BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 2

[XtheYeti]

Then...they're hit with a punch.

I really, really, really, REALLY don't think we should bring the ability to attack those into the game. It serves as either a boring way to take out "mooks", or a way to effectively take a Shinigami PC completely out of the game.

So, I'd say it just is a punch to the gut. Nothing more. And that we shouldn't (if nothing else, just as a general consensus) attack those points with swords, arrows, claws, or whatever else. Because frankly, no PC will let that happen to them, unless it's their plot anyways. So it's pointless.

Edit: @Shades, from here:

So...what would happen if Nick were to punch a Shinigami there? I mean that is his primary form of attack...it is how he is supposed to deal damage to stuff...Would he be the exception?

[KnightDisciple]

So...what would happen if Nick were to punch a Shinigami there? I mean that is his primary form of attack...it is how he is supposed to deal damage to stuff...Would he be the exception?

He'd punch people in the gut. And they'd react as if punched in the gut.

I'm saying that no one, no exceptions, should be able to specifically target those points with the express purpose of disabling them.

You can still punch people in the gut. That's a time-honored method of punching people. You just can't punch them and magically make all their powers go away.

Especially since, in canon, it seems to need to be someone who is very accurate and precise with a sharp cutting attack (Quincy arrow or sword), rather than something like a punch

Edit: And by "those two points", I specifically mean the Chain of Fate (Saketsu or chain link) and the Soul Sleep (Hakusui).

[tgva8889]

Spoiler

Show

How about reducing it to one ability per rune and then maybe two weaker ones for each combination? So, Fire lets him shoot fireblasts, Earth lets him rip up shards of ground to attack, and the combination lets him do two different things with Lava, one of which should be to shoot lava from the ground. Maybe the second could be some sort of defensive ability.

Kasanip, we're on the same wavelength here.

Especially since, in canon, it seems to need to be someone who is very accurate and precise with a sharp cutting attack (Quincy arrow or sword), rather than something like a punch

Also, you need to be fighting someone who is sufficiently weak and slow enough that you'll actually hit them there. Otherwise, it just looks cool when you move up close and try to hit them/try to shoot an arrow at them and miss.

[XtheYeti]

He'd punch people in the gut. And they'd react as if punched in the gut.

I'm saying that no one, no exceptions, should be able to specifically target those points with the express purpose of disabling them.

You can still punch people in the gut. That's a time-honored method of punching people. You just can't punch them and magically make all their powers go away.

Especially since, in canon, it seems to need to be someone who is very accurate and precise with a sharp cutting attack (Quincy arrow or sword), rather than something like a punch

Edit: And by "those two points", I specifically mean the Chain of Fate (Saketsu or chain link) and the Soul Sleep (Hakusui).

So then what about when he learns to do the spiky bits thing? Could he conceivably make a single spike at the end of his fist and drive it into one of those two spots? (I'm not saying he will ever try, just saying he should have the ability.)

[KnightDisciple]

So then what about when he learns to do the spiky bits thing? Could he conceivably make a single spike at the end of his fist and drive it into one of those two spots? (I'm not saying he will ever try, just saying he should have the ability.)

He can learn to shoot spikes at people and hit them in the gut.

I'm sorry, but this isn't something I think should by compromised on. My centuries-old "lightsaber"-wielding Shinigami won't perform this attack. I don't see why anyone should perform it. I mean, a sword/spike/arrow to the gut is pretty harsh.

There is literally no need for someone to go around with the ability to either a.)make "mook" fights even easier, or b.)make a player character effectively useless the rest of the game. Or even a higher-powered NPC.

I'm not trying to rag you, XtheYeti, but I just don't think this is something that should be in the game. It's essentially the same thing as a one-hit-kill.

[KnightDisciple]

(Double Post to keep this separate.)

@tvga8889/Kasanip: The "only one power per rune" idea has some merit, but it could still raise issues.

I point to the "Light" rune. Just having it shoot a "blast of light energy" essentially makes that 1 Rune (out of 14) almost as good as Masaru's Shikai in entirety. Because besides making the blades out of "light energy" (which is mostly flavor, though it likely makes them cut a bit better), all Masaru's Shikai does is shoot blasts of energy. And that leaves him without a sword blade for a few seconds! If Katisugo can do this, but still have his sword ready for immediate use after the blast, he's automatically better than Masaru, or nearly so.

Really, we need Righty to get back into this conversation. If he can accept working with the community, then we can start giving suggestions.

[Terry576]

So then what about when he learns to do the spiky bits thing? Could he conceivably make a single spike at the end of his fist and drive it into one of those two spots? (I'm not saying he will ever try, just saying he should have the ability.)

Wouldn't it be easier to just to shoot people with arrows at that point? I mean, if you're that close, I hold out my sword and bam. Stabbed in the face.

[KnightDisciple]

My other suggestion as a way to fix this, is to combine the idea of element runes with his kidou. It seems like he is quite skilled at Kidou, and with the abilities of his zanpakutou, it seems like it is a kidou type. What if, instead of each rune having a different 'shikai' ability, if the runes helped 'flavor' his kidou ability? With an ice rune equipped, he could use ice 'flavor' kidou techniques - instead of a 'fireball-like kidou' he attacks with a giant hail-stone? Or the lightning helps make his binding bakudo more powerful?

It makes him into a very 'kidou' character instead of a sword-fighter, but his personality you described makes him seem such.

I actually just caught this suggestion.

This could be an interesting, handy ability that still doesn't feel overpowered. Especially if it sticks to the "pure" runes.

Of course, the Bankai would need redone, but still. This might be workable.

[Terry576]

But the trouble is, he's not in the Kido Corps. He's the Science division guy. All this emphasis on Kido seems very unsciencey.

[KnightDisciple]

But the trouble is, he's not in the Kido Corps. He's the Science division guy. All this emphasis on Kido seems very unsciencey.

That's an entirely separate issue.

[XtheYeti]

He can learn to shoot spikes at people and hit them in the gut.

I'm sorry, but this isn't something I think should by compromised on. My centuries-old "lightsaber"-wielding Shinigami won't perform this attack. I don't see why anyone should perform it. I mean, a sword/spike/arrow to the gut is pretty harsh.

There is literally no need for someone to go around with the ability to either a.)make "mook" fights even easier, or b.)make a player character effectively useless the rest of the game. Or even a higher-powered NPC.

I'm not trying to rag you, XtheYeti, but I just don't think this is something that should be in the game. It's essentially the same thing as a one-hit-kill.

No no no. I'm not saying that he will ever actually try to do it. I'm just saying, that if he grew a spike and punched it into on of those two spots, that it should be exactly like if a Shinigami stabbed it, or a Quincy shot it. I have no intention for Nick to ever. Ever. EVER. Do it. Just that he has the capability.

[Terry576]

That's an entirely separate issue.

We still need to focus on it, if only a little bit. If he can have godly kido skills as well, why is he the captain of the 12th? Why not be the captain of the Kido Corps?

[KnightDisciple]

No no no. I'm not saying that he will ever actually try to do it. I'm just saying, that if he grew a spike and punched it into on of those two spots, that it should be exactly like if a Shinigami stabbed it, or a Quincy shot it. I have no intention for Nick to ever. Ever. EVER. Do it. Just that he has the capability.

I think that saying he has it is pointless, and shouldn't even be mentioned. Again, why can't we be happy with just punching people in the gut with spikes? I'd rather this whole subject not have come up at all.

Edit:

We still need to focus on it, if only a little bit. If he can have godly kido skills as well, why is he the captain of the 12th? Why not be the captain of the Kido Corps?

Strictly speaking, Kido make sense for a science-y person, moreso than swordwork. And his skill isn't quite "godly". I mean, my 8th Division Captain Candidate, Masaru, can do 70-downwards chantless, though I've explicitly stated they're weaker than chanted versions. If Katisugo has the same note, it doesn't seem a huge deal. And I think we should take things a step at a time.

[XtheYeti]

I think that saying he has it is pointless, and shouldn't even be mentioned. Again, why can't we be happy with just punching people in the gut with spikes? I'd rather this whole subject not have come up at all.

Mainly I just want it to be clear that Nick's punching does equal damage the a Zampakto, or Quincy Arrow does. Oh, wait. That reminds me. What should happen to Hollows that Nick defeats? His punches and stuff shouldn't purify them. Or destroy them like a Q arrow. What happens to a Hollow killed by a Cero?

[nothingclever]

If you don't use it why do you need it? Just write a line that says "Nick's punches are comparable to..." The damage quincy arrows and zanpakuto do is relative anyways.

[Terry576]

Mainly I just want it to be clear that Nick's punching does equal damage the a Zampakto, or Quincy Arrow does. Oh, wait. That reminds me. What should happen to Hollows that Nick defeats? His punches and stuff shouldn't purify them. Or destroy them like a Q arrow. What happens to a Hollow killed by a Cero?

You're forgetting something.

For One, If you have a punching skill, I'd just stab you (Shinigami), or go Resurreccion and well. Stab you. If he was just a substitute Shinigami it would make more sense.

For Another:

If a hollow dies by Cero it's gonna be eaten.

[Callos_DeTerran]

You don't need to be in the Kido Corp to be good at kido. Hell, until Tessai showed up, we saw plenty who were adept at kido but never even knew there was a Kido Corp (might be wrong there). And since there's pretty close to only six paths of specialization a shinigami can aim for (kido, hoho, hakudo, zanjutsu, zanpakuto specialization, technological specialization), there will eventually be overlap.

There's nothing wrong with being kido-focused outside of the Kido Corp, in other words, but if your character is exceptional at kido (for their level) then you might want to consider why they aren't. It's good potential plot.

As for using Senka...well it's obvious it should only be used with player permission, but that doesn't mean it should be ignored either. I think your bias against the ability to remove one's power might be affecting your judgment on this one. Especially considering that Senka is one of the best ways to keep a shinigami from causing any future problems without resorting to flat out killing them. That is to say, I'm not saying throw it out willy-nilly...it obviously requires a significant degree of accuracy and speed for it to even be effective half the time and most people on par with a senka-user are probably quick enough to avoid it, especially if they know it is coming.

More importantly, one CAN get their powers back. Just look at Ichigo, though he is an oddball example because it destroyed Rukia's powers in him and the powers he got back were his own. Or rather...look at the technological progress of the 12th and the healing capability of the 4th or someone with a healing zanpakuto...I fully believe that using one, or both, the soul chain and soul sleep can be repaired or fixed. Just take some time. I may also be biased however considering I said Osamu tries to use senka himself to end fights quickly.

[XtheYeti]

You're forgetting something.

For One, If you have a punching skill, I'd just stab you (Shinigami), or go Resurreccion and well. Stab you. If he was just a substitute Shinigami it would make more sense.

For Another:

If a hollow dies by Cero it's gonna be eaten.

...Huh? You do know who Nick is right? The Half Hollow....

[KnightDisciple]

Mainly I just want it to be clear that Nick's punching does equal damage the a Zampakto, or Quincy Arrow does. Oh, wait. That reminds me. What should happen to Hollows that Nick defeats? His punches and stuff shouldn't purify them. Or destroy them like a Q arrow. What happens to a Hollow killed by a Cero?

Then...just say he's equally as potent a combatant as Shinigami and Quincy. *Shrugs*

As for a Hollowing/Living Vizard/Living Arrancar....

I think in the last game, we determined that when they took down a Hollow, it basically had a slight delay, then just hopped into rebirth, skipping Soul Society. Similar to how we said Quincy arrows work in the current game.

I would propose that we perhaps instead simply say that they cause those souls to jut go right to being reborn. It's not exactly in keeping with the cycle, but it avoids handing out a sort of fluff "punishment" to said players for wanting to simply emulate Chad in the group.

Edit: @Callos: Yes, I'm biased against removing player powers. Is that a bad thing?

If someone wants to do a plot specifically to lose their powers, then I suppose it can come into play. And it might be a useful thing to do before sending someone to the Maggot's Nest or something similar. But otherwise, we shouldn't even worry about it, think about it, compare to it, etc.

What you call "bias" I admit to as my view. We shouldn't be able to remove player powers unless it's been explicitly planned by them, for quite a while, really.

As for gaining powers back like Ichigo...I think that would only work with Substitute or Living Shinigami. Regular Shinigami dont' have a mortal body to get shoved out of to have the chain cut from. And any such healing method should be something discussed by the community; it's a bit of a game-changer, in many ways.

[XtheYeti]

Then...just say he's equally as potent a combatant as Shinigami and Quincy. *Shrugs*

As for a Hollowing/Living Vizard/Living Arrancar....

I think in the last game, we determined that when they took down a Hollow, it basically had a slight delay, then just hopped into rebirth, skipping Soul Society. Similar to how we said Quincy arrows work in the current game.

I would propose that we perhaps instead simply say that they cause those souls to jut go right to being reborn. It's not exactly in keeping with the cycle, but it avoids handing out a sort of fluff "punishment" to said players for wanting to simply emulate Chad in the group.

I is not emulating chad. I is making a chad that makes sense, and is by far a much better developed character...so yes I am emulating chad...and that sounds good.

[KnightDisciple]

I is not emulating chad. I is making a chad that makes sense, and is by far a much better developed character...so yes I am emulating chad...and that sounds good.

*Sighs* I'm not accusing you of making an expy. But your character is a mortal with hollow powers. Congratulations, he's something like Chad. Tyler, my Living Vizard, fills roughly the same role in his group. *Shrugs* Nothing wrong with it, just saying.

[Terry576]

...Huh? You do know who Nick is right? The Half Hollow....

Can you even be Half Hollow? Are you a Vizard or something?

*Sighs* I'm not accusing you of making an expy. But your character is a mortal with hollow powers. Congratulations, he's something like Chad. Tyler, my Living Vizard, fills roughly the same role in his group. *Shrugs* Nothing wrong with it, just saying.

Just make a Vizard character. It's easier, whereas a living "Hollow" would essentially be killed by a shinigami misinterpreting the signal.

[XtheYeti]

*Sighs* I'm not accusing you of making an expy. But your character is a mortal with hollow powers. Congratulations, he's something like Chad. Tyler, my Living Vizard, fills roughly the same role in his group. *Shrugs* Nothing wrong with it, just saying.

lol. I was trying to makes you laugh. Nick is Chad. Period. Only Chad as he should be. Well...at least how I think Chad should be. And Terry, read his character sheet. It explains everything.

[KnightDisciple]

Can you even be Half Hollow? Are you a Vizard or something?

Um, Terry? Check the "General" section of the Original Post. We've got a breakdown of all the available "types" of characters. XtheYeti has a character that would be considered a "Hollowing". Similar to Chad. A mortal with Hollow powers, not manifesting in either a Vizard Mask, or an Arrancar Zanpakutou.

[Terry576]

Link it then. :>

[Callos_DeTerran]

Mainly I just want it to be clear that Nick's punching does equal damage the a Zampakto, or Quincy Arrow does. Oh, wait. That reminds me. What should happen to Hollows that Nick defeats? His punches and stuff shouldn't purify them. Or destroy them like a Q arrow. What happens to a Hollow killed by a Cero?

It isn't the damage that senka causes that results in what it does...it's where the other person is hit and how precisely. I wouldn't worry about people under-estimating Nick's punches.

As for the Hollow question...that's a good one. My guess is they aren't purified, so they don't just pass on to the Soul Society. Maybe they become the ambient reishi until it's used?

[Terry576]

Okay, Nick sounds like a Stable Vizard, except he just goes straight to second stage, and has no Zanpakuto. :>

Now I'm off to work on my substitute shinigami character.

[KnightDisciple]

Link it then. :>

Since apparently you can't just go back 1 page and look at the indicated section...

Original Post.

Relevant Section:

Mortal/Hollow Hybrids

Living Vizard
A Living Vizard is a mortal with a hollow mask, the mask comes with an innate, unique power, and when on, it gives the normal boosts and hollow abilities. Living Vizards can, eventualy, achieve resurreccion. A vizard mask cannot ever be lost, and if broken it can be resummoned almost instantly.

Living Arrancar
A living arrancar gains an arrancar zanpakuto (no spirit), hollow abilities (sonido, cero, hierro, bala) and the power of resurreccion. Resurreccion relies on the zanpakuto, which, unlike the vizard mask, can be broken (in which case it needs awhile to regrow).

Hollowing
A hollowing is a mortal who gains the power to turn some body part into a hollow-like version with greater strenght, speed and resilience. The powers in this hollowlike limb can be bolstered through training, but only up to a limit. As this limit is reached the hollowing must, in order to increase her powers, absorb hollow reishi, either form the atmosphere of hueco mundo or through the cannibalization of hollows, which allows even more of the Hollowing's body to turn into hollow-like parts.
The powers of the hollowing come at a risk, for, when enough of the hollowing's body becomes hollowlike, he risks becoming trapped into the monstrous shape.

As stated, Nick is a Hollowing. Just like what Chad is. He gets Hollow arms, a different method than a mask.

And I think my official recommendation is the "kicked right to being reborn somewhere". I'm just not a big fan of souls being "destroyed" or "dissipated". Except maybe by Quincy arrows, and even then, I'd rather that not be the case. Maybe it's "personal bias", but....I just don't like the idea of souls being destroyed. Or being anything other than...souls, really.

[Frozen_Feet]

I still think souls offed by Quincy or other Medium powers hould turn to furniture reishi - the particles that make up the spiritual world. After the initial dissipation caused by an attack, if the soul isn't eaten by Hollow or purified by Shinigami, it spends a while as a non-sentient being or force before returning to cycle of reincarnation.

I mean, it's not that horrible of a fate for people.

[XtheYeti]

firstly. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=11 Nick.

Second. I am all for KD's Idea. I would however like some other input.