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Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef XII. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".
Contestants: You will need to present your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:
Menu: For most challenges, the "special ingredient" will be drawn from Core plus Completes. There will, from time to time, be special challenges that showcase secret ingredients from other books--for example, the XPH.
32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.
Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.
Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 11:59pm CUT on Thursday, September 30th 11:59pm CUT on Friday, October 1st to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Ozymandias9. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying.
Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.
Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.
I am going to have to ask the contestants to PM me about any disagreement with the judges. Under no circumstances is a contestant to defend themselves inside the thread, since it breaks anonymity. For a brief refrence of what is and is not a valid dispute, confer this post.
Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!
Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.Spoiler
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NAME OF ENTRY
{table=head]
Level|
Class|
Base Attack<br>Bonus|
Fort Save|
Ref Save|
Will Save|
Skills|
Feats|
Class Features
1st|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
2nd|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
3rd|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
4th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
5th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
6th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
7th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
8th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
9th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
10th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
11th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
12th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
13th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
14th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
15th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
16th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
17th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
18th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
19th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
20th|New Class Level|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|
+x
|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]
Code
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[b]NAME OF ENTRY[/b]
{table=head][b]Level[/b]|[B]Class[/B]|[b]Base Attack<br>Bonus[/b]|[b]Fort Save[/b]|[b]Ref Save[/b]|[b]Will Save[/b]|[B]Skills[/B]|[B]Feats[/B]|[b]Class Features[/b]
1st|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
2nd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
3rd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
4th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
5th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
6th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
7th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
8th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
9th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
10th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
11th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
12th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
13th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
14th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
15th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
16th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
17th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
18th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
19th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities
20th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]
For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
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Spells per day/Spells Known
{table=head]
Level|
0lvl|
1st|
2nd|
3rd|
4th|
5th|
6th|
7th|
8th|
9th
1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]
Code
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[b]Spells per day/Spells Known[/b]
{table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]0lvl[/b]|[b]1st[/b]|[b]2nd[/b]|[b]3rd[/b]|[b]4th[/b]|[b]5th[/b]|[b]6th[/b]|[b]7th[/b]|[b]8th[/b]|[b]9th[/b]
1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]
For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.
Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners.
So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for about 5 judges and as many contestants as feel like playing!
In what is becoming a theme, this will be the contest's fourth special challenge. This week's special ingredient is:
The Expanded Psionics Handbook's War Mind!
As a note, this week's ingredient is also available as part of the SRD.
Allez optimiser!
Judges
gallagher
Private-Prinny
Dubious Pie
Keld Denar
OMG PONIES
True_Shinken
The Vorpal Tribble
Contestants
Cadian 9th
The Gilded Duke
Greyfell
BobVosh
WinWin
Amphetryon
IdleMuse
TerrickTerran
playswithfire
Rancor1
T.G. Oskar
Past Competitions
Iron Chef I: Entropomancer
Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent
Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage
Iron Chef IV: Stonelord
Iron Chef V: War Chanter
Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks
Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept
Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist
Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord
Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar
Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo
Post Edit History
10/8/10 9:50 PM CUT Updated Judges List
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10/2/10 5:12 AM CUT Updated Contestants post
10/2/10 3:25AM CUT: Updated Judges List
9/29/10 9:46pm Cooking Time Extended
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Declaring interest as a contestant!
War mind, huh? This'll be fun!
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Contestant time! War Mind! Yes! Hahaha.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
In like Flynn. War mind.... Mmmmmm *ponders*
This ought to be interesting.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Going for contestant this time.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
if it isnt too much to ask, i would like to participate as a judge. especially because i would like to see some amazing war mind builds!
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Hell yeah. I hope the judges are not lactose intolerant.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WinWin
Hell yeah. I hope the judges are not lactose intolerant.
You going to try to constipate them with cheese?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Competing in this one.
EDIT: War Mind in the SRD
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Hmm, I'm in as a contestant, but that may change to judge.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Whoa, short time this time round... Maybe I should put aside ALL of tomorrow to compete.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
I'd like to judge if possible. I love psionic builds.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
I'm in for judging. I'll update this post with criteria in a bit.
Edit: Here they are. Instead of a rigid system, I just use general guidelines.
Originality
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Pros: Does the build take advantage of an unusual race? An unusual class combination? Does the build do something that hasn't been done before? Is the build distinct from the other entries?
Cons: Does the build use an obvious entry? An obvious tactic? Does the build look like a known example? Is the build similar to other entries?
Power
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Pros: Does the build function in its chosen role? Does it have extra capabilities outside of its chosen role? How would it compare to other builds made for that role?
Cons: Does the build fail at its chosen role? Is it incapable of functioning outside of that role? How does it compare to other builds with that role?
Elegance
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Pros: Does the build progress smoothly? Do you get something new every level? Does the build stop taking class levels at appropriate points? Can the build fit in with a variety of parties?
Cons: Does the build progress sporadically? Are there excessive dead levels? Does the build rely on alternate rules? Do you have uncited sources? Flaws are a one point deduction each. Is the build inhibited by a party?
Use of Secret Ingredient
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Pros: Does the build identify itself as a War Mind? Are all of the class features taken advantage of? Is the inclusion of War Mind crucial to the build's tactics? Does the build enter War Mind early in the progression?
Cons: Does the build identify itself as an X with War Mind levels? Are some class features simply abandoned? Is the inclusion of War Mind levels detrimental to the build's tactics? Does the build put off War Mind levels until late in the progression?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
I'll try to compete, but not sure I'll have the time to throw something together.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
yeah this is a rather short turn around... might have to be a little light on the back story this time :)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Warmind. Nice. I'm in as a contestant this time.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Ah, the War Mind. One of those classic PrCs with great (or at least cool) abilities and no real natural entry or followup class. I don't have the time to compete or to judge, but I'll be watching this with some interest. I hope that people will be really aiming for the Originality angle this time... it would be interesting to see several different takes on this. Offhand, I can think of two semi-obvious ways to go (which is distinct from having a natural entry point), but we'll see how people go beyond those.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Why such a short build time?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
I'm guessing with the length of time the last round took, Ozy wanted to abbreviate this one to keep a semi-regular pace. Also, I'm coming up zeroes right now in terms of character concepts. I may switch to judging, unless I can drum up a concept tomorrow.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Just asking, but I presume 1st level "dip" is not too bad, so long as the rest of your build is straight classes? (I.e. only 4.)
Failing that, are soverign archetypes allowed for DW kobolds?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
I like judging! Copy/Pasta
One thing...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE include your PP per level, at every level where your PP total changes. I don't want to have to go back and calculate your PP all the time to see how much staying power you have at various levels. Failure to do so WILL result in point deductions. Period.
My Criteria
Originality: Does the submission use unexpected sources or material? Does it avoid over-used qualification methods? Does it use the secret ingredient in an unusual or clever way? This section is an amalgam of the build itself and how the build is presented.
Power: What tier is this build? How does it compete against similar roles in terms of versatility, skills, damage, control, resiliance, etc. Does the inclusion of <Secret Ingredient> actually make this build more powerful? Is the build well-optimized? Are there any noticable saggy spots where the build underperforms? Is the build versatile (able to respond to a variety of challenges, both combat and non-combat), on top of any specialized tricks it may contain. Does the build use large amounts of LA and/or RHD that could lead to a slow start? Be as detailed as possible. If there is something your build does that is powerful, yet not completely obvious, you should probably expand upon it. If an important yet subtle feature in your build is missed by the judges, its mostly your own fault.
Elegance: Does your build progress well? Does it avoid requiring flaws and variant rules (not including published Alt Class Features like Racial Subs)? Do you avoid overly dipping classes like cleric 1 that are obviously for bonus feats/class abilities? Does the build play well in a party, or does the presence of a party inhibit its functionality. Does your build subscribe to various power break points if it doesn't complete a PrC? Do you avoid using Taint and Dark Chaos shuffling? Other judges might, but I have no problem with a player drawing from a multitude of sources. As far as I'm concerned, if material in a source book improves your submission, use it. This section is the one most affected by your back story and build presentation, but the submission itself is still very important here. PLEASE CITE ALL SOURCES USED!
Use of Secret Ingredient: How important is the secret ingredient in this build? Would you refer to the build as being A <Secret Ingredient>, or are you just splashing the PrC in there? Does the flavor of the build fit that of the PrC? Do you use the PrC in a clever, synergistic or powerful way? Do the special abilities of the secret ingredient augement or are augemented by other abilities in the build? If you didn't use all levels of the secret ingredient (and you don't always have to), do you have good reasoning why not, and did you exit at an acceptable power break point? This section is an amalgam of the build itself and how the SI interacts with the rest of the build.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heliomance
Why such a short build time?
It's 5 days from when I posted it. When I did 7 I was told it was a long period. I'm quite willing to extend it if a significant number of participants think Friday 10/1/10 would be better.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
That was partly my fault. I got slammed at work and it really impacted my free time to judge. I don't anticipate having that problem again (unless there is another major break somewhere in the mill, at which point the plant would probably close for good...).
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
I think I'll take the plunge and participate for the first time. It'll be interesting to see how many people had the same idea.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
I would also like to participate.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Huh, I didn't even know the last one ever got finished. Got busy with the PrC competition in the homebrew forums.
*reads*
Still amazes me sometimes how often with this competition my entries are loved or considered a favorite and yet still score badly... sometimes in every category :smallconfused:
It depends on the judge's specifics when I see them whether I enter this one or not. I didn't read the fine print in the last competition and have some serious issues with a few of them. Those don't seem to be judges this round however, so hopefully won't be a problem.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Note, I edited in a new line in my judging criteria, notated by bolded text.
"Does the build play well in a party, or does the presence of a party inhibit its functionality."
This is something I realize I judged on in a couple of the last few competitions. Some builds just don't play well with others. Builds that rely overly much on excessive amounts of stealth and/or deception tend not to work well in a party comprised of a drunken, fullplate wearing dwarf and a pyromaniac wizard, etc. Not saying that these builds wouldn't work ok in a group, but that they don't reach their fullest potential in a group or tend to pull the spotlight away from the group. Plain and simple, would the build make a better NPC (especially NPC "boss" type) than a PC.
If any of you have any questions about this, or would like more clarification, just ask.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Oy, definitely judging. My only original ideas each had wrinkles I couldn't iron out. Criteria coming shortly.
EDIT: And here they are...
Originality
- 1: The build is either a duplicate or a collage of pieces gleaned from well-known charop builds.
- 2: The build closely mirrors another submission in election (race/class/etc) and/or execution (entry/combos/tricks). Please note that, in such situations, both submissions will receive the reduced score.
- 3: The build is fairly straightforward, though some small elements may have been unexpected.
- 4: The build is unexpected in either election (race/class/etc) or execution (entry/combos/tricks), but not both.
- 5: The build was entirely unexpected and unique, both in election and execution.
NOTE: I also evaluate the character's backstory as a component of my originality score. Particularly unique and decent stories may receive a small bump (up to +1), though drab or cliche stories will not be penalized. I understand that the build itself is the focus of the competition, but I feel that a finely crafted or well-engineered concept can really give a build identity.
Power
- 1: The build, as presented, cannot function in its chosen role. Examples include a wizard with 9 INT or an illegal build.
- 2: The build functions more weakly in a party than a similar build without the secret ingredient, relying entirely on items or adequate preparation rounds.
- 3: The build functions as well in a party as a similar build without the secret ingredient. Though the build can still function without items or adequate preparation rounds, it does so at a reduced capacity.
- 4: The build functions as a stronger party member than a similar build without the secret ingredient. Though the build can still function without items, it may operate at a reduced capacity without adequate preparation rounds.
- 5: The build excels at its chosen role/roles within a party, eclipsing a similar build without the secret ingredient, even in the absence of items or adequate preparation rounds.
NOTE: Please keep in mind that I evaluate submissions against similar builds, rather than against each other. I will evaluate a caster submission against the strength of other casters, a skillmonkey build against the strength of other skillmonkeys, and so on.
Elegance
- 1: The build presented is illegal by any reading of the rules, functions only upon an intentional misreading of the rules, or contains 3 or more "dips" (defined as less than two levels in any class).
- 2: The build presented is overly complex, or relies on conflicting class features (either mechanically or in terms of flavor). No more than two dips.
- 3: The build presented is simple and straightforward enough that most DMs would allow it at their table. No more than 1 dip.
- 4: The build presented, while streamlined, efficient, and free of dips, relies on a variant such as LA buyoff or variant classes/races presented in Unearthed Arcana. Please keep in mind that such elements can be presented as possible adaptations with no reduction to Elegance. However, if the build cannot function without the variant used, the deduction will be taken.
- 5: The build presented is so streamlined that it all seems to blend together as one larger class.
NOTE: As per contest rules, flaws will cause a deduction of one point each, to a minimum score of zero. Also, while I will not penalize cheese in terms of power, it may cause a reduction in elegance.
Use of the Secret Ingredient (UoSI)
- 1: The build does not qualify for the Secret Ingredient, renders the class features useless in some way, or hampers class features gained elsewhere by taking the Secret Ingredient.
- 2: The build has utilized, but not showcased any of the class features acquired.
- 3: The build has showcased at least one class feature acquired, and taken at least half of the levels of the Secret Ingredient.
- 4: The build has taken every level of the Secret Ingredient, or provided a persuasive explanation as to why not doing so was beneficial. Most class features acquired are showcased, but not all.
- 5: The build has taken every level of the Secret Ingredient, or provided a persuasive explanation as to why not doing so was crucial. Every class feature acquired is showcased.
NOTE: As mentioned, by my criteria a character can fail to use every level of the Secret Ingredient and still receive a perfect score in this category. It's not just about how much you use...it's about why you use it, and how you use it.
Please note that submitting an illegal build will cause you to receive scores of 1 in Power, Elegance, AND Use of the Secret Ingredient. While I do not like to penalize multiple times for the same thing, there is no excuse for submitting an illegal build to this contest. Please double check your entry requirements and feat prerequisites.
If there are any questions or comments on my criteria, let me know via PM or through the chairman.
EDIT TO THE EDIT: Criteria adjusted to reflect the minimum score of 1.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keld Denar
Note, I edited in a new line in my judging criteria, notated by bolded text.
"Does the build play well in a party, or does the presence of a party inhibit its functionality."
This is something I realize I judged on in a couple of the last few competitions. Some builds just don't play well with others. Builds that rely overly much on excessive amounts of stealth and/or deception tend not to work well in a party comprised of a drunken, fullplate wearing dwarf and a pyromaniac wizard, etc. Not saying that these builds wouldn't work ok in a group, but that they don't reach their fullest potential in a group or tend to pull the spotlight away from the group. Plain and simple, would the build make a better NPC (especially NPC "boss" type) than a PC.
If any of you have any questions about this, or would like more clarification, just ask.
Just so I'm clear on this one, are the "drunken, fullplate wearing dwarf and a pyromaniac wizard" going to be the de facto expectation for the other members of the presumptive party, or do you want us to spell out the other members of the adventuring party, or how do you envision this influencing scoring? I only ask because I know that some builds work poorly with others; a battlefield-control wizard who specializes in divide-and-conquer techniques often works at cross-purposes to a cleave-monkey, while the pyromaniac is a better fit (but is less optimal otherwise), for example.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMG PONIES
Please note that submitting an illegal build will cause you to receive scores of 0 in Power, Elegance, AND Use of the Secret Ingredient. While I do not like to penalize multiple times for the same thing, there is no excuse for submitting an illegal build to this contest. Please double check your entry requirements and feat prerequisites.
Though I have no particular issue with the intent, the minimum score is always 1.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Ok, seeking official ruling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Mind
Sweeping Strike (Ex): At 5th level, a war mind gains the ability to make great, sweeping swings with a melee weapon. On each melee attack a war mind makes, he can choose squares he threatens that are adjacent to each other, and his attacks apply to creatures in those two squares equally.
It says squares he threatens that are adjacent, and then mentions two squares. What if through ability or race he threatens more, or if tiny or smaller, less?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Vorpal Tribble
It says squares he threatens that are adjacent, and then mentions two squares. What if through ability or race he threatens more, or if tiny or smaller, less?
I spent a few minutes eyeballing that when I first read the class. I think its two squares that are adjacent to one another within your reach.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ozymandias9
Though I have no particular issue with the intent, the minimum score is always 1.
Mutiple judges have given 0s in past competitions--is the minimum score of 1 a recent ruling?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BobVosh
I spent a few minutes eyeballing that when I first read the class. I think its two squares that are adjacent to one another within your reach.
Personally, I agree with BobVosh.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
I'm in as a contestant.
What is the verdict on using all of the psionic content on the wizards site? The Mind's Eye and Expanded Classes articles have a lot of good stuff.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Vorpal Tribble
It says squares he threatens that are adjacent, and then mentions two squares. What if through ability or race he threatens more, or if tiny or smaller, less?
"Adjacent" refers to the squares being adjacent to one another, not the squares being adjacent to the warmind.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Amphetryon, I'll cite two examples I marked down for this. The most recent was Wruk. Wruk seemed to be rather dependant on his contacts and influence within a specific city. Being able to manipulate the pieces of his "game" and whatnot. This stuck me as being something more akin to a mastermind BBEG, rather than a PC. His prefered method of ambush, along with his by-the-book contingent disappear-in-a-puff-of-smoke getaways don't really play well in a party, but are AWESOME for a recurring BBEG. It just makes for quite a bit of story disconnect when one player survives a TPK and has to start a new party with new random strangers? Especially one as well connected as Wruk. The other PCs aren't exactly disposable mooks. Similarly, Wruk's ability to know EVERYTHING thats going on within 100 miles would be rediculously hard for a DM to deal with, but as an NPC, gives you a non-fiat reason why the BBEG is always a half step ahead of the PCs. The whole concept just SCREAMS NPC to me, rather than PC.
Another example, as I noted while judging, was Sway. Sway's prefered combat style generally involved beguiling foes with her dancing, then ambushing them while their pants are down (metaphorically speaking...mostly). In most dungeoncrawling/planarcrawling/etc style adventures, you won't even get the opportunity to set up such an ambush, and even if you do, the other players will be sitting around bored while you RP with the DM planning, plotting, and setting up situations to utilize this. On the other side, she makes an excellent plot NPC. She'd be an ideal assassin sent to kill a prince/king/noble/merchant/whatever under the protection of the PCs, and have a good chance to beguile some of the PCs before starting an ambush encounter for the PCs to fight as either a solo baddy or with a couple of on-demand disposable mooks. If the city council of New Phlan wants the party to to eliminate the source of the undead at Shoakal Keep, having Sway in the party kinda denies her the ability to use most of her dirty tricks which is less fun for that player. If every encounter involves deep intrigue and setting up delicate and strategic assassinations so Sway can get her groove on, the battle rager dwarf and the sun worshipping cleric are going to feel likewise left out. Most of the time, encounters are going to be of the former type, rather than the latter, unless its specifically set up as a high-intrigue game, or a solo game with just Sway.
Don't get me wrong, both were VERY powerful and very flavorful characters, they just didn't seem to really fit well into a "typical" party environment. Now, if the whole party was coordinated to take advantage of those tactics, they would be very effective. Short of making everyone else's character for them, however, that is not a luxury you can always afford. Most of the other builds, like Jack, Jakob, Sizok, Mundo, etc, from the last competition, all fit well within "normal" party dynamics (ie; violent hobos who kill things and take their stuff). Character's who focus too much on intrigue, or who don't travel well, tend to steal the spotlight and leave others bored while doing their "thing". Team combat, on the other hand, is something everyone can participate in.
I hope this makes sense. Again, this is not to disparage the amazing creativity that went into the design of these characters. They just brushed me as the type of characters that would make better NPCs than PCs. Just something to keep in mind for future competitions.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMG PONIES
Mutiple judges have given 0s in past competitions--is the minimum score of 1 a recent ruling?
To my knowledge, we just never formally dealt with it. So I guess that that makes it a brand new ruling.
For reference, when Vorpal Tribble refused to score a... lackluster entry in IC5, the zeroes were noteworthy enough that Heliomance made an aside in the final scoring. I'm just taking the opportunity to formalize the situation in a way that is consistent with the standing 1-5 scoring range.
Judges should feel free to refuse to score entries that they believe are insufficient for competition: such entries will be considered as having minimum points for that judge.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Uhm silly question (which the errata for the power from the wotc webpage soooo does **not** clear up)
The 'expansion' power says 1 min/level in it's power info block. But the augment option #3 says "this duration becomes 10 min/level, instead of 1 round/level"
The original from the book was even worse "duration is 1 min/level rather then 1 round/level".
clarification, please?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
The SRD incorporates the errata. Expansion from the SRD states:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRD
Expansion
Psychometabolism
Level: Psychic warrior 1
Display: Olfactory
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Power Points: 1
So yea, the correct answer is rounds/level unless augemented.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Vorpal Tribble
Ok, seeking official ruling. [...]It says squares he threatens that are adjacent, and then mentions two squares. What if through ability or race he threatens more, or if tiny or smaller, less?
It affects only 2 squares, they must be adjacent to each other, and s/he must threaten both of them. The decision on which squares to count is made with each attack.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
I am hitting a few walls char-op wise. Need moar feats. Heroism spam just wont cut it...Should work out the kinks before the deadline though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keld Denar
Another example, as I noted while judging, was Sway. Sway's prefered combat style generally involved beguiling foes with her dancing, then ambushing them while their pants are down (metaphorically speaking...mostly). In most dungeoncrawling/planarcrawling/etc style adventures, you won't even get the opportunity to set up such an ambush, and even if you do, the other players will be sitting around bored while you RP with the DM planning, plotting, and setting up situations to utilize this. On the other side, she makes an excellent plot NPC. She'd be an ideal assassin sent to kill a prince/king/noble/merchant/whatever under the protection of the PCs, and have a good chance to beguile some of the PCs before starting an ambush encounter for the PCs to fight as either a solo baddy or with a couple of on-demand disposable mooks. If the city council of New Phlan wants the party to to eliminate the source of the undead at Shoakal Keep, having Sway in the party kinda denies her the ability to use most of her dirty tricks which is less fun for that player. If every encounter involves deep intrigue and setting up delicate and strategic assassinations so Sway can get her groove on, the battle rager dwarf and the sun worshipping cleric are going to feel likewise left out. Most of the time, encounters are going to be of the former type, rather than the latter, unless its specifically set up as a high-intrigue game, or a solo game with just Sway.
Detect hostile intent at will. Energy drain. Stealth. Poison. Sway could be a team player. Not tier one, but most of her options benefit team play. Outside of combat, she could keep up with party intrigue and information gathering. In combat, the stream of status effects would keep the casters at the top of their game, especially those relying on SoD's and SoS.
I personally thought the character was weak. Certainly not a burden to a party, but in a solo game she would get overwhelmed pretty quickly. That is part of the reason the description portrayed her as a backround or support character.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Whew!
Submitted my build.
That was harder then I thought it would be.
Had like ten different ideas I had to narrow down.
I'm interested to see what everyone else is going with.
War Mind is a weird little class... all that knowledge but no use for knowledge skills. Only full base attack class that I could find with both Knowledge History and Knowledge Psionics was the Duskblade, which otherwise had almost nothing else in common.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Ahem. A reminder:
Quote:
Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Is submitting multiple builds frowned upon? I have a few nearly completed builds that are vastly different. I'm not sure I can narrow it down to just one.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rancor1
Is submitting multiple builds frowned upon? I have a few nearly completed builds that are vastly different. I'm not sure I can narrow it down to just one.
No rule against it; OMG did it last time.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Had a cool idea which apparently isn't very original despite my having come up with it on my own so likely going to wait til next competition.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Trib, you'd better submit it!
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
I think I'll give this a try.
Quick question.
What happen if warmind was my only manifesting class and I picked up and
then I picked up a PrC with "+1 ML" what would happen?
A) nothing. Warmind only has PP and power progression up to level 10.
B) same as A but the warmind's ML increases.
C) ML, PP and powers gained at same pace.
The fact that warmind isn't a "+1 ML" class makes it a bit tricky as an ingrediant.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
The bonus PP table is only dependant on ML and casting stat. You can progress your Warmind ML past 10 using any number of tricks (including using a +1 ML PrC). You won't get any more Powers Known or similar benefits, but you'll still increase your ML (which will let you augment powers higher) and you will get more PP based on the function of your casting stat and your ML.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keld Denar
So yea, the correct answer is rounds/level unless augemented.
Never thought to check the online SRD... I have most the stuff in hard copy. Thanks Keld.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
First build submitted; we'll see if I have time and sufficient motivation/op-fu to crank out my second idea.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Ooh, yeah, do it!
I'm secretly hoping that at least one of my possible build ideas pops up, but I must warn you all--I would have scored myself low. :smalltongue:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ozymandias9
It's 5 days from when I posted it. When I did 7 I was told it was a long period. I'm quite willing to extend it if a significant number of participants think Friday 10/1/10 would be better.
Given the couple of posts in the thread and a couple of PMs, I've decided to go with this.
Cutoff will be Friday 1 October 2001, 11:59pm CUT. I'll, most likely, still be lecturing at 11:59pm CUT, so you might squeeze one in an hour or two late-- but no promises.
The original post will be updated appropriately.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMG PONIES
Ooh, yeah, do it!
I'm secretly hoping that at least one of my possible build ideas pops up, but I must warn you all--I would have scored myself low. :smalltongue:
If you don't see it you'll have to tell us what it was. :smallbiggrin:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Player3
If you don't see it you'll have to tell us what it was. :smallbiggrin:
What they were...I was kicking around 3. I'll be sure to post them along with my judging.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ozymandias9
Given the couple of posts in the thread and a couple of PMs, I've decided to go with this.
Cutoff will be Friday 1 October 2001, 11:59pm CUT. I'll, most likely, still be lecturing at 11:59pm CUT, so you might squeeze one in an hour or two late-- but no promises.
The original post will be updated appropriately.
I'm not sure it'll help my build over all... but I greatly appreciate the extension, nonetheless. Danke, Mein Hier.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ozymandias9
I'll, most likely, still be lecturing at 11:59pm CUT...
A lecturer, you say? If you don't mind me asking, on what do you lecture, and in what capacity?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII
I promise to ask the collective braintrust here if they have clever ideas for implementing my 2nd concept, if I can't complete and submit it.