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A lot of people seem to feel that tier 3 is DND's sweet spot for fun: capable but not world-breaking. This leaves a hole in the divine slot, as there isn't much between Favored Soul and Healer. Enter the Village Priest -- intended to outshine the cleric on rare occasions, without being generally game-breaking.
Village Priest
They also serve, who... serve.
Not everyone who desires to serve a deity can spend years training, learning warfare and memorizing spell-lists. Some have communities that need them immediately. Others cannot find teachers. Some are simply impatient. For them exists the path of the Village Priest. It is path of less glory and power than that of the cleric, but life-affirming Village Priests are welcome anywhere, and the greatest of Priests can be as world-shaping as anyone.
Alignment: Village Priests have the same alignment restrictions as clerics. As this is the path of greater service and lessor power, good Priests are much more common than evil ones, except where racial deities are evil (such as among orcs).
Religion: Village Priests may serve any deity. The chaotic chuches tend to encourage this path more than the lawful ones.
Relations with Other Classes: Some clerics (especially in the church of Hextor) look down on Village Priests, but usually all in the service of the same deity recognize eachother as siblings.
level
bab
fort
ref
will
special
0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
1th
+0
+0
+0
+2
turn undead
6
4
2th
+1
+0
+0
+3
improved domain powers
6
5
3th
+1
+1
+1
+3
6
6
3
4th
+2
+1
+1
+4
devotion
6
6
4
5th
+2
+1
+1
+4
6
6
5
3
6th
+3
+2
+2
+5
advanced learning
6
6
6
4
7th
+3
+2
+2
+5
6
6
6
5
3
8th
+4
+2
+2
+6
devotion
6
6
6
6
4
9th
+4
+3
+3
+6
6
6
6
6
5
3
10th
+5
+3
+3
+7
advanced learning
6
6
6
6
6
4
11th
+5
+3
+3
+7
6
6
6
6
6
5
3
12th
+6/+1
+4
+4
+8
third domain
6
6
6
6
6
6
4
13th
+6/+1
+4
+4
+8
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
3
14th
+7/+2
+4
+4
+9
advanced learning
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
4
15th
+7/+2
+5
+5
+9
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
3
16th
+8/+3
+5
+5
+10
devotion
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
4
17th
+8/+3
+5
+5
+10
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
3
18th
+9/+4
+6
+6
+11
advanced learning
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
4
19th
+9/+4
+6
+6
+11
greater advanced learning
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
20th
+10/+5
+6
+6
+12
supreme advanced learning
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
Class Skills: Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge(religion), Heal, Sense Motive, Spellcraft Skill Points: 4+int Hit Dice: d6 Weapons and Armor: Village Priests are proficient with their deity's weapon as an (su) ability and with one chosen simple weapon as an (ex) ability. They are not proficient with any armor or shields. However, since they do not suffer spell failure and rarely use physical skills or weapons, they often wear heavy armor anyways.
Spellcasting: Wisdom determines what level spells a Village Priest can cast, their save DCs and any bonus spells. Like a beguiler, a Village Priest may cast any spell he knows without preperation, but has little control over which spells he knows. His available spells are the union of five lists:
Orisons: A Village Priest may cast any 0th level spell available to clerics.
Life or Death: A Priest who turns undead has access to the Life list. One who rebukes has access to the Death list. These are spells that are straightforward applications of positive or negative energy.
Life list:
Spoiler
1
Bless: Allies gain +1 on attack rolls and saves against fear.
Poison: Touch deals 1d10 Con damage, repeats in 1 min. 5
Inflict Light Wounds, Mass: Deals 1d8 damage +1/level to many creatures.
Slay Living: Touch attack kills subject.
Unhallow M: Designates location as unholy.
Symbol of Pain M: Triggered rune wracks nearby creatures with pain. 6
Antilife Shell: 10-ft. field hedges out living creatures.
Create Undead: Create ghouls, ghasts, mummies, or mohrgs.
Harm: Deals 10 points/level damage to target.
Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass: Deals 2d8 damage +1/level to many creatures. 7
Inflict Serious Wounds, Mass: Deals 3d8 damage +1/level to many creatures.
Destruction F: Kills subject and destroys remains.
Blood to Water: 2d6 Con damage 8
Inflict Critical Wounds, Mass: Deals 4d8 damage +1/level to many creatures.
Symbol of Death M: Triggered rune slays nearby creatures. 9
Implosion: Kills one creature/round.
Soul Bind F: Traps newly dead soul to prevent resurrection.
Alignment: A Village Priest is a champion of his alignment(s), and has spells based on it. Some of these spells are based on the priest's alignment and some on the opposite alignment. A priest who is neutral treats both ends of that axis as opposed (so a neutral good priest could cast protection from evil, chaos or law, but could only make a weapon good aligned). Some of these spells come with extra restrictions, limiting them to alignment-based uses.
Alignment list:
Spoiler
1
Detect Opposed Alignment: Reveals creatures, spells, or objects of selected alignment.
Protection from Opposed Alignment: +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge out elementals and outsiders. 2
Align Weapon: Weapon becomes your alignment 3
Magic Circle against Opposed Alignment: As protection spells, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level. 4
Dismissal: Forces a creature to return to native plane, but only if they have opposed alignment as a subtype 5
Atonement F X: Removes burden of misdeeds from subject, but only for a subject who wishes to be of your alignment*
Dispel Opposed Alignment: +4 bonus against attacks. 6
Banishment: Banishes 2 HD/level of extraplanar creatures, but only if they have opposed alignment as a subtype 7
Word of Alignment (aka Blasphemy/Holy Word/Dictum/Word of Chaos): Kills, paralyzes, weakens, or dazes non-agreeing subjects. 8
Cloak/Shield/Aura of alignment F: +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against opposed spells. 9
Miracle, but only for purposes in accordance with alignment*.
* For purposes of Atonement and Miracle, Priests of nature deities may treat reverence for nature as an alignment component.
Domains: A Priest begins with two domains and gains a third at 12th level. They must be from his deity's list, and represent his personal, spiritual focus. All these spells are added to his list.
Advanced Learning: At levels 6, 10, 14, and 18 a priest selects a single spell from the cleric list whose level is less than the highest he can cast. At level 19, he may select one of any level. At level 20, he may select one of any level from any divine list.
Turn Undead
A Village Priest turns or rebukes undead the same way that a cleric does, except that instead of having a daily limit, he must wait a given time between attempts for his internal energy to recover. The delay is determined by his charisma score at time of turning:
cha
wait time
< 6
1 hour
6 - 9
5 minutes
10 - 11
1 minute
12 - 13
1d8+1 rounds
14 - 15
1d6+1 rounds
16 - 17
1d4+1 rounds
18 - 19
1d3+1 rounds
20 - 21
1d2+1 rounds
22 - 25
2 rounds
> 25
1 round
Effects that would give you additional attempts per day (such as the Extra Turning feat) instead increase your effective charisma score by that amount for purposes of reset time. The time is the same whether the attempt was used on actual undead or for some other purpose (e.g. divine feats).
You may spend two turn attempts at once (to power a feat or special ability) but the recovery time is doubled. You may spend three but the recovery time is quadrupled. You may never spend more than three.
Improved Domain Powers: Each domain carries with it a special ability. For Village Priests, these abilities are enhanced. This applies to both starting domains and to additional domains gained later. The nature of the enhancement depends on the nature of the ability:
If the ability is usable a limited amount per day, a priest can replenish it (allowing another full day's usage) by meditating for five minutes.
If the ability is a numeric bonus, that bonus is increased by 50%, rounding up.
If skills are added to the priest's class list, he also gets a +3 sacred bonus on all checks to them.
If the priest can turn or rebuke non-undead, he gains a +4 bonus to caster level for purposes of those turnings (but not turning actual undead).
If the ability keys of half your class level, it now keys of of 3/4 your class level.
If the ability is a feat whose effects could be described by the preceding, apply the preceding.
If the ability is a feat that cannot be described by the preceding, gain another feat. If possible, the new feat should have the original feat as a prerequisite. If that is not possible, then the new feat should have the same descriptors as the original. If that is not possible, then any feat is permitted.
Devotion: At levels 4, 8 and 16, you gain a devotion feat associated with one of your domains. You need not meet the prerequisites. If you already have all devotion feats associated with your domains, you may instead take any feat for which you do meet the prerequisites.
So, this class spontaneously casts from 2 domains and has better powers for those domains (Time Domain gives both awesome spells and a +4 -> +8 bonus to initiative, making it an obvious choice). Advance learning allows you to pick up at least one combo, although doing so stops you from entering a prestige class. Lacks the battle prowess of the cleric and does end up with a very limited (if mighty) list.
How strong this class is pretty much depends on domain choice IMO. I think it is probably tier 2. Maybe tier 1.
If you pick bad domains and choose the wrong spells, okay, but even a wizard can choose the wrong spells.
Last edited by Magikeeper : 09-18-2010 at 11:50 PM.
I agree, it's definitely Tier 2. If it didn't get Domains at all, then it would be Tier 3. Actually, because of Advanced Learning it'd still be very much on the borderline (Tier 2 technically means you can break the game, which means if you can do it with one spell, once per day, you're still Tier 2. If there's a single Cleric spell that can break the game then this class is Tier 2).
I agree, it's definitely Tier 2. If it didn't get Domains at all, then it would be Tier 3. Actually, because of Advanced Learning it'd still be very much on the borderline (Tier 2 technically means you can break the game, which means if you can do it with one spell, once per day, you're still Tier 2. If there's a single Cleric spell that can break the game then this class is Tier 2).
It's a pretty good idea though to start with.
No, that's not what Tier 2 means. I've seen JaronK explain this like a dozen times now. Tier 2 means you can perform all the tricks of a Tier 1 character, but where a Tier 1 character has the flexibility to bounce around between those tricks at will, a Tier 2 character is limited to only one or two tricks, usually due to spells/powers known limitations. The Tier System is versatility based.
Anyways, to the class. I would definitely suggest Advanced Learning either needs to go away or be drastically cut back. Perhaps only three times total and nix the level 20 version. In addition, if they only start with a single domain and get one additional domain at level 10, that might be better from a power standpoint. Otherwise, I like it. I might change the Imp. Domain Power x2 bonus to a x1.5 bonus instead, but that's just me.
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Lovely Thaxos, Elder Serpent avatar by Vaynor! Thanks for letting me know man!
Tier 2 means that, mechanically, your class has all of the same powers available to it as a Tier 1 class, but that YOU as an actual character have access to only a fraction of those powers as compared with the Tier 1 character available at any given time. This specifically means that it's very likely that you don't actually have all of the same "tricks" as the Tier 1 classes, because of whatever limitations your class has, you may not be able to combine your powers for even greater benefit.
Quote:
Tier 2 technically means you can break the game, which means if you can do it with one spell, once per day, you're still Tier 2. If there's a single Cleric spell that can break the game then this class is Tier 2.
What about this actually disagrees with what you said? I mean, I guess I wasn't all that clear about what I was saying. Tier 2 has devastating power just like Tier 1, however it doesn't have as many devastating powers all at once as the Tier 1s. Tier 3s ARE versatile. You don't get to be Tier 2 just because you're versatile. A class is Tier 2 if it's versatile AND it has access to REAL ULTIMATE POWER!!
Clerics are Tier 1 because of their ability to Divine Persist multiple super-buffs and Divine Quicken the other powerful non-buff spells. This is not just a Tier 3 class because it has Turn Undead and whatever Cleric spells it wants, giving it access to all the same "tricks" just not all of them at the same time. Like the Sorcerer, this class has very limited spells known, and is thus Tier 2.
A Cleric without access to Turn Undead at all, and a spell-list as limited as this one's might actually make it down as far as Tier 3.
What if someone already IS of their alignment, and just needs to get class features back? I would think they should be able to handle an Atonement for that.
What if someone already IS of their alignment, and just needs to get class features back? I would think they should be able to handle an Atonement for that.
Then presumably they also wish to be of that alignment.
Perhaps this could have been phrased better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Bark
One big thing you forgot: what casting stat do they use?
Wisdom
Quote:
Originally Posted by arguskos
Anyways, to the class. I would definitely suggest Advanced Learning either needs to go away or be drastically cut back.
How about if you could only advance learn spells a level below max known?
I don't want to weaken the capstone, because it's the only thing keeping people out of contemplative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbuck_II
Death seems weaker than Life. Lige has Vigor spells.
There are a bunch of spells without opposites, mostly on the life side (though death has Symbol of Pain and Animate Dead). I considered creating opposites, but it didn't seem worth it. Also, an opposite of Lesser Restoration would be too powerful.
Yeah, the tier system doesn't actually measure power per se.
I think the 3 domains thing is mostly about adding some more spells to the list...
Note that they will never have as many spells on their list as a Cleric.
Also, I hear DMM cheese only gets bad when you allow night-sticks to be used for that purpose. Otherwise it is two or three feats for basically a single permanent buff slot.
I'm not sure if this is tier 2 or tier 3. It's definitely not Cleric level powerful but compared to the favored soul you get all the basic healing spells, some alignment based defensive spells and 3 domain spells of each level compared to 6 spells of all but your highest 2 levels and 5 and 4 for those but limited to the cleric list (many of the best spells are domain spells).
You also get (assuming you cap Advanced Learning 1 level below maximum) an extra 2rd, 4th, 6th, and 2 8th level spells as well as 3 of any level and can choose from any divine list.
With advanced learning and the three domains you can get any combo you really need, and actually have multiple combos, so as it is right now the Village Priest is probably Tier 2; just so many different options from the combination of an extremely open Advanced Learning (more like Eclectic Learning than Advanced Learning) and 3 domains.
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Peanut Dracolich avatar by Emperor Ing.
Luck Blessed: My most recent homebrew (new as of mid May 2013).
If anybody is ever interested in playing one of my homebrewed base classes let me know, I'd love to see some of them in play and would try to run a game for it.
A Village Priest turns or rebukes undead the same way that a cleric does, except that instead of having a daily limit, he must wait a given time between attempts for his internal energy to recover. The delay is determined by his charisma score at time of turning:
cha
wait time
< 6
1 hour
6 - 9
5 minutes
10 - 11
1 minute
12 - 13
1d8+1 rounds
14 - 15
1d6+1 rounds
16 - 17
1d4+1 rounds
18 - 19
1d3+1 rounds
20 - 21
1d2+1 rounds
22 - 25
2 rounds
> 25
1 round
Effects that would give you additional attempts per day (such as the Extra Turning feat) instead increase your effective charisma score by that amount for purposes of reset time. The time is the same whether the attempt was used on actual undead or for some other purpose (e.g. divine feats). Under no circumstances can multiple turn attempts be made in the same round.
Numeric domain bonuses
Bonuses are increased by 50% rounded up.
Advanced Learning
At levels 6-18, advanced learning is capped at one level below the highest known. At level 19, you may learn any cleric spell. At level 20, you gain one (not three) from any divine list
Weapons and Armor
(This wasn't called out, I just realized I forgot it.)
Village Priests are proficient with their deity's weapon as an (su) ability and with one chosen simple weapon as an (ex) ability. They are not proficient with any armor or shields. However, since they do not suffer spell failure and rarely use physical skills or weapons, they often wear heavy armor anyways.
This is a really good concept. There are a lot of arcane T3 classes kicking around, both in canon and in homebrew, but you're exactly right, there's a hole in the wall where we ought to have good middle-of-the-road divine casters. Kudos for stepping in to fill that gap.
Some of your feedback has been that the class is too powerful. Honestly, I don't see where those guys are coming from. This class is a marginal T4 on its best day, and depending on domain choice could easily be T5. It needs more dakka to hit T3.
Let's look at your basic mechanics: poor base attack, d6 hit die, only one good save, proficient with no armor or shields, and two weapons. Two?!?
Your turn undead isn't usable to power the Divine metamagic, or most Devotion feats (which directly undermines the Devotion bonus feats you receive). You have less than half the spells known of a beguiler, and lack staple spells like dispel magic or defensive spells to shore up your low hit points and AC. The life-focused priest makes a terrible healer because it doesn't know most of the best healing spells (although spontaneous casting does allow it to make good use of what it has). The death-focused priest is terrible offensively, because the majority of its spells are touch-range and the class can't survive toe-to-toe combat. The alignment-based spells are really only useful against a narrow slice of opponents. The village priest depends heavily on clever domain and advanced learning choices in order to find anything relevant to do in combat, and will probably only be capable of a few tricks at best.
Seriously. It needs more dakka.
First of all, your skill list is too small. A moderately intelligent human village priest will quickly run out of class skills to advance. You should at least double the number of class skills.
You need weapon proficiencies. Even an adept is proficient with all simple weapons, and the village priest should be as well.
Looking at the other mechanics, it's clear you envision the village priest as a second-rank character, not one who seeks out a fight. In that context, poor attack bonus, poor saves, hit points, and no armor make sense. However, the priest lacks consistent access to buff spells that could be used to compensate for these weaknesses. You need to either expand the spell list with a variety of defensive and buffing spells, or grant better hit points, light and medium armor proficiency, medium attack progression, and another good save.
I like the augmented domain powers. That will help each village priest establish a distinctive style and theme. However, the spell list needs to be greatly expanded. Any T3 class should have some means of regularly contributing to combat in a meaningful way, some means of protecting itself in combat, and some area of expertise or collection of tricks that can accomplish significant things outside of combat. Right now it can either heal (badly) or attack (badly), but it can't protect itself, and it can't contribute outside of combat apart from the use of a few social skills that are already available to many other classes that do social interaction much better. If you're smart, you can pick up a few good spells off the domain lists like invisibility or shatter, but these alone aren't going to carry the class, and a good class shouldn't depend on the player to make smart choices in order to avoid dysfunction.
What is the village priest supposed to be good at?
A Village Priest turns or rebukes undead the same way that a cleric does, except that instead of having a daily limit, he must wait a given time between attempts for his internal energy to recover. The delay is determined by his charisma score at time of turning:
cha
wait time
< 6
1 hour
6 - 9
5 minutes
10 - 11
1 minute
12 - 13
1d8+1 rounds
14 - 15
1d6+1 rounds
16 - 17
1d4+1 rounds
18 - 19
1d3+1 rounds
20 - 21
1d2+1 rounds
22 - 25
2 rounds
> 25
1 round
Effects that would give you additional attempts per day (such as the Extra Turning feat) instead increase your effective charisma score by that amount for purposes of reset time. The time is the same whether the attempt was used on actual undead or for some other purpose (e.g. divine feats). Under no circumstances can multiple turn attempts be made in the same round.
Emphasis mine. The class can't expend more than one use of turn undead at a time. Divine Metamagic requires no less than two, and most Devotion feats require two or three expenditures of TU to recharge the devotion feat. Village priest won't be able to use these feats effectively. Even the divine feats that require expending only one use of TU may be less effective, because the character can't invoke TU every round without significant Charisma optimization (and it's presumably a Wis-based spellcaster).
I'd forgotten that some of the devotion feats require multiple turnings. And I think I've been misplaying DMM all this time (as n rather than n+1). How's this:
You may spend two turn attempts at once (to power a feat or special ability) but the recovery time is doubled. You may spend three but the recovery time is quadrupled. You may never spend more than three.
That allows all the devotions, and some reasonable DMM, but not quicken or persist.
The life-focused priest makes a terrible healer because it doesn't know most of the best healing spells (although spontaneous casting does allow it to make good use of what it has).
The change to the TU mechanic would be good. Like you said, that opens up some reasonable DMM, and it makes devotion feats viable too.
These would be my personal favorite healing/status repair/resurrection spells (that aren't already on your list):
Conduit of life (Spell Compendium Complete Champion)
Close wounds (Spell Compendium)
Darts of life (Complete Champion)
Estanna's stew (Book of Exalted Deeds)
Healing circle (Complete Champion)
Healing spirit (Player's Handbook 2)
Heroes' feast (Player's Handbook)
Insignia of healing (Races of Destiny)
Fortunate fate (Spell Compendium)
Light of Venya (Spell Compendium)
Lion's roar (Spell Compendium)
Mass aid (Spell Compendium)
Miracle (mass raise dead effect) (Player's Handbook)
Panacea (Spell Compendium)
Positive energy aura (Spell Compendium)
Renewal Pact (Spell Compendium)
Revenance (Spell Compendium)
Revivify (Spell Compendium)
Revive Outsider (Spell Compendium)
Stalwart Pact (Spell Compendium)
These spells open options for pre-battle preparation with healing spells that can be "cashed in" some considerable time after they were cast, heal-over-time spells and +temp hp spells that are useful in the first round or two in combat, and battle-rez magics that can turn the tide in difficult fights.
Many of these spells, because they heal damage in several "packets" rather than in one lump sum, benefit considerably from the Augment Healing feat, doubling or tripling in effectiveness.
Although they're not direct healing spells, spells like mass resist energy, mass spell resistance, and mass death ward are also useful to a healbot because they prevent or mitigate common attacks that will injure or kill party members.
Edit: I misattributed conduit of life. That's one's from Complete Champion.
I was preparing a long, detailed counter-post to this point and a few others, but I find myself agreeing with you. Currently, I'd call the class Tier 4. It's difficult to build a Village Priest that is much good at doing anything.
The class has lots of really nice things going for it. Lots of spells per day, seriously powerful domain granted powers, per-encounter or faster Turn Undead, but unless you build in very specific ways, or fervently seek out the best deities for your domain choices you'll find yourself very limited.
That's not to say that there aren't builds that can easily play with the Tier 3s and do interesting things that no other Tier 3 class can do. It's just that those builds appear to be few and far between.
Quote:
You need weapon proficiencies. Even an adept is proficient with all simple weapons, and the village priest should be as well.
I would agree with this. Also, having supernatural proficiency with your deity's weapon is, to be blunt, stupid. Suddenly taking a -4 penalty to attack rolls while in a no-magic area is ridiculous. Also, if the Cleric wants that proficiency they take the War Domain (and get any other feat they want while they're at it).
Quote:
Right now it can either heal (badly) or attack (badly), but it can't protect itself, and it can't contribute outside of combat apart from the use of a few social skills that are already available to many other classes that do social interaction much better.
Without being able to choose your own domains, I agree, this is somewhat of an issue. Of course, players can choose what deity to worship (within the confines of the campaign setting), so it's less of a drastic concern, but it's a good point nonetheless.
For example, a NG Village Priest of Pelor can be a totally kickass healer. Take Divine Ward and a couple other feats to help with healing and take advantage of the fact that Turn Undead can be used all day with just a couple rounds' delay. With Protection Domain's improved granted power bolstering the first save each member of your party makes each encounter to godly levels you're sure to keep them standing without much trouble.
The problem being that even if you manage to develop a trick like the above healing set up, unfortunately, it's just about all you're able to do.
RSS Feeds: 
Village Priest -- a tier 3 cleric
No, that's not what Tier 2 means. I've seen JaronK explain this like a dozen times now. Tier 2 means you can perform all the tricks of a Tier 1 character, but where a Tier 1 character has the flexibility to bounce around between those tricks at will, a Tier 2 character is limited to only one or two tricks, usually due to spells/powers known limitations. The Tier System is versatility based.
