OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

[The_Weirdo]

So you admit Hilgya is an oppressor, much like her clan? Guess she should be killed, by your own logic.

Hardly. She didn't start it, after all.

[Keltest]

Hardly. She didn't start it, after all.

And that matters because...

[Peelee]

Nah. Who made the poor financial decision of marrying Hilgya off by force?

And we can tell it's a poor economic decision because it bankrupted them.

I'm impressed that you were able to define a circular argument while making a circular argument.

[The_Weirdo]

I'm impressed that you were able to define a circular argument while making a circular argument.

Well, is having married Hilgya off the root cause of them being bankrupt?

[Ruck]

Except I dislike them for a reason.

Where did I say anything about who you dislike? Read it again since you're apparently struggling:

The Weirdo's morality is "anyone I like can do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whomever they want."

[Keltest]

Well, is having married Hilgya off the root cause of them being bankrupt?

Im pretty sure Hilgya maliciously manipulating their perceptions is the root cause of them being bankrupt.

[The_Weirdo]

Im pretty sure Hilgya maliciously manipulating their perceptions is the root cause of them being bankrupt.

And did she do that in a vacuum?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Great, we've got our answer. The Weirdo's morality is "anyone I like can do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whomever they want." I assume everyone else can see why this is obviously abhorrent and unsustainable, so can we move on?

Unlikely. We have known that was the case since three or four "TW takes over a thread to try to justify Hilgya's atrocities as not being Evil because he likes Hilgya" back, and hasn't changed a thing.

Grey Wolf

[Keltest]

And did she do that in a vacuum?

Nothing happens in a vacuum, but you seem perfectly willing to treat Hilgya's actions as such.

[Kish]

And did she do that in a vacuum?

This is a lot like Tarquin's "Hey, I didn't lie! I just said the troops would be there, you assumed they'd be helping you" thing: Only you think it matters.

[zimmerwald1915]

What is sad about this whole intervention is that has led most of the forum to sympathize with rich people losing their accumulated/inherited wealth.

To another rich person, admittedly (Hilgya's an adventurer; a single magic item of hers could have probably paid her legal fees), but still. My heart, at least, fails to bleed.

[Peelee]

Well, is having married Hilgya off the root cause of them being bankrupt?

According to you, the gods are, so she went after an illegitimate target. Either that, or everyone she has wronged can kill her for what she did to them and you can't say boo. Funny that your own arguments put her in the wrong no matter what, isn't it?

[Kish]

What is sad about this whole intervention is that has led most of the forum to sympathize with rich people losing their accumulated/inherited wealth.

To another rich person, admittedly (Hilgya's an adventurer; a single magic item of hers could have probably paid her legal fees), but still. My heart, at least, fails to bleed.

This is, in general, the biggest problem with The_Weirdo's posts.

If my saying I dislike Hilgya because of him looked like joking, that's misleading, for it's not. Right now, if the next strip featured her dying horribly and going to Hel, I'd grin, where if The_Weirdo had never posted here, I'd be horrified by that.

The good news, such as it is, is that I'm fairly confident this effect will wear off within a few weeks of him largely ceasing to post once the spotlight's no longer on Hilgya--for me, at least.

[D.One]

Hardly. She didn't start it, after all.

I find specially amusing that 1st grade logic "he/she started it" is the core of this argument, but given what you have said, and what can be understood without saying, it fits perfectly.

[Rrmcklin]

What is sad about this whole intervention is that has led most of the forum to sympathize with rich people losing their accumulated/inherited wealth.

To another rich person, admittedly (Hilgya's an adventurer; a single magic item of hers could have probably paid her legal fees), but still. My heart, at least, fails to bleed.

When was it ever said Hilgya's family was rich?

Edit: If it's because Hilgya now has more than enough money to live off of, I imagine only having to care for two people is much easier than however big their clan is.

[hroþila]

When was it ever said Hilgya's family was rich?

It's a reasonable hypothesis. The Firehelms no longer having money seemed to be the reason why Ivan's clan didn't contest the divorce, which would suggest money was what they were bringing into the agreement, and once they didn't have it Ivan's clan had no incentive to keep the marriage going. In turn, this might suggest that Ivan's clan was more prominent and prestigious (thus providing a rationale for the Firehelms to want to intermarry), but perhaps no longer wealthy.

[rbetieh]

What is sad about this whole intervention is that has led most of the forum to sympathize with rich people losing their accumulated/inherited wealth.

To another rich person, admittedly (Hilgya's an adventurer; a single magic item of hers could have probably paid her legal fees), but still. My heart, at least, fails to bleed.

I was always sad when Mr Scrooge lost his money in some episodes of Ducktales... I guess it depends on the rich guy... I mean it did always feel like he earned every penny...

[Peelee]

I was always sad when Mr Scrooge lost his money in some episodes of Ducktales... I guess it depends on the rich guy... I mean it did always feel like he earned every penny...

He made his money the old-fashioned way: hegotrunoverbyaLEXUS luck. Not the biggest fan, but that line was golden.

In 1898, after many adventures he finally ends up in Klondike, where he finds a golden rock the size of a goose's egg. By the following year he had made his first $1,000,000 and bought the deed for Killmule Hill from Casey Coot, the son of Clinton Coot and grandson of Cornelius Coot, the founder of Duckburg.

[Fyraltari]

He made his money the old-fashioned way: hegotrunoverbyaLEXUS luck. Not the biggest fan, but that line was golden.

And questionable business and work ethics.

[Lacuna Caster]

Yes, well. Good or Evil, authoritarians like Miko deserve what she got.

Well, we very much are talking about a city that claims pretend-jurisdiction outside its borders. That by itself renders the entire system invalid.

Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

Isn't that interesting? From bringing it up to demand hamishspence stop disagreeing with you, to "let's move on" just like that when challenged to actually support your claims rather than asserting them.

Because you're not bringing anything new to the discussion, Kish. It would serve no purpose to debate you when you're just skipping back on an old groove.

The 'problem' with Tippyverse is that it assumes a large number of capable spellcasters and that this large number invariably chooses to focus their studies and their time and their interests towards exactly the goals of showing up certain issues.

I'm not assuming Tippyverse conditions. I'm assuming that the leader of one of the largest nations on the face of the planet, while investigating an event that might threaten universal destruction, would reasonably consider time and distance to be factors important enough that he would actually employ the Teleport services that we know, within the same story, he had available to him, in order to ensure that Miko doesn't waste weeks of everyone's time, not least her own, trekking overland to find people.

[Fyraltari]

Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

That lasted about as long as I expected it to.

[Rrmcklin]

It's a reasonable hypothesis. The Firehelms no longer having money seemed to be the reason why Ivan's clan didn't contest the divorce, which would suggest money was what they were bringing into the agreement, and once they didn't have it Ivan's clan had no incentive to keep the marriage going. In turn, this might suggest that Ivan's clan was more prominent and prestigious (thus providing a rationale for the Firehelms to want to intermarry), but perhaps no longer wealthy.

Fair point. Still, I feel like the large point is that bankrupting people and condemning them to poverty is generally a bad thing. How much money they had before becomes a bit irrelevant, doesn't it?

[Peelee]

Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

It was doomed once The_Weirdo realized an alliance would necessitate being a group, I'd reckon.

[Potatopeelerkin]

To be honest, all your arguments with The_Weirdo look so similar I can't tell if I'm reading new posts or I've accidentally skipped back to an older page and am reading those. Haven't all these arguments been hashed out already?

This is, in general, the biggest problem with The_Weirdo's posts.

If my saying I dislike Hilgya because of him looked like joking, that's misleading, for it's not. Right now, if the next strip featured her dying horribly and going to Hel, I'd grin, where if The_Weirdo had never posted here, I'd be horrified by that.

The good news, such as it is, is that I'm fairly confident this effect will wear off within a few weeks of him largely ceasing to post once the spotlight's no longer on Hilgya--for me, at least.

I would suggest you stop arguing with him, in that case. Hilgya didn't ask for The_Weirdo's defence. If it starts to affect your enjoyment of the comic, that's when you know it's time to stop.

My suggestion is, next time The_Weirdo posts something ridiculous, we don't all take the bait and pile on him for pages. Can we talk about something else now?

[Peelee]

My suggestion is, next time The_Weirdo posts something ridiculous, we don't all take the bait and pile on him for pages. Can we talk about something else now?

Even though I'm absolutely guilty myself, while I certainly agree with that notion, you're far from the first person to propose it. Not even the first in this thread, at that.

[Potatopeelerkin]

Even though I'm absolutely guilty myself, while I certainly agree with that notion, you're far from the first person to propose it. Not even the first in this thread, at that.

Oh, I know. I just feel like it's worth suggesting again, seeing as it obviously didn't happen the first time.

[Peelee]

Oh, I know. I just feel like it's worth suggesting again, seeing as it obviously didn't happen the first time.

Fight the good fight, sister!

[The_Weirdo]

Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

Oh, so you're pro-Miko and pro-AC?

Ah well. It was good while it lasted.

We'll always have Alien and Predator playing tennis and having fun at the carousel.

[Doug Lampert]

My suggestion is, next time The_Weirdo posts something ridiculous, we don't all take the bait and pile on him for pages. Can we talk about something else now?

My suggestion for those unable to not take the bait. There is this feature called an "ignore list".

Click on a poster's user name where it occurs next to their post. Select "View Profile".

This will take you to a page that shows their posts and activity, and has options for other things, such as, "Add to Ignore List".

Click on that, then when it says "Are you sure you want to add <name> to your ignore list?" click on yes.

From then on you will not see that poster's posts, instead you will see a notice that "This message is hidden because <name> is on your ignore list."

Then you'll see everything they post in all the replies from people not on your ignore list, but at least you won't see their posts directly, and it's easy to not read the quoted text in replies.

[Lacuna Caster]

Oh, so you're pro-Miko and pro-AC?

I am... pro-being-fair-to-Miko. I think she's a multifaceted character who got a worse rap than she deserved, but I don't think everything she did was optimal or justified. I would say we know less about Azure City more generally, but I suspect something similar might be said about it's culture and legal system.

But... yeah, Miko is kinda my thing. What did you think the avatar was about? Was that not a clue?