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2009-01-01, 09:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
It's possible that Wanda was trying to "steal" the Arkenpliers, but I think it's just as plausible that she thinks she's about to croak, she pretty much wants to croak (Jillian being lost to her), and being croaked by a divine weapon is a boop of a way to go. To touch such a relic just once, even if it means...
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2009-01-01, 09:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-01-01, 10:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
Good to see a couple of updates in fairly quick sucession.
Who's thinking that Wanda knows something about the Arkenpliers that Ansome doesn't? The only useful thing they've discovered about them is that they can kill undead very easily... Maybe in the hands of a croakmancer they can boost or control them better, much like Stanley's hammer gives him a level of control over Dwagons. "Touch me with them" just seems a little too inviting.
As for Wanda loosing Jillian... Is it really Jillian she's talking about? We still don't know the full story behind why the Gobwin's rebelled and why Stanley attacked FAQ. What if it was orchestrated by Ansome? Who knows what that man may have done when he heard that a piker was made heir to Sailine IV.
I guess the Archeons can only defend and attack within the air-space since it's not their turn, but Ansome can evidently enter the ground and take his arken-pliers.
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2009-01-01, 10:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
Charlie's a nutter. I really, really want to know what the terms were because he's basically signed away ever getting the 'pliers and Parson by offering that contract. The archons could even see that the 'pliers were in plain reach of one of Parson's casters. I'm gradually losing interest as my suspension of disbelief slowly dwindles and dies. Casters easily being able to turn the tides of battle? Charlie, the ultimate businessman of Erfworld, signing away a potential warlord and artifact? The situation constantly rolling back into Ansom's tactically impaired control?
There's only so many times that the underdog can gain the advantage to our glee and the military giant can snatch it away again to our dread. How many times is this going to be done with this arc clearly coming so close to its end? You can't prolong this siege forever with constant plot protection of Ansom while trying to make Parson seem like the ultimate tactician.
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2009-01-01, 10:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
bah.
the last two pages are just exercises in frustration. definitely my least favourite.
here is to hoping the next ones will be better
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2009-01-01, 10:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Meraya, Siraaj
Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
Well yeah, Ansom is the "Dashing Hero" (or rather a subversion of one, turned into the antagonist by telling the story from Parson's point of view) and if we learn anything from television and the movies it's that our plucky hero will defeat the schemes of the evil mastermind through dumb luck/the power of the plot, and viewers will cheer. The exact same thing is happening here, just from a different perspective, and yet many readers are unhappy at it. It's an interesting case study in judging people's reactions based on who is cast as the protagonist.
What bothers me though is how quickly and frequently the fortunes of either side are reversed in this story, with one happening almost every comic since Ansom's turn started. Having this happen on daily basis is understandable when war is conducted in turns, but outside of that it hurts the stability of the narrative--people need time to digest. The klogs and out-of-combat dialogue help to build things up, but even with that the resolution happens very fast and almost always to the detriment of whoever had the advantage beforehand. I think longer fight scenes and scenes with minimal to no plot-advancing dialogue would help fill the gaps and keep the pacing steady.
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2009-01-01, 10:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
Are those metal golems? If they are then Sizemore is producing them really fast.
Anyway, it seems that the last stand will be in the tower since Sizemore just dug them a tunnel from courtyard to dungeons. Plus, to make a last stand in the dungeons Parson need do get down to dungeons and that's a lot of stairs. Last time it took him four hours to get from dungeons to the tower.Find a hole in the wall, even if you have to make one with your own head.
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2009-01-01, 10:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
She raised a legion of the dead to protect an otherwise doomed City against an army of Bandits led by a madman hellbent on destroying her side. Those troops in the tunnels weren't there by invitation.
And let's not forget the very simple fact that Wanda received an order and had no choice but to obey it.
Then let him fall. Let him rot in the oubliette or let his head decorate the City's Walls. Let Charlie be the villain if he's the only thing capable of making the RCC a threat. 'Cause you know what? Every time Ansom's pulled the Damsel Scrappy routine there have been other Warlords offering alternatives. Fine, without the Archons Parson would have hit the siege again, but that wouldn't have stopped Ansom from bringing his numbers to bear in the tunnels with no reason to surrender the initiative to Parson. And while Parson would have made things very painful, could he have done enough to stop them? Recollect that even the small number of Siege that were available to Ansom last turn were enough for Parson to consider an attack a no win situation, so if they found a way to protect even a small number... Charlie just shouldn't be needed.
Are you suggesting that Ansom did it? Possible I suppose if he had Jillian placed under a spell a long time ago and didn't know that Stanley knew about Faq.
Hint: Not the guys planning on plundering a City reduced to 'Helpless Barbarism'.
And murdering enemy wounded is generally frowned upon.
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2009-01-01, 10:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
We don't know what the contract says. For all we know, Ansom will have to turn over the arkenpliers to Charlie once GK is defeated or the contract is ended; since the 'pliers and Ansom would have been lost without Charlie, it's a deal Ansom would have no reason to refuse. The contract could specify also that Ansom must capture Parson and turn him over to Charlie, too.
I believe that the Archons couldn't pick up the 'pliers from the ground since they don't have any "move," unlike Ansom.
Frankly, the twist and turns are beginning to wear very thin, but I trust that all this folderol and rigamarole will have some purpose asides from repetitive titillation.Quo vadis?
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2009-01-01, 10:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
As opposed to the bad guys who bombed Dresden to smithereens? The question of whether the RCC has any moral standing in attacking Stanley's cities has been discussed in other threads.
Considering that the immensely powerful Wanda would be restored to full health on the next turn, killing her, or any other wounded enemy unit that cannot be captured or would not be useful if captured, strikes me as sound military doctrine in Erf.Last edited by DevilDan; 2009-01-01 at 11:04 PM.
Quo vadis?
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2009-01-01, 10:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
If I may:
Given the context, Wanda has in fact been hurt more here. Ansom doesn't care about Foot Soldier #6859 at all. He seems midly offended by the fact that they have been raised as undead, but given the way Erfworld works we don't really have any idea of how necromancy is viewed there.
Wanda's loss is a far more personal one than Ansom's, even Webinar wasn't that close. They're speaking about what has been taken from them, not what they have done in and of itself.Last edited by LordVader; 2009-01-01 at 10:47 PM.
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2009-01-01, 11:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
Everyone's believing that Wanda is referring to Jillian but look at Ansom's face in the 9th panel. It seems to be more of an expression of fear or great discomfort. I wouldn't think making moves on Jillian would warrant such an expression. Likely there's some big secret here and a huge twist. Something along the lines of perhaps it was Ansom who sacked Faq rather than Stanely.
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2009-01-01, 11:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
Irrelevant, Gobwin Knob wouldn't have been Stanley's City once he was dead. It would have been neutral, frozen in time, unable to take any action unless attacked and incapable of waging war. Containing hundreds of people who would have been a threat to no one. And Ansom was openly plotting to sack the City under those circumstances. No comparison you can make to waging war on Cities in our World can change that.
One word: Capture. She was trying to take him alive, it would have taken him little effort to do the same. But as always, he takes the path of evil.Last edited by Whispri; 2009-01-01 at 11:04 PM.
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2009-01-01, 11:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
Interestingly enough, I believe the damage to the walls is ireelevant. Repairing multiple breaches accross the whole of it is impossible, but keeping one section up is something a certain dirtamancer might be up to.
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2009-01-01, 11:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
I agree with Parson, Charlie is a schmuck. Pity that Ansom did not get close enough for the rocks to grab
Memento mori
I see that your Wiki-Fu is strong.
--The Chuck
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2009-01-01, 11:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-01-01, 11:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-01-01, 11:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
Yes, he could easily fit her on that carpet, it's supported two people in the past. Then he could fly her back to his camp, before returning to the Walls. Rather than crying out for a Rod of Resurrection so he could murder her several times. She's incapacitated, it wouldn't have been hard.
Perhaps the Golems change type as they level?
That's certainly an interesting line of thought, and it does seem to at least be possible.Last edited by Whispri; 2009-01-01 at 11:42 PM.
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2009-01-02, 12:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-01-02, 12:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
As long as Wanda is healed a single hit point, she'll be fully healed at the beginning of the next day, which is the start of GK's turn. Well, technically, Transylvito goes first, but there's no way they can make it to GK. Bats have sucky movement, and it'd be suicide to engage Stanley without them.
Keep in mind that he seemed quite happy with the idea of croaking Wanda thousands of times. He's merely horrified at Wanda's apparent eagerness to die.
Or, perhaps, Wanda was taunting him, seeing as how she's in the courtyard and Ansom is in the air space.
But, yeah, he basically chickened out, and used his little speech at the end to justify it. And even if he had went down to croak Wanda, odds are those golems would have caught him and tore him to pieces.
Poor Sizemore is suffering under killing enemy fighters. Imagine how he'd flip out if he watched Wanda die.
I agree, but Ansom's overwhelming superiority (25 to 1, and that was before the loss of the dwagons) gives him a lot of wiggle room. Granted, he lacks imagination (sticking to a battleplan only to ride it down in flames), but he's quite capable of simply muscling his way over any obstacle. It may not be pretty, and he'll drive up a hell of a butcher's bill, but it can be done. Remember, the RCC has all the resources of the 'world' while GK is forced to rely on the resources of a single city.
I find this an interesting post. You're quite right, too. In fact, the fact that there is no one else to 'love' means that when characters do find it, it's quite strong. Which would explain why Wanda's flipped out over losing Jillian.
However, there is a family dynamic, at least when it comes to royalty. Jillian even called King Banhammer her 'father'.
This isn't so odd. It may just be, frankly, a good idea. There are many TBS games in which 'neutral' cities are just there, and practically any time anyone sees a neutral city, it's meant to be conquered. Besides, Gobwin Knob is the most defensible city in the known world--wouldn't you want that under your control? It's also conveniently placed near Transylvito territory (never know who you're going to fight next), and the RCC has already sacked (and possibly razed) eleven other or so cities. Pillaging GK may allow them to recoup some of their war losses, which is mostly upkeep since they've been on the offensive.
As for Ansom's jerkass behavior, yeah, well, it sucks. The plot armor to keep his butt in one piece? Yeah, that sucks too. However, every time he rises, it's going to be all the sweeter when he's knocked down off of his pedestal, and I hope Wanda's there for that moment with the Arkenpliers waiting to see what happens when you crush a living being's head between them. And I hope Jillian watches.
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2009-01-02, 12:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
At least two of them could ride Jillian's Gwiffons if they can't make it on their own. As for the bats, they seem to be carried by the Warlords, Vinnie's bats have only twenty two move after all, and Jillian only wanted to take flyers with twenty six plus.
So he benefits from plundering it, he'd still be killing hundreds of people out of greed for Gold.
And why shouldn't we expect him to be catapulted back up to his pedestal the next time he's knocked off it? I mean, being disarmed, knocked of his mount, and surrounded by Uncroaked was reduced to a minor scare, if that can't stop him, what can?Last edited by Whispri; 2009-01-02 at 12:55 AM.
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2009-01-02, 12:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
Charlie took his turn during this current day at dawn, before GK (though he ended his turn without attacking). His next turn would begin at the same time the following day, again before Parson. It's possible Charlie's new alliance with Jetstone will cause him to act on Jetstone's turn, but in that case he should be able to move his Archons now, which he clearly cannot. So I'm assuming he's still acting on his own initiative.
Of course, I've no idea how Gobwin Knob is supposed to survive that given the forces Charlie has at his disposal, but at this point mere tactics seem powerless against the plot. I just hope the next few comics can actually advance the plot without immediately resetting it.
-HLast edited by Hatu; 2009-01-02 at 12:57 AM.
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2009-01-02, 12:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
I think the courtyard is intended as meaning the area behind the inner walls of the keep, as depicted in panel 8 here for example. That is, once enemy siege units, who are ground units by default, have broken through the outer walls they get to move through the area it encloses up to the keep, courtyard, whatever, where they get to fight the garrison.
Likewise, if flyers wanted to attack the garrison in the courtyard they'd have to deal with whoever's in the tower first, such as those explosions Wanda set off, but anything outside the courtyard but still on the ground (and not underground) could be fair game.
Keep in mind that he seemed quite happy with the idea of croaking Wanda thousands of times. He's merely horrified at Wanda's apparent eagerness to die.
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2009-01-02, 12:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
Ooooh. Scary Wanda face.
Nice work on her part, daring Ansom to kill her. It made him hesitate juuuuuust long enough ....Last edited by FoE; 2009-01-02 at 01:02 AM.
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2009-01-02, 01:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-01-02, 01:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
I love the subtle touch they use in mirroring Wanda's and Ansom's faces. They both have that totally-booped look with the imbalanced eyes, suggesting a real similarity between them (something that we're overlooking?). It's a nice, light touch of symbolism.
Avatar by the incomparable araveugnitsuga!
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2009-01-02, 01:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
Last edited by DevilDan; 2009-01-02 at 01:09 AM.
Quo vadis?
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2009-01-02, 01:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
But Vinny's bats couldn't make it from GK to the ambush point (which is why he mentioned bats, and then the Warlord said they had plenty, basically). They're fliers, but can't be used as mounts, apparently.
According to leading theory, the RCC started the whole war of aggression because Stanley is, simply, not a royal. They've already hit all of Stanley's other cities. The fact that Ansom is going to take GK no matter what shouldn't surprise you.
Well, that's because Wanda will have crushed his skull with the Arkenpliers. I admire your brutal eagerness to see Ansom's corpse flung around like a beach ball, but come on, children read this thing. Plus corpses disappear after a day, so there's only so many Dead or Alive: Extreme Beach Volleyball-style tournaments you can hold.
It said "Terms of Alliance" on the little treaty, so I imagine that they are currently allied now. Charlie has already moved his archons that day, so he can't move them again (can't double-move, so to speak).
From what I understand, the movement goes like this: Charlie, Transylvito, GK, RCC, and that's it. I'm sure the other nations (Sofa King, for example) also move, but the RCC seems to be moving at Jetstone's turn, since they're the dominant power. So Charlie cannot move his archons, but they automatically attack hostile forces in the same square as the archons (the air force and Wanda, in this instance).
This is why so many people assume that Stanley is going to ride in over the horizon as the cavalry--GK goes first and Stanley has plenty of movement to make it back to the city with his remaining dragons...which, apparently, can attack the siege without fear as all the archers we saw were marbits...and those poor guys didn't do so well.
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2009-01-02, 01:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
That's not entirely fair. First of all, he calls Wanda a 'demoness'. Given her getup and the high probability that he's never seen her before, it's entirely possible that he actually thinks she is one (and while we don't know to what extent 'to what measure is a non-human' applies, it probably applies at least a little bit.)
Second, it's perfectly reasonable for him to assume that she helped kill his men (and, in fact, Parson ordered her down there to assist near the end.) He could even, quite reasonably, assume that she is the one that killed Webinar personally.
Third, only reason she was using non-lethal force was because he happened to be worth more alive than dead at the moment. It would be perfectly reasonable (and in line, in fact, with both Gobwin Knob's reputation and much of its reality) for him to assume that they only wanted to capture him so they could interrogate him, torture him to death, and uncroak him to serve on their side in a more relaxed setting.
Fourth, there's no way to tell for sure if he heard the orders he gave her units. He could quite reasonably assume, given the situation, that she was attempting to kill him.
Fifth, she gives a massive bonus to all the undead on the walls while she's operational. His own team thinks his life is in some danger, even with the carpet; Charlie might protect him, but there's still a risk he could die before next turn. If he croaks Wanda now, it would be a massive advantage for his side, and could save the lives of many of his men; if he attempted to capture her and failed, all of those deaths would be the result of his sentimentality.
I wouldn't say that Ansom is really the shining beacon of honor and morality he thinks he is. But calling what he's doing here, on the battlefield, "responding to non-lethal force with attempted murder" just because Wanda's tactical considerations led her to try and capture instead of croak is grossly unfair. Wanda's own statements make it fairly clear that if the situation were different, she would have gladly attempted to croak him.
The whole stealing her girlfriend thing, remember Jillian? Although when she learns of this, well who knows how she'll react?
But if it's just about Jillian, that would at least answer the people who don't think Wanda really loves her.Last edited by Aquillion; 2009-01-02 at 01:19 AM.
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2009-01-02, 01:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122
Interesting, I hadn't thought of that angle. The interpretation that jumped out to me was the Wanda-could-feel-that-she-would-attune-to-the-arkenpliers one.
And yes, the whole build up to Wanda getting the 'pliers just to have them 'yoinked' away at the last second is extremely frustrating...however, we are watching these strips being written and drawn in real-time. Depending on how the final dozen (or however many) strips turn out, someone reading the entire comic in one sitting might not feel quite so frustrated (or at least not for as long!)Oh it is the eyeball one.