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2018-05-16, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
If Miko addresses Hinjo as "cousin" in Scar, but says in effect that "I have no family" in War & XPs - then it does show a change of outlook.
But if it's the case Hinjo describes Miko as cousin, but Miko never describes Hinjo as cousin - then a change of outlook is not necessarily mandated.
It would be like in some stepfamilies, where the stepparents are happy to use "daughter" or "son" for their stepchild, but the stepchild doesn't reciprocate - insisting on addressing their stepparent by name.Last edited by hamishspence; 2018-05-16 at 09:29 AM.
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2018-05-16, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
Nope. Miko calls him cousin right back at least twice.
It doesn't affect the plot directly... but it has some potential import to Miko's background motivations. Miko killing a defenceless old man who was recently lord of the city is not good. Miko killing her surrogate father is even worse. But Miko killing someone who used to be her surrogate father and then... disowned her?... would explain a lot. You can get a lot of bad blood between family members depending on how the estate is divided up.
But again, I don't really know what's going on there. I was hoping the author could elaborate.Give directly to the extreme poor.
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2018-05-16, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
Imean, you see all the motivation you need in the online comic. Miko is so sure of her own infallibility that she misreads everything in whatever light makes her right. Roy tricked Miko into killing Shojo. Roy tricked Shojo into saying the things that made Miko kill him. Roy and Shojo were in league together. All said within a minute. She reaches for any explanation she can so that she can believe she isn't wrong. The Twelve Gods themselves appear and personally remove your paladin powers? That was because of someone else's wrongdoing, not hers.
Just because you refuse to either acknowledge or accept that Miko has a crippling character flaw does not mean that she doesn't have a crippling character flaw. And if you want to continue trying to reason in a way for Miko to be the super special awesome nice person you want her to be while still staying true to her portrayal in the comic, then maybe start a thread devoted to that. We've already had one redtext saying that this thread is supposed to be about the book that's coming out. I'd very much like to not be slapped down with another.Last edited by Peelee; 2018-05-16 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Lord Torath is smarter than I.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2018-05-16, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
I could throw around accusations that certain readers are so certain of the author's infallibility that they engage in fabulous mental gymnastics to avoid admitting a plain textual contradiction, but... I have not done so, because I don't strictly know that's true. I will allow for the possibility that the author has genuinely given thought to how the petty-noble footsoldier with modest resources and no surviving kin might have evolved from the adoptive protegé princess in recent publication. If you have your own theories on that front, I'd be happy to hear them. But I will thank you not to impute motivated reasoning to my analysis where I can see abundant motivation behind yours.
Give directly to the extreme poor.
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2018-05-16, 12:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
The only contradiction that you can claim is that Miko was adopted by Shojo, yet claims no familial ties. Which, as has been pointed out, is not terribly unusual. Neither is murder committed by a family member, sad to say. I by no means subscribe to author infallibility - in fact, I fully disagree with some messages the author puts forth. That I accept what is in the text regarding a character is hardly mental gymnastics.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2018-05-16, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
OK, twice -
Spoiler"Cousin Hinjo? You should not be here." and "Cousin." when the two groups meet again.
It may be akin to Roy's calling a family friend "Uncle Myrtok" despite their not being related - he calls him "Uncle" but doesn't see him as family, Miko calls Hinjo Cousin, but may not see him as family.Last edited by hamishspence; 2018-05-21 at 01:40 PM. Reason: spoiler tagging info that might need spoiler tagging.
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2018-05-16, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
I'm inclined to think "we have no family" to "Hinjo is my cousin" does indicate a minor shift in the writing background.
I just don't think "three books ago, this character had the same background but how she viewed it was slightly different" is worth attaching any significance to. In How the Paladin Got His Scar and War and XPs alike, it's pretty evident that, in Miko's mind, =irritatingly lenient paladin who I outrank; whether the name she stuck on that concept was "Hinjo" or "Cousin Hinjo" made absolutely no difference to the way she acted toward him.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2018-05-16, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
My mother is the godmother of a girl whose mother she was friends with when I was a baby. I call her my cousin, and when I was younger I thought of her as a little like family. Now, if someone asked me if she was my relative, I would say “No.” But I still call her my cousin, for some reason.
Maybe there’s a somewhat similar relationship between Miko and Hinjo. I could see that.Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
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2018-05-16, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
For what I could understand, the whole "cousin x no family" debate is aimed at deducing if there's any blood relation (even if distant) beetween Miko and Shojo (and Hinjo). As far as we've seem until now, there's none (but I may be proved wrong).
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
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"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2018-05-17, 05:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
This isn't especially about blood ties. I mean, sure, it would be interesting/puzzling if there were some, but the main point is that early-strip Miko shows absolutely no sign of belonging to the royal family or even being particularly highly placed in azurite society outside of her authority in the guard.
Does anyone think that Miko, the ostensible overbearing narcissist who exploits every advantageous technicality, wouldn't be emphasising her ties to the ruling house at every possible opportunity? Because I sure don't.
Bear in mind this is a webcomic where one of the main protagonists was literally brain-damaged by the combination of one parent dying young and the other being overly paranoid. I consider this idea to be complete nonsense, but you can't just pretend that the details of a character's family environment are incidental to their development in OOTS. This is huge.Give directly to the extreme poor.
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2018-05-17, 06:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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2018-05-17, 06:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
It's an allusion to this:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0303.htmlMarut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2018-05-17, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
Your double negative phrases that poorly and presumptuously. It would be more straight-forward to say "I [L.C.] think Miko is an overbearing narcissist who exploits every advantageous technicality and therefore would be emphasising[sic] her ties to the ruling house at every possible opportunity. Doesn't everyone?"
And the obvious answer is "No". In my opinion she feels her mandate of being better than others comes from the Twelve Gods she was born under. Any supposed power from a human-made social system is meaningless in that view, similar to the national borders that she holds beneath her when she tracks down the OotS in the first place.
As for her 'cousin' status with Hinjo: First, once Hinjo joined the Sapphire guard he became a fellow soldier of righteousness - any non-blood relationship no longer mattered once she literally outranked him. Even blood cousins in the armed services don't generally say 'cousin' when on duty and she was always on duty. In the bonus strip she would know that Hinjo was already occupied; so even if she still thought of him as family she could still simply have meant "none of us has family available to eat with" without needing some deeper mental gymnastics.
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2018-05-18, 04:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
I always find it striking how many people give Miko flack over this, when it was Shojo who ordered her to go traipsing into other countries in the first place, despite believing that the Order were approximately innocent, and happily violated his own legal system several times over, despite swearing the same oaths. Personality goes a long way, it seems. But that's neither here nor there.
In any case, no, I don't think that Miko considered her power from a human-made social system to be meaningless. (Note, also, "when I turned 13, Lord Shojo chose me to become one of his Samurai." Not, "when I turned 13, Lord Shojo adopted me into his family/made me his ward/raised me to the peerage.") Shojo is only ever referred to as her lord or master, even when she's basically talking to herself or not exactly in full self-control. And Sapphire Guard membership never stopped Hinjo from calling his uncle his uncle.
If you want to argue that the Miko we mostly got is an unstable, overzealous, self-deluded termagant fanatic, go ahead. But that version is clearly not part of Shojo's family.
You know, in a way, I should thank the author. I always felt that Miko's development did her a disservice, but this is like she never even existed as a coherent textual entity. It's... almost a relief, really.Give directly to the extreme poor.
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2018-05-18, 06:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
Maybe move the discussion to the How The Paladin Got His Scar thread itself (possibly asking permission to revive it sine it's nearly a year since last post):
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...Scar-(SPOILERS!)
or just create a new "Retcons in OOTS - Miko as Shojo's adopted daughter" thread.
Though it's possible that commentary in the book will shed light on the reasoning behind The Giant's decision to make Miko Shojo's adopted daughter.Last edited by hamishspence; 2018-05-18 at 06:21 AM.
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2018-05-21, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
First, this is not that complicated:
Spoiler: How the Paladin Got His ScarMiko is not legally Shojo's daughter, but he did "adopt" her in the sense of taking her under his wing and mentoring her. As was mentioned in the main comic, she was only 13 at the time, so she would have been living under his roof rather than being on her own. As a result, both Miko and Hinjo were told to think of each other as cousins. As adults, they no longer see each other in that light, because they are not actually cousins and Miko's general behavior in the interim has already brought strain to that relationship. I'm sure they had a big falling out at some point, but that's not what the story was about so I didn't show it. And to be clear, I don't feel like I need to spell this out in the text just so that everyone can feel like all the dots connect.
Second, this is a thread for people to come looking for information about the book they want to buy. Please do not post unmarked spoilers for that book in this thread! I should not have to tell you this.
Third, Lacuna Caster, since this is the second time I've had to warn you about what this thread is for, don't post it in again, for any reason.Last edited by The Giant; 2018-05-21 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Slight tweak of wording
Rich Burlew
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2018-05-22, 04:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2005
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- Spain
Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
At first I read the title as "Book 1 of 2" and I was wondering what would the second book be. Pre-ordered, and I threw in a second copy of Book 2, hopefully with the full Haley-translations, hehe.
So, -1, 0, 1/2, D, and 1-5. I think I'm not missing anything (The coloring book, I know, but I'm not getting it for now). Speaking of this, maybe we are close to Book 6 ending now?The abilities of the Force: Control, Alter, Delete.
Zombie Apocalypse if and only if Cake.
My Little Dashie made me cry.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
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2018-05-22, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2014
Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
Doubt it. For one, too much foreshadowing hasn't come to a head yet (Durkon's mum & "family" haven't shown up in the present, the ex-Exarch was sent off to work on the Council just before the start of this fight, etc). For another, Book 5 ran #673-946 [274 strips] - as of this post (i.e., as of #1122), there are 176 strips from Book 6 on the website. While that doesn't mean there are exactly 98 strips to go, I doubt it would be ~two-thirds the length of the prior book, even if it wasn't quite as long.
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2018-05-29, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
Placed my order over the weekend. I can hardly wait! Thanks, Giant!
Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
My Spelljammer stuff (including an orbit tracker), 2E AD&D spreadsheet, and Vault of the Drow maps are available in my Dropbox. Feel free to use or not use it as you see fit!
Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season
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2018-06-01, 08:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
Check the page count though. We're approaching the (online) length of DSP, the longer of the two previous gateless books, and this book is already longer than NCftPB. And things are starting to come to a head: we've explicitly got Durkon's last memory-viewing, and we're in the middle of a battle that's been built up for a good two thirds of the book. My guess is, story-wise, we're somewhere around the explosion of the pyramid, if you want to make a comparison to BRitF. This is the beginning of what's likely to be a fairly long climax, with some resolution to follow that will feed into the final book. I wouldn't expect any more cutaways to Team Evil or anyone else, at least.
We also know that BRitF ran so long that the Giant would have preferred to split it into two books, so I doubt its length is anything to go by. At a guess, this book will probably be over around strip 1150-1160; certainly by the 1200s.Last edited by unbeliever536; 2018-06-01 at 08:46 PM.
Why should a man be scorned if, finding himself in prison, he tries to get out and go home? Or if, when he cannot do so, he thinks and talks about other topics than jailers and prison-walls?
Pokemon:
Spoiler
Friend Code: 4484-7979-9172
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2018-06-02, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
I would like to buy the book; at the same time, transoceanic shipping is a killing, and I already read most of the content by being a kickstarter backer. Since the next oots compilation can't take too long to be ready, I wanted to wait until then, and order both books at once, saving a bit on shipping.
My question is: do I have a guarantee that by the time I actually order the book, it will still be available in store?
EDIT: Or rather, I know I don't have a 100% guarantee, but how much can I count on it?Last edited by King of Nowhere; 2018-06-02 at 11:51 AM.
In memory of Evisceratus: he dreamed of a better world, but he lacked the class levels to make the dream come true.
Ridiculous monsters you won't take seriously even as they disembowel you
my take on the highly skilled professional: the specialized expert
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2018-06-08, 12:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
You can probably count on the PDF to be always available.
For the hardcopy, the current book is barely two-thirds ready. Adding the lag time between the publishing of this book's final online strip and the time when its first paperback is on sale, I think you're looking at a minimum of 6 months before you can put both in the same order. I can't tell if this book would stay on shelf at Ookoodook that long, but after 6 months you do have a >0% chance of finding it from a secondary or even tertiary distributor. There would be offers on Amazon, at the very least. Of course if the book is scarce at that time, secondary distributors can increase the price at their own distinction, regardless of the shipping cost.Last edited by M.A.D; 2018-06-08 at 12:36 AM.
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2018-06-09, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2014
Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
Oh, more than that. #945 (last strip of Book 5) went up 19 Feb 2014. BRITF was announced 20 Oct 2014. That's eight months *after the book was finished online*. Then you have to allow the fact that there's still more to go in Book 6...
If Book 6 is up for order before the start of 2020, I'll be shocked.
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2018-06-11, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
How do you say? is there a specific statement from rich about it? If not, then I would not trust mathematical extrapolations based on the lenght of previous books, simply because they are too erratic. the present arc seems like a climatic encounter to me, one that coulld end the book in a dozen strips or two. If I see that is not the case, then I can still order good deeds gone unpunished
In memory of Evisceratus: he dreamed of a better world, but he lacked the class levels to make the dream come true.
Ridiculous monsters you won't take seriously even as they disembowel you
my take on the highly skilled professional: the specialized expert
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2018-06-11, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2014
Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
It can't be, for one very simple reason: the Ex-Exarch was sent away to prepare the following encounter. If this was the climax, that wouldn't have happened.
(Also, we've yet to see Durkon's mum/etc in the present day after all the flashback setup, etc, etc...)
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2018-06-22, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
Q: Why are you using Gumroad instead of (insert name of other company)?
A: Because they charge the lowest commission, which means I could lower the price more. Plus, most other companies that offer a watermark service add it to every single page, which seemed like overkill to me. One page is enough.
Like, say, DriveThruRPG? I've used them forever (in Internet time). They do print-on-demand and PDF bundles all the time. I also never have any of the PDF problems either.Last edited by brionl; 2018-06-22 at 01:25 PM.
'F' is the fire that rains from the Sky
'U' for Uranium, BOMB!
'N' is for No Survivors...
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2018-06-22, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-06-23, 01:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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2018-06-24, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
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2018-06-27, 06:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New Prequel Book! Order of the Stick: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished (Book 1/2)
Well, the postage certainly goes down if you bundle books together, but there is also the incentive factor. If a deal offering 9 books together for X% off will induce people who take the deal to buy Y% more books, that at full price have a Z% profit margin, than they otherwise would have, whether the math works if it is offered depends on financial and marketing details I'm not privy to, but it's worth a shot.