Results 31 to 52 of 52
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2019-10-18, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
This is valid analysis, but IMO taking out 30-40% of party HP in one round is far from the worst thing that can happen to a party, considering that this encounter costs about 30% of your XP budget IIRC and that the party can rest and break between encounters (so it's only 15-20% of total party HP counting HD healing). Of course more damage will be inflicted, on both sides, before the encounter is over, but getting paralyzed and critted by Star Spawn Manglers would take out closer to 100% of party HP (i.e. anyone who failed their save and was paralyzed is down, and maybe even some PCs who made their saves); getting hit by multiple banshees or intellect devourers could potentially be even worse.
It's a good encounter but it remains to be seen whether it will be one of the deadliest/most efficient. :) Keep 'em coming!Last edited by MaxWilson; 2019-10-18 at 03:33 PM.
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2019-10-18, 04:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
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2019-10-19, 12:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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- Indiana
- Gender
Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
A coven of sea hags: 1,350 xp = 2,700 adjusted, an easy encounter and ~9% of the total XP budget
That's 3 potential reactions to counterspell the party and 3 potential lightning bolts, up to 24d6 or 84 average damage on 3 failed saves or 42 average damage on 3 successful saves to at least 1 party member.
If anyone starts within 30 ft of the hag, they could potentially become frightened at the beginning of the fight. If anyone is frightened, a hag could try to Death Glare it to 0 hit points. However, this is an easy save to make as a DC 11 wisdom save.
They also have option of casting hold person at a higher spell level to catch multiple PCs if they happen to be within 30 ft of each other on later rounds.
This encounter could easily be overcome if 1 hag is killed immediately, breaking the coven. Due to the cheapness of the XP and the yolo nature of their potentially massive damage and/or death glare, I think it could be worthy of inclusion.
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2019-10-19, 12:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
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2019-10-20, 11:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
- Location
- Indiana
- Gender
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2019-10-20, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
Last edited by MaxWilson; 2019-10-20 at 06:55 PM.
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2019-10-22, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
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2019-10-22, 09:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
Thinking about this more: the simplest (not necessarily best) version of this test would probably be something like two Samurai and two Beastmasters with wolf companions, all with CE + Sharpshooter, using Healing Spirit + Goodberry between fights to heal. Samurai close and tank, Rangers hang back and cast Spike Growth or Conjure Animals in tough fights.
A second version should have more spellcasters, e.g. a Hexblade 2/Divine Soul 7 with Polymorph, a Battlemaster Sharpshooter, a Shepherd Druid, and an Enchanter 8/Forge Cleric 1.
What kind of stats would be interesting to see? Maybe resources lost on average in each fight, and how far the party made it before dying?
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2019-10-22, 11:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
That's close to optimized for the environment, as there's no cover, outranging, or ambush that the arena critters could do. Honestly, I think a good litmus test is Samurai, Arcane Trickster, Life Cleric, and Evocation Wizard. Core rules, iconic party, leans into the class's strengths, good mix of short and long rest recharge abilities.
Interesting stats, I think, would be length of combat; total rounds each character was standing; resources remaining at character death (HD, slots, etc), and number of resources expended per fight. If we see casters die with a lot of resources still intact, we learn something very different than if they were killed for being out of slots. I'd also be interested in resources lost per fight, but primarily to see resources burned over XP budget burned. See what's deadliest for CR, and all that.
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2019-10-22, 11:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
Hmmm. I don't really agree (optimal would be lots of Skulker and Mobile, and ranged combat is close to globally optimal for 5E; the arena is also small enough that it's hard to hold the range open against large numbers of enemies; and Beastmasters are never really optimal) but in the interest of reaching a rough consensus: what if we then swap the Sharpshooter Samurais for GWM/PAM Barbearians while leaving the Beastmasters unchanged? I don't want to gimp the simple party too hard, I just want to make them simple to referee: pick a monster and hammer it until dead.
Honestly, I think a good litmus test is Samurai, Arcane Trickster, Life Cleric, and Evocation Wizard. Core rules, iconic party, leans into the class's strengths, good mix of short and long rest recharge abilities.
Interesting stats, I think, would be length of combat; total rounds each character was standing; resources remaining at character death (HD, slots, etc), and number of resources expended per fight. If we see casters die with a lot of resources still intact, we learn something very different than if they were killed for being out of slots. I'd also be interested in resources lost per fight, but primarily to see resources burned over XP budget burned. See what's deadliest for CR, and all that.
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2019-10-23, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
I think party composition, how far they get/what state they are in at the end, total number of short rests, would be interesting stats.
And perhaps a sentence or two for each room/encounter to show the highlights of the arena run.
The idea of resources remaining at character death is also very interesting.Last edited by Waar; 2019-10-23 at 01:04 PM.
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2019-10-23, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
Sounds good!
Sure.
Evoker: Defensive Spells Known: Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb Elements, Mage Armor, Misty Step, Counterspell
Offensive: Thunderwave, Dragon's Breath, Fireball, Banishment, Wall of Force.
Cantrips: Firebolt, Toll the Dead
Int 20/Con, Dex 16/ other stats 10
Tactics:
If there is one enemy much stronger than the others, use Wall of Force or Banishment.
if there's a group of 3+ enemies to Fireball, do so.
If an enemy is cutting off a bloodied ally's retreat, Thunderwave them out.
Otherwise, Dragon Breath + cantrips
Life Cleric: Spells Known: Bless, Aid, Lesser Restoration, Spirit Weapons, Mass Healing Word, Spirit Guardians, Banishment
Wis 20/Str, Con 16/ others 10
Pre combat: use Aid on all party members other than Samurai. Use Spirit Guardians at level
Combat: If 2+ party members are around or below 1/3rd health, Channel Divinity or MHW as appropriate.
If 3+ targets are susceptible, use turn/destroy undead.
If 1-2 enemies are notably stronger than others, Banishment.
Otherwise, cast appropriate Spirit Guardians or Bless.
If it's already up, make attack and Spiritual Weapon attack.
Arcane Trickster:
Knows Absorb Elements, Web, Mirror Image
Cantrips: Booming, Greenflame Blades.
Dex 20/Int, Cha 16/others 10
If there's a group of 3+ enemies, Web
If not in sneak attack range, Mirror Image or Hideous Laughter
Otherwise, cantrip and SA.
Samurai: kill things with Sharpshooter or rapier.
Dex 20/Con, Wis 16/others 10Last edited by Fable Wright; 2019-10-23 at 02:49 PM.
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2019-10-23, 02:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
Hey Fable Wright, a couple of clarifying questions:
What does "at level" mean here? Highest-available level, or minimum level?
Arcane Trickster:
Knows Absorb Elements, Web, Mirror Image
Cantrips: Booming, Greenflame Blades.
Dex 20/Int, Cha 16/others 10
If there's a group of 3+ enemies, Web
If not in sneak attack range, Mirror Image or Hideous Laughter
Otherwise, cantrip and SA.
What equipment configuration does he have? Plate armor + hand crossbow? Studded leather + hand crossbow? I presume he'll never switch to rapier + shield configuration because that costs a round, only rapier + hand crossbow (as bonus action attack, if pre-loaded last round). Also, does he have Crossbow Expert or only Sharpshooter? Does he even move at all in an attempt to tank for the Evoker or Arcane Trickster, or just stand there and calmly shoot things?Last edited by MaxWilson; 2019-10-23 at 05:10 PM.
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2019-10-23, 05:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
I intended it to be "at a level commensurate to circumstances". It's one of those spells that scales remarkably well with level, so you neither want to waste a high level casting vs low HP mooks, nor a low level casting when it would do the most damage
It's to ensure Sneak Attack, primarily. Most enemies will be too scattered to Web round 1, and there will likely be SOME in melee in round 2, which allows shortbow/rapier sneak attack.
Let's go Studded Leather/Longbow/Bracers of Archery and use object interaction to swap longbow/rapier. Tanking is irrelevant in 5e as it's more about peel, and Samurai peels hard for allies with its damage.
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2019-10-23, 05:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
Okay, sounds good. No Crossbow Expert apparently, just Sharpshooter. Are there any other items you want the party to have, besides Bracers of Archery? If not I will just give them all the best-possible nonmagical equipment, e.g. plate armor for the cleric, studded leather + rapier for the Arcane Trickster
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2019-10-23, 06:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
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2019-11-11, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
I will post results here Saturday. Just posting this now to make sure that post won't violate the anti-thread necromancy rules.
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2019-11-12, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
In the spirit of the challenge, this gauntlet is genuinely designed to kill PCs. Wouldn't suggest anyone actually run it.
Round 1: 10x Quickling Exp: 2000
They are likely to win initiative, get three attacks with a decent modifier each. They are super, super fast so at the start one picks a target and they all mob that target with as many attacks as possible.
Round 2: 2x Young Remorhaz, Ankheg Exp: 4050
Softening round. Decent bruisers and an aoe attack. They are unlikely to kill anyone, but might sap some resources.
Round 3: 4x Flameskull Exp: 4400
Flameskulls pile fireballs on as many targets as they can. Boom. If they're still alive after this, they are at least a little crispy, and are getting softer.
Round 4: 8x Intellect Devourer Exp: 3600
If any of the party members are exceptionally stupid, this is just a delightful choice.
Round 5: 10x Shadow Exp: 1000
Unlikely to be deadly, but if any target looks especially weak, shadows ganging up on them could spell the end.
Round 6: 4x Hobgoblin Devastator Exp: 4400
And now we are arriving at the killer rounds. Like the flameskulls, these guys spam fireball on the party. It's a very effective tactic. By this point, even if they have healing spirit, they should be feeling drained and hurting.
Round 7: 2x Catoblepas, 4x Giant Poisonous Snake Exp: 3800
These goddamned murder cows. If a PC is currently at low hp, sorry PC, these are aiming death rays at you. Goodbye, PC. The snakes are just a little collection of surprisingly dangerous low cr minions.
Total XP: 23,250. Didn't use all of the xp, could have made another round, but honestly I think what I have here should murder your average group of level 9 characters consistently.
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2019-11-12, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
Last edited by MaxWilson; 2019-11-12 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Corrected strikeout spacing for readability
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2019-11-12, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
Last edited by Captain Panda; 2019-11-12 at 03:11 PM.
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2019-11-12, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
Yeah, I'm going off DMG standards in this thread: the goal is to make something that will fit within the Adjusted XP Per Day Per Character budget, as listed on the DMG charts, also here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/ba...bat-encounters
Last edited by MaxWilson; 2019-11-12 at 03:23 PM.
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2019-11-13, 03:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
Re: [DM challenge] What is the nastiest arena-style adventuring day you can create? L
wraith and shadows
May I borrow some bat guano? It's for a spell...