GITP Monster Competition Chat Thread II

[Gorgondantess]

[rubs forehead] I NEVER kiss butt while reviewing anything. I cannot tell you that you've achieved what you seem to be claiming to have intended because your writing simply hasn't. Your description is unimpressive and repeating that i'm scared does not make it so.

Well, I never asked you to. I'm just explaining my intentions with it. I'll try to work on that, then.

More to the point, your descriptive text doesn't actually fit the crunch of the creature all that well.

Do elaborate.

[SlaadLord]

Ok, finally have a day off, and it is dedicated to relaxation and having fun. Who has a critter that's not been flayed within an inch of it's life by the Red Pen of Doom?

Mine needs flaying.

[Gorgondantess]

Mine as well.

[Crafty Cultist]

I think mine is well rounded but I'm open to criticism

[BisectedBrioche]

As do I.

Just because this is my nth entry doesn't mean I don't make mistakes.

[dentrag2]

The dread Golem kind of reminds me of the Gloom Golems from the MM3. Just saying.

[Debihuman]

Just because this is my nth entry doesn't mean I don't make mistakes.

Hey Bisected, your full attack is only partially finished. How many slams does it get as a full attack? BTW, I really like the name change.

Debby

[Debihuman]

@Debby: Changes made, expanded the lore section to include more high level stuff and made that actually useful on the hunt. I want to encourage the use of Knowledges and research in hunting the thing.

Much, much better. I like this a lot. I like the Hedge a lot. I'm a big fan of the Plane of Faeries. Faeries by Bastion Press is one of my favorite 3rd party books.

Debby

[Debihuman]

My only complaint with the Terror by Gogondantess is that it really has too few hit dice. You've given it epic special abilities and stats without giving it the appropriate Hit Dice.

You do realize that the PCs are practically guaraneed to fail the DC 31 saves for the Aura of Terror at level 17? Are these Fort, Ref or Will saves? You didn't mention it. It has a radius of 500 MILES? Are you kidding me? No animal could live in that vicinity.

Darkvision 120 feet is epic. Charisma 34 is epic. Regeneration 15 is epic. SR 29 is epic. DR 15 may not be quite epic, but it is ridiculous to give it to a 14 HD monster. If I read the entry correctly, it has 16 immunities (Ability Damage, Ability Drain, Acid, Cold, Critical Hits, Disease, Fatigue/Exhaustion Effects, Mind-Effecting, Negative Levels, Nonlethal Damage, Paralysis, Poison, Sleep, and Stunning). Whew! A good rule of thumb for design is no more than one special ability or special attack per creature's HD.

Your creature just isn't properly balanced for CR 17. These abilities might make sense for a 28 HD creature, but they don't for a 14 HD creature.

Debby

[Gorgondantess]

My only complaint with the Terror by Gogondantess is that it really has too few hit dice. You've given it epic special abilities and stats without giving it the appropriate Hit Dice.

Well, the point was, I wanted it to not have a bunch of saves/skill points/BAB/HP, but just a really, really powerful special ability. I guess I might've overdone it, though.

You do realize that the PCs are practically guaraneed to fail the DC 31 saves for the Aura of Terror at level 17? Are these Fort, Ref or Will saves? You didn't mention it. It has a radius of 500 MILES? Are you kidding me? No animal could live in that vicinity.

In 500 miles, you're only shaken. That's it. So, anything could live in that vicinity... it would just be scared. It only becomes lethal in 300 feet; a long distance, yes, but not too obscene.
It forces multiple saves, which are mentioned individually- mostly will, but one fort save.
For the save DCs, look at the plot hook; it's only meant to be faced with some good preparation.

Darkvision 120 feet is epic. Charisma 34 is epic. Regeneration 15 is epic. SR 29 is epic. DR 15 may not be quite epic, but it is ridiculous to give it to a 14 HD monster. If I read the entry correctly, it has 16 immunities (Ability Damage, Ability Drain, Acid, Cold, Critical Hits, Disease, Fatigue/Exhaustion Effects, Mind-Effecting, Negative Levels, Nonlethal Damage, Paralysis, Poison, Sleep, and Stunning). Whew! A good rule of thumb for design is no more than one special ability or special attack per creature's HD.

Your creature just isn't properly balanced for CR 17. These abilities might make sense for a 28 HD creature, but they don't for a 14 HD creature.

Debby

Ohhhkay... I really don't want to give it 28 HD. I understand it's a bit unorthodox, but... well, I kindof like that. However, in retrospect, I agree- it could use a boost. What would you consider a bare minimum in HD?

EDIT: Thanks for the critique, by the way.

[Debihuman]

I think mine is well rounded but I'm open to criticism

You often change the name of your creature: panic shade, whisper and wraith. I think you should edit your post to correct these and to add some better formatting. It's a bit difficult to read having all the special abilities crammed together without spaces between paragraph.

It has too few HD for the number of special abilities, special attacks and Challenge Rating. As I mentioned earlier, a good rule of thumb is that the total number of special attacks and special abilities should be no more than the number of Hit Dice a creature has. Your creature has 4 special attacks and 3 traits that aren't due to its type and subtype. Your creature should have at least 7 HD to be better balanced.

Dark whisper has a DC 15 Will save but you didn't mention which skill the DC is based on. DCs are usually 10 + 1/2 Creature's HD + ability modifier. It looks like it should be charisma-based. Also, Frantic Rage and Meld have DC 17 Will save. If these saves are dexterity-based, then the Will saves should be 18 not 17 [they get a +2 bonus for the ability focus feat].

Debby

[Debihuman]

Well, the point was, I wanted it to not have a bunch of saves/skill points/BAB/HP, but just a really, really powerful special ability. I guess I might've overdone it, though.

Yeah, it's a bit overdone, however, you can tone it back relatively easily.

In 500 miles, you're only shaken. That's it. So, anything could live in that vicinity... it would just be scared. It only becomes lethal in 300 feet; a long distance, yes, but not too obscene.

No because of this statement: "Any creature who fails the first save by ten or more, or fails the second save, must make a fort save or die instantly."

99% of all Animals will fail their first DC 31 save by 10 or more and thus be instantly slain.

It forces multiple saves, which are mentioned individually- mostly will, but one fort save.

Except the DC is 31 and in order to make a Will save at level, a typical PC needs to roll a 19 or better. And if you fail by 10 or more, you are instantly slain. Yuck.

For the save DCs, look at the plot hook; it's only meant to be faced with some good preparation.

Well, that was obvious even without reading the plot hook.

Ohhhkay... I really don't want to give it 28 HD. I understand it's a bit unorthodox, but... well, I kindof like that. However, in retrospect, I agree- it could use a boost. What would you consider a bare minimum in HD?

EDIT: Thanks for the critique, by the way.

Honestly, it would be an awesome 28 HD monster. And getting a fear immunity from it makes it an epic quest. However, I understand your reluctance to do that.

Also, monsters do not get additional attacks for high BAB unless they are wielding a weapon. Touch is a natural attack. Environment seems to be Far Realm [you should list its native plane in environment since it is extraplanar].


Here's how you scale it back:

Spoiler

Show

The Terror
Medium Aberration (Incorporeal, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 14d8+42 (105)
Initiative: +11
Speed: Fly 60 ft. (8 squares) Perfect
Armor Class: 19 (+2 deflection bonus, +7 dexterity), touch 17, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +10/—
Attack: Incorporeal Touch +17 melee (2d6 wisdom drain)
Full Attack: Incorporeal Touch +17 melee (2d6 wisdom drain)
Space/Reach: 5 ft,/5 ft.
Special Attacks: Aura of Terror, Wisdom Drain, Spell-like Abilities
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft.; Extradimensional Being, Horrific Being; Immunity to cold, critical hits and non-magical attacks; Incorporeal traits
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +11, Will +9
Abilities: Str —, Dex 25, Con 16, Int 21, Wis —, Cha 14
Skills: Escape Artist +24, Intimidate +19, Knowledge (Arcana) +21, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +21, Knowledge (The Planes) +21, Listen +17, Spot +17,
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Ability Focus (Aura of Terror), Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (Touch), Combat Reflexes
Environment: Far Realm
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 14
Treasure: Special [See below]
Alignment: True Neutral
Advancement: None
Level Adjustment: —

Suddenly, the air around you becomes charged. The panic and discomfort you have felt until now is amplified exponentially, and the air is filled with a soft, static, white noise that seems to drown out all sound. Your vision comes in flashes. You become disoriented, as your chest clenches and you begin to asphyxiate in panic. You can sense a presence before you... you cannot see it, you cannot hear it, and you have no knowledge of what it might be, but you know it is there, and you know that it is the most terrifying thing you've ever experienced.

The Terror is a being not of this plane, nor of this reality- it exists on a different dimension than any corporeal, or indeed noncorporeal being with a completely different, non-euclidean geometry. It is quite literally the embodiment of what sentient beings define as terror.

Aura of Terror (Ex): The Terror is truly the embodiment of fear, and is able to drive men (and other beings) to such a state of Terror that they could go insane.

The Terror exudes an aura that comes in 3 distinct ranges: peripheral, near and core. The effects of each do not necessarily stack. The save DCs are all Charisma-based (DC 21) for the Aura of Terror.

The Peripheral—1-mile radius. All creatures within range must make a Will save or become Shaken for 24 hours. If the effect wears off while the victim is still within range, he or she must make another save or become Shaken again. Creatures that make their saves for 7 days in a row become immune to this effect.

Near— 500-foot radius. All creatures in range are Shaken; no save is offered. In addition, all creatures must make a Will save every 24 hours or take 1 point of Wisdom drain. These points of drain stack. Creatures that make their saves for 7 days in a row become immune to this effect.

Core—100-foot radius: All creatures within range are Frightened; no save is offered. In addition, all creatures must make a Will save. If failed, they become Panicked. Panicked creatures must make an additional Will save or become affected as if by an insanity spell. This can only be cured by a limited wish, wish or miracle.

etc.

Debby

[Gorgondantess]

No because of this statement: "Any creature who fails the first save by ten or more, or fails the second save, must make a fort save or die instantly."

99% of all Animals will fail their first DC 31 save by 10 or more and thus be instantly slain.

*facepalm*
I meant the first save in the core range, not the first save to avoid becoming shaken. Bad wording on my part.

Except the DC is 31 and in order to make a Will save at level, a typical PC needs to roll a 19 or better. And if you fail by 10 or more, you are instantly slain. Yuck.
Well, that was obvious even without reading the plot hook.

Well... generally best to state the obvious than let it go unknown.
Okay, okay, CR needs to go up.

Honestly, it would be an awesome 28 HD monster. And getting a fear immunity from it makes it an epic quest. However, I understand your reluctance to do that.

Also, monsters do not get additional attacks for high BAB unless they are wielding a weapon. Touch is a natural attack. Environment seems to be Far Realm [you should list its native plane in environment since it is extraplanar].

Not technically far realms; just... between dimensions. Nothing so tangible as the far realms.
I'm aware of that caveat.



Here's how you scale it back:

Spoiler

Show

The Terror
Medium Aberration (Incorporeal, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 14d8+42 (105)
Initiative: +11
Speed: Fly 60 ft. (8 squares) Perfect
Armor Class: 19 (+2 deflection bonus, +7 dexterity), touch 17, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +10/—
Attack: Incorporeal Touch +17 melee (2d6 wisdom drain)
Full Attack: Incorporeal Touch +17 melee (2d6 wisdom drain)
Space/Reach: 5 ft,/5 ft.
Special Attacks: Aura of Terror, Wisdom Drain, Spell-like Abilities
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft.; Extradimensional Being, Horrific Being; Immunity to cold, critical hits and non-magical attacks; Incorporeal traits
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +11, Will +9
Abilities: Str —, Dex 25, Con 16, Int 21, Wis —, Cha 14
Skills: Escape Artist +24, Intimidate +19, Knowledge (Arcana) +21, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +21, Knowledge (The Planes) +21, Listen +17, Spot +17,
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Ability Focus (Aura of Terror), Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (Touch), Combat Reflexes
Environment: Far Realm
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 14
Treasure: Special [See below]
Alignment: True Neutral
Advancement: None
Level Adjustment: —

Suddenly, the air around you becomes charged. The panic and discomfort you have felt until now is amplified exponentially, and the air is filled with a soft, static, white noise that seems to drown out all sound. Your vision comes in flashes. You become disoriented, as your chest clenches and you begin to asphyxiate in panic. You can sense a presence before you... you cannot see it, you cannot hear it, and you have no knowledge of what it might be, but you know it is there, and you know that it is the most terrifying thing you've ever experienced.

The Terror is a being not of this plane, nor of this reality- it exists on a different dimension than any corporeal, or indeed noncorporeal being with a completely different, non-euclidean geometry. It is quite literally the embodiment of what sentient beings define as terror.

Aura of Terror (Ex): The Terror is truly the embodiment of fear, and is able to drive men (and other beings) to such a state of Terror that they could go insane, or even die of fear.

The Terror exudes an aura that comes in 3 distinct ranges: peripheral, near and core. The effects of each do not necessarily stack. The save DCs are all Charisma-based (DC 19) for the Aura of Terror.

The Peripheral—1-mile radius. All creatures within range must make a Will save or become Shaken for 24 hours. If the effect wears off while the victim is still within range, he or she must make another save or become Shaken again. Creatures that make their saves for 7 days in a row become immune to this effect.

Near— 500-foot radius. All creatures in range are Shaken; no save is offered. In addition, all creatures must make a Will save every 24 hours or take 1 point of Wisdom drain. These points of drain stack. Creatures that make their saves for 7 days in a row become immune to this effect.

Core—100-foot radius: All creatures within range are Frightened; no save is offered. In addition, all creatures must make a Will save. If failed, they become Panicked. Panicked creatures must make an additional Will save or become affected as if by an insanity spell. This can only be cured by a limited wish, wish or miracle.

etc.

Debby[/QUOTE]

Mmm... honestly, I'd rather tone it up than tone it back. Thus why I asked the bare minimum HD for what it has. Say, if it's CR 20, I don't think the saves should be too difficult...
Also, I have to wonder how anything could defeat it if it's frightened no matter what. Running in fear is not conductive to actually killing anything.

[Debihuman]

Scaling up works too, but I recommended doubling the hit dice and you didn't much like that idea. Actually if it had 28 hit dice, it would be on par with a Very Old Brass Dragon which has 28 hit dice and a CR of 19.

Debby

[Gorgondantess]

Scaling up works too, but I recommended doubling the hit dice and you didn't much like that idea. Actually if it had 28 hit dice, it would be on par with a Very Old Brass Dragon which has 28 hit dice and a CR of 19.

Debby

Hmmm... still, 28 seems just a bit excessive. Maybe... 21? 22? I'm going for bare minimum, as I said.

[Debihuman]

28 only seems excessive because you haven't looked at this monster in comparison to other 28 HD monsters i.e. the previously mentioned brass dragon. I'm just voicing my concern that you've gone overboard on special abilities without considering the consequences of what all those abilities will have.

Debby

[Gorgondantess]

28 only seems excessive because you haven't looked at this monster in comparison to other 28 HD monsters i.e. the previously mentioned brass dragon. I'm just voicing my concern that you've gone overboard on special abilities without considering the consequences of what all those abilities will have.

Debby

The point is that I want low HD for the abilities; that's it. I was really looking at the solar as a comparison.
The thing is, the dragon has that much HD because it's a big bruiser type; he's meant to wade in to combat, do a bunch of damage, actually hit things, etc. Look at the Solar- it has way more abilities than said brass dragon, and it's only 22 HD.
The Terror is meant as more of a glass cannon. It's not meant to be tough, or have a boatload of feats.
in the end, I think I'll compromise with 21 HD as a minimum; just enough to push it into epic territory, but not enough to make it a bruiser.
And, despite some evidence to the contrary, I do appreciate the criticism; you've helped me look at the thing from a new perspective, even if I do disagree on one point.

[Crafty Cultist]

Originally Posted by Crafty Cultist
I think mine is well rounded but I'm open to criticism

You often change the name of your creature: panic shade, whisper and wraith. I think you should edit your post to correct these and to add some better formatting. It's a bit difficult to read having all the special abilities crammed together without spaces between paragraph.

It has too few HD for the number of special abilities, special attacks and Challenge Rating. As I mentioned earlier, a good rule of thumb is that the total number of special attacks and special abilities should be no more than the number of Hit Dice a creature has. Your creature has 4 special attacks and 3 traits that aren't due to its type and subtype. Your creature should have at least 7 HD to be better balanced.

Dark whisper has a DC 15 Will save but you didn't mention which skill the DC is based on. DCs are usually 10 + 1/2 Creature's HD + ability modifier. It looks like it should be charisma-based. Also, Frantic Rage and Meld have DC 17 Will save. If these saves are dexterity-based, then the Will saves should be 18 not 17 [they get a +2 bonus for the ability focus feat].

Debby

thanks for the advice. The low hit dice was because they were hard to hurt while melded but it did make them a little frail. I've also spaced the special abilities and noted that their special abilities are CHA based

[Owrtho]

I'd note that if something is epic or not is based on CR, not HD. For that matter, I'm confused why something can't have a number of special abilities and low HD. I can understand if the argument was about CR, but I see no real problem with having a creature that can cause a lot of trouble but can't take much damage. As Gorgondantess said, its meant to be a glass cannon.

Owrtho

[Debihuman]

The point is that I want low HD for the abilities; that's it. I was really looking at the solar as a comparison.
The thing is, the dragon has that much HD because it's a big bruiser type; he's meant to wade in to combat, do a bunch of damage, actually hit things, etc. Look at the Solar- it has way more abilities than said brass dragon, and it's only 22 HD.

The solar also only has 209 hit points while the brass dragon has 305. You have to look at both special abilities and HD to get an accurate idea of appropriate CR.

However, neither of those creatures has the abilities that equals that of The Terrors. The Terror's DCs are overpowered in comparison to its HD. It has the equivelant powers of a 28 HD brass dragon while only having 14 HD. That's a problem.

I think that you estimated its CR too low. It's CR defintely isn't 17. 17 is too low. However, it only has 14 HD. I was suggesting that the special abilities be scaled back for an actual CR 17, or that that the HD be increased to 28 to match where the special abilities really are.

CRs are much harder to judge with glass cannons because so often the difference between a TPK and a dead monster is a single lucky die roll. That's why they aren't balanced and why they annoys players.

When I'm DMing, these are the creatures that I try to avoid at all costs because they are almost guaranteed to leave the players unhappy. If you have to roll a natural 20 to survive, the odds aren't looking good.

Note: a 17th-level Barbarian with 21 Wisdom needs to roll a natural a 20 to succeed on DC 31 Will save. The odds don't get much worse than that.

Debby

[BisectedBrioche]

Hey Bisected, your full attack is only partially finished. How many slams does it get as a full attack? BTW, I really like the name change.

Debby

2, and thanks.

[Holocron Coder]

Can anyone take a look at my entry and tear it to pieces for me? it's the Dread Golem.

[Mulletmanalive]

@World in General: I have uploaded my picture in its current state of completion. Aside from the fact that there is meant to be a Greater Ankou in the image, it's mostly complete, though the posing is a little unsatisfactory; foreshortening in hard lighting is difficult at best.

@Gorgondantess: Your aura ranges seem to be guidelines. If you're intending them to be event horizons, they need to be detectable by some means.

with this, the use of the word 'Suddenly' breaks flow. On a linguistic note, it disrupts the pace of the sentence and ruins any tension that you could have built.

The word "You" leaves similar clunks in sentences when read, again disrupting pace and flow, both of which are essential for making something seem scary.

As an initial suggestion of refinement, remove every instance of "You" and the "Suddenly" at the beginning and read it out loud. Add words where necessary to get the frantic pace necessary to make the reader feel panic along with their character.

@Holocron Coder:
Name: A little...flat. I for one wouldn't name my creation that. "Fear Engine Colossus" maybe. If you're going to engage in the megalomania that creating one of these puppies requires, you're going to at least enjoy saying the name you give it.

AC: Too high. Your math is wrong so it should be 34, 6, 34.

Attacks: I'm looking at the slam damage and thinking it's rather high. At least for a CR 18 monster that bestows Negative Levels. I'm not really sure what the standard is, but that's certainly above the curve.

DR: Why exactly is it DR/Adamantine and Bludgeoning? This looks like a combination based entirely on 'what's rare?' rather than flavour [always better]. Consider the liche: their DR is /Magic and Bludgeoning because they are bones so swords are ineffective and they are magically fortified by their horrible will.

Yours is supposed to be made of...ok, it doesn't say, but the picture looks like either stone or more likely cast iron, given the DR value. If anything, it should be DR/Adamantine and Magic, if you want something more than Adamantine.

Darkvision: 90ft is unusual and puts the PCs at a disadvantage [not that they couldn't find the thing by sound but still]. I'm sure that's the intention but i'm just pointing it out.

Immunity to Magic: If you don't qualify this as a specific ability, people WILL ignore it. Golems are never TOTALLY immune to magic [that kind of pisses on Wizards and Sorcerers]. Try giving it the entry for this ability for Iron Golems or Stone Golems. Similarly, it seems absurd that they can't have their Dread Aura suppressed somehow...probably Good Hope or something similar, maybe 3 rounds.

Dread Aura: 3.5 Dcs are based on 10 + 1/2 HD + Stat. This would make the aura's DC 10 + 10 [21/2, rounded down] + (-4) = 16, not 31. As a mounting fear effect with no limit, a DC of 16 is perfectly valid for an 18 CR creature.

Fatal Flaw: Traditionally, called shots in D&D have always been made with a -4 penalty. Now that i've corrected your AC calculatioNS; YOUR AC of 38 here fits that perfectly.

Fuelled By Fear: I was going to comment on this, but it's not likely to kick in nearly as absurdly now that i've corrected the DCs of Dread Aura. Flat save bonuses are simpler and scalar Attack bonuses rather than that +5 flourish at the end would be simpler to administer [a smidge but it's still a fair bit of counting at the beginning of the monster's turn].

Nightmare Gas: The DC on this is, once again, far too high due to miscalculation. It should be 20 [10 + 1/2 of 21(10) + Con (non-stat here)]. I'm not sure why you've included Negative levels in the damage here. That just seems to be pissing on the melee player's picnic somehow, as they're the ones going to fail that Will save. More to the point, why is it a Will save, poisons are Fort saves.

The -5 on Fear saves is nasty enough on its own, considering the power of the Fuelled by Fear power.

Helped?

[Debihuman]

I'd note that if something is epic or not is based on CR, not HD. For that matter, I'm confused why something can't have a number of special abilities and low HD. I can understand if the argument was about CR, but I see no real problem with having a creature that can cause a lot of trouble but can't take much damage. As Gorgondantess said, its meant to be a glass cannon.

Owrtho

First, epic creatures only need to have 21 or more HD. It has nothing to do with actual challenge rating. A 21 HD, creature gains epic feats. Secondly, in order to challenge epic parties, PCs with 21 or more levels, monsters do not need to have epic hit dice, they only need to have to have a CR of 21 or better. You can have epic creatures with lower CRs and non-epic creatures with epic CRs. Both can be called "Epic" but they refer to different things.

I agree that an unbalanced monster can be fun to make. However, it is absolutely dreadful to use. That's all I'm saying. Monster design gets stupid when you have very High Challenge Ratings with very low Hit Dice. I'm not saying it's not fun to make, only that it is really bad as a serious design.

• A. Special abilities add to CR as magical attacks. Furthermore, when you have very high saves, that should indicate what level the PCs need to be to succeed. Cluebat: If the PCs can only succeed on a DC save on a natural 20, that is a sure sign that the monster is too overpowered for the PCs' level.
  
• B. Any time you have a Save or Die situation, you can see how much it annoys the players. Save vs. Die is the ultimate in DM killing PCs. There's nothing but a luck of the die. Except under heroic circumstances, it's a killjoy. Save vs. Die, rinse, repeat is not fun for players. It's not fun for a DM to kill off the entire party when they repeatedly fail their saves unless you wish the campaign to end with a sudden stop. If TPK is the intention, it is a blatant sign of DM immaturity. I have seen far too much of "let's make something unkillable just to mess with the PCs." Why bother with any stats at all? Just kill them randomly. It saves you a lot of work and has pretty much the same effect in game.
  
• C. The people who think it is kewl rarely bother to see if anyone else thinks it is. It's definitely not for DMs who want to see powergaming and munchkinism stopped dead in its tracks. Munchkin DMimg is not any better. I'd even say it is worse because the players are usually counting on the DM to be fair.

An appropriately challenged encounter uses up 15-25% of a party's resources. More than that and it is too difficult. Less than that, and the party is doing no work for what is probably a lot of gain. Unfortunately, Low HD, High CR monsters almost always miss the curve. They either kill the party or die in seconds. So party either uses most, if not all, of its resources or almost none. As I'm not a fan of letting my freinds' PCs die on a die roll, I try to avoid using these kinds of critters.

Debby

[D_Lord]

Could someone do some PEACH on this please?

Spoiler

Show

Nightmare

Nightmare is an Inherited Template that can be applied to any creature.

Size and Type: Size is unchanged, Type becomes Outsider with the native subtype.

Hit Dice: Unchanged.

Speed: Unchanged.

Armor Class: Unchanged.

Attacks: Recalculate Base Attack Bonus if it changes due to the type change.

Damage: Unchanged.

Special Attacks: The Nightmare retains all of the Special Attacks of the Base Creature, plus gains the following:

Aura of Fear (Su): Any living creature able to see the Nightmare must make a Willpower Save (Save DC is 10 plus half hit dice plus Charisma Modifier. If the opponent is already Shaken, Frightened, or Panicked the Save DC is +5) or be affected by the aura. If they succeed, they are immune to this Nightmare's Aura of Fear for 24 hours. If they fail the effect depends on the Hit Dice of the Nightmare. If it has 7 Hit Dice or less the opponents are Shaken for 2d6 rounds. If it has 8-10 Hit Dice they are Frightened for 2d6 rounds. If it has 11-15 Hit Dice they are Panicked for 2d6 rounds. If it has 16-20 Hit Dice they die if they fail the Save. If the nightmare has 21+ Hit Dice they die if they fail the save, and rise 1d4 days later as a Nightmare themselves (i.e. apply this template to them).

The Nightmare may also choose one selection from the following list for every 5 Hit Dice it has (max of 3 additional special attacks):

Horrific Appearance (Su): Identical to the Ghost Ability listed on page 118 of the Monster Manual.

Terror Attack (Su): If an opponent has been affected by the Nightmares Aura of Fear, it may attempt this attack. The Nightmare makes a single Natural Weapon attack (or any attack if it has no Natural Weapon) as a Full Round Action. If it is successful, the victim must make a Willpower Save (10 plus half hit dice plus Charisma Modifier) or be Paralyzed for 2d4 rounds in addition to the regular damage.

Flay Victim (Su): The Nightmare gains a damage bonus against victims who have failed their Save against a fear effect of some kind. The Damage Bonus depends on how badly they are affected: Shaken: +2, Frightened: +4, Panicked: +6.

Permanent Fear (Su): The Nightmare can scream as a Full Round Action, cursing one opponent within 60' if they fail a Willpower Save (Save DC is 10 plus half hit dice plus Charisma Modifier). If they succeed they are immune to this ability for 24 hours, otherwise they are permanently Shaken until Remove Curse, Dispel Evil, Miracle, or Wish is cast on them.

Dream Haunter (Su): One opponent within 60' must make a Willpower Save (DC is 10 plus half hit dice plus Charisma modifier). If he succeeds he is immune to this ability for 24 hours. If he fails he has nightmares every night until he either kills you, or has a spell cast to end it (Remove Curse, Miracle, Wish, Break Enchantment, Dispel Evil). Each night he has a nightmare he gets no rest. This means he doesn't heal hit point or ability damage, doesn't regain spells or power points, and is Fatigued after waking up. After the second day he wakes up Exhausted. After a week he risks a psychotic break. He must make another Save (same DC), or his mind begins to deteriorate, and he suffers from Insanity, as per the spell of the same name. This is a Standard action and can be done once every 1d4 rounds.

Invulnerable (Su): Against opponents who have failed to save against your Aura of Fear you have DR 5/-.



Special Qualities: The Nightmare retains all of the Special Qualities of the Base Creature (except Mindless), plus gains the following:

Daylight Vulnerability: Nightmares of 10 Hit Dice or less are destroyed instantly upon exposure to sunlight. Nightmares of 11+ Hit Dice take 4d6 damage pre round of exposure to the sun.

Immunities (Ex): Nightmares are immune to Mind-Affecting effects, poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, death effects, and polymorph. They do not need to breathe eat or sleep

Saves: Recalculate Base Saves due to type change.

Abilities: Mental stats increase to a minimum of 10 if they are currently below 10. Otherwise +2 Int, +2 Wis, and +2 Cha.

Skills: Unchanged. Unless Base Creature was Mindless. Then choose the approrpriate skills.

Feats: Unchanged. Unless Base creature was Mindless. If so, choose the appropriate number of Feats.

Environment: Unchanged or Any.

Organization: Unchanged.

Challenge Rating: +1 if 7 HD or less, +2 if 8-14 HD, +3 if 15+ HD.

Treasure: Unchanged or None.

Alignment: Always Chaotic Evil.

Advancement: Unchanged

Level Adjustment: +3

Expale:
Nightworm (Purple Worm, Nightmare Template)
Gargantuan Outsider (Native)
Hit Dice: 16d10+112 (200 hp)
Initiative: -2
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), burrow 20 ft., swim 10 ft.
Armor Class: 19 (-4 Size, -2 Dex, +15 Natural), touch 4, flat-footed 19
Base Attack/Grapple: +16/+40
Attack: Bite +25 melee (2d8+12)
Full Attack: Bite +25 melee (2d8+12) and Sting +20 melee (2d6+6 plus poison)
Space/Reach: 20 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved Grab, Swallow Whole, Poison, Aura of Fear, Dream Haunter, Permanent Fear, Flay Victim
Special Qualities: Tremorsense 60 ft., Daylight Vulnerability, Immunities
Saves: Fort +17, Ref +8, Will +10
[b]Abilities: Str 35, Dex 6, Con 25, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Listen +19, Swim +20
Feats: Aweesome Blow, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Bite), Weapon Focus (Sting)
Environment: Underground
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 15
Treasure: No Coins, 50% Goods (stone only), no items
Alignment: Always Chaotic Evil
Advancement: 16-32 HD (Gargantuan), 33-48 HD (Collosal)
Level Adjustment: --


Nightworms are gigantic wormlike monstrosities that sometimes surface at night to prey on unsuspecting towns.

Improved Grab (Ex): If hte Nightworm hits successfully with it's Bite attack it can make a Grapple check as a Free Action without provoking an Attack of Opportunity. If successful it may Swallow the next round.

Swallow Whole (Ex): A Nightworm can swallow any creature smaller than itself with a successful Grapple check. Swallowed opponents take 2d8+12 crushing damage plus 8 points of acid damage each round. A swallowed creature can cut it's way out with a light Slashing or Piercing weapon by dealing 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 17). Once the opponent exits, muscular action closes the hole, and other swallowed opponents must cut their own way out. A Nightworm can hold 2 Large, 8 Medium, 32 Small, 128 Tiny, or 512 Diminutive or smaller opponents.

Poison (Ex): Injury, DC 25 Fortitude Save, Initial damage is 1d6 Str, Secondary damage is 2d6 Str. Save DC is Constitution Based.

Aura of Fear (Su): Living opponents who can see the Nightworm must make a DC 18 Willpower save or they die (Save DC is +5 if opponent is already Shaken, Frightened, or Panicked). If they succeed, they are immune to this Nightmare's Aura of Fear for 24 hours.

Dream Haunter (Su): One opponent within 60' must make a DC 14 Willpower Save. If he succeeds he is immune to this ability for 24 hours. If he fails he has nightmares every night until he either kills you, or has a spell cast to end it (Remove Curse, Miracle, Wish, Break Enchantment, Dispel Evil). Each night he has a nightmare he gets no rest. This means he doesn't heal hit point or ability damage, doesn't regain spells or power points, and is Fatigued after waking up. After the second day he wakes up Exhausted. After a week he risks a psychotic break. He must make another Save (same DC), or his mind begins to deteriorate, and he suffers from Insanity, as per the spell of the same name. This is a Standard action and can be done once every 1d4 rounds.

Permanent Fear (Su): Nightworms can scream as a Full Round Action, cursing one opponent within 60' if they fail a DC 18 Willpower Save. If they succeed they are immune to this ability for 24 hours, otherwise they are permanently Shaken until Remove Curse, Dispel Evil, Miracle, or Wish is cast on them.

Flay Victim (Su): The Nightmare gains a damage bonus against victims who have failed their Save against a fear effect of some kind. The Damage Bonus depends on how badly they are affected: Shaken: +2, Frightened: +4, Panicked: +6.

Daylight Vulnerability: Nightworms take 4d6 damage per round of exposure to the sun.

Immunities (Ex): Nightmares are immune to Mind-Affecting effects, poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, death effects, and polymorph. They do not need to breathe eat or sleep

Skills: Nightworms get a +8 Racial Bonus on Swim checks, and may always Take 10 on a Swim check, even if endangered or threatened. They may use the Run action while swimming in a straight line.

Combat: Nightworms will use their Dream Haunter ability to reduce a victim to madness before appearing one night to devour him. If confronted they try to curse as many as possible with Permanent Fear before leaving, or just wading into melee.



Epic level Nightmares will come later.

[Gamerlord]

Anyone have any criticism for my Tartanis?

[Sir Shadow]

Could someone do some PEACH on this please?

Spoiler

Show

Nightmare

Nightmare is an Inherited Template that can be applied to any creature.

Size and Type: Size is unchanged, Type becomes Outsider with the native subtype.

Hit Dice: Unchanged.

Speed: Unchanged.

Armor Class: Unchanged.

Attacks: Recalculate Base Attack Bonus if it changes due to the type change.

Damage: Unchanged.

Special Attacks: The Nightmare retains all of the Special Attacks of the Base Creature, plus gains the following:

Aura of Fear (Su): Any living creature able to see the Nightmare must make a Willpower Save (Save DC is 10 plus half hit dice plus Charisma Modifier. If the opponent is already Shaken, Frightened, or Panicked the Save DC is +5) or be affected by the aura. If they succeed, they are immune to this Nightmare's Aura of Fear for 24 hours. If they fail the effect depends on the Hit Dice of the Nightmare. If it has 7 Hit Dice or less the opponents are Shaken for 2d6 rounds. If it has 8-10 Hit Dice they are Frightened for 2d6 rounds. If it has 11-15 Hit Dice they are Panicked for 2d6 rounds. If it has 16-20 Hit Dice they die if they fail the Save. If the nightmare has 21+ Hit Dice they die if they fail the save, and rise 1d4 days later as a Nightmare themselves (i.e. apply this template to them).

The Nightmare may also choose one selection from the following list for every 5 Hit Dice it has (max of 3 additional special attacks):

Horrific Appearance (Su): Identical to the Ghost Ability listed on page 118 of the Monster Manual.

Terror Attack (Su): If an opponent has been affected by the Nightmares Aura of Fear, it may attempt this attack. The Nightmare makes a single Natural Weapon attack (or any attack if it has no Natural Weapon) as a Full Round Action. If it is successful, the victim must make a Willpower Save (10 plus half hit dice plus Charisma Modifier) or be Paralyzed for 2d4 rounds in addition to the regular damage.

Flay Victim (Su): The Nightmare gains a damage bonus against victims who have failed their Save against a fear effect of some kind. The Damage Bonus depends on how badly they are affected: Shaken: +2, Frightened: +4, Panicked: +6.

Permanent Fear (Su): The Nightmare can scream as a Full Round Action, cursing one opponent within 60' if they fail a Willpower Save (Save DC is 10 plus half hit dice plus Charisma Modifier). If they succeed they are immune to this ability for 24 hours, otherwise they are permanently Shaken until Remove Curse, Dispel Evil, Miracle, or Wish is cast on them.

Dream Haunter (Su): One opponent within 60' must make a Willpower Save (DC is 10 plus half hit dice plus Charisma modifier). If he succeeds he is immune to this ability for 24 hours. If he fails he has nightmares every night until he either kills you, or has a spell cast to end it (Remove Curse, Miracle, Wish, Break Enchantment, Dispel Evil). Each night he has a nightmare he gets no rest. This means he doesn't heal hit point or ability damage, doesn't regain spells or power points, and is Fatigued after waking up. After the second day he wakes up Exhausted. After a week he risks a psychotic break. He must make another Save (same DC), or his mind begins to deteriorate, and he suffers from Insanity, as per the spell of the same name. This is a Standard action and can be done once every 1d4 rounds.

Invulnerable (Su): Against opponents who have failed to save against your Aura of Fear you have DR 5/-.



Special Qualities: The Nightmare retains all of the Special Qualities of the Base Creature (except Mindless), plus gains the following:

Daylight Vulnerability: Nightmares of 10 Hit Dice or less are destroyed instantly upon exposure to sunlight. Nightmares of 11+ Hit Dice take 4d6 damage pre round of exposure to the sun.

Immunities (Ex): Nightmares are immune to Mind-Affecting effects, poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, death effects, and polymorph. They do not need to breathe eat or sleep

Saves: Recalculate Base Saves due to type change.

Abilities: Mental stats increase to a minimum of 10 if they are currently below 10. Otherwise +2 Int, +2 Wis, and +2 Cha.

Skills: Unchanged. Unless Base Creature was Mindless. Then choose the approrpriate skills.

Feats: Unchanged. Unless Base creature was Mindless. If so, choose the appropriate number of Feats.

Environment: Unchanged or Any.

Organization: Unchanged.

Challenge Rating: +1 if 7 HD or less, +2 if 8-14 HD, +3 if 15+ HD.

Treasure: Unchanged or None.

Alignment: Always Chaotic Evil.

Advancement: Unchanged

Level Adjustment: +3


Epic level Nightmares will come later.

This thread isn't the place for this. Post it in the homebrew board if you want it to get PEACH'd

[Debihuman]

hey guys, I would help me a lot if you'd put in a link to the critter in the message section when you want something PEACHED. I keep losing the thread.

Edit:

Gamerkid, the Tartanis has too many Toughness feats. It doesn't get a feat every level only at 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, etc. for a total of Toughness times 11. Also, it could have Epic Toughness X4 which is much much better than Toughness. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicToughness

Also, you should think about giving it better feats than just Toughness. That is so boring. Ability Focus is a good feat for this monster.

Please state if the attacks are touch attacks, melee attacks or range attacks in the stat block. Since it has three eyes on three different heads does it have All-Around Vision?

Str 16 for a Huge creature is really wimpy. Str for a 18-foot tall creature with 10 legs should be a lot higher. 25 would be far more appropriate. With all those legs, why isn't it immune from tripping?

You should list Darkvision 60 ft. in its special abilities.

CR is probably closer to 15 than 20 even if you give it Epic Toughness X4.

Your Saves are all missing the modifier they are based on. Saves are 10 + 1/2 monster's HD and ability modifier.

Holocron:

Dread golem looks okay. The lore checks are broken. At least go by HD and increase by 5. Starting at 18 doesn't make any sense at all. Normally lore checks are Creature's HD +10 and increase by 5. If you deviate from this you should state why you are doing so. Are these so common that everyone knows about them?

You only mention the horror engine in the lore section but it should have its own section in special qualities. That's information that sounds integral to the creature.

Debby

[Holocron Coder]

@Holocron Coder:
Name: A little...flat. I for one wouldn't name my creation that. "Fear Engine Colossus" maybe. If you're going to engage in the megalomania that creating one of these puppies requires, you're going to at least enjoy saying the name you give it.

AC: Too high. Your math is wrong so it should be 34, 6, 34.

Corrected.

Attacks: I'm looking at the slam damage and thinking it's rather high. At least for a CR 18 monster that bestows Negative Levels. I'm not really sure what the standard is, but that's certainly above the curve.

It's actually at the curve, but I dropped it because of the negative level.

DR: Why exactly is it DR/Adamantine and Bludgeoning? This looks like a combination based entirely on 'what's rare?' rather than flavour [always better]. Consider the liche: their DR is /Magic and Bludgeoning because they are bones so swords are ineffective and they are magically fortified by their horrible will.

Yours is supposed to be made of...ok, it doesn't say, but the picture looks like either stone or more likely cast iron, given the DR value. If anything, it should be DR/Adamantine and Magic, if you want something more than Adamantine.

I was actually basing it off the Clay Golem (which has DR 10/adamantine and bludgeoning), but changed it to just adamantine to weaken it a bit.

Darkvision: 90ft is unusual and puts the PCs at a disadvantage [not that they couldn't find the thing by sound but still]. I'm sure that's the intention but i'm just pointing it out.

Corrected.

Immunity to Magic: If you don't qualify this as a specific ability, people WILL ignore it. Golems are never TOTALLY immune to magic [that kind of pisses on Wizards and Sorcerers]. Try giving it the entry for this ability for Iron Golems or Stone Golems. Similarly, it seems absurd that they can't have their Dread Aura suppressed somehow...probably Good Hope or something similar, maybe 3 rounds.

Actually, it's a well-known ability that golems ARE immune to magic. In fact, I copied the wording straight from the SRD in adding the ability to the description (but swapped out lightning/fire/etc damage for negative energy).

Dread Aura: 3.5 Dcs are based on 10 + 1/2 HD + Stat. This would make the aura's DC 10 + 10 [21/2, rounded down] + (-4) = 16, not 31. As a mounting fear effect with no limit, a DC of 16 is perfectly valid for an 18 CR creature.

The only thing is that, at a DC16, your weakest save would be +5, and if you don't have a +5 cloak, you're an idiot, generally considered. That's about a 70% success rate with NO ability bonus calculated in. I dropped it significantly to a 20, since what you said otherwise made sense.

Fatal Flaw: Traditionally, called shots in D&D have always been made with a -4 penalty. Now that i've corrected your AC calculatioNS; YOUR AC of 38 here fits that perfectly.

I was actually off a bit, since I considered the engine to be medium size, then the -4 penalty. But it's still close (40).

Fuelled By Fear: I was going to comment on this, but it's not likely to kick in nearly as absurdly now that i've corrected the DCs of Dread Aura. Flat save bonuses are simpler and scalar Attack bonuses rather than that +5 flourish at the end would be simpler to administer [a smidge but it's still a fair bit of counting at the beginning of the monster's turn].

Nightmare Gas: The DC on this is, once again, far too high due to miscalculation. It should be 20 [10 + 1/2 of 21(10) + Con (non-stat here)]. I'm not sure why you've included Negative levels in the damage here. That just seems to be pissing on the melee player's picnic somehow, as they're the ones going to fail that Will save. More to the point, why is it a Will save, poisons are Fort saves.

The -5 on Fear saves is nasty enough on its own, considering the power of the Fuelled by Fear power.

Weakened to match the same DC and changed it to a Fort save, since that makes sense.

Holocron:

Dread golem looks okay. The lore checks are broken. At least go by HD and increase by 5. Starting at 18 doesn't make any sense at all. Normally lore checks are Creature's HD +10 and increase by 5. If you deviate from this you should state why you are doing so. Are these so common that everyone knows about them?

You only mention the horror engine in the lore section but it should have its own section in special qualities. That's information that sounds integral to the creature.

Changed appropriately. To be honest, I used the DCs as the only other CR18 creature in the MMIV, since I figured it was CR-based. And, changed Fatal Flaw to be Fear Engine, since that is the core of what Fatal Flaw was, anyway.

[Owrtho]

Well, I can see where in some cases that could be a problem. But then it also depends on how the creatures functions. It could have numerous abilities that cause trouble for players without actually being particularly deadly on their own, and have a reasonable damage amount for its level, and make up for low health by having abilities that make it hard to catch or hit. It would still risk the chance of a lucky hit, but would be less likely to have a TPK on a few unlucky rolls. Also, I never say you complain about more abilities than HD for the shiny, and it had 2 HD, 9 special attacks, and 4 special qualities not related to creature type.

That said, I'm planning to try making a creature some time this week that functions somewhat like I mentioned before. My ideas so fare are as follows:

Name: Dread Distortion

features:
Would target a single creature. That creature would suffer from their surroundings seeming always off as the Dread distortion has the ability to distort reality within a limited area, linked to its target (it would likely be from the far realms trying to breach the material plane). Effects would include such things as level areas seeming to be not so, objects being in different places than they were placed, reflections being off from reality, distances seeming longer or shorter when traveled, angles seeming off, etc. Mechanically this would result in things such as balance checks, fear effects, miss chances, fear effects, traveling too far or not as far as intended, traveling wrong direction (all for the target).

Each time the target succumbs to the effects, increases the power of the dread distortion (done through increasing HD).

After a certain number of HD is reached, effects begin spreading in a radius around the person, radius increases by 5' for each HD increase after the first one at which the radius occurs. At this point anyone within the radius can be effected.

Once a certain number of HD is reached, gains the ability to partially enter the material plane. At this point it would form tendrils around the distorted area, and have its main body focused around the target (who would become frightened, and would every turn have to make will saves to avoid becoming more so, with a high enough success allowing them to go down a level of fear. If they cease being afraid they could then attempt to take actions). Number of tendrils would be based on the number of HD the dread distortion has (likely up to 1/3 its HD rounded down at time of manifestation). Killing a tendril would reduce its HD by 1 and subsequently reduce the area of distortion. Would mainly use move actions to act (attacking would take a 5' move action for example), but would be shared among all the tendrils (could move as many times as it wanted but only up to its max move distance), would take a 15' move to move main body, anywhere in distortion and a 5' more to move tendrils anywhere in distortion (tendrils would only be able to change position once per turn). Movement would cause a portal for the remainder of the round linking the two locations (treat the locations as being adjacent). If the area is reduced to 10' or less, the dread distortion is forced back into its own plane but not killed (still targets the person and will likely try again). Movement distance based on HD (likely 5' per 4 or 5 HD).

Upon doing the above, may cause a somewhat weak version of the Weird to effect all creatures withing the distortion radius (might replace the death effect with insanity though, and for that matter might make it able to sacrifice a tendril (causing the HD loss as if it were killed) to afflict a target with the Phantasmal Killer spell, but with the change of insanity instead of death if failed, would require a move into the creatures square as well).

If one notices the effects on someone, while it is not currently trying to enter the plane, can attempt to cast remove curse or a similar spell (must be aimed specifically at the dread distortion, even if it would normally be otherwise for the spell, it also will not effect any other curses currently afflicting the target). There is a 50% chance that it will fail, this is increased by 5% for each HD more the dread distortion has than the caster level (if the caster level is higher the failure chance is reduced by 5%). If it passes this failure chance treat the spell as normal for removing a curse. If the spell succeeds an visible distortion will appear around the target. True Seeing or a similar spell may then be used to see it. It will appear to be a tendril of the dread distortion with HD equal to its HD. Each time the HD is reduced by 1 full hit die, it looses an HD (reduces max HP, doesn't cause damage). During this time the dread distortion can not attack though there is a 50% miss chance for attacks. Every round there is a cumulative 5% chance it will recover from the remove curse and go back to as it was before (keeping any loss of HD). All attempts afterwords to repeat the process will automatically fail for the next 48 hours. If successfully killed, it is simply forced to release its grip on its target, but the true creature is still alive in its home plane (and likely will remember you, if you live long enough and are unlucky enough to encounter it again). Killing the target automatically makes it loose its grip on the material plane, but is rather less heroic.

So, any thoughts on the basic idea of the creature?

Owrtho