(SPOILER) I know why Sabine is Haley's opposite.

[Hunter_Rose]

Haley has no physical characteristics of any Planetouched. Then again, it's hard to see any useful things that may be the typical physical appearance of a Planetouched in a stick figure comic.

Actually she has that errant strand of hair that graces her face. I think that Haily is the only person in the comic that has displayed this trait, and she has displayed this trait since adolesence. I know this is a very subtle stretch, but if you look at Haily/Sabine as polar opposites, Sabine is a blatant fiend where as Haily is someone that is subtley different from the rest of the OOTS crew, and morally opposite to Sabine. This could also be a direction the Giant is going in.

[Jazzvader]

Besides, everyone has a latent bisexual side. Some just aren't latent.

This is so true. I tried explaining that to my friend and he said, "So you're a little bit gay." I replied "Everyone is a little." But he couldn't get over that fact.

[Shadow of the Sun]

That Ninja/Pirate thing always annoyed me- it was the Samurai who were honour bound, not the Ninja.

[Demented]

This is so true. I tried explaining that to my friend and he said, "So you're a little bit gay." I replied "Everyone is a little." But he couldn't get over that fact.

Put it another way:
There's a little part of every one of us that doesn't care exactly what we're humping.

Judging by the way "Half-" templates fly around, I suspect that's doubly true in DnD.

[Bluelantern]

There's a little part of every one of us that doesn't care exactly what we're humping.

Dude, you are my idol

seriously, best true ever, I going to put in my sig!

[Silverlocke980]

Back on topic from bizarre-but-bizarrely-related side issues regarding bisexuality, amorality between races, and the war between the well-armed and the well-hidden....

I've heard the theory that Sabine is open with her relationship while Haley is not, but I can't help but think there must be more to it. Maybe it's just because my hunt for counterstereotypes is rather fierce- I like them a lot, so I see if I can find them where I go.

As it stands, though, one person on these message boards really grabbed my attention: Khayank. Khayank's theory of Haley's counterstereotype bloody rocks, and has now gained acceptance as a Awesome Female Theory. I like female characters in games- most male characters are done to death, so women are like a breeze of fresh air.

(And I have a girlfriend so no, I don't salivate over Dead or Alive! Real women are better!)

Glad to see my first thread go to three pages! What an acheivement.

Next, to acheive ten pages, I'll post my theory that the Monster in the Darkness is V's mate, see where that goes. ;)

(How many people are going to post with responses to that and not realize it's a joke? I wonder...)

[Brettoe]

I've heard the theory that Sabine is open with her relationship while Haley is not, but I can't help but think there must be more to it.

Ahh....But know that Haley is now open in her relationship, but Sabine still is (I think)

[Corolinth]

There are a number of reasons why Sabine is Haley's evil opposite that don't require Haley to be something other than human.

Haley, while the sex-bomb of the Order, is fairly picky in her endeavors. Sabine is a skank that will jump in the sack with whoever happens to catch her fancy at the time. This difference is subtle, and likely to be lost on the younger crowd. Haley is an adult woman. She dates like an adult woman (with severe rejection issues). She may say and/or do things to make your toes curl, but in the end, your mother would be happy to see you bring a girl like Haley home. Your mother might cry herself to sleep at night if you went home with Sabine.


Haley is a basket-case, or was in the beginning. She's getting better. Sabine knows who and what she is, and she's comfortable with that. Sabine is a skank, she's evil, she sacrifices babies to the dark gods, but she's confident about it, and she likes to be who she is. Haley doesn't know who she is, and also wishes she were someone else. The difference here is self-esteem. Sabine has it, Haley doesn't. Now, Haley is getting better about that, and nobody (least of all Giant) has ever said that the reasons behind being evil opposites had to be set in stone and unchanging. It's character development.

Sabine is dark-skinned, while Haley is fair-skinned. Black hair vs. red hair. Their overall appearance is similar, with different color schemes (sort of like Thog and Roy, or Elan and Nale).

Now for the semi-racial aspects of their opposition:

As a running gag, we don't know what type of fiend Sabine is (even though it's fairly obvious looking at the possibilities in the Monster Manual, despite debate to the contrary). Haley, on the other hand, is human according to the comics (she's mentioned bonus skill points for being human), but Giant has managed to sow enough confusion about it that nearly everyone has their own wild theory.

Haley gets the human bonus feat and skill points. That's clearly documented in On the Origin of PCs. Haley can not be an aasimar, and she can not be a tiefling. Those are separate races, not templates. She might have a half-* template, but that's exceedingly unlikely as those have much too great a level adjustment. Since she's never used any of the special abilities from those templates, she'd be functioning as a PC of approximately 2/3 the level of the rest of the Order. With a half-* template, a Haley balanced around the level of the rest of the Order, but not using any of her inborn abilities, would have pitiful BAB and skill modifiers by comparison. Haley has shown herself far more competent than that. If she has any template at all, it's a homebrew Giant special.

[Imgran]

Elan: Happy go lucky class-specialist bard with incredible luck
Nale: Scheming, cynical multiclasser with no luck at all

Roy: Highly intelligent fighter and graduate of the college student (remember, the abortive mindflayer digression, the mindflayer actually saw Roy's brain as the most appetizing, which was evidently the whole point of the digression)
Thog: Me swing big ax.

Vaarsuvious: Almost paralyzingly verbiose, but powerful and experienced
Zz'driti: Never wasted a single word
Kid: Needed to hit the books a bit longer before heading out into the real world.

Dorkan: Disciplined, patient, reverential team player, follows Thor protector of civilization, afraid of trees
Hilgya: Insists on doing what she wants all the time for any reason, follows Loki god of Mischief
Druid: He's a druid. He doesn't just love trees, he lives for trees.

Belkar and Yikyik: Actually these two were pretty much the same. The difference was that Belkar actually had more sense than to bite off more than he can chew against a fellow party member while Yikyik was completely unrestrained.

Belkar and Yokyok could have been interesting because Yokyok was trying to be a highly disciplined kobold fencer, as opposed to savage, undisciplined Belkar, but he was allowed to die and take the Inigo Montoya speil with him, which was probably all to the good because it was pretty much a throwaway gag (I'd love just once to see a deep, meaningful character at one point who was a kobold, but the life expectancy of ko's tends to be almost as short as their stature).