Erfworld, the battle for Gobwin Knob, page 114/126

[factotum]

Given that Jillian was screaming in frustration in the last panel, I think it likely that Jack did cloak them, yes.

Loved the Orly commenting "G2G-DED"--those birds are comedy gold, I tells ye!

[edit] MrWeaver, did you miss that Jillian has an ENORMOUS warlord bonus on her stack thanks to all those Transylvito warlords who are on her side? There's a difference between a stack containing only two warlords and one containing eight or more...

[MrWeaver]

I didn't expect Stanley's mount to go down that fast.

Perhaps Jillan gets a nerf in Erfworld 1.1 :D Really though it's diappointing... 'spose we should be happy that Stanley is away though!

[Noble Savant]

A bit disappointed again by how weak the Dwagons are.

I don't think they are really weak, judging by everything that has happened so far. Judging by the fact that only Jillian has been able to kill an undamaged or an elite dwagon, makes it clear that she has an incredibly hefty combat stat. Plus, like someone else mentioned, that Dwagon had been through a lot in this fight.

[ishnar]

HAHAHA, Stanley confused a ORLY Owl with one of his walnut-pigeons! And also, Jack's Loyalty spells won out over his crush on Jillian. Poor Jack&Jill shippers. :)

Heh, it was my impression that where walnuts get turned into birds, birds get turned into walnuts.

[Fez]

Some of Caesar's bats (which were effectively heavy units with all their stacked bonuses) may have whittled it down a bit before they got zapped.

Maybe, but that shouldn't have affected its offense. It caught 2 peeps head on in its breath attack, and they were just lightly toasted. Just seems the elite, personal mount of Stanley should have been taking out things even as it went down.

Regardless, its a minor issue.

I liked Stanley's expression when he was flying up with Jack. I'm not sure if it was 'Aww, my plan didn't work' or 'Aww, my favorite dwagon got croaked', but he's definitely seeming more human the further he gets away from being the King of Gobwin Knoll. Maybe this is the Stanley of the past, when a warlord inspired a King to make him Heir? Who knew, maybe when he's getting beaten up enough to forget to be megalomaniacal he can be the kind of guy to inspire loyalty.

Now an interesting question is, how many of the Transyvito warlords were croaked, and how many eyes are available to try and break Jack's camo. Obviously Jillian failed her roll. So, perhaps Jack and Stanley can make it to Faq on their own... or perhaps Jack will now try to convince him to go back to GK.

So many options for our illustrious Rob and Jami :)

[The Old Hack]

Actually, I just came to a realisation concerning the dwagons. They are not necessarily weak, they have merely been deployed in unfortunate ways or been struck while vulnerable. After all, this latest skirmish was not a true battle but rather an ambush. But perhaps their true problem is this: like many other weapons of war, they work best while supported by other units that complement them and compensate for vulnerabilities. Examples of this would be bomber units unescorted by fighter planes, armour lacking infantry support or artillery units without screening fortifications or forces.

We have time and again seen the dwagons be hurled alone into battle lacking almost all other support. Perhaps it is only when properly supported that they may truly shine.

[vrellum]

Agreed!!!

This page didn't quite seem consistant with what I expected from the characters in terms of their abilities. The big, beefy, armoured Dwagon with Stanley's leadership and the atifact bonus gets battered by a giant peep and Jillian. Presumably that's the toughest of the dwagon types present and this happens to it... so how then did this happen against unled and weaker dwagons. Yes there are 5 but even so guys...

Tell you whats a shame for the Stanley supporters out there - Perhaps had Jillian been home when Faq fell, she too would be serving under Stanley.

Me four (I think I'm the fourth person to express this opinion). Stanley's dragon died too easily.

Maybe it was to move the story on, maybe its because Jillian-led peeps are supercrazy tough. Maybe the dragon was badly wounded fighting against Ceasar and we didn't see it.

[ishnar]

Maybe, but that shouldn't have affected its offense. It caught 2 peeps head on in its breath attack, and they were just lightly toasted. Just seems the elite, personal mount of Stanley should have been taking out things even as it went down.

See the fire coming out the dragon's cheek in panel 2? I'd say having a portion of fire breath diverted out its left cheek can't be helping its fire breath power. And it's a nice little indicator of how much damage the dragon has taken. And, it probably damages the dragon to breath fire in that state too.

[Fez]

See the fire coming out the dragon's cheek in panel 2? I'd say having a portion of your fire breath diverted out your left cheek can't be helping your fire breath.

Maybe, or could be an Orly caught in flame. Hard to tell, but as Jillian said the dwagon was just 'a bit wounded'. Overall, it seemed a bit anti-climactic that the dwagon didn't do more mayhem. Just could have wreaked a bit more havoc as it went. Still as I said above that is just a nitpick and not too significant. Its easy to show after how decimated for example the Translvito forces were by the dragons or alternately show why they were able to succeed without much cost.

And as was said above, it could be the dwagons going solo against other fliers just isn't the best use of them... they may be air to ground specialists, aka bombers.

[multilis]

The dragon was faced 2 of the most powerful attackers in the game (Caeser and Jullian), plus a semi powerful class of flyers, all with huge buffs. (Wounded before Julians attack, obviously Caeser and co got a shot in)

Erfworld feels sort of like Tron movie... the inside of a internet based game, perhaps made by future Parson.

[Nargrakhan]

You know... just out of curiosity... Have anyone of you considered the possibility that Stanley might be the GOOD GUY, and the Alliance is in the wrong? A long stretch... and I honestly don't believe it myself. But considering how loyal his casters are, there MUST be something more to Stanley than we're lead to believe. Undying loyalty is often earned; not given. Of course the same could be said of any evil ruler and their "to the gates of hell" generals... so... meh...

[PePe QuiCoSE]

I don't understand why people are OK with Stanley doing a 1 hit KO on the Big Baddy from Transylvito and not a the Big Bad Dwagon of Stanley dieing after some damage from Caesar/bats, stab in the chest by Big Warlord Jillian and a warlord lead Gwiffon.
I think that it's leveled. And yes, fights seem to be resolved pretty quickly.

[Zolem]

If BAts (one of, if not the, weakest units of the game) became Advanced infantry, how much of a boost do you think the ORLYs, Gwifons, and Jillian got? She could alrready solo blues. Also, I'd say the swarms of bats have taken their toll. There used to be clouds that stretched thick across the whole canyon, now they're realy reduced to a single cloud about the size of a red dwagon. I'd say that if the dwagons can kill hundereds of Advanced Infantry before croaking, they are prety damn tough.

[multilis]

You know... just out of curiosity... Have anyone of you considered the possibility that Stanley might be the GOOD GUY, and the Alliance is in the wrong? A long stretch... and I honestly don't believe it myself. But considering how loyal his casters are, there MUST be something more to Stanley than we're lead to believe. Undying loyalty is often earned; not given. Of course the same could be said of any evil ruler and their "to the gates of hell" generals... so... meh...

Charlie... distrusted by Stanley and betrayed Ansom's allies.

FAQ terrain looks similar to Charlies base, possible they are relatively close or the same location.

[MattR]

I doubt they broke the spell daily. Remember, the strain of breaking the spell is what caused Misty's death and Jack's insanity (since Maggie forced the repercussions on others to spare herself).

In the page you listed, Misty didn't say she couldn't light up the table, she said units can't move at night. The fact that Misty was still in link, even when the table wasn't in use speaks to the fact the link was a permanent set up.

Regardless, interesting page.

1. As folk here said, seems the story of FAQ may be a bit more complex than Jillian has described or even knows given the loyalty of the casters who were there.
2. Regarding the Orly-nut, the hammer did its KRACK-THOOM just before, so yeah, not only turns the periodic cracked nut into a pigeon, apparently turns the periodic killed Orly into a nut.
3. I didn't expect Stanley's mount to go down that fast. If you looked at it in various shots it was a lot more buff than the other dragons. It had more of a metallic sheen, blades/spikes, etc. Seemed to be the elite dragon, but went down pretty easy despite getting Stanley's full leadership bonus being in his stack and having his firesupport.
4. Does the fact that Caesar wasn't around mean he got Croaked while injuring Stanley and the Dragon? Maybe that is it. Makes you wonder what happened to the rest of the forces.

Um i never said anything about her lighting up the table?

Show me where in this http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0050.html or the following pages it shows Misty is still linked up. Theres no magical light, no physical chains like in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0072.html or http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0078.html.

Unless its stated otherwise it looks pretty much like she's not linked and if shes not linked the other two are likely to not be linked as well. Its been confirmed on several occasions that there a limits to a caster's capabilities, exaustion alone would lead to the link breaking.

Misty, Maggie and Jack all look ill, the constant forming and breaking of the link would easily explain this better then the cause just being the use of magic.

[the_tick_rules]

Yes these dragons sure are getting creamed with remarkable ease.

[leo_neil316]

If you look at panel 4 you'll see the lead gwiffon going down from the breath attack.

We don't know how combat works but it could be more along the lines of warmachine/hordes than 40k.

So damage is set to a degree, but theres still an element of luck involved.

So the units have armour X and damage points Y and a hit does damage A plus a diceroll.

Rolled average on the lead gwiffon and took it down. But snake eyed the second which proved it's downfall.

And iirc taking damage -does- slow down the heaviest units in those systems. They get to take alot more damage than even the heaviest infantry in the game (heaviest infantry units in warmachine/hordes can take maybe 10 points past their armour, a warbeast or warjack can take around 30, and has higher armour)

-but- they can take damage to specific things. Warbeast especially can take damage in such a way that they do less damage with all attacks. Even magical firebreathy type ones.

[Zolem]

If you look at panel 4 you'll see the lead gwiffon going down from the breath attack.

We don't know how combat works but it could be more along the lines of warmachine/hordes than 40k.

So damage is set to a degree, but theres still an element of luck involved.

So the units have armour X and damage points Y and a hit does damage A plus a diceroll.

Rolled average on the lead gwiffon and took it down. But snake eyed the second which proved it's downfall.

And iirc taking damage -does- slow down the heaviest units in those systems. They get to take alot more damage than even the heaviest infantry in the game (heaviest infantry units in warmachine/hordes can take maybe 10 points past their armour, a warbeast or warjack can take around 30, and has higher armour)

-but- they can take damage to specific things. Warbeast especially can take damage in such a way that they do less damage with all attacks. Even magical firebreathy type ones.

Like the hole in the cheek reducing fire breath.

[leo_neil316]

Yup, just a visual representation. We're getting the cinematic view afterall so we get to see the results of the damage done.

[slayerx]

One of my first thoughts... Jillian is finally loosing that stupid, stupid wig.

As for Jack helping Stanely...
one thing to take into account is that Jack may likely suffer from duty just as sizemore does. Casters are a type of commander unit and he is compelled to serve his lord at his own initiative.

considering the concept of "duty" its hard to say what it takes for a unit to "turn" or betray their lord.

though it is also possible that when Stanely first captured Jack, he had maggie use thinkamancy to adjust his loyalty so that he would not go against his duty.

[MattR]

Could it be that duty as a stat doesnt actually exist? for people who live in a world full of stats that can be seen maybe theyre assuming things they cant see work in exactly the same way.

[Fez]

Um i never said anything about her lighting up the table?

Show me where in this http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0050.html or the following pages it shows Misty is still linked up. Theres no magical light, no physical chains like in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0072.html or http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0078.html.

Unless its stated otherwise it looks pretty much like she's not linked and if shes not linked the other two are likely to not be linked as well. Its been confirmed on several occasions that there a limits to a caster's capabilities, exaustion alone would lead to the link breaking.

Misty, Maggie and Jack all look ill, the constant forming and breaking of the link would easily explain this better then the cause just being the use of magic.

Panel 8

Panel 5

Discussion of being linked, shock Parson talked to Misty "D:". There was worry about whether they were able to link this turn.

A more detailed description of the spell that allows them to be linked. So there is an ongoing spell, which takes their individuality.Which goes back to Panel 8 of page 51, where Misty no longer is called by a name even at night, and Parson's talking to her was dangerous because it might have collapsed the spell. If the spell wasn't active, then Parson talking to Misty wouldn't have been a risk.

[datalaughing]

Ooo, I like that idea. They just assume that these things they can't see are stats, because that's their view of how the world works. Just like we use how we percieve the world works to try and explain things that we can't directly observe. It makes these stats like a Higgs boson or gravity or something. I don't know how well that concept would actually pan out in the game world, but it's an awesome existential sort of erf-thought.

[BarGamer]

One of my first thoughts... Jillian is finally loosing that stupid, stupid wig.

The last move of her dance-fighting routine is randomly flailing around like an idiot. :D

Oh wow, I never even considered that the effect could be reversed: birds into nuts!? That just makes the joke EVEN BETTER! (Personally, given what state I'm in and the season, I would've preferred pecans, but we can't have everything. Also, would've run the risk of the joke being missed entirely.)

[SteveMB]

Unless its stated otherwise it looks pretty much like she's not linked and if shes not linked the other two are likely to not be linked as well. Its been confirmed on several occasions that there a limits to a caster's capabilities, exaustion alone would lead to the link breaking.

When Stanley ordered the link broken, Misty croaked and Jack became deranged. Nothing like that happened before, so obviously breaking the link is in response to Stanley's order is something new.

That said, it's possible that the link is reduced to some sort of weaker "standby mode" when the table is not actively in use, and at those times the casters manifest some of their original individual personalities.

[Tar Palantir]

Hurray, we finally get to witness the almighty veil! Gotta love Jack, crazy or not. I've never been crazy about Jillian.

[Miklus]

I'm pretty convince that SOMETHING happend in FAQ that we and Jillian don't know about. Maybe Wanda betrayed the little kingdom and asked for Stanley to come. Maybe Jack is involved somehow. Like, Wanda seduces Jack into letting the veil slip? It would be interresting to get Wanda and Jack together to see that they have to talk about.

[Wrecan]

You know... just out of curiosity... Have anyone of you considered the possibility that Stanley might be the GOOD GUY, and the Alliance is in the wrong?

Actually, I think it's quite likely. Why is Ansom fighting? As far as I can tell, it's because Stanley's a piker with dreams of Warlord status.

Why is Stanley fighting? Because he's being attacked and he's questing for the Arkentools. He started with 11 cities, and they've lost ten of them.

We don't know why Saline IV died -- we suspect foul play, but have no evidence.

We don't know how FAQ fell -- we suspect foul play, but have no evidence -- and Wanda and Jack's loyalty is counterevidence.

Stanley is a boor, and an idiot, and, as Parson said, he has all the classic evil creatures on his side, but that doesn't make him the bad guy.

[IronBear]

Clearly there is more to the FAQ story than we have been shown.

And I have the growing suspicion that Stanley did not conquer FAQ at all.

I suspect Stanley was a regular visitor to FAQ long before it fell, possibly as warlord. And there is no evidence other than the presence of the FAQ casters in Gobwinknob that Stanley conquered FAQ.

He knew how to find it. A remarkable feat considering FAQ’s neighbor Transilvito has remained unaware of this kingdom’s existence.

Stanley and Jillian know each other. And Stanley thought well of her. Recall his disappointment and hurt to discover Jillian hated him here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0072.html


The intense loyalty of the FAQ casters also says something more is going on here. Twice now these casters have refused to turn from Stanley, and we know Wanda is under no loyalty spell, so it is not unreasonable to assume that Jack is also not under any loyalty spell. Considering that we have been told that captured units have notoriously low loyalty this seems at odds with the idea of them being captured at all.




Something else that has played across my mind is the fact that Wands (and I assume Jack) are part of the “lost Croatan tribe”. Given the constant play on words and real world references here this has gotten me thinking about them and what happened to FAQ. The Croatan tribe is a Native American tribe residing on the east coast of the United States and was the tribe that the first European colony the Roanoak came into contact with. If you paid attention in your history class you would know that the Roanoak colony mysteriously vanished and for a long time it was assumed that they were attacked and wiped out by the Croatans, but there is evidence that the European colonists merged in with the Croatans.



What follows is pure conjecture….

Jillian states she was not well liked by her “father” just as she did not care for him. She believed he viewed her as a disappointment, possibly enough so that “dad” didn’t actually want to leave his kingdom to her. Though maybe her father really did care for her and wanted her to be happy, and knowing she would not be happy running her own kingdom, arranged with Stanley to not have to inherit the kingdom at all.

Maybe the old king saw something of himself in Stanley. Jillian said her father didn’t treat subordinates very well…If the old king turned over the kingdom to Stanley he would save his daughter from having to become the queen, (letting her become the barbarian she seemed more interested in being) and at the same time not have his beloved kingdom fall.

I suspect this took place prior to the death of Saline IV. Recall that Stanley took the casters and the dwagons on a mission when the insurrection took place.

This would explain the high loyalty of the FAQ casters, they are not captured units they are just loyal to their true leader.
This also explains just how Stanley could conquer a kingdom, with a talented foolmancer and croakmancer (who is possibly also the predictmancer)…he didn’t conquer it at all.
It would explain why he didn’t understand that Jillian hated him, he could have thought she was in on the deal. As we are seeing conquering a kingdom is a long drawn out affair. It would have been tough to conquer FAQ without the neighboring Transilvito noticing something going on
And it explains Jack’s way of addressing Stanley aside form being in King Lear nuncle means mine uncle, or a surrogate father/leader.


One final thought – the loyalty issue has always bothered me. Since Stanley popped under King Saline and served for years under him I have to assume he has significant loyalty to King Saline. I don’t understand how anyone with loyalty could arrange for a revolution and the killing of one’s overlord. It would not surprise me that someone else was responsible for King Saline’s death. Charlie? Could explain why Stanley doesn’t like him

[Jeivar]

"Ow. Birds. Ow! Quit it!"
Also, "NYARM!" is my new favorite sound effect.

As for the implications of Jack's loyalty to Stanley . . . I've simply given up trying to theorize about Erfworld's plot. I'll just wait and see what comes.

You know... just out of curiosity... Have anyone of you considered the possibility that Stanley might be the GOOD GUY, and the Alliance is in the wrong?

While Ansom certainly isn't a Hero, every time someone brings up the possibility of Stanley actually being alright I think back to panel 5 of page 32. Anyone with that kind of RAGING arrogance and narcissism on their face simply cannot be a good person. Plus, there is the fact that he's A-OK about torture, turning his casters into mindless husks, executing underlings for failing him or saying something he didn't like, and starting unprovoked wars with all his neighbors.
I think people are starting to sympathize with him mostly because he generally acts like an idiotic manchild and has pretty much everything going against him. People love underdogs. Or at least despise them less than otherwise, even though they're complete jerks.