thus will still be in Standard for Year of the Mammoth. Blackrock Mountain, The Grand Tournament, and League of Explorers are all rotating out.

[Seerow]

Yeah definitely looking forward to N'zoth Priest making a comeback. The Volcano makes me sad that Patron is rotating out. Patron Shaman sounds like it may be fun to toy with in Wild.