Skyrim III: Get rich selling protective knee gear!

[Avilan the Grey]

There is a large ship docked in Riften. Go to the ship's west most point (the bow I believe) and swim in the direction the boat is pointing. Look underwater and you should find a small boat wreckage.

Thank you!!

[Morph Bark]

If you use the Become Ethereal shout you can survive any fall and any damage, making it my favourite shout to use when fighting anything but dragons. Power attack? Ethereal. Fireballs? Ethereal? Need to go to the northern ice wastes for a quest and end up jumping off the cliff at winterhold? Ethereal.
Note: you can't shout while falling, you have to do it BEFORE you jump :p

Need mod to shout whilte falling. :p

FUS RO DAH THE GROUND.

Okay, so people in authority ask you to plunder tombs all the time and the people who'd bury their dead in there are long dead themselves, but still it seems like apart from the main quest there's little Truth, Justice and Imperial Way for a guy to crusade for. I guess the best way to say it is that there's no way to make things in Skyrim BETTER, only keep them from getting worse. And even then, you can actively make things worse by building the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood back up.

Well, out of the Factions there still are the Blades and the Bard's College. Can't go really wrong with those, though their questlines are much shorter since they feature less prominently.

I never understood that one. Polearms were the WORST weapons in Morrowind, by far, and yet people are raging at Bethesda for not having them in Oblivion, or Skyrim.

Skyrim is my first Elder Scrolls game, so eh. Besides, I figure mechanically they could have majorly improved it since then.

[Deth Muncher]

Besides, I figure mechanically they could have majorly improved it since then.

They certainly have the coding for polearms - at the very least, spears. See: New Vegas.

[Avilan the Grey]

Okay, so people in authority ask you to plunder tombs all the time and the people who'd bury their dead in there are long dead themselves

This I have no problems with:

First of all the population at large tells you that the old tombs have a problem with undead, and people are afraid of them (this is true).

Second, these tombs were are old enough that what you are doing is Archaeology, not Grave Robbing (see "Jones, Indiana").

Third, many of these tombs are deliberately built not only to hide away and protect certain things, but has clues and keys left behind on purpose so that the "right" individual, that deserves the knowledge, can find it again. That individual is you.
Basically, if you play a "Lawful Good" character, you do not plunder these tombs, you ONLY take what you came there for. Me, on the other hand, I steal everything I can carry. Except in two specific places, at least, that are important to my character (The Sepulcher and the Companions grave tomb).

Fourth, others are challenges constructed by, or under the influence by, the gods (or draedra) themselves.

[Ozymandias]

I never understood that one. Polearms were the WORST weapons in Morrowind, by far, and yet people are raging at Bethesda for not having them in Oblivion, or Skyrim.

Spears weren't bad in Morrowind, they only seemed that way because there were relatively few of them. Long and short blades were everywhere, and there were several really good blunt weapons, but to get a really good spear you had to do Sheogorath's quest. There was a good one in Tribunal, too, iirc.

They're certainly better than axes, in any case.

[Sipex]

It would seem my other post got ninja'd by the new thread. Not wanting to waste a good story, here it is:

Had the most amazing time playing this weekend and the best part is, I was only really questing for about 15% of the time.

It all started when, at level 8, I decided to go visit the College in Winterhold...

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First thing I do, since I feel rich and Whitehorse Whiterun (or whatever it's called) doesn't seem to have anything else worth buying for a mage, I spend what money I have left on a horse to accompany me on the journey and proceed to head out eastward.

Barely out of town an ice dragon lands and starts stirring up trouble. The guards all go beserk and start their thing, I run in, my horse runs in and then I accidentally fireball a guard. Suddenly I'm the bad guy and the guards introduce me to their weapons.

Reload and cross the same area, this time the dragon passes overhead but decides not to land.

I uncover some sort of temple on the road eastward and a blessing stone being guarded by a necromancer. A well placed Fire Rune spell later and I have some new robes I can leech a 75% increased mana regen off of for later. Turns out the Blessing Stone is necromancy by the way (shock).

En-route Northward I decide to veer off the main road to cut through the wilderness because travelling on the road is for ******* and almost immediately die from sudden cliffs a few times. Picking my way through the wilderness I finally cut across the river north (my horse can apparently swim).

Things start getting snowy and I come across an old fort of some kind which is not related to my journey in any way at all, so naturally I get off my horse and head right in. Some group called the Silver Hand has set up shop here (judging from what I've gleaned from a few posts, they're fairly major, eh?) and I'm not entirely sure why they want me dead on sight but they all have quite pricey armor so I'm happy to liberate it from their bodies.

Found a bunch of werewolf corpses and finally a living werewolf locked up in a cell. I try to talk to him and he's not really all that interested but since the lock is master level and I'm addicted to picking locks I open it thinking "Oh boy, now I get a new friend!"

One reloaded save later and I decide the werewolf can stay in his cell, no matter HOW hard the lock is to open. It's just not worth it.

Found some sort of boss at the end of this place, had a flaming axe. Not sure I was supposed to fight him yet since he'd kill me in two hits but I fought him (and died many times) before working out a winning strategy and getting some very nice gear off him which I'll leech the enchantments off of later.

Winning strategy:

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1) Cast Fire Rune between me and him.
2) Blast him with firebolt to lure him my way.
3) Run until my mana regens.
4) Repeat.

Finally reached Ulfric Stormcloak's city (can't remember the name offhand) after my excursion and kind of joined the Stormcloak Rebellion. Got asked to take out an Ice Wraith. Also, planted a ring in some woman's house and got paid to do it!

Didn't spend a long time here, was out before the day was done and back on the road.

Somehow ('somehow') I ended up in the middle of the mountains, far away from the road. This has nothing to do with a cave which I randomly decided I was going to hunt down. Ran into a group of bandits fighting a Snow Wolf or two. Joined sides with the bandits and killed the Snow Wolf...then killed the bandits.

Found a cave full of large, black centipede-like creatures who spit...something and the gollum-esque humanoids who live alongside them. Killed a few of both (although the humanoids were incredibly tough, doing 3/4ths my health in damage with a single arrow) before I was inevitably chased out of the caves. Marked the caves for future purging as I fled.

Found out just how hard Snow Wolves are when you don't have a group of bandits to weather the damage for you. Finally (after many tries) killed a group of two Snow Wolves and four Wolves by heroically perching on a stone, heroically out of reach and blasting them with fire...heroically.

Ran into a group of Companions fighting a couple Ice Wraiths. The Companions completely destroyed the Wraiths before I could react. Thank gods these weren't the Wraiths I was looking for...

Found an abandoned temple full of loot, now it's just an abandoned temple.

Found an abandoned camp with no loot but a single, random horse just sort of sitting around. No option to steal the horse either, just ride it. I wait for several in game hours to see if anyone shows up and nobody does. I determine the horse must've set up this camp himself and leave my horse alone with him to chill while I go swimming in ice water.

Figured out how to fill Soul Gems right around the time I ran into Horkers. Now I have a bunch of Horker souls trapped in gems.

Found out just how hard it is to take on an Ice Wraith. Even after taking a Frost Resistance Potion it manages to nearly kill me in one direct hit. I decide the best strategy is simply to not get hit and I proceed to take advantage of the fact that it seems to only be able to shoot bursts of cold in straight lines. Turn on Yakety-Sax while the next ten minutes consists of myself and the Wraith running up and down the island blasting fire and ice back and forth at each other. I won.

Found another cave completely by accident and not at all because I saw the marker and said to myself "Oooh! Cave!"

Met my first Troll (Frost Troll!) in said cave and managed to deplete his health by 3/4ths while kiting him around his lair. At this point I run into my second and third trolls who show me the meaning of teamwork like we're watching an anime re-dubbed by 4kids (Hint: It's not friendship). Cave is marked for purging at a much later time.

Come across a little cubby ruin where a bandit has set up shop and proceeds to attack me on sight. One Fire Rune spell later and I'm looting hefty amount of potions, alchemy ingrediants and recipes. Meanwhile, his buddy returns home wielding a magic greataxe and ambushes me at the entrance while I'm in the process of leaving. After a close battle I'm so encumbered by valuable (but heavy) gear that I can only walk a slow pace without my horse.

About 15 minutes outside Winterhold I come across a Fire Mage Apprentice and an Ice Mage Apprentice duelling. I sit on the sidelines and root for the Fire Mage since I'm kind of partial to fire spells at this time and he responds by losing by a landslide.

At this point the Ice Mage decides I'm next (although I'm not sure why) so I'm forced to take advantage of his low health and my full mana bar and eventually encumber myself even further.

What's sad is the Fire Mage probably would've attacked me too...

About 10 a minute walk (slow walk) outside Winterhold my horse and I get attacked by a pair of Snow Wolves. My horse is killed in the ensuing battle (does his health regen over time? He died really fast). I slowly, slowly walk the last 10 minutes to Winterhold.

Finished my journey at level 10.

TLDR; The best adventures are the ones you make up yourself.

[GungHo]

They're actually more-or-less all very pleasant and cordial people, with Babette being hands-down the single nicest character in Skyrim to be around. They just kill people; it's what they do. Adventurers in Skyrim kill people all the time and the Dark Brotherhood doesn't do so out of malice. It's just business, after all. I felt much closer to the Dark Brotherhood than I did any of the other factions. They really feel like a family, albeit a non-conventional one.

Hannibal Lecter is a nice guy too, but that doesn't mean that if he tells me "I'd like to have you over for dinner" that I'm going to say, "oooh, I'll bring the wine".

Exactly. Siding with the Empire is more or less the same as practicing religious persecution, and the Stormcloaks have a host of problems themselves...

It reminds me a lot of New Vegas in that sense. No major player is without some fault, though some are more up-front about their problems than others. Though, they don't get quite as fascist as the NCR or as repugnant as Caesar's Legion.

Say, I had a quick question: Is vampirism worth it? Worth the downsides, I mean? I'm playing a greatsword-swinging, bow-shooting, stealthy Nord, if it makes a difference.

No.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

No, spears sucked. The only redeeming feature is their reach. Long blade, blunt and axe all had better enchant value on the 2 handed (and some one handed) daedric versions. Plus the stab attack was the only one that did any damage. Other weapons did decent chop and slash damage.

[Archonic Energy]

I got Fined in Solitude for...

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killing the Emperor

... on a Dark Brotherhood mission, no witnesses. so i paid the 1040 fine so i could see my wife & get to my weapon stores...

now, where can i steal 1040 from...

[Sipex]

I got Fined in Solitude for...

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killing the Emperor

... on a Dark Brotherhood mission, no witnesses. so i paid the 1040 fine so i could see my wife & get to my weapon stores...

now, where can i steal 1040 from...

I'd like to see how that conversation would've gone in a D&D game.

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You: "So...I...uh...heard someone, not me, killed the emperor while no witnesses were around."
Guard: "Yeah, there's a 1000 gold bounty on your his head."
You: "Really? That's it? For killing an Emperor? If I were the theoretical assassin, which I'm not, I could just pay it off, like that?"
Guard: "He took away casual Fridays so we weren't all that jazzed about him anyways."
You: "Awesome. So...uh...I'd like to pay off this mysterious assassin's fine, who isn't me. I just feel like dropping 1000 gold on something which would not affect me at all."
Guard: "You just happen to have 1000 gold to drop on a bounty?"
You: "Who doesn't?"

[Tome]

I got Fined in Solitude for...

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killing the Emperor

... on a Dark Brotherhood mission, no witnesses. so i paid the 1040 fine so i could see my wife & get to my weapon stores...

now, where can i steal 1040 from...

Sounds a bit like the 40 gold "getting Thalmor blood on my nice clean carpets" fine you get for beating the Thalmor ambassador to death.

[Gaius Marius]

Again, probably bugs, but entirely immersion-friendly..

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Okay, first: If you don't want that bar brawl mission for them, get your first mission from Aela rather than Farkas - Aela's is far simpler: an animal's gotten into someone's house. Kill it. You're helping someone who would die if they dared enter their own house. Good for you, have a brownie.

Farkas's brawl job is nowhere NEAR morally underhanded. It's a perfectly acceptable avenue of conflict resolution in the Nord mind, and I've never seen that quest point to a non-Nord, yet. (Some women, yes, but Nord women respect the tradition as much as the men and have no reservations about entering the ring.)

But the big thing, the really big thing, about the Companions is that they aren't monsters. Yeah, they're werewolves, but they don't let the blood control them - they hone it into a weapon and wield it with all the care, precision, and discipline they would a sword. That is what the Silver Hand never bothers to understand, that the Companions aren't the enemy. Feral werewolves are a problem, but the Companions extremely picky about who they let into the group, much less who the choose to upgrade - nobody who gets that far in the group lacks the self-control needed to dominate the beast blood. They are also very tightly knit, and respond strongly to one of their own being attacked.

As for being a lawful-good type, I think my first guy fit the bill pretty well:

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* Joined the College - there's very little morally questionable here.
* Joined the Legion - fought for the rightful ruler who best served the people.
* Joined the Companions - good men and women who do honorable work for good coin. Bit of a blood war breaks out, but while both sides are responsible for escalating it, it was the opposition that started it.
* Declared war on the Dark Brotherhood.
* Helped Meridia and Azura, the good Daedra. Gave the others the finger. (Well, other than Sheogorath, I guess. Can't say no to a whimsical scot.)
* Worked in good faith with the Jarls of Whiterun and Morthal - good people looking after their own.
* Completed the main quest - worked for the betterment of all sides (except Ulfric personally), saved the day, but refused to choose vengeance over earnestly sought redemption.

That still leaves the question of the Thieves Guild. You can't just ignore them, since Brynjolf accosts you after you spend some time in Riften, and you need to work with the Thieves Guild to find Esbern anyway.

[Opperhapsen]

Completely unrelated, but is it possible to play Skyrim as a "Lawful Good" person? It seems the majority of the quests involve murdering people (Dark Brotherhood), burglary and thuggery (Thieves' Guild), just plain thuggery as well as turning into a monster (Companions), tomb robbing (College of Winterhold as well as a number of other sidequests) and various horrendous acts like cannibalism and human sacrifice (Daedric quests).

It seems like there's no way to play a paladin in Skyrim at all.

The companions are not thugs.
Their entire thing is that they're honourable mercenaries. (The bar brawl for example is you serving as a champion in someone else's fight, a totally legit thing in Skyrim that not even the person you fight complains about)
They don't take any crap from anyone, but they don't hurt the innocent, they don't steal, and they aren't assassins.

The "grave robbing" for the College is only evil as far as archaeology as a discipline is evil.

The cannibalism skeeved me out, and is one of the reasons I cannot take Bethesda seriously in their fury against child murder mods.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Do you know why there's a Thieves Guild at all? And why they wear uniforms, especially uniforms that guards can recognize?
A person in authority (I believe it to be a jarl or a steward) once told me. You see, the Thieves Guild keeps the other thieves in line. They keep thievery stable, and prevent other forces of instability from moving in. Thievery is only one part of the Thieves Guild. The other part is keeping the non-union bandits and thieves in line. They do this with the full support and acknowledgement of the authorities in the region, and in return they are allowed leeway when it comes to their own criminal activities. After all, the Thieves Guild has rules, punishes you when you don't follow those rules, and doesn't kill people. They also preach loyalty, obedience, and don't do anything to fundamentally overthrow the powers that be.

You're still promoting crime in the area by stealing things, planting false evidence to get innocent people arrested, altering peoples' business ledgers so their business loses money because you're skimming from it, and in the beginning basically making every good person in Riften hate you.

[nhbdy]

You're still promoting crime in the area by stealing things, planting false evidence to get innocent people arrested, altering peoples' business ledgers so their business loses money because you're skimming from it, and in the beginning basically making every good person in Riften hate you.

well the only thing you HAVE to do for the thieves guild is the planting of the ring, while it is evil, I think if you hang around you can talk to the guard about it (that arrests the guy you framed, but this is pure hearsay, untested on my part) and even it could be viewed as a necessary evil, or you could ignore them entirely and slog through the ratway until you find esbern yourself

[Gaelbert]

You're still promoting crime in the area by stealing things, planting false evidence to get innocent people arrested, altering peoples' business ledgers so their business loses money because you're skimming from it, and in the beginning basically making every good person in Riften hate you.

Innocent people? You frame people for crimes they didn't commit, in order to get them punished for crimes they did commit.
I'm not necessarily trying to justify their actions, just to point out that the Thieves Guild fits within a somewhat lawful framework.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Innocent people? You frame people for crimes they didn't commit, in order to get them punished for crimes they did commit.

What?

[Opperhapsen]

well the only thing you HAVE to do for the thieves guild is the planting of the ring, while it is evil, I think if you hang around you can talk to the guard about it (that arrests the guy you framed, but this is pure hearsay, untested on my part) and even it could be viewed as a necessary evil, or you could ignore them entirely and slog through the ratway until you find esbern yourself

Uhm.
No.
It's not pure hear-say.
He's right there, in the dungeon.
And Esbern won't open the door until you get the information from Brynjolf.

Innocent people? You frame people for crimes they didn't commit, in order to get them punished for crimes they did commit.
I'm not necessarily trying to justify their actions, just to point out that the Thieves Guild fits within a somewhat lawful framework.

Brand Shei was just some guy trying to find out who he is.

Do you know why there's a Thieves Guild at all? And why they wear uniforms, especially uniforms that guards can recognize?
A person in authority (I believe it to be a jarl or a steward) once told me. You see, the Thieves Guild keeps the other thieves in line. They keep thievery stable, and prevent other forces of instability from moving in. Thievery is only one part of the Thieves Guild. The other part is keeping the non-union bandits and thieves in line. They do this with the full support and acknowledgement of the authorities in the region, and in return they are allowed leeway when it comes to their own criminal activities. After all, the Thieves Guild has rules, punishes you when you don't follow those rules, and doesn't kill people. They also preach loyalty, obedience, and don't do anything to fundamentally overthrow the powers that be.

So it's okay because the Corrupt jarl is okay with it?
What..
What kind of logic is that?

[Gaelbert]

So it's okay because the Corrupt jarl is okay with it?
What..
What kind of logic is that?

I am trying to show that they can operate within a lawful framework, which doesn't at all mean I think it's okay. But the way some people are playing their characters, obeying authority is a virtue in its own right. So yes, for some people here it would be okay. (Without trying to restart the Empire v. Stormcloak argument, try to think for a second about what the Empire's rule in Skyrim is based on. [I'll give you a hint. It's not consent of the people, it starts with a "v" and rhymes with "iolence."] But yet the Empire is generally regarded here as the lawful good-est option.)

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Less evil way to get access to thieves guild.

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Do nothing. Don't steal the ring or at least don't plant it. You'll still get in. Then don't do any quests. You can still get into the flagon and talk to other mission critical NPCs for the dark brotherhood and main quest.

[Dhavaer]

And Esbern won't open the door until you get the information from Brynjolf.

Then you've run into a bug. Esbern will open the door with a Persuade check or Delphine's pass phrase.

[BladeofObliviom]

So, I have a question:

Using Oblivion as a baseline, how abusable is Skyrim's Magic System? In Oblivion, one could use a Drain Health 100 for 1 second spell to basically make melee weapons obsolete at a very low level, and such a spell would remain highly effective until level 30 or so.

Can you do silly things like that in Skyrim, or is it more balanced?

[Avaris]

I haven't played Skyrim, and won't do for a while (need a better PC), but I just wanted to say thanks to you guys for continuing to put spoilers in spoiler tags on this thread: I've been reading through it, and have got hints of the awesome without much stuff being spoiled.

Why am I saying this? Well, I just randomly opened one spoiler (in Archonic Energy's post above), and immediately saw why it was a spoiler... lesson learned, won't be doing that again

[Opperhapsen]

So, I have a question:

Using Oblivion as a baseline, how abusable is Skyrim's Magic System? In Oblivion, one could use a Drain Health 100 for 1 second spell to basically make melee weapons obsolete at a very low level, and such a spell would remain highly effective until level 30 or so.

Can you do silly things like that in Skyrim, or is it more balanced?

You cannot craft spells, and the default spells are... not very good at direct damage.
Spells are really best if you use them together with another approach.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Yeah, destruction spells don't scale very well. Still if you can get good enough enchanting, you can cast spells for free from a specific school. Casting Expert and Master level spells for free is pretty nice.

[LordShotGun]

Not being able to make spells is one of skyrims biggest faults IMO. I loved being able to play a cleric of sorts in oblivion (focusing on heavy armor, healing magic and buffs) and now it is practically impossible with healing spells that you can barely feel and an absence of most buff spells.

[GungHo]

Yeah, destruction spells don't scale very well.

There are mods for that but the scale problem for those goes the other way eventually and then you're like Cyclops at the Battle of Hastings.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Less evil way to get access to thieves guild.

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Do nothing. Don't steal the ring or at least don't plant it. You'll still get in. Then don't do any quests. You can still get into the flagon and talk to other mission critical NPCs for the dark brotherhood and main quest.

That ignores the important parts of the questline though. That's my problem.

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I want to stop Mercer Frey. I want to make sure Galius gets justice and the Skeleton Key is returned to its rightful place. I want to pledge myself to Nocturnal (my character is very pious, even to the Daedra). I want, no, REALLY WANT that Amulet of Articulation you receive upon winning control of the Guild. But to get there, I have to do very un-heroic things, especially in the opening quest for it. It bugs me that every time I try to talk to Talen-Jei, Keirava, the owner of the Pawned Prawn, etc, all I'm met with is loathing.

My obsessive paladin-like, do-gooder nature is now conflicting with my obsessive completionist nature.

[Arcran]

Heh, who here ended up just killing all the Thalmor at the Embassy?