Wizard Duo (3.5)

[Atsu333]

My friend and I are going to be in a Forgotten Realms campaign, and are planning on playing a couple of wizards. Our only limitation is no variants, and a 0 lvl adjustment race, since we're starting at lvl 1.

Does anyone have any good pair-builds out there?

Or could someone make a Robin Wizard to partner the Batman one?

[Flickerdart]

Your second wizard should be a Conjuration specialist and focus on blasting and summoning, since you need someone to hit things while the Batman buffs and debuffs.

[Eldariel]

Having one guy be a summoner of sorts could definitely pay off big time, and having both pack some offensive damage magic certainly helps. Summoner and Controller-mages would probably work well together, although those roles aren't mutually exclusive. A focused summoner provides you with meat and versatility, while the Controller makes that meat do its thing.

With both packing some variety of heavy offense (the non-summoner probably focusing more on being able to hit opponents hard, either disabling or killing them outright fast) and one handling the summoning and talking (the summoner needs some Cha anyways, so he's the natural Face Wizard) with the other handling traps (and Roguish skills) and possible direct offense and both packing a bunch of controlling spells, defenses, save-or-loses and so on, it would work out just fine. Although the summoner really wants the Conjurer ability "Rapid Summoning" to work out.


The summoner is probably fine off as a Malconvoker build of sorts, while the tricky Wizard will probably dabble in Fatespinner, Unseen Seer, Loremaster et co. Of course, if Incantatrix is allowed, that's that - will give you all the offense you could ever need. Both should Bind a monster and probably try to pick Improved Familiar and pick something handy preferably while maxing Use Magic Device. That'll keep the life easy for you.

[Bulwer]

I'd go with something with direct damage to complement a Batman. Might I suggest the Mailman? It's designed for sorcerers, but could easily be adapted.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1124745

[Flickerdart]

Who needs skills? Knock, Dimension Door, Spider Climb and such are Batman staples. Suggestion and Charm Person are better than CHA. That's what makes Wizards so powerful - they don't need silly things like stats or skills. They have magic.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Malconvoker creates meatshields, preferably built as a Focused Specialist Conjurer with Improved Init. For a partner, Focused Specialist Transmuter based around buff, debuff, and control spells. Between the 2 they should have every school and 12 spells of each level each day.

[Eldariel]

Who needs skills? Knock, Dimension Door, Spider Climb and such are Batman staples. Suggestion and Charm Person are better than CHA. That's what makes Wizards so powerful - they don't need silly things like stats or skills. They have magic.

Ah, but they can have skills. Also, Search+Disable Device are still a good idea. Disagree with me? Play a deadly dungeon. If you trigger traps, regardless of whether it's your summon or your ghost, if that trap is an alarm, a summon, a destroy-important-object, a collapse-dungeon trap or such, you'll be sorry you triggered it.

Suggestion and Charm Person are nice, but since you already want Bluff for Deceptive Summons, Deceitful Bargain and so on, being good at 'em doesn't hurt outside that. Not everyone can fail your Will-saves, but everyone is subjected to skill checks (and they aren't mind-affecting to boot). The whole point is that since the party has those resources available, it would be foolish to not acquire them.


So yea, I mostly agree with you: Open Lock is unnecessary, Gather Information serves little purpose, you won't really need Intimidate as a Wizard and so on. However, having Bluff, Diplomacy, Use Magic Device, Sleight of Hand, Search, Disable Device, Tumble and Knowledges wouldn't hurt.

[Thurbane]

Some good +0 LA races for wizards are: Dream Dwarf, Gray Elf, Whisper Gnome or Illumian.

[Eldariel]

Some good +0 LA races for wizards are: Dream Dwarf, Gray Elf, Whisper Gnome or Illumian.

Since it's Forgotten Realms, add Lesser Tiefling and Strongheart Halfling. And overall, Dragonborn Gray Elf.

[ericgrau]

I'd suggest a sorcerer and wizard combo, except make the sorcerer the batman and the wizard the blaster/semi-batman. Give the sorcerer all the staple batman spells, the ones that should be prepared every day anyway. That way he can pick any one he wants at the beginning or end of the day without worrying about not having it later. Plus he can fit as many or more different spells on his permanently memorized list as the wizard, for maximum versatility of spells you always want to have anyway. The wizard has a higher max spell level half the time, for more effective blasting. And when you're adding metamagic to blasting, you pretty much know what you want ahead of time. With control spells it might not be so cut and dry, so the versatility of spontaneous metamagic helps there. Or if there's a high level control spell you really and truly need, the wizard can use his highest spell level for that until they gain a level. But often spell level doesn't matter as much for control. If you know you'll be up against a specific type of challenge a day ahead of time so you need a certain control or etc. spell, or a plot point makes you need a certain divination spell (again with 1+ day's notice) or etc. the wizard can fill in any oddball spells they need. But for low level utility both should use dirt cheap scrolls). The wizard can scribe them for both of them to use (the xp cost is next to nothing). I suppose this might also help both players feel more useful, rather than 1 being the "sidekick". One's the maligned sorc but he's the batman, the other's a blaster (mostly) but he's a wizard.

[RavKal]

Second wizard in the group here, just informing that we're going into this with the idea of excess cheese, so we're going to take Faerie Mysteries Initiate. Other than that we really want to stick with the wizard as the base class and avoid blastering.

thanks for your help thus far guys, keep it coming!

[sebsmith]

It should be noted that the more wizards you have, the stronger they get, since they can share known spells. This is especially true if one takes a feat like collegiate wizard, which boots the number of spells know.

[aje8]

I'd probably play this pair:

1. Summoner Taking Rapid Summoning Variant and Fighter Feats Variant (Improved Intiative)
Focused Conjurer 3/Master Specalist 2/Malconvoker 10/Master Specalist 5
Banned Schools: Evocation, Enchantment, Necromancy

2. Stereotypical God (Batman Wizard) with the emphasis on Battlefield Control. Taking Fighter Feats (Improved Intiative) and Abrubt Jaunt
Focused Conjurer 5/ Full Casting Whatever X
Banned Schools: Evocation, Enchantment, Abjuration

You can both probably get away with banning Evocation and Echantment because the summons can take of damage dealing and enchantment is completley overshadowed by the other schools SoDs.

Tranmutation Specaliziation is NOT a good idea. Buffing is not all that good because the wizards need no buffing and the Summoner will buff his own summons mostly.

[Eldariel]

1. Summoner Taking Rapid Summoning Variant and Fighter Feats Variant (Improved Intiative)

Why not the Conjurer-variant that gets Augment Summoning over Scribe Scroll? Seems much more directly useful.

[Random NPC]

Wizard Batman with Sorcerer Robin.

Or Sorcerer Mailman

[aje8]

Why not the Conjurer-variant that gets Augment Summoning over Scribe Scroll? Seems much more directly useful.

Well..... Intiative is very important for a Summoner.... but you're right.

Honestly, I just forgot about that variant.

However, Improved Intiative still may be a useful feat for the summoner as every turn the monsters take before the summoner is a turn they're getting mauled w/o meatshields.

Speaking of which, I'd reccomend buying a Riding Dog immediatley, it can take on most ECL 1 ecnounters on it's own and can be a tank until the summoner comes into his own at ~Lv.5 or the party buys another animal tank.