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2012-11-18, 12:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
First, to my players: no. Just no.
So, I have a couple questions about bluffing, one each for a PC and NPC in my campaign. Oddly enough (and I didn't plan this) they're both beguilers:
1. The NPC beguiler is a running villain whose original cover was blown, and he's developing a new cover identity as a druid. Is there any conceivable way he could bluff an actual druid into thinking he's one of them? He'd need at least a few words of Druidic, but is that stretching Bluff a little too far?.
2. The PC beguiler is an elf native to the Moonshaes, where arcane casters aren't always welcome, so he passes himself off as a bard. (Not as contradictory as it seems, since bards are lionized in the Moonshaes.) Can he use a Bluff check instead of a Perform check, maybe helped along by Ghost Sound? And could one Bluff check cover an entire evening's performance, if he really had to?
.Last edited by Palanan; 2012-11-18 at 12:25 AM.
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2012-11-18, 12:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
1: only so long as he can avoid the very easy to screw him over with "Ok, so become a Wolf"
2: Yes, he canMy Homebrew: found here.
When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes
PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.
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2012-11-18, 12:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
He could bluff a Druid into believing he is a fellow Druid, but not by speaking Druidic. It's a secret language know only by Druids, so without being one there is conceivable way of the beguiler knowing the language. I don't think Druids instantly began speaking Druidic when they encounter another druid, I always imagined it being only spoken during the most sacred of rituals. Druids also have a high wisdom score, so his lies would need to be well crafted.
He is a beguiler using any of his image spells can make for a perfectly suited performance.Last edited by Jungian; 2012-11-18 at 12:36 AM.
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2012-11-18, 03:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
Good to hear the Beguiler survived. I was rooting for him
1a. "Listen, it's been a rough day. I blew through all my Wildshapes and some moron strapped a breastplate to me so I can't use my powers till I get an Atonement".
1b. "I traded magic for wilderness lore" (pretend as though he took ACFs to trade out his magic-stuff).
2. Bards are arcane casters . Passing as a Bard won't help there.Last edited by Slipperychicken; 2012-11-18 at 03:11 AM.
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2012-11-18, 04:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- London, EU
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Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
If the Druid is wise then he might be caught out
- He doesn't speak Druidic, as has been pointed out.
- If he casts any spells then a Spellcraft check might tell the Druid that he cast a an arcane spell.
- He might make some ideological gaff.
- The Druid will probably have Woodland Stride and Trackless Step, so this might give him away if he meets the Druid in the forest.
Everything else is down to the Bluff roll.Last edited by nedz; 2012-11-18 at 10:32 AM.
π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
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2012-11-18, 09:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
Originally Posted by Slipperychicken
Good to hear the Beguiler survived. I was rooting for him.
Not only that, but they tried to cast Charm Person on him, to make him more amenable to going elsewhere. He made his save and shrugged it off...but being a slippery one, he fooled them into thinking he'd been charmed, and then immediately set about following them.
Originally Posted by Slipperychicken
Bards are arcane casters. Passing as a Bard won't help there.
Also, your "1a" is hilarious. That's definitely the line he'll be taking. Druids of Mielikki are common on the mainland, but the druids in the Moonshaes are very traditional. ("You touched metal?! --To the sweat lodge with you!")
Originally Posted by Jungian
I don't think Druids instantly began speaking Druidic when they encounter another druid, I always imagined it being only spoken during the most sacred of rituals.
The other druid would give him a greeting in Druidic, and the beguiler might repeat it and try to bluff his way through, but after that he'd be on thin ice indeed. The "wounded bird" approach is probably best (out of spells, out of wildshapes, tricked into wearing metal, etc.) but he'd need a reeeeeeeally good reason not to be explaining all this in Druidic.
My only hope here is that, wisdom or no, druids usually don't put a lot of effort into Sense Motive. The beguiler, meanwhile, has a +15 Bluff mod, so he might just get lucky.
.
.Last edited by Palanan; 2012-11-18 at 09:41 AM.
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2012-11-18, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
Perhaps, rather than "joining" a official circle, he "became" a druid naturally. That is he "learned" his powers and abilities from nature itself and therefore doesn't know Druidic. After all, what use does nature have with language.
See when a tree falls in the forest, and there's no one there to hear it, you can bet we've bought the vinyl.
-Snow White
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2012-11-18, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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2012-11-18, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- London, EU
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Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
Originally Posted by SRDOriginally Posted by SRDπ = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
Completely Dysfunctional Handbook
Warped Druid Handbook
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2012-11-18, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
Assuming that you are allowing Knowledge Checks to identify other druids, all it comes down to is a simple checklist to break any bluff asto whether you can perform certain classes. Mundanes are easy (you can just cherrypick classes to lie about. just claim to be a Rogue), Arcanes slightly less, while Divines are near impossible as a result of their class restrictions.
My Homebrew: found here.
When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes
PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.
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2012-11-18, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
Hardly."Whether white, black, or purple, we're all God's Children." "What about red?"
"Whether it is a racial tongue or regional dialect" does nothing to narrow the "language of any intelligent creature," as the phrasing is not exclusive. If it read "As long as it is a racial tongue or regional dialect," then the fact that druidic was a secret language would matter, because that is exclusive phrasing. If it left out the "language of any intelligent creature" you could then say that "racial tongue or regional dialect" was a comprehensive list. But, that phrase is there, so you can't.
Now, if you wish to argue that druids are not intelligent... It is a dump stat for them, after all :DLast edited by Deophaun; 2012-11-18 at 12:00 PM.
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2012-11-18, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
Originally Posted by Deophaun
Tounges. Obstacle removed.
However, he does have Detect Thoughts and Comprehend Languages, and between the two of those he might just squeak by. He has the Conceal Spellcasting skill trick, so he might put one over on the druid.
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2012-11-18, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- London, EU
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Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
Completely Dysfunctional Handbook
Warped Druid Handbook
Avatar by Caravaggio
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2012-11-18, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
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Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
Advanced learning and some houseruling would work fine there. It's supposed to be limited to Ill\Ench spells, but i do not see why a Divination spell like that would break the game.
Or by all means, UMD + Tongues wand or even a Tongues potion?
Cheap stuff that would be plausible and doable."If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance."
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2012-11-18, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
Well, nice in theory, but at the moment the beguiler is in a small fishing town on a backwater island where even a first-level scroll would be a huge wondrous deal. A wand of Tongues would be worth more than every fishing-boat in the harbor, and probably most of the homes as well.
And as it happens, the beguiler has been...relieved of his gadgets, magic items and other gear, courtesy of the PCs, so all he's got are his quick wits, his smooth tongue, and the spells he woke up with.
He's been having a pretty tough week, but he will get that halfling. Somehow, some day, he'll get that halfling.
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2012-11-18, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
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- Clockwork Nirvana
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Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
If you can find a way to understand Druidic (fairly easy with magic), they you simply need a reason not to speak it.
A good option here is for the NPC to simply pass as mute. Then you're only tripped up by writing.
I would suggest finding a some way to communicate without speaking.
My preference would be to have custom magic item made and learn Drow Sign language.
Continuous ring of Nystul's Magical Aura & Comprehend Languages is safely under 10k gold (what with the 1st level spells and all).
EDIT, given the limited item availability post:
If you can pass the Comprehend Languages without the Magical Aura, Comprehend Languages is actually on your list.Last edited by Hecuba; 2012-11-18 at 03:58 PM.
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2012-11-18, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
My Homebrew: found here.
When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes
PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.
Drow avatar @ myself
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2012-11-18, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
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- Clockwork Nirvana
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Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
Last edited by Hecuba; 2012-11-18 at 04:36 PM.
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2012-11-18, 04:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- London, EU
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Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
Completely Dysfunctional Handbook
Warped Druid Handbook
Avatar by Caravaggio
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2012-11-18, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
My Homebrew: found here.
When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes
PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.
Drow avatar @ myself
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2012-11-18, 05:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Clockwork Nirvana
- Gender
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2012-11-18, 05:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
Druidic certainly has a written form in my game, and the beguiler would have even less of a chance at faking it than the spoken language.
Probably the best he can manage is to use a combination of Comprehend Languages and Detect Thoughts to guess at the meaning of certain basic words--both what the druid is speaking, and what the druid might expect to hear in reply--and then try bluffing for all he's worth to survive a basic conversation.
Charm Person, if he succeeds, might at least let the druid be more charitable about the beguiler's lapses in the language. ("Poor fellow, being bashed on the head with a metal shield certainly affected his declensions of the plural nominative....") With a good enough Bluff check, a little creative slurring might work wonders.
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2012-11-18, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Bluff, Bluff, Bluff to the Right and Left
My Homebrew: found here.
When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes
PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.
Drow avatar @ myself