Erfworld 145 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 132

[Drakron]

I suspect the place was rigged to collapse, notice how he mentions parts leaving just the dungeon to not be collapsed.

Either way, next turn I suspect Wanda will just uncroak the dead troops and turn the tide and as long the dungeon is intact the city is standing.

I hope its ends as as grasping victory from the jaws of defeat with the return of the Tool and a new addition, uncroaked Ansom.

[Tweed]

Hallelujah! Finding out that arrogant boop is dead made my entire night.

[elrod13]

Don't write off Bogroll just yet. The RCC troops are burning the "beast" for a reason. Parson's interuption of their efforts may give Bogroll the chance he needs to regenerate. The best part of Ansom dying this way is that he died at the hands of a commoner "beast". I hope the disgust Ansom felt was only excelled by the pain of his impact in the courtyard. And, it looks like Sizemore will have one more treasure to mine at GK: The Arkenpliers, buried in the rubble.

[Maxymiuk]

though with Ansom dead, and now massive losses, it seems like the coalition's morale is broken

I think a lot more than that is broken right now.


As to the abruptness of Ansom's death... no, I like it, and here's why:

Ansom and Parson, when viewed as narrative devices, represent two different ideologies of conducting warfare. Ansom is the archetypal "stout hearts, gentlemen, set your lances and CHARGE" general, who has all the subtlety of a hammer. He thrives on combat - indeed, it's not a far stretch to say that he's the Coalition's best warlord and fighter. Furthermore, he's nobility, which means he brings chivalry, honor, and a sense of superiority - as seen through the lens of Erfworld's rules, of course - to the table.

Also, look at it this way: Ansom has all the trappings of a hero - great fighting ability (along with a magic weapon), charisma, a penchant for self-sacrifice, and copious amounts of good luck. It seems that if he's going do destined to die, he's going to go down fighting, surrounded by the corpses of his enemies - hells, by Erfworld rules, this is probably exactly what would happen.

Meanwhile Parson is the canny general, who knows that in order to win, you have to fight dirty. He also knows that victory often lies beyond the realm of combat - he's capable of fighting this war on multiple levels, hitting the Coalition where they're weakest, in places where stats and bonuses don't really apply.

So the way Ansom croaks is really a two-fer. First, his death shows that Parson is the superior general: he looked past the stats, he found a weakness, and he created a situation in which none of Ansom's combat prowess mattered one whit. Second, such an... ignoble manner of death brings the hero image crashing down. There was no glorious battle, no desperate last stand. Ansom simply died. Without warning. Like any common soldier marching into battle. There's a clear message here: there aren't any heroes in a war - just people doing their damnest to win.

[Xenon]

O_O

well, i dont think that the fight was off-camera, i think its one of those pages they said was mostly combat that would be in the print-only version.

i miss bogroll already.

[Pointyleaf]

So - Ansom is dead (and assumably not resurrectable), and the rest of the GK forces are in the dungeon, where Sizemore/goblins have tunnel bonus, and Wanda/uncroaked have dance bonus.

The pliers may be buried, laying around in the rubble, in the hands of a RCC leader, or out of GK proper by now. Same for Ansom's body.

I guess Parson could have just sent Wanda back out to recommence dance-fighting, but with RCC leaders and the archons around, the DDR might have started back up again.. so collapsing the courtyard/tower seemed like the best way to kill off the camping troops.

I'm guessing that Ansom's death will be expounded upon in the book. It *should* be, since he's the main villain so far.. On the other hand, I like Maxymiuk's thoughts.

So.. whose turn is it next? Does the alliance's turn get moved up, since they paired with Charlie? Or is Charlie's turn moved back to later in the day?

Edit: Charlie, not Charley.

[Fjolnir]

this basically finished off the RCC, now if they end turn all the mighty leader of the doomed has to deal with is the only general who actually is a threat to his prowess in the world without a big hulking army, Charlescomm

[The Minx]

O_O

Seconded. O_O

well, i dont think that the fight was off-camera, i think its one of those pages they said was mostly combat that would be in the print-only version.

i miss bogroll already.

As do I. But where did you get the news about the print-only version featuring their battle?

[mrlovanhey]

... 487d6 falling damage (cookie for reference catch) without his helmet this time (credit for pointing that out to lamech) and is croaked.
RIP Bogroll.

487d6 points of damage. If I'm not much mistaken its a Minmax quote from Goblins.

[Ozar]

This is the one true proper way to finish off the villain.

[Dacia Brabant]

Mr. Balder, Mr. Noguchi, I know you guys are saving a lot of the "action scenes" for the print version, I understand why you're doing that, but this was a climactic moment. It really would've helped the readers you have now to see the fight play out on-screen instead of just seeing the opening move and only hearing about the results afterward from a second-hand source.

Dismiss this opinion if you wish, it's not my story, I'm not saying I could do better, but I think it was a mistake to hide the ball like this.

As do I. But where did you get the news about the print-only version featuring their battle?

Point No. 3 in this thread indicates there'll be bonus pages in the print comic, mostly consisting of fight scenes that didn't make it to the web version.

[Sunday]

He had to die. It just means that if there is anybody left Jill will round them up and hunt down Parson for the rest of his days for revenge.
Plus for you whiners, you must remember that if this was in a book the fall and then the death of Ansom would probably be next to each other so it'd be less abrupt. heck if you read this entire thing again in a few months or so it wouldn't seem so sudden. don't be dissapointed because the character that everyone hated because he was too good to be true died. if anything it offers interesting story development for later.

[SteveMB]

As do I. But where did you get the news about the print-only version featuring their battle?

There was a general comment about additional pages being included in the print version at some points.

However, I don't think this is likely to be an example. We already saw all the relevant action -- Bogroll showed up veiled to look like Parson, ambushed Ansom, knocked him off his carpet, and the two of them fell with Bogroll's hards on Ansom's throat. Really, what more is there to see other than the aftermath?

(Another thought occurs to me -- how much did Ansom tell any of the other RCC leaders about the "surrender", and if so did those particular leaders survive? It's possible that, as far as the highest-ranking survivors know, Ansom simply went off on a wild tear of derring-do (again) and got himself croaked.)

[Gilthans]

That was AWESOME.
Rob and Jamie, you never cease to amaze me. Ansom's death was a long time coming, and it was only a matter of time until his recklessness and arrogance would be the end of him, Parson exploited that.
And as the city came crashing down on the city, Parson's chances of winning quickly grew... If RedLord (which I expect will survive the crash, carrying the 'Pliers... Cherkov's gun people, she was just seen holding it) continues the attack, she will probably lose - most of her units are wounded and with extremely low morale. Also, bonuses are on the floor - only one warlord leading that battle.
And if she waits for Charlie's assistance the next day, which I expect she will, she'll have to face Wanda's Uberarmy, lead by an uncroaked Ansom, and bolstered by hundreds more of crushed units, while Charlie will have to deal with Stanley's timely return.
With his array of Ubermancers, Charlie and RedLord will have to retreat and wait for reinforcements (which will probably arrive - the death of a prince doesn't go unavenged), giving Parson time for some more elaborate strategies, raids and victories (RedLord is not as clever as Ansom I assume), victories which will finally win him Stanley's favor and trust.

That's my theory, anyway. I hope Bogroll is not burned in time and does regenerate. RIP.

[Dan Hales]

Here is what I see so far strategically.

On the attacker's side: Ansom is croaked, massive coalition casualties, significant leadership loss, probable loss of the coalition altogether. Jillian and Vinnie and setch still out there and formidible, Charlie still in the mix.

On the Defender's side: Good chance to recover the pliers on next turn, massive increase in troops/strength with addition of all un-croaked attackers, Charlie cannot get to the pliers this turn, probable return of Stanley with dwagons within the next turn, City all but ruined (unknown effect on income/defense), loss of Bogroll (sniff).

What will Parson do now????

Cannnot wait for the next installment. Well Done.

[Whispri]

Ding Dong the wannabe croaked. Shame about Bogroll though.

[dr pepper]

Apparently Ansom's death doesn't force an end turn. I wonder who has that authority now?

[MattR]

So much for Ansom's plot armour! awesome!

Also 'main' villian? im not so sure Ansom really was.. as has been pointed out several times he needed help to overcome the obstacles that Parson presented and those people are still out there. Vinny, Jillian and Charlie are still very much in the game and two of them are probably gonna be pissed and out for revenge.

[DoctorJest]

What about Sizemore? Maybe page 78 is Chekov's gun, but did he really just collapse all the tunnels with one huge honking spell?

Not exactly. Sizemore previously commented that the tunnels beneath Gobwin Knob were dug to extract gems to fill the treasury, and are quite extensive. However, the amount of tunnels meant that digging any more would make the city collapse. In fact, when Parson asked him if they could collapse tunnels defensively, Sizemore replied that perhaps they could, but there is a risk of the whole city coming down.

So the city was really already in a precarious seismic position. Given the previous discussions, it sounded like collapsing the whole city would have been easy to do even by accident, much less a master class dirtamancer intending to do exactly that.

[Solarious]

The Twoll leveled.
... Twice.

I don't know why, but that line made me laugh the most here. Bogroll, you'll be missed. Your sacrifice and dedication will be remembered as: YOU GOT BOGROLL'D!

There is no higher honor.

[Dacia Brabant]

There was a general comment about additional pages being included in the print version at some points.

However, I don't think this is likely to be an example. We already saw all the relevant action -- Bogroll showed up veiled to look like Parson, ambushed Ansom, knocked him off his carpet, and the two of them fell with Bogroll's hards on Ansom's throat. Really, what more is there to see other than the aftermath?

That's a good point, I'll buy that as far as the "action scene" part of it goes, there wouldn't be much need for panels of the fighty-fight beyond that. Still feels like it's missing something though, a moment for last words/thoughts/regrets maybe or a futile attempt at a save--something more than nothing.

[The Minx]

So much for Ansom's plot armour! awesome!

Also 'main' villian? im not so sure Ansom really was.. as has been pointed out several times he needed help to overcome the obstacles that Parson presented and those people are still out there. Vinny, Jillian and Charlie are still very much in the game and two of them are probably gonna be pissed and out for revenge.

I suggested in another thread that Charlie is Parson's opposite, since they are both behind the scenes chessboard kings. Stanley was Ansom's opposite.

Also, they're both misfits in this world and seemingly understand each other better than many of the other characters do.

[Onmi]

That's it for the RCC, they can't even pull out now.

Collapsing the city probably ended them all, see what happens when you kill Bogroll? you could have packed up and left but no.

I believe this is called winning the Battle and the War. Vinny and Jillian don't have enough forces to take down an entire city full of Uncroaked. they pretty much killed the entire RCC! The Archons are the only way out and chances are Charlie will screw them horribly.

When the Dwagons return they can muster their forces and capture the cities the RCC once held, rebuild their income and population, Spam a cheap effective unit who doesn't degrade in a turn.

The problem with forces BUILT around a Charismatic leader is that leader going down breaks the army.

It's like Ants, they are incredible for their size, however without a queen to order them they are mindless, like a single cell in the body with no brain to tell it what to do.

[Opal Tide]

Great strip!

I am with some of the previous posters, Ansom's gloryless and sudden demise is appropriate for a character who embodied Earth's pre-industrial view of war. Parson is the equivalent of the machine gun, forcing opponents to change tactics or be slaughtered by the legion. I think Ansom's demise and Parson's subsequent crippling of the city and RCC was pitch perfect with the rest of the story thus far.

I will also be interested to see Tool's reaction. On the one hand Ansom was crushed and the pliers were/may be acquired, but his last city is now nothing more than a glorified wine cellar. I think if he will, on the whole, be happy with the outcome (though he will probably scream a lot).

Some other random thoughts:

-If Sizemore felt terrible about wiping out Webinar, how horrible do folks think he feel now?
-I wonder how easily the pliers can be located and just how much of the RCC survived the devastation that sizemore laid down on it. I didn't see many units outside the walls in the last panel
-I know Charlie is probably the best military mind in Erfworld (just because of the way he can game the system and the other factions), but I have got to think even this would blow his mind.


Eagerly anticipating the next installment!

RIP Bogroll

[Hatu]

I'm sorry if I'm mistaken, but weren't you also crying foul when Ansom was repeatedly saved by the Archons?

That was really the only other possibility here. He either falls to the ground or the Archons swoop in and save him.

What outcome would you have preferred?

Well, for starters I'd have preferred if Ansom hadn't suddenly become stupid enough to accept a knave's surrender all alone, deep in enemy territory at the knave's own insistence, much less within arms reach of said knave. That would have helped.

Secondly, if Ansom's final demise was going to depend entirely on Charlie's forces suddenly wanting him dead after they had just saved his bacon for the second time in a row, I'd like to know why. I still have absolutely no idea why Charlie does what he does; when the plot hinges on his actions, the plot winds up feeling extremely contrived because his actions are incapable of growing naturally out of the story. We don't know anything about how Erfworld works mechanically, so we can't even properly weigh the possibilities Charlie is choosing between ourselves.

Thirdly, I'd prefer if Ansom's final defeat didn't just happen because it was suddenly time to wrap up the Ansom storyline. Why on earth did Parson wait until this point to pull this trick? Why didn't he pretend to surrender after Ansom turned the tables on Wanda and broke into the city? There doesn't seem to be any reason this wouldn't have worked just as well then, and it would have made defending the courtyard a lot easier if it had worked. If it hadn't worked then, Parson would be no worse off than if it hadn't worked now.

Finally, I think having Ansom die to a single attack and a long fall is both utterly incredible and pathetically anti-climactic. We just saw Wanda survive a long fall after an assault from an Archon army that could have captured the entire damn city (including Wanda). But now Ansom dies to a fall after an attack from a single unit. How am I supposed to take this as anything other than plot armor being selectively applied? The fact that half of his defeat was off-camera just makes it worse.

So I'm not particularly happy with this. I wanted Parson to prove his "Perfect Warlord" chops. Instead, he spends most of the story getting his ass kicked by his own stupidity and/or Ansom's booppull hijinks, only to finally win when the author randomly replaces Ansom's Luckamany Charms with stupid pills. This is a victory that makes both sides look like clueless puppets.

-H

[pendell]

There was no glorious battle, no desperate last stand. Ansom simply died. Without warning. Like any common soldier marching into battle. There's a clear message here: there aren't any heroes in a war - just people doing their damnest to win.

Not so.

Heroism is a matter of myth, not of fact.

Ansom died through treachery. Of such stories legends are made. Remember Captain Kirk? He couldn't be defeated fairly, so whoever-it-was killed him sneakily. Same with all the outlaw ballads I can recall. The protaganist is always betrayed , because he's just too damn awesome to lose in a fair fight.

War is one thing, but legends are another.

I imagine they'll make legends about Ansom, the way we Americans make legends about Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson. The fact that these romantic, dashing figures were eventually beaten by prosaic, unromantic realists is something that is only remembered in history books.

'Heroism' doesn't always have much to do with 'winning', as anyone who's listened to an Irish ballad knows.

For myself .. I still condemn Parson's treachery. But I acknowledge , nonetheless, that I'm glad pompous Ansom's plot shields finally failed. You can't roll natural 20s forever.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ovaltine Patrol]

I wonder how Gobwin Knob will be rebuilt. Do you think it will be represented with actual labor, as in gobwins and twolls running around with hammers and saws on scaffolding? Maybe it's going to be some kind of stylized computer RTS approach: spend the schmuckers and watch stuff drop out of the sky and into place.

[SeraphRainy]

Heh heh at least it wasnt a cliff hanger this time.

It saddens me greatly that Bogroll has died. He and sizemore have been my constant favorits and his croaking, while glorious, is the passing of a well liked character.

Yet I shall honor him in death as best I can. Just as Parson shall now crush the RCC making full use of Bogrolls final effort I intend to crush my enemies under the cry of BOOOOOGRROOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLED

That being said anybody know how we go about creating a fanclub on oots?

PS: I was wanting Ansomes death but I think Ill miss the ol capped crusader, it was cute in a pupy kinda way how trusting he was.

[valce]

That's it for the RCC, they can't even pull out now.

Collapsing the city probably ended them all, see what happens when you kill Bogroll? you could have packed up and left but no.

In an earlier strip Parson was told that collapsing the ruins wouldn't destroy an invading army, so probably the Coalition isn't wiped out. But they are severely weakened and leadership-deficient...

[Bhurin]

Booping hard core.

Ansom is as dead as the tropes we were all expecting to be utilize in his death. No last speech. No last agonizing breath. No inner monologue. No 'avenge me...'

An anti-climatic death is his ultimate defeat.

This is Ghengis Kahn falling off his horse.
This is Alexander the Great dying from getting sick.
This is Elvis on his toilet.

If Ansom is still alive, and the authors have an ulterior motive for this scene in mind, then good show.

But if this was Ansom's death, I applaud. Parson killed him, Earth-style.

Boop happens. And it just happened to Ansom.