VS Battles Wiki Make No Sense At All

[Bartmanhomer]

I was checking the VS Battles Wiki to search for some fighters such as Yu-Gi-Oh Dark Magician and Exodia The Forbidden One and both of them are Tier 2-C which have the powers and durability of a low multiverse level. I say what?! I can see that Exodia is a 2-C but there's no way that the Dark Magician is a 2-C. In the card game and anime, Dark Magician's attack power is 2500 and his defense power is 2100. The Dark Magician can't be evenly matched with Exodia. What does everyone think of the Vs Battle Wiki?

[Eldan]

Of course it doesn't make sense. The entire idea is stupid and comparing power between entirely different universes and genres by reducing them to a small handful of numbers has never worked.

[Prime32]

Many long-running comic characters have wildly inconsistent abilities, sometimes with the excuse that they temporarily died/lost their powers/etc.

Take Magneto for an example:

• Under one writer he can sense and control iron with surgical precision, to the point of controlling the blood in peoples' brains to make them hallucinate. He can't control anything other than iron, nor can he control things further than a few hundred feet.
• Under another writer he can control any object, regardless of whether it's made of metal, but doesn't have any special sensory abilities and can only control things he can see.
• Under another writer he can control metal objects from galaxies away, but takes an unspecified amount of time to lock onto them (possibly months or years, and may have needed outside help); he also has very little precision and can't control multiple objects at once nor anything smaller than his fist.

So a site like VS Battles will mix-and-match the strongest aspects of all three and declare that Magneto can casually mind control galaxies worth of people at once, even if there's never been any incarnation of Magneto who can do that.

You also have Magneto fighting other people whose own strength is wildly inconsistent - if writer #1 describes the Hulk's punches as "infinitely powerful" but writer #2 has non-powered civilians take punches from the Hulk without dying, then when writer #2 has Magneto tank a punch from the Hulk this becomes evidence that Magneto is "stronger than infinity".

And then there's people blatantly misreading events to inflate power levels. E.g. there was a comic where

• Magneto has constructed a space station with artificial gravity
• On this space station he builds a Danger Room - a chamber designed to simulate different enemies and environments.
• While training the X-Men in the Danger Room, he says "Good! But what if I effectively reverse gravity?" and the X-Men start floating into the air.

The logical conclusion would be that either Magneto turned off the Danger Room's artificial gravity, or was gently lifting them with magnetism to give them a feel for what fighting in inverted gravity would be like. But the VS Battles conclusion was that this proves Magneto is capable of destroying universes - because clearly he has the power to control gravity (which he has never mentioned before or since, despite boasting about his powers constantly) and people with gravity powers can destroy universes.

[Traab]

Many long-running comic characters have wildly inconsistent abilities, sometimes with the excuse that they temporarily died/lost their powers/etc.

Take Magneto for an example:

• Under one writer he can sense and control iron with surgical precision, to the point of controlling the blood in peoples' brains to make them hallucinate. He can't control anything other than iron, nor can he control things further than a few hundred feet.
• Under another writer he can control any object, regardless of whether it's made of metal, but doesn't have any special sensory abilities and can only control things he can see.
• Under another writer he can control metal objects from galaxies away, but takes an unspecified amount of time to lock onto them (possibly months or years, and may have needed outside help); he also has very little precision and can't control multiple objects at once nor anything smaller than his fist.

So a site like VS Battles will mix-and-match the strongest aspects of all three and declare that Magneto can casually mind control galaxies worth of people at once, even if there's never been any incarnation of Magneto who can do that.

You also have Magneto fighting other people whose own strength is wildly inconsistent - if writer #1 describes the Hulk's punches as "infinitely powerful" but writer #2 has non-powered civilians take punches from the Hulk without dying, then when writer #2 has Magneto tank a punch from the Hulk this becomes evidence that Magneto is "stronger than infinity".

And then there's people blatantly misreading events to inflate power levels. E.g. there was a comic where

• Magneto has constructed a space station with artificial gravity
• On this space station he builds a Danger Room - a chamber designed to simulate different enemies and environments.
• While training the X-Men in the Danger Room, he says "Good! But what if I effectively reverse gravity?" and the X-Men start floating into the air.

The logical conclusion would be that either Magneto turned off the Danger Room's artificial gravity, or was gently lifting them with magnetism to give them a feel for what fighting in inverted gravity would be like. But the VS Battles conclusion was that this proves Magneto is capable of destroying universes - because clearly he has the power to control gravity (which he has never mentioned before or since, despite boasting about his powers constantly) and people with gravity powers can destroy universes.

The transitive property is my least favorite part of any versus battle. I think the best example is the mortal kombat argument that came up a few times where the basic line of dialogue goes "Kombatant A can deflect bullets as seen in this cinematic. Therefore every kombatant is fast enough to deflect bullets or else they wouldnt be able to compete."

My other one is the rush to declare someone to be as fast as lightning or light itself despite there being other potential explanations for why one person dodged or blocked a laser beam. Such as, said laser beam had to be aimed by a dude moving at much slower than light speed himself allowing the character to predict its path and block. If somebody points a gun at me and I duck behind a pillar, im not faster than a speeding bullet, im just able to see there is a GUN pointed in my direction and able to move before he pulls the trigger.

[Eldan]

Oh, you can get worse than that. My hobby is whenever someone brings relativistic physics into fantasy properties. "So here, he dodges a light spell. Meaning he can dodge light. Meaning he's faster than light. Now, since he has mass, that means he actually has infinite energy, because that's required to accelerate a mass to light speed. Since he has infinite energy, he also has infinite mass-energy, meaning he is actually a humanoid black hole with a mass greater than the visibile universe and the entire game takes place inside his event horizon, making him God."

[Rynjin]

Yeah, FTL feats are the biggest bugbear when it comes to Vs battles arguments. It's annoying, because some characters ARE faster than light, but it's basically treated as a given for any anime/manga or comics character to be because they juked a laser ight on a gun or some ****, making them "lightspeed".

I think the only thing that annoys me more is when they take a nickname or technique name as 100% True Facts so if somebody uses the "Lightspeed Step Technique" or someone is named "Lightspeed Joe" or some **** they brush off any arguments to them not being FTL with "bro it's literally in the NAME bro how are you this dense bruh".

There are some Hajime no Ippo fans who believe some characters are literally FTL.

This is a boxing series which takes place in the real world and has no supernatural elements to it. But because some character in the story once described Miyata's punches as "lightspeed", Itagaki's speed is sometimes represented as making the world around him "move in slow motion", and some characters "move faster than the eye can follow" (which is a whole 'nother pet peeve of mine with lightspeed arguments) some morons take that literally instead of just the people in universe hyping up mundane (though impressive for a human) feats of speed and strength.

[LibraryOgre]

"bro it's literally in the NAME bro how are you this dense bruh".

"Boy, you're gonna be disappointed when a birder starts talking about the titmouse."

[Traab]

"Boy, you're gonna be disappointed when a birder starts talking about the titmouse."

Hee heh, boobies.

[Prime32]

My other one is the rush to declare someone to be as fast as lightning or light itself despite there being other potential explanations for why one person dodged or blocked a laser beam. Such as, said laser beam had to be aimed by a dude moving at much slower than light speed himself allowing the character to predict its path and block. If somebody points a gun at me and I duck behind a pillar, im not faster than a speeding bullet, im just able to see there is a GUN pointed in my direction and able to move before he pulls the trigger.

One of the silliest examples of this has to be JJBA part 2, where Kars apparently dodges a light beam at point-blank range after it's fired, and then receives a massive powerup which allows him to... move as fast as a propeller plane.

I think the only thing that annoys me more is when they take a nickname or technique name as 100% True Facts so if somebody uses the "Lightspeed Step Technique" or someone is named "Lightspeed Joe" or some **** they brush off any arguments to them not being FTL with "bro it's literally in the NAME bro how are you this dense bruh".

Touhou gets this really bad. I've seen arguments that a character can destroy stars based entirely on them having an attack named "Starbow Break".

[137beth]

Many long-running comic characters have wildly inconsistent abilities, sometimes with the excuse that they temporarily died/lost their powers/etc.

Take Magneto for an example:

• Under one writer he can sense and control iron with surgical precision, to the point of controlling the blood in peoples' brains to make them hallucinate. He can't control anything other than iron, nor can he control things further than a few hundred feet.
• Under another writer he can control any object, regardless of whether it's made of metal, but doesn't have any special sensory abilities and can only control things he can see.
• Under another writer he can control metal objects from galaxies away, but takes an unspecified amount of time to lock onto them (possibly months or years, and may have needed outside help); he also has very little precision and can't control multiple objects at once nor anything smaller than his fist.

So a site like VS Battles will mix-and-match the strongest aspects of all three and declare that Magneto can casually mind control galaxies worth of people at once, even if there's never been any incarnation of Magneto who can do that.

You also have Magneto fighting other people whose own strength is wildly inconsistent - if writer #1 describes the Hulk's punches as "infinitely powerful" but writer #2 has non-powered civilians take punches from the Hulk without dying, then when writer #2 has Magneto tank a punch from the Hulk this becomes evidence that Magneto is "stronger than infinity".

And then there's people blatantly misreading events to inflate power levels. E.g. there was a comic where

• Magneto has constructed a space station with artificial gravity
• On this space station he builds a Danger Room - a chamber designed to simulate different enemies and environments.
• While training the X-Men in the Danger Room, he says "Good! But what if I effectively reverse gravity?" and the X-Men start floating into the air.

The logical conclusion would be that either Magneto turned off the Danger Room's artificial gravity, or was gently lifting them with magnetism to give them a feel for what fighting in inverted gravity would be like. But the VS Battles conclusion was that this proves Magneto is capable of destroying universes - because clearly he has the power to control gravity (which he has never mentioned before or since, despite boasting about his powers constantly) and people with gravity powers can destroy universes.

The Vs Battles wiki tries to get around this by separating comic book characters into different pages for different incarnations. For example, they have articles for five different "mainstream comics" versions of Superman, along with several from other media.

In the case of Magneto, they only have one article for the "mainstream comics" universe. That arguably should be split into several incarnations.

[DaedalusMkV]

Touhou gets this really bad. I've seen arguments that a character can destroy stars based entirely on them having an attack named "Starbow Break".

To be fair, by Touhou standards the ability to destroy stars isn't even particularly standout. Utsuho Reiuji is an upper-middle tier in terms of Touhou characters and her primary methods of attack are, for all intents and purposes, hydrogen bombs and throwing small stars at people. I can think of at least four Touhou characters, including Utsuho, who could snuff out a sun without too much trouble, and I'm not even particularly well-versed in Touhou lore.

Now, one of the problems in the Touhou fandom is that people forget the rules of Danmaku battles intentionally skew things to make it possible for, say, Cirno to operate in the same general ballpark as Yukari Yakumo or Flandre Scarlet. You can't and shouldn't transitive property Touhou characters. Marisa is one of the top dogs because she's perfectly suited to the rules by which conflicts are resolved in-setting, not because she actually has the power to beat on people who are basically gods.

[Bartmanhomer]

Yes, this is an issue when it comes to power-scaling characters in VS Battles Wiki.

[Forum Explorer]

My biggest Vs Battle pet peeve is when people take a travel speed and say they can fight and react at that speed. Its so frustrating because everyone should be able to understand this. A plane travels hundreds of kilometers per hour. That doesn't mean pilots have super insane reaction speeds. There's just nearly nothing in the sky for them to hit.

[awa]

My biggest Vs Battle pet peeve is when people take a travel speed and say they can fight and react at that speed. Its so frustrating because everyone should be able to understand this. A plane travels hundreds of kilometers per hour. That doesn't mean pilots have super insane reaction speeds. There's just nearly nothing in the sky for them to hit.

100% agree, drives me nuts.

[The Glyphstone]

I remember someone on these very forums who argued, with all seriousness, that Dora The Explorer was a deity-tier character because she could pull the sun out of the sky.

[Peelee]

I remember someone on these very forums who argued, with all seriousness, that Dora The Explorer was a deity-tier character because she could pull the sun out of the sky.

That's not even terribly impressive - you can Iron Heart Surge the sun at what, level 5?

[Rynjin]

I remember someone on these very forums who argued, with all seriousness, that Dora The Explorer was a deity-tier character because she could pull the sun out of the sky.

Hey now, that's a different story. Toon Force is some REAL **** when it comes to power level.

[Eldan]

Plus as a character for very small children, she has Genre Force and can never really be hurt.

[Willie the Duck]

I was checking the VS Battles Wiki to search for some fighters such as Yu-Gi-Oh Dark Magician and Exodia The Forbidden One and both of them are Tier 2-C which have the powers and durability of a low multiverse level. I say what?! I can see that Exodia is a 2-C but there's no way that the Dark Magician is a 2-C. In the card game and anime, Dark Magician's attack power is 2500 and his defense power is 2100. The Dark Magician can't be evenly matched with Exodia. What does everyone think of the Vs Battle Wiki?

On top of what people have mentioned, it's important to realize that any kind of 'vs.' fandom competition is going to have a huge popularityinvestment contest element. If a character is really really popular, or it is possible to interpret them winning a fandom competition as saying something about the participants*, then they are going to have a higher score. There will be more people with a vested interest with more free time to find additional data points to selectively present to support their chosen champion.
*an example being lots of people who were bright, nerdy kids growing up seem to really like it when characters defined by being geniuses/able to out-think/out-plan everyone else -- like Batman or Iron Man -- succeed

[Batcathat]

*an example being lots of people who were bright, nerdy kids growing up seem to really like it when characters defined by being geniuses/able to out-think/out-plan everyone else -- like Batman or Iron Man -- succeed

What annoys me most about this one is that it frequently doesn't have the smart people acting very smart. I could buy Batman defeating Superman (for all his power, Superman has some glaring weaknesses and tends to fight like an idiot) but it should be done by clever traps and ambushes, not by literally fist-fighting a god.

[LibraryOgre]

That's not even terribly impressive - you can Iron Heart Surge the sun at what, level 5?

"The sun is affecting me, so I use Iron Heart Surge to put out the sun?"

As, all the vampires have ever needed was a Warblade?

[Peelee]

"The sun is affecting me, so I use Iron Heart Surge to put out the sun?"

As, all the vampires have ever needed was a Warblade?

Easy peasy!

[The Glyphstone]

That's not even terribly impressive - you can Iron Heart Surge the sun at what, level 5?

Extinguishing the sun is apparently different than physically moving it, because a cartoonish stylized representation of a star that weighs 2.192×10^27 tons requires Class Omega Infinity++ grade Telekinesis to move. Or something like that.

And yeah, Bugs Bunny was noted by this same poster as the only character whose feats exceeded Dora.

[Peelee]

Extinguishing the sun is apparently different than physically moving it, because a cartoonish stylized representation of a star that weighs 2.192×10^27 tons requires Class Omega Infinity++ grade Telekinesis to move. Or something like that.

And yeah, Bugs Bunny was noted by this same poster as the only character whose feats exceeded Dora.

I assume this person never thought of the hypothesis that Dora lives on a flat earth, where the sun is much smaller and closer to the ground?

[The Glyphstone]

Probably not, because that would go against the entire ethos of VS battles as discussed previously, where cherry-picking the strongest interpretations of everything is default.

[137beth]

So who would win in a fight between a Bartmanhomer thread and a The Glyphstone thread? I'm going to conflate all BMH threads and treat them as a single character, and I will likewise conflate all TGS threads.

Someone in a BMH thread said the words "faster than light," so the BMH thread can move faster than light. Also the BMH thread is a dragon god and has the benefits of being Ash Ketchum's starter pokemon. Also BMH is the ultimate quadrillionaire, so the BMH thread can buy whatever resources he needs.

On the other hand, the The Gylphstone Thread has limited options. While the TGS thread does have the power of Hell on his side, he also has the power of Artemis Fowl. I know nothing about Artemis Fowl, but I do know that they share a name with an OOTS character who was killed by the Snarl. Therefore I conclude the TGS thread must be really weak.

You may note that "limited options" is also a phrase that appears in a BMH thread (this one, in particular), but I'm going to ignore the implications of that observation.

The Bartmanhomer thread wins easily.

[LibraryOgre]

The Bartmanhomer thread wins easily.

You forget that a The Glyphstone Thread has the power to delete a Bartmanhomer thread.

Fatality. Flawless victory.


...I'll be honest, the puckish part of me wants to lock the thread, right here, and refuse to explain myself.

[Peelee]

You forget that a The Glyphstone Thread has the power to delete a Bartmanhomer thread.

Fatality. Flawless victory.


...I'll be honest, the puckish part of me wants to lock the thread, right here, and refuse to explain myself.

I will now be selling tickets to the Mod Cage Match between LibraryOrge and The Glyphstone.

[137beth]

You forget that a The Glyphstone Thread has the power to delete a Bartmanhomer thread.

Fatality. Flawless victory.

May I put this in my extened sig?
I laughed pretty hard at this post.

[Bartmanhomer]

Great joke there everyone.